Brawl+ Stage Legality Discussion: Brawl+ 7.0 Gold Discussion (Go Discuss Everything!)

[~tgm_Zeej]

I'm curious as to the point of two variants of the exact same stage in PS2 frozen and unfrozen.

The transformations in PSII are ridiculously campy, and on a more petty note, incredibly annoying.

I honestly don't see a point in attempting to save it in it's unfrozen state.


And on that petty note from earlier, PS2 on the SSS twice will just look really tacky.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I'm curious as to the point of two variants of the exact same stage in PS2 frozen and unfrozen.

The transformations in PSII are ridiculously campy, and on a more petty note, incredibly annoying.

I honestly don't see a point in attempting to save it in it's unfrozen state.


And on that petty note from earlier, PS2 on the SSS twice will just look really tacky.

pettiness aside, you do realize you would be holding r to choose the counterpick version, right?

 

[Shadic]

And on that petty note from earlier, PS2 on the SSS twice will just look really tacky.

So name one of the transformations differently. And we'll give it a new picture?

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

pettiness aside, you do realize you would be holding r to choose the counterpick version, right?

I actually did not. Though that raises a few more annoyances.

So name one of the transformations differently. And we'll give it a new picture?

That'd relieve the petty argument. But what about the actual point of my post? What can we really gain by having the same stage twice with transformations?

I'm all for liberal stage lists, but this is a bit ridiculous. Halberd and Delphino were considered too similar. This is literally the same stage 3 times if you count PS1.


I don't see anything the transformations in PS2 could add to a competitive environment.

 

[FrozenHobo]

yes, because PS1 and PS2 have exactly the same transformations. >_>

honestly there's nothing wrong with the ground and ice forms of the stage, and fixed electric and air wouldn't really make the stage imbalanced. you're not really giving legitimate reasons for your complaints. it seems like you're *****ing more because your afraid we'll remove the frozen one as a neutral. if we can keep it as a neutral but still have the option to use it as a CP then i'm not really sing the issue. we get 2 stages for the price of 1. most people would consider that a deal instead of a rip off.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

yes, because PS1 and PS2 have exactly the same transformations. >_>

honestly there's nothing wrong with the ground and ice forms of the stage, and fixed electric and air wouldn't really make the stage imbalanced. you're not really giving legitimate reasons for your complaints. it seems like you're *****ing more because your afraid we'll remove the frozen one as a neutral. if we can keep it as a neutral but still have the option to use it as a CP then i'm not really sing the issue. we get 2 stages for the price of 1. most people would consider that a deal instead of a rip off.

I honestly am not scared of losing it as a Neutral at all.

I'm just not seeing anything the ice and ground stages add. Though I suppose it is a bit hasty to write it off without giving it a fair chance.


Conceded for now.

 

[MK26]

boundary/walljumpability editing discussion goes here yall

 

[Deleted member]

I was thinking that wall jumps could be made more useful in B+. The reason they're not too amazing is b/c there's a low angle and a small distance from the wall jump.

This doesn't aid in recovering monumentally and doesn't add to the game offensively except in unneeded flashy combos.

Melee's wall jumps are faster, a higher angle, and send you farther from the wall when compared to Brawl.

Also, I'm not sure, but is there a period of lag which you cannot do anything after a wall jump?
Not the 64 frame b/w wall jumps though.

 

[BEES]

we do need faster walljumps at least

so here's a question: with the huge influx of neutral and counterpick custom stages we're about to get, should stage striking be modified?

I would think that just striking 2 stages would not be enough. That was a rule designed for Melee, and Brawl+ will have a lot more tourney-legal stages than Melee. I'm thinking 3 strikes or more.

 

[Deleted member]

we do need faster walljumps at least

so here's a question: with the huge influx of neutral and counterpick custom stages we're about to get, should stage striking be modified?

I would think that just striking 2 stages would not be enough. That was a rule designed for Melee, and Brawl+ will have a lot more tourney-legal stages than Melee. I'm thinking 3 strikes or more.

Depends. The metagame needs to be developed more to find out data on match ups in general as well as how good a character is. The new stages have to be tested with match ups in general.

The wall jump thing might be better suited for project M, but having better wall jumps in general would add depth to the game which isn't bad. Although they'd add something that's not really too important to the new set.

 

[BEES]

The wall jump thing might be better suited for project M, but having better wall jumps in general would add depth to the game which isn't bad. Although they'd add something that's not really too important to the new set.

I find it insulting that Project M gets to have nice things and Brawl+ does not.

Some of us want a deep game that isn't Melee, you know. Such things are easily possible.

 

[Deleted member]

I find it insulting that Project M gets to have nice things and Brawl+ does not.

Some of us want a deep game that isn't Melee, you know. Such things are easily possible.

Don't over generalize. Leads to nasty things like ignorant flame wars.

The B+ leaders are working on a nice set, and if this isn't included, I wouldn't blame them. Its an extra unnecessary and unconfirmed thing to add to the final set. It'd be nice sure, but we need the luxury of a stable set.

I was just spouting ideas. 1000 players and their mothers got to have a good idea amongst all the crap.

 

[sman5093]

whats a counterpick stage?

 

[FrozenHobo]

whats a counterpick stage?

i suggest you go read tourney rules before continuing any further.

 

[Rhubarbo]

I think Lylat cruise is more neutral than Wifi. Wifi has the whole sand bag mechanic going, and that drastically alters approaches. Lylat only has the titling mechanic, which is sporadic, not constant.

 

[GP&B]

Melee's wall jumps are faster, a higher angle, and send you farther from the wall when compared to Brawl.

Also, I'm not sure, but is there a period of lag which you cannot do anything after a wall jump?
Not the 64 frame b/w wall jumps though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5AkW5gD-CE
Go to about 0:40 in the video and there's a good example of some wall jumping.

From what it looks like, if there was any lag at all it would probably be in the same sense as the startup lag of a standard jump: very little.

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5AkW5gD-CE
Go to about 0:40 in the video and there's a good example of some wall jumping.

From what it looks like, if there was any lag at all it would probably be in the same sense as the startup lag of a standard jump: very little.

B+ wall jumps, not Melee's. Anyway, the idea is better suited for Project M because it's unnecessary to make the final version of B+ delayed w/ more coding and stuff.

 

[GaryCXJk]

You know, why always link back to Project M? The way I see it, B+ and Project M are two different projects with different set of goals. Brawl+'s goal is to make a more balanced gameplay for tournament play, so the decision of how to alter wall jumps and whether or not it should be altered should be based off this perception.

 

[SuperGuzzi]

I have a question:
if i do this with Green Hill Zone:
[collapse=click here:]

[/collapse]

it will be a counterpick?

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I REALLY want this to become the replacement for frozen PS2 (platforms are pretty much the same length and the main stage is only one small character's length longer), since I'd love a neutral with a Sonic theme as well as a fixed, un-frozen version of PS2, but the stupid ledges are stupid, since its the main thing that's standing in the way of this dream... ...stupid ledges...
(EDIT: If only there's a way to graphically get rid of those bulging ledges which would not only fix the ledges but also make it the same length as PS2...)

But aside from that, without the TV, it's just a PS2 with higher platforms. So it being a counterpick is almost pointless. And if the TV stays, then it has a permanent wall, which is also problematic.


Anyway, what's the verdict on making walls are aren't wall-jumpable to become wall-jumpable (if there is even a verdict, yet)? If anything, Yoshi's Island - Brawl needs that fix, since the vBrawl settings are horrid. (HERE's a post that I made in the Stage Hacking thread a while back with my opinions on certain stage, as well as .pac files with those changes, for those that care.)

 

[FrozenHobo]

it loses something without the box... not sure what we could do to make it unique from PS2, but it does need something. its a fantastic fix, but it needs something more.

 

[SuperGuzzi]

it loses something without the box... not sure what we could do to make it unique from PS2, but it does need something. its a fantastic fix, but it needs something more.

well i can do the box breakable, but is a problem, because, i need to paste to the breakeble curve , the model from main stage a delete all the polygons exept the two polygons for box

 

[FrozenHobo]

a breakable box would be nice, but we need to be sure that it won't cause people to be launched into the air when the hurt boxes return.

 

[SuperGuzzi]

it loses something without the box... not sure what we could do to make it unique from PS2, but it does need something. its a fantastic fix, but it needs something more.

i can add this too:

 

[FrozenHobo]

k. how would it be used?

 

[SuperGuzzi]

well, i know how to move it and put in work, but my problem is how to put a colision with move

 

[FrozenHobo]

but would it be a 3rd platform that would sway from side to side? i want to know what function it would serve.

 

[SuperGuzzi]

but would it be a 3rd platform that would sway from side to side? i want to know what function it would serve.

add this is a problem

and, i have problem, there are only 3 platform in the stage, i'm using 2 of thmen, and the 3erd, loss a part of it, because, when i deleted with hex, the sonic box, it deleted the aprt of thar platform too what i can do now?
what about a paltform in the midle, an another moving form side to side?

Edit:if it need something more, i can add rings, flowers, spikes, more flowers and trees

and what is you opinion for this:

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Strange and out-of-place. I'm against these kinds of fixes, especially for Eldin.

And shouldn't this discussion be in the Stage Hacking thread and not this one?

 

[dealth0072]

I'd love Corneria to be a CP...maybe you guys could make it work somehow...?
Anything to make it legal. Changing the properties of the infinite grab peoples or maybe editing the stages angle just slightly so it allows escape without being able to notice any difference.

 

[Big Burn]

i think that eldin looks pretty sweet

 

[MK26]

bump

discuss neutrals gogogo

also, i like mlg's list and think we should base brawl+'s list off that
do you people like mlg's list

 

[FrozenHobo]

no. nonononono... noooo.

actually what we were doing yesterday seemed to work pretty well:

Stage Strike:
BF
FD
RF+
PS2
WW
SV
Lylat (iirc)


i know the wbr was tossing around FD, BF, SV, PS2, and one other as neutrals which seemed to be well received. either way, we still don't have a good CP list yet. perhaps we should discuss the delphino v halberd discussions again.

a good stage list is going to makes sure tourneys are interesting/go well.

 

[Veril]

The starters are: Final D, Battlefield, Warioware, PSII, and Smashville. I want to stress that all of these stages have had their boundaries adjusted with their viability as starters in mind!

KO off the side (from center) ordered from earliest to latest:
1. Warioware
2. Smashville
3. Battlefield
4. PSII (only slightly greater than BF)
5. Final Destination

KO% off the top:
1. Warioware
2. Final D = Smashville: only slightly higher than Warioware
3. Battlefield:
4. PSII: notably higher than the others, though lower than in 6.0. Its ceiling is comparable to the 6.0 ceiling on Final D.


I also adjusted boundaries on: Lylat Cruise, Skyworld, Luigi's Mansion, Pictochat, and Yoshi's Island. I endorse ALL of these stages as counterpick... although skyworld+ may need work making the bottom platform non-hittable.


EDIT: Picto+ is amazing. Pictochat + hacks + new boundaries = my new favorite stage.

 

[JCaesar]

If RF+ is as good as I keep hearing, I think it could be a better 5th starter than Warioware.

 

[RPGsFTW]

If RF+ is as good as I keep hearing, I think it could be a better 5th starter than Warioware.

^This. WarioWare does a **** good job of pissing off the people I play with. They all think that it fits better as a counterpick. It's hard to say though, because they really don't enjoy it at all though, and I don't like it much either.

RF+ however looks delicious and very neutral-esque to me.

 

[VietGeek]

RF+ has comparatively smaller horizontal boundaries than WarioWare but higher ceiling. Of course the main trade-off here is that RF+ has more running room whereas WarioWare does not.

EDIT: *Invalid comment since latest patch on Rumble Falls+*

 

[GHNeko]

Jungle Japes+ is awesome.

 

[Veril]

If RF+ is as good as I keep hearing, I think it could be a better 5th starter than Warioware.

Warioware is specifically designed to fit within the framework of the starters (FD, BF, PS2, SV, WW) in regards to its boundaries. If any stages were to be added to the starter list they would be Yoshi's and Picto+, NOT RF+.

Especially if you mean RF+ before the most recent boundary adjustments.

 

[JCaesar]

I have no idea, I haven't gotten a chance to play RF+ yet. Boundaries aside, it just seems like it has a really nice platform layout. Warioware ... not so much.