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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
Dart!
Smash Master
marth is lighter *or is it heavier?* so he can tech shines in the pal version. his dair is meteor-cancelable in the pal version. thats all i remember...maybe his tipper was changed too? or that was just brawl XD
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
I didn't know if this was known but.
You can make marth fall down from the shine in ntsc somehow too.
A friend like a year or so back fell down two times in a row from foxes shine.
You can make marth fall down from the shine in ntsc somehow too.
A friend like a year or so back fell down two times in a row from foxes shine.
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
I think this is a basic question, but
How are you suppose to DI fox's shine? Like say at 0% you get nair'ed to shine....
Also, what about a shine when you are near the edge? Are you suppose to DI down or towards the center of the stage so that you grab the edge instead of being sent off and having to dj(a.k.a. get shine spiked.)
How are you suppose to DI fox's shine? Like say at 0% you get nair'ed to shine....
Also, what about a shine when you are near the edge? Are you suppose to DI down or towards the center of the stage so that you grab the edge instead of being sent off and having to dj(a.k.a. get shine spiked.)
Aesir
Smash Master
Take your time, learn the fundamentals of the game. Don't worry so much about being fast as much as landing hits and being effective. Speed will come as you feel more comfortable.
I think it only happens when you get shined while you're charging a smash.
Fortress | Sveet
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try this with your friend: have marth charge a fsmash and while its charging have fox shine him. he will fall down every time.
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
yes, up for more combos.
Niko45
Smash Master
Yes, up for comboing til you can't kill them.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
SH double non-tipped fair -> tipper fsmash is amazing.
Nø Ca$h
Smash Champion
ntsc best marth-mew2king
PAL best marth-Amsah
ChaosNoobSlayer
Smash Cadet
Thanks guys =P
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
strawhat deahan
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
"I think this is a basic question, but
How are you suppose to DI fox's shine? Like say at 0% you get nair'ed to shine....does DI'ing away even do anything?
Also, what about a shine when you are near the edge? Are you suppose to DI down or towards the center of the stage so that you grab the edge instead of being sent off and having to dj(a.k.a. get shine spiked.)"
How are you suppose to DI fox's shine? Like say at 0% you get nair'ed to shine....does DI'ing away even do anything?
Also, what about a shine when you are near the edge? Are you suppose to DI down or towards the center of the stage so that you grab the edge instead of being sent off and having to dj(a.k.a. get shine spiked.)"
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
DI away and forward always will change where you go after the shine. Fox can still reach you but it makes it harder. Personal preference but I usually try to DI away and just CC shieldgrab during the shine in case they are too slow or do something stupid and let me grab them.
If your shined near the edge you can fastfall (like doing a wavedash off fastfall ledgegrab) to regrab the ledge rather than falling past the ledge.
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
thank you very much. it's really annoying getting shine spiked all over the place. Like if I'm off the stage and try double jumping to grab it, my neighbor just runs off and shine spikes me.
If I let myself fall and delay my jump he just fastfalls and catches up to me....
Sheik question:
Is it possible to hit sheik after she vanishes from her up-b before she grabs the edge?
Fortress | Sveet
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Yes if she doesn't do the down angled sweetspot.
Dart!
Smash Master
Translation: Basically you can't if they're good and don't **** up
Fortress | Sveet
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^ precisely
Niko45
Smash Master
Sheik vs Marth blows
Niko45
Smash Master
Seriously animal, who back throws? You scared me with that ****.
otg
Smash Master
animal you're still a *****.
Nø Ca$h
Smash Champion
sh fair>crossup>bair shieldpokes falco. if they tilt their shield down then uair instead of bair.
****
it might work on fox too but i havent tested it
but are they able to shine OoS before bair/uair comes out or some other OoS shennanigans?
****
it might work on fox too but i havent tested it
but are they able to shine OoS before bair/uair comes out or some other OoS shennanigans?
Jun.
Smash Lord
just dropping by to say Ftilt is f'in amazing
good knockback, comes out fast, safe on (most?) shields, good edguarder, can be done out of a fthrow.
Started spamming it recently against linear approaches (falcon/sheik) and was very effectively and shutting down their initial approach.
good knockback, comes out fast, safe on (most?) shields, good edguarder, can be done out of a fthrow.
Started spamming it recently against linear approaches (falcon/sheik) and was very effectively and shutting down their initial approach.
Winston
Smash Master
if by crossup you mean you go through their shield, they can do like anything they want oos between the two aerials. shine OoS would be particularly easy
ftilt isn't safe on like anybody's shield. Pretty much anybody can wavedash out -> punish it.
spamming it against falcon is a pretty bad idea considering it's super laggy and falcon has the ability to kill you if he hits you... ftilt has uses but it's not that great a move.
Jun.
Smash Lord
with the shield lag and proper spacing I believe marth can either jab after it or sideB if they try to wavedash out of it.
I'm using the term "spam" very gently. Spamming anything is probably more or less a bad idea.
Against falcon, falcons will approach you with a dash or a short hopped aerial both of which ftilt shuts down. Dtilt might shut off his dashed approach but ftilt's hitbox is high enough where it covers both approaches.
I tried it, it worked. Try it.
I'm using the term "spam" very gently. Spamming anything is probably more or less a bad idea.
Against falcon, falcons will approach you with a dash or a short hopped aerial both of which ftilt shuts down. Dtilt might shut off his dashed approach but ftilt's hitbox is high enough where it covers both approaches.
I tried it, it worked. Try it.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
It works fine, but Falcon's DD is too fast to reliably ftilt and not expect to get punished for it. Especially since a common bait approach for Falcon is running up and shielding which stops a lot of wall spam that Marth does to stop Falcon from shffling into him.
Ftilt isn't that safe on shields, his jab and sideB aren't as fast as most of the cast's spam moves.
I almost find that it's much worse against Sheik/Falcon because their grab games punish Marth pretty hard. Ftilt is just like a Fsmash to them since they have pretty fast wavedash/DD games.
It can work but I'm pretty sure it's not safe on block, but it is better than Fsmash in a lot of situations where too many still think Fsmash is the way to go (it does recover faster).
Dtilt ironically is safe on shield on even Sheik if you hold away to turn your hurtbox around after the dtilt hits during the IASA frames. Unless your head is actually touching Sheik during the dtilt then there is a small window for the grab. This was tested by my friend Zoso in AR.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I gotta say Arc, I was watching some **** from Intimikil 2l and I love your pivot Fsmashes. Soooo kewt lol.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
1. When you use fairs against samus, should you usually be retreating backwards? I find that alot of times, even when I tip fairs, she can cc-dsmash them if i'm moving forward or not at all.
2. What's the most effective method of locking out Marth's approach in dittos? Fsmashing/ftilting, retreating attacks, crouch canceling, or something else?
Also, what counters Marth's dtilt in that matchup? Can you just run in and grab in-between d-tilts or do you have to go over/around it?
2. What's the most effective method of locking out Marth's approach in dittos? Fsmashing/ftilting, retreating attacks, crouch canceling, or something else?
Also, what counters Marth's dtilt in that matchup? Can you just run in and grab in-between d-tilts or do you have to go over/around it?
Jun.
Smash Lord
2. In my non professional experience, getting bullied by another marth to go near the edge is bad news so I wouldn't retreat in anyway. I'm sure you've had experiences where you were pushed to the edge of the stage then fthrow fsmashed or just somehow tipped at a very low percentage to end your stock. Instead of stopping his approach, wait for the opponent to throw out an empty aerial too close to you in which you can run in and grab or throw out an aerial of your own. My experience is that dashdancing > empty aerials
Dtilts - I heard from somewhere, probably jkun who heard from cactuar that you can just CC the dtilt and dtilt them back once or twice. That's if you're fast enough to react at lower percentages. I would probably just dtilt or ftilt back. Or just not approach until he stops. Challenging marth's wall and trying to get past him is a dangerous game.
btw arc you have the scariest bairs of all time
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
I use the forward tilt against a fox or falco starting an up-b above the stage. If he goes for the edge, ftilt gets them because the hitbox starts at Marth's feet(unlike the forward smash). It also covers me if they go straight horizontal at me. and it hits slightly above me too.
If they up-b over the ftilt, it's not as laggy a move as the fsmash so I can follow up.
Does Marth's bair hitbox even come out if done after a SH fair?
"2. What's the most effective method of locking out Marth's approach in dittos? Fsmashing/ftilting, retreating attacks, crouch canceling, or something else? "
^THIS
Also, what's your guys preferences for options against Doc's pills? when he's approaching and also when he's trying to cover his recovery?
If they up-b over the ftilt, it's not as laggy a move as the fsmash so I can follow up.
Does Marth's bair hitbox even come out if done after a SH fair?
"2. What's the most effective method of locking out Marth's approach in dittos? Fsmashing/ftilting, retreating attacks, crouch canceling, or something else? "
^THIS
Also, what's your guys preferences for options against Doc's pills? when he's approaching and also when he's trying to cover his recovery?
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
If it's a rising fair then you can just double jump away before you get low enough to be hit by d-smash. If it's a shffl'd fair, you just won't get out of d-smash range and have to do the fair as low as possible so that you can shield before Samus can D-smash. If it's just some fair somewhere in the middle, you have to be retreating before you do the fair.
Pretty much everything you said is a viable option really. Marth's ground game outranges his air game.
That one's a little tougher. If you think they're going to do another attack after the d-tilt you can grab or SH fair OoS, but other than that it's just a very safe move. There's no set solution for beating it on reaction, but if you think they're going to run up and f-tilt you can
1. Grab before they do it (they'll extend themselves into the grab).
2. F-smash/f-tilt as they get in range.
3. Dash away.
4. Jump over it and fair.
All of which have their pros and cons
F-tilt is like Marth's most underrated move.
Well, for approaching behind pills I usually go with nair. Sometimes you can get away with silly stuff like counter too.
For recovering, it's just a matter of timing ledge invincibility, or going out to preemptively fair the pills so that they don't ruin the edgeguard when Doc gets close enough to grab the ledge.
But I'm not that good against Doc. Try to think of other strats to add on to this.
Niko45
Smash Master
You can handle pills in a ton of ways. You can use OOS options like you would against a falco's lasers, which is really easy since doc's approach is much more telegraphed than falco's. You can jab the pill and DD grab/dtilt/whatever. If the spacing works out and doc is right behind the pill, you can just fair the pill and doc all in one shot since fair goes through pills.
For pills on return doc will almost always try to pill from the angle where the pill will hit you if you hang on the ledge. Often times he'll need to double jump to achieve the height for this position and if you see it you can jump out and bair the spot in anticipation. Time your invincibility well so that the pill falls past you or you can bair doc with invincibility to swipe him and the pill at the same time.
For pills on return doc will almost always try to pill from the angle where the pill will hit you if you hang on the ledge. Often times he'll need to double jump to achieve the height for this position and if you see it you can jump out and bair the spot in anticipation. Time your invincibility well so that the pill falls past you or you can bair doc with invincibility to swipe him and the pill at the same time.
Jun.
Smash Lord
smother the doctor
we have speed and range on him
don't take his pills =]
we have speed and range on him
don't take his pills =]
Aesir
Smash Master
Ftilt ***** fox and falcos side B.
basically assume they'll side b and prepare to ftilt them, and just react to the up-b.
and arc does that **** really work? because I gave up on dtilting because spawn would punish that **** all day.
basically assume they'll side b and prepare to ftilt them, and just react to the up-b.
and arc does that **** really work? because I gave up on dtilting because spawn would punish that **** all day.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Zoso said he was doing it a lot to Spawn after he found that out. If you have AR and look at the hurtbox of Marth if you turn around after dtilting it's amazing how fast it switches directions.
It looks silly but you can basically dtilt (hold away to turn around) Sheik shieldgrabs as you turn around and it misses, turn back around grab. The turn around is important.
AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
daaaang arc, I just watched some vids of you.
How'd you get that pivot fsmash so consistent?? It's like a 1 frame window!
Teach me, please? (Assuming there's a different practice/training method you used other than sit in front of your gamecube and randomly practice the timing of hitting that c-stick in between dash dances)
Also, besides dtilt, I like doing reverse uptilts after shffling into someone's shield. Marth leans forward(which is away if I do it with my back towards them) and hits them with the back of his uptilt, popping them up when they try to shield grab.
How'd you get that pivot fsmash so consistent?? It's like a 1 frame window!
Teach me, please? (Assuming there's a different practice/training method you used other than sit in front of your gamecube and randomly practice the timing of hitting that c-stick in between dash dances)
Also, besides dtilt, I like doing reverse uptilts after shffling into someone's shield. Marth leans forward(which is away if I do it with my back towards them) and hits them with the back of his uptilt, popping them up when they try to shield grab.