Category Character Tier Lists

[The Star King]

Shield-grabbing with Yoshi, that's a good one

 

[th3kuzinator]

over 100%, I sometimes just use the weak get up move and then just grab straight away (assuming they are chargin from the front and not above).

I do it with yoshi only because that second that yoshi gets up and goes into his shield grab animation is the instance where attackers usually like to hit him. Sometimes yoshi is able to parry this and get an easy grab off.

 

[dandan]

Shield-grabbing with Yoshi, that's a good one

isn't parry grab sort of a shield grab

 

[The Star King]

isn't parry grab sort of a shield grab

Well, we were talking about getting pushed off when shielding and nairing because you tried to shield-grab. You don't get pushed back when you parry so it doesn't count

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Yes, a tip is to wait 5-9 frames or so before shield grab, if you're not sure if you're gonna be pushed off or not.

 

[Sempiternity]

Yes, a tip is to wait 5-9 frames or so before shield grab, if you're not sure if you're gonna be pushed off or not.

Yes, because we all count frames in our heads and have perfect reaction times.



It's like counting cards at a casino!

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Yes, because we all count frames in our heads and have perfect reaction times.



It's like counting cards at a casino!

If you play at least a single match with 5-9 frames delay, you should have an idea of the time it is and wait for it during a match.

Spoiler

I'm speaking from my skills

And counting cards in a casino... it's harder, but still doable.

 

[ballin4life]

Counting cards in a casino is way easier than consistently counting 5-9 frames. The basic systems are easy, it's just a matter of practicing.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Yeah! practice is what makes everything better...
I meant, or wanted to mean was... you don't have to count those exact frames, just have the notion of the time it's been...
when you see a the time in a clock, you don't see it again 1 minute later, you just have the notion of the time it's been since the last time you watched it.
If the frames part is bothering anyone, then just wait a little bit before trying to shield grab, or just shield jump thinking of an aerial, it's a LOT safer and a better idea.
anyway that's just my opinion.

 

[Sempiternity]

Yeah, I know what you mean; I was just messing with you! But when you think about it, 10 frames is a sixth of a second, and that is really fast.

I find it fascinating that people can react that quickly in a game (z-cancelling is 15 frames, I believe). And isn't Melee only 6-7 frames? That's nuts.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Lol semp.

Its 20 frames in both games.

Only difference is that you cannot mash the L button in melee. If you miss time an lcancel, you have 20 frames of cooldown. In 64, you can just keep pressing the z button as fast you can and you will still zcancel (though you might shield after the move which will screw you up).

That and the lcancel does not even remove all the aerial landing lag. It removes a huge chunk of it, but not all (like in 64).

Where did you get 6-7 frames?

 

[DMoogle]

Also, it's not reaction time, it's precision timing. You already know when to z-cancel.

 

[The Star King]

That and the lcancel does not even remove all the aerial landing lag. It removes a huge chunk of it, but not all (like in 64).

Melee removes half of the lag (rounded down), while Smash 64 gives the landing lag you would have if you landed on the ground without doing an aerial.

 

[Sempiternity]

Lol semp.

Its 20 frames in both games.

Only difference is that you cannot mash the L button in melee. If you miss time an lcancel, you have 20 frames of cooldown. In 64, you can just keep pressing the z button as fast you can and you will still zcancel (though you might shield after the move which will screw you up).

That and the lcancel does not even remove all the aerial landing lag. It removes a huge chunk of it, but not all (like in 64).

Where did you get 6-7 frames?

Wait, you're right, it is 20 frames for 64; I don't know where I got 15 from!

Melee, however...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749

L-Canceling (LC): This is a tactic to reduce the recovery time of air attacks. Right before you hit the ground, if you're in the middle of an air attack, press L (or R, or even Z) to decrease the recovery time. There are 7 frames during which an attack can be L-canceled. You must press L/R/Z in the 6 frames before hitting the ground or the very frame during which your character hits the ground. The result is that the lag of the air attack will be cut in half. Practice with Link’s Dair or Bowser’s Bair to see the full effects.

?

And DMoogle, you're right, now that I think about it. I guess I'm just amazing that a game can be successfully played and executed with the precision timing that Smash requires.