• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Character Competitive Impressions

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Sky is falling.
Good thing I main Falco... Oh wait, he's an anthropomorphic pheasant who has a Landmaster for his Final Smash. BRB, going to prepare my funeral arrangements. :p

So, having watched J. Miller's matches and Boss's matches, is it that risky to edgeguard Luigi? Diddy seemed to have an issue with that - Leffen didn't follow J. Miller off stage, but cyve did -, but Nairo did fine with (Dark) Pit - sorry, I forgot which he used - and cyve did fine with Sheik.
 

HeavyLobster

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
2,074
NNID
HeavyLobster43
Sky is falling.
Agree completely. I could realistically see someone winning a national with Mario or Luigi, who are around 10-15th best in the game, which is not something you could say in any other canon Smash. People are switching to Diddy not because it's an absolute must to pick him to win, but because he's safer and easier to win with. The viability gap between Diddy and Sheik is also less than the gap between the spacies and the other top tiers, it's just that anyone can pick up Diddy and win, while the same can't be said for Sheik.
 

Neoleo21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
191
Agree completely. I could realistically see someone winning a national with Mario or Luigi, who are around 10-15th best in the game, which is not something you could say in any other canon Smash. People are switching to Diddy not because it's an absolute must to pick him to win, but because he's safer and easier to win with. The viability gap between Diddy and Sheik is also less than the gap between the spacies and the other top tiers, it's just that anyone can pick up Diddy and win, while the same can't be said for Sheik.
That same gap gets even smaller with customs, though its still ridiculous that players who want to use another character have to play so lame and hard against Diddy's comparatively easy shenanigans, which worries me that players will just get sick of it and leave the game.
 

dragontamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
514
NNID
dragontamer5788
Diddy's comparatively easy shenanigans, which worries me that players will just get sick of it and leave the game.


This game was played competitively for like... 10 years. Hyper Viper Beam was so spammy and easy to do... get that Tiger Knee Hyper Viper Beam combo down and watch opponents melt. Air version had Instant startup, comboed into itself and KOed opponents from full health off of extraordinarily easy hitconfirms in real battles, and chip-kills opponents who are blocking... while being perfectly safe on block.

First: "easy mode shenanigans" doesn't really deter a competitive community from having fun. And second, Smash4 is a lot more balanced than MvC2 ever was.
 
Last edited:

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
6,473
Location
San Antonio, Texas
NNID
HeroineYaoki
3DS FC
2191-8960-7738
So, having watched J. Miller's matches and Boss's matches, is it that risky to edgeguard Luigi? Diddy seemed to have an issue with that - Leffen didn't follow J. Miller off stage, but cyve did -, but Nairo did fine with (Dark) Pit - sorry, I forgot which he used - and cyve did fine with Sheik.
Normally, Luigi is not a danger to edgeguard. It's when he can use Jumpless Cyclone that things start to get somewhat dicey because the move is capable of gimping you. So far, I've only seen Boss and Mr. ConCon capable of doing this.

Even with Jumpless Cyclone though, all that it takes to bop Luigi off-stage is continuously knocking him back until he runs out of horizontal mobility. This is why you'll always see Luigi either recover extremely low or extremely high and barely in between to avoid this, since a large majority of characters can't go that deep without putting themselves at risk.
 

mimgrim

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
9,233
Location
Somewhere magical
This game still allows to change your taunt commands to other inputs right? I can't remember off the top of my head. BUT, moves that require mashing become pretty trivial if you switch all taunt inputs to the "Special" command. I wouldn't be surprised if that is what those 2 players do.
 

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
6,473
Location
San Antonio, Texas
NNID
HeroineYaoki
3DS FC
2191-8960-7738
Boss and Mr.ConCon definitely hyper-mash the B button. Boss has been doing it since Melee (where you can't change control schemes), and Mr.ConCon showcased it on stream.
 

Neoleo21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
191
I'm done with diddy. What are the thoughts on Custom Falco? I think he's way more enjoyable with customs on.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Normally, Luigi is not a danger to edgeguard. It's when he can use Jumpless Cyclone that things start to get somewhat dicey because the move is capable of gimping you. So far, I've only seen Boss and Mr. ConCon capable of doing this.

Even with Jumpless Cyclone though, all that it takes to bop Luigi off-stage is continuously knocking him back until he runs out of horizontal mobility. This is why you'll always see Luigi either recover extremely low or extremely high and barely in between to avoid this, since a large majority of characters can't go that deep without putting themselves at risk.
Jigglypuff, Kirby, Meta Knight, Falco, (Dark) Pit, another Luigi?, Lucario, Shulk - the Monado's range alone would work -, the Villager, Zelda? - Farore's Wind travels well, but she's sluggish in the air and on the ground -, Peach - horizontally, only though -, Pikachu, Rosalina? - I know Luma can be sent out as an obstacle -, and Wii Fit Trainer comes to mind as characters who can go in deep. Robin's Elwind could gimp Luigi since it meteors, but that's if Robin can get Luigi off stage. Duck Hunt's could wall off Luigi from coming back on the stage.
 
Last edited:

mimgrim

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
9,233
Location
Somewhere magical
Jigglypuff, Kirby, Meta Knight, Falco, (Dark) Pit, another Luigi?, Lucario, Shulk - the Monado's range alone would work -, the Villager, Zelda? - Farore's Wind travels well, but she's sluggish in the air and on the ground -, Peach - horizontally, only though -, Pikachu, Rosalina? - I know Luma can be sent out as an obstacle -, and Wii Fit Trainer comes to mind as characters who can go in deep. Robin's Elwind could gimp Luigi since it meteors, but that's if Robin can get Luigi off stage. Duck Hunt's could wall off Luigi from coming back on the stage.
Mii Gunner doesn't even have to leave the stage to edge-guard deep (presuming they are allowed their customization). ;)
 
Last edited:

Antonykun

Hero of Many Faces
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
6,727
3DS FC
1049-0472-0051
Jigglypuff, Kirby, Meta Knight, Falco, (Dark) Pit, another Luigi?, Lucario, Shulk - the Monado's range alone would work -, the Villager, Zelda? - Farore's Wind travels well, but she's sluggish in the air and on the ground -, Peach - horizontally, only though -, Pikachu, Rosalina? - I know Luma can be sent out as an obstacle -, and Wii Fit Trainer comes to mind as characters who can go in deep. Robin's Elwind could gimp Luigi since it meteors, but that's if Robin can get Luigi off stage. Duck Hunt's could wall off Luigi from coming back on the stage.
Going deep is Villager's bread and butter. Villager is practically synonymous with Splelunker
 

dragontamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
514
NNID
dragontamer5788
Even with Jumpless Cyclone though, all that it takes to bop Luigi off-stage is continuously knocking him back until he runs out of horizontal mobility. This is why you'll always see Luigi either recover extremely low or extremely high and barely in between to avoid this, since a large majority of characters can't go that deep without putting themselves at risk.
I haven't heard of the term "Jumpless Cyclone" yet. Is this when Luigi uses double-jump and immediately uses Down-B to rise up from a very low recovery?
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
I haven't heard of the term "Jumpless Cyclone" yet. Is this when Luigi uses double-jump and immediately uses Down-B to rise up from a very low recovery?
It's using downB to rise without using your double jump with absurd mashing.
 

Saturn_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
217
Location
Texas
NNID
Saturn.1000
Good thing I main Falco... Oh wait, he's an anthropomorphic pheasant who has a Landmaster for his Final Smash. BRB, going to prepare my funeral arrangements. :p

So, having watched J. Miller's matches and Boss's matches, is it that risky to edgeguard Luigi? Diddy seemed to have an issue with that - Leffen didn't follow J. Miller off stage, but cyve did -, but Nairo did fine with (Dark) Pit - sorry, I forgot which he used - and cyve did fine with Sheik.
J.Miller knocked various Diddy's, including Leffen's, out of their up-b recovery simply by brushing them with one of the many hitboxes in his Tornado. I'd always had a sneaking suspicion Diddy wasn't quite as good as people said, but seeing that convinced me.
 

ILOVESMASH

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
590
NNID
Marioman123450
3DS FC
3368-1022-7382
I'm done with diddy. What are the thoughts on Custom Falco? I think he's way more enjoyable with customs on.
I would say he's a lot better. Burst blaster has a lot less lag than normal blaster, making it a safer move to use at a distance while distant Fire Bird has exceptional recovery and makes falco's great offstage game even better.
 
Last edited:

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
6,473
Location
San Antonio, Texas
NNID
HeroineYaoki
3DS FC
2191-8960-7738
Jigglypuff, Kirby, Meta Knight, Falco, (Dark) Pit, another Luigi?, Lucario, Shulk - the Monado's range alone would work -, the Villager, Zelda? - Farore's Wind travels well, but she's sluggish in the air and on the ground -, Peach - horizontally, only though -, Pikachu, Rosalina? - I know Luma can be sent out as an obstacle -, and Wii Fit Trainer comes to mind as characters who can go in deep. Robin's Elwind could gimp Luigi since it meteors, but that's if Robin can get Luigi off stage. Duck Hunt's could wall off Luigi from coming back on the stage.
I wouldn't count Zelda's FW, though Din's Fire though is definitely capable of edgeguarding Luigi. Rosalina can bop Luigi with D-air, even when he's using Jumpless Cyclone. Not sure on Peach except maybe turnips if Luigi goes low. Sonic can too, and in some situations so can Mario. Jigglypuff and Metaknight are probably the best characters at edgeguarding Luigi.

Luigi's recovery, despite it's great distance, is definitely vulnerable, so I can see where that list is coming from. Luigi's strength is his excellent CQC on stage.
 
Last edited:

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
I'm done with diddy. What are the thoughts on Custom Falco? I think he's way more enjoyable with customs on.
I don't have any of Falco's customs aside from his Burst Blaster, so everything else is based on observation. I don't think Burst Blaster's that worth it since it takes away from the hitstun of his default Blaster which can be used to gimp someone's recovery if it hits them while they're jumping and it's decent as an interrupter. Sure, you can rack up damage with Burst Blaster - it does 2% up close and 1% farther out -, but Falco's too slow to get away with the (shorter) end lag; Fox can get off a few shots and run. Explosive Blaster is interesting, but I don't know how you would use it aside from possibly edge-guarding with it and/or interrupting someone's momentum since it pushes people back. The end lag is a concern since if Falco misses, then he's a sitting pheasant. So, of the three, I'd pick between default Blaster and Explosive Blaster for uses while Burst Blaster's just there for rapid fire ***** and giggles.

Falco Phantasm is great as it is since it allows Falco to cover distance, meteor with a good read, and deal some damage. The only issue is that it lacks a hitbox for about half, a third, or a quarter of the distance it travels and I have no idea why. Falco Charge isn't worth it in my opinion since Side Smash can do what it does and the loss in distance and start up just destroys an option for Falco to approach, close the distance, and recover fast. Falco Phase is an interesting move since it is basically an I-frame dash or a giant roll. Like Falco Phantasm and Fox Illusion, it has less end lag if you short hop it and land. Falco Phantasm and Phase are basically play style choice. Do you want damage and another meteor or do you want an I-frame dash allowing Falco to just dash through attacks?

Fire Bird is Fire Bird. Nothing special. Fast Fire Bird essentially turns Fire Bird into Falco Phantasm. The only issue is that it covers less distance meaning Falco can't go as deep vertically off stage, but it means that Falco is less prone to being gimped off-stage. Distant Fire Bird is a bit slower than Fire Bird and travels much further allowing Falco to go even deeper off-stage vertically. All right, if Falco can get someone that deep off-stage, then there's little for him to be gimped, but it's still like Fire Bird which means if he's the one off-stage and the opponent is on-stage, he has a higher chance of being gimped. They're all good, so it's more of a play-style choice as well. Do you stick with what's tried and true, want a faster, but shorter traveling Fire Bird, or do you want a slower and longer traveling Fire Bird?

Reflector is great for what it is. Accele-Reflector speeds up projectiles meaning it could make a full Charge Shot inescapable, but I think it has less active frames since it doesn't reflect when it comes back to Falco. It's also slower; it comes out at frame 9 instead of frame 5 like the default Reflector. For reference, his Ftilt comes out faster at frame 6 and Up Smash comes out at frame 8. So, for spacing purposes, it might not be as safe as the default Reflector. Void Reflector on the other hand, turns Reflector into a kill tool. At center stage and on Mario, it kills at 250%. Now, let's take Falco to the air and near the blast zone. Yeah, that's awesome. Sure, it comes out at frame 13, but Fair comes out at frame 12 and has less range since Falco has to get in closer. Same thing with Uair which comes out at frame 10 and Falco should be underneath or Bair at frame 4. This is basically like a weaker Side Smash in the air. Reflector-wise, Void Reflector just voids energy projectiles and reflects physical ones. Personally, I'd take either the default Reflector or Void Reflector.

So, Falco doesn't "improve" in that sense of Ike or Ganondorf gaining better moves to cover stuff, but rather, they change up his play style in subtle, but dangerous ways. A Reflector that kills or one that makes Link's Arrows travel faster than a blink of an eye, an I-frame dash or a bait and punish dash, a flaming Falco Phantasm or an amazing recovery, or a damage racking Blaster or a strange Blaster that could throw off your game.

Eh, that's my 2 cents on Falco's customs. I never unlocked/used them aside from Burst Blaster, so I can only give impressions on them. Anyway, I'm wondering about Fox's now, especially Wolf Flash since it has the same no helpless mode after using it.
 
Last edited:

Kofu

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
4,609
Location
The caffeine-free state
NNID
Atoyont
3DS FC
1521-4492-7542
Game & Watch can also gimp Luigi pretty well. Fire allows him to go surprisingly deep/high, and his disjoints just laugh at Luigi. /late
 

DavemanCozy

Smash Photographer
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
1,716
Location
London, ON
NNID
CavemanCossy
3DS FC
0216-1810-7681
Poke from Canada also mashes B with Luigi's Cyclone.

Changing the D-pad to specials would be another way I can see working as long as you're still able to control your movement without your controller falling off your hands.
 

Conda

aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
2,185
Location
Toronto
Greninja definitely has shortcomings. Not having a quick and lingering nair really hurts him utilize tactics that speedsters usually rely on.
 
Last edited:

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
14,009
Location
The land that never Snows
NNID
SinisterSlush
Kinda wished I played Greninja before he was nerfed. The 3rd and only character I find fun to use in friendlies outside of Shulk (main of course for tournament only)
But goddamn does Greninja feel horrible and clunky. The fact he can't do anything else when he does a full hop fair/nair is depressing and for some reason I find myself doing side-b more often when trying to UpB compared to the other 51 characters so many suicides follow suit.
 

ZSaberLink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
393
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but since everyone keeps talking about balance patching, how was Project M patched? Was it constantly updated in terms of stats with each dot release? If it was, it might give an idea on how Nintendo could potentially update Smash 4.
 
Last edited:

Yonder

Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
3,549
Location
Canada,BC
NNID
Skullicide
3DS FC
4055-4053-1813
Game & Watch can also gimp Luigi pretty well. Fire allows him to go surprisingly deep/high, and his disjoints just laugh at Luigi. /late
Game and Watch gimps virtually everyone well thanks to that gigantic fair hitbox [Cept Villager, but who can gimp him?] . And he can go pretty much as deep as he chooses thanks to his fantastic recovery.

He may be a top tier...in the low tier in my eyes [At the top of the low tier to be exact], but his biggest strength in this game is definitely his edgeguarding.
 

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
6,473
Location
San Antonio, Texas
NNID
HeroineYaoki
3DS FC
2191-8960-7738
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but since everyone keeps talking about balance patching, how was Project M patched? Was it constantly updated in terms of stats with each dot release? If it was, it might give an idea on how Nintendo could potentially update Smash 4.
When P:M first started out, the roster list was pretty small (I think only 9 characters were available), and the stage list was not heavily modified. When they added a character, they also patched out any glitches and rebalanced the roster. Generally, it still holds true today. When they add new content, they also rebalance the characters.
 

JediLink

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
778
Location
QLD, Australia
I sometimes see people saying now that Diddy over-centralizes Smash 4 in a way that none of the Melee characters do individually. Is this actually the case, or is it just people claiming the sky is falling?
Diddy is more common in Top 8s than Fox is if that's what you're asking. However, I think that once people learn the matchup and start getting good with other characters, Diddy's dominance will go down, while Fox's dominance can really only go up.

I think the biggest difference we can all agree on between Fox and Diddy is the barrier to entry and amount of commitment required. In Melee, you can't just say "Oh, lost Game 1 with my main, better switch to Fox lol" and expect not to get swiftly 4-stocked.
 
Last edited:

HeavyLobster

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
2,074
NNID
HeavyLobster43
Why do people think Samus is bad? Charge Shot is really scary and her CQC moves are surprisingly quick. I guess she still has a tether grab and can sometimes have trouble killing but she seems like a pretty decent character overall to me.
 

Nobie

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 27, 2002
Messages
2,251
NNID
SDShamshel
3DS FC
2809-8958-8223
Kinda wished I played Greninja before he was nerfed. The 3rd and only character I find fun to use in friendlies outside of Shulk (main of course for tournament only)
But goddamn does Greninja feel horrible and clunky. The fact he can't do anything else when he does a full hop fair/nair is depressing and for some reason I find myself doing side-b more often when trying to UpB compared to the other 51 characters so many suicides follow suit.
I don't know how much 1.0.3 3DS Greninja would have helped with that, aside from being able to Shadow Sneak Cancel things. He has better recovery on a couple of moves, but the general sense of movement with Greninja didn't change.
 

JediLink

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
778
Location
QLD, Australia
Why do people think Samus is bad? Charge Shot is really scary and her CQC moves are surprisingly quick. I guess she still has a tether grab and can sometimes have trouble killing but she seems like a pretty decent character overall to me.
Her terrible air mobility has always been a huge weakness. It's probably not a coincidence that the only game where she wasn't booty was the one where she could use her extremely good waveland to make up for it. And let's not forget the missile/nair nerfs. But hey, I'm not a Samus expert so I don't really know.
 
Last edited:

⑨ball

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
819
Why do people think Samus is bad? Charge Shot is really scary and her CQC moves are surprisingly quick. I guess she still has a tether grab and can sometimes have trouble killing but she seems like a pretty decent character overall to me.
Characters with little tournament representation tend to have little/bad opinions on them as no one knows what they can do so we assume they can't do anything or it's not effective enough in a high level setting.

When you look at the cast you'll typically have a pro player name in mind for who plays them and their consistent placings will more than likely represent the current popular believe about whether they are good or bad. This is also why individual tier lists vary so much.
 

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,158
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
Kinda wished I played Greninja before he was nerfed. The 3rd and only character I find fun to use in friendlies outside of Shulk (main of course for tournament only)
But goddamn does Greninja feel horrible and clunky. The fact he can't do anything else when he does a full hop fair/nair is depressing and for some reason I find myself doing side-b more often when trying to UpB compared to the other 51 characters so many suicides follow suit.
You can't play Greninja like a typical speed character in high-level play.
He does better when pestering opponents with shurikens (even after their nerf) and
using his mobility to evade trouble situations and clinch punishes. Hydro Pump
is better for on-stage movement than one would think (but you need to be quick on the constrol stick).
He's got jab for close punishes, dash grabs for outside footsie distance and shadow sneak for landings.
 

mimgrim

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
9,233
Location
Somewhere magical
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but since everyone keeps talking about balance patching, how was Project M patched? Was it constantly updated in terms of stats with each dot release? If it was, it might give an idea on how Nintendo could potentially update Smash 4.
It's also important to keep in mind that Project M is still basically in beta and hasn't gone "gold" yet. Though recently the big patches have been slowing down, I believe 3.0 to 3.5 was over a year (outside of the small patches 3.0 received to fix various bugs).

Why do people think Samus is bad? Charge Shot is really scary and her CQC moves are surprisingly quick. I guess she still has a tether grab and can sometimes have trouble killing but she seems like a pretty decent character overall to me.
Her CQC game isn't really all that good in spite of her good frame numbers for her attacks, in all honesty. Charge Shot is scary, sure, but when it is the only real scary thing you have? Eh.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Orlando, Florida
Why do people think Samus is bad? Charge Shot is really scary and her CQC moves are surprisingly quick. I guess she still has a tether grab and can sometimes have trouble killing but she seems like a pretty decent character overall to me.
I've seen Chozox play a lot, who's one of the only Samus players placing well with her so far. Samus just seems really limited when it comes to the amount of options she has. Chozox is a really great and smart player, but he's forced to rely so heavily on charge shot and screw attack. Like 70% of all the damage and hits he lands are from those two moves. I think Charge shot and screw attack are great moves but the rest of her moveset seems so painfully mediocre.
 

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
6,473
Location
San Antonio, Texas
NNID
HeroineYaoki
3DS FC
2191-8960-7738
Chozox could use D-air and U-air a lot more honestly. B-air is also an amazing kill move on Samus as well.
 

FullMoon

i'm just joking with you
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
6,095
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
NNID
INFullMoon
I think what I like about Greninja is that he feels very unique compared to other speedster characters because while he has one of the best (if not THE best) overall mobility in the game you really need to play smart with him in order to get anywhere. Of course, learning how to use him efficiently when compared to the far easier to use Sheik who is overall a better character is not worth the effort unless you really like the character/playstyle.

He's about precision, so you need to be very accurate with your timing for his moves or you won't get far, being precise however rewards you with a lot of good combos Greninja can use or result in you juggling the opponent for days. Greninja has a lot of trouble in the neutral but once he gets the advantage he can make it really hard to reset the game, what with his fast aerials, mobility and Hydro Pump being able to keep you in the air for longer and mess up your game.

Greninja is also a lot about trickery, Shadow Sneak has a lot of ways it could be used. Recovery, gimping, baiting, punishing... It's very versatile but if you don't play the mindgames well it's not going to work very well, but it has a lot of power behind it and it can certainly catch someone off-guard. Substitute has even more power behind it but, well, it's a conter, you need to bait the right moves in order to bait it efficiently. There's also d-throw, if Greninja can bait an air-dodge after using d-throw, it's very easy to follow up with a lot of moves and you can hit someone with a sweetspot Up-Smash for the kill at higher %s.

So, Greninja has a lot of flaws to his game for sure, being unable to approach properly when needed and having no good options out of shield, learning how to overcome his flaws though takes a lot of practice and dedication. So I can't recommend anyone to main him because of the skill ceiling that I think he has, but if you really like the character or playstyle to want to master it, I personally think the reward is worth it, even if I haven't gotten close to mastering him myself.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic about it, but I really feel like Greninja has a lot going for him if you can get over his shortcomings.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Orlando, Florida
Chozox could use D-air and U-air a lot more honestly. B-air is also an amazing kill move on Samus as well.
I could agree with that. He did do a falling uair combo a couple times but they were pretty sparse. And he almost exclusively used dair offstage, and I've heard that it can be a useful option onstage as well. Samus does have a couple of decent moves outside of charge shot and screw attack, but she still feels like an incomplete character to me.
 

DavemanCozy

Smash Photographer
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
1,716
Location
London, ON
NNID
CavemanCossy
3DS FC
0216-1810-7681
Samus lost all of her ability to come back down onstage when they changed her Nair. It has new utility now, but it doesn't make up for what she lost. In prev smash games, she would be able to fall on opponents with her lasting Nair and give her a chance of at least trading with the opponent chasing her.

All her projectiles sans charge shot are also kinda meh. Missiles are ok if you combine them with charge shots, but bombs are pretty mediocre now that they don't explode on contact.

Her jab in this game is also just really situational, doesn't link properly and is punishable at low percents. She has a very poor foitsies game, something that she was really good with in Melee.

I may have given up on her too soon, she was one of the characters I tried upon release, but I usually find myself playing her for the lulz. I don't doubt that there are players who aee good with her, but she just seems to have too many shortcomings. Even with customs in, the most you can do is improve her zoning game, her neutral game still remains kinda lackluster
 

NachoOfCheese

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
981
Location
Uncharted Island
NNID
NachoOfCheese
How viable is Mega Man? He seems like a good counterpick character since he has some crippling match ups but does really will in others. (hell, half his moves are projectiles).
But I've never used him seriously and don't see a lot of people using him. So I don't know, what's his deal?
 

HeavyLobster

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
2,074
NNID
HeavyLobster43
How viable is Mega Man? He seems like a good counterpick character since he has some crippling match ups but does really will in others. (hell, half his moves are projectiles).
But I've never used him seriously and don't see a lot of people using him. So I don't know, what's his deal?
I think he's high-mid. His bad MUs aren't quite as crippling as you might think, but he definitely has enough not to be top tier. He does have the tools to hold his own and compete at a high level, but he's not an optimal tourney choice compared to Diddy. He'll still have a consistent playerbase as he's unique and popular in addition to his decent viability. A few people have gotten good results with him and I expect that to continue going forward.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom