Character Matchups & Strategies

[Ekoix.exe]

"Marth"

General Discussion of Character:

Pika's Advantages:
-You HAVE a Projectile, Thank god for it.
-Marth has an EXTREMELY gimpable recovery, Gimp him.
-Edgehog for your life.
-Being small, You can't get caught up in a short hop double fair.
-CG him to 40%ish
-Alot of his moves are punishable, do your job and punish him.
-You should be better at spacing
-QACing can really screw up a Marths air juggle flow.

Pika's Disadvantages:
-Thunder is little to no use against a Good marth as he'll easily counter it.
-Down smash is a little less useful because of counter once again.
-Oh my god, FAIR, Your aerial game is COMPLETELY destroyed by Marth.
-Marths disjointed hitbox is so much more longer.

General Strategies:

Helpful Video's:

More to come.

Next weeks char:Obviously Ike

Rating: Pika 4 / Marth 6

 

[gallax]

"Marth"

General Discussion of Character:

Pika's Advantages:
-You HAVE a Projectile, Thank god for it.
-Marth has an EXTREMELY gimpable recovery, Gimp him.
-Edgehog for your life.
-Being small, You can't get caught up in a short hop double fair.
-CG him to 40%ish
-Alot of his moves are punishable, do your job and punish him.
-You should be better at spacing
-QACing can really screw up a Marths air juggle flow.

Pika's Disadvantages:
-Thunder is little to no use against a Good marth as he'll easily counter it.
-Down smash is a little less useful because of counter once again.
-Oh my god, FAIR, Your aerial game is COMPLETELY destroyed by Marth.
-Marths disjointed hitbox is so much more longer.

General Strategies:

Helpful Video's:

More to come.

Next weeks char:Obviously Ike

Rating: Pika 4 / Marth 6

I would have to agree with these statements. Marth definately will try and keep pika at bay with his longe range. pika's fsmash has about the same range as marths fsmash, but the sweetspots are the breaker here. pika's is obviously about 3/4(behind the ball) and marths is at the tip, therefore making marths fsmash better. the dsmash is also riskier against marth because he can powershield it and grab you and/or make you pay.

marth is one character who i like to juggle in the sir though. sure he can counter, but if you usmash>uair>uair>QAC SHuair>FF(or another QAC) its great for getting damage and getting away and potentially leading into some other combos. i do like to use airiels, but mostly the fair/biar. i mainly use the nair for edgeguarding(along witht thunder of coure, but not as much as someone like falco though).

overall though, i play really good marths and they **** my pika. my win ratio is like 2:5. i think marth is one of pika's top 3 hardest matchups and deserves a lot of attention. is anyone has a strategy that they use against marth please feel free to input it because although i have a strategy it may not be the best.

 

[krehz]

Ya I pretty much hate all Marths

 

[gallax]

yeah. him, MK and G&W give me the most problems. ness and lucas are hard too but i can get around them.

one of the hardest thing for me is that marth can easily get around the tjolt and most of our defenses and can really punish pika due to his light weight. the low hit stun makes it hard to fight marth.

 

[krehz]

Ok i have the ultimate plan.........................anyone who does not have a counter or reflector.....GET THEM IN THE FREAKING AIR!!!!!!!!! lol Thunder works wonders against them....including metaknight......if u get MK in the air hes is pretty much done for (depending on how good they are)....and MK has a point on a lot of his special moves where he is totally defenseless.....for example, his B> when he is done, he flashes for a couple secs......just dodge the initial attack, and then PUNISH HIM :D

 

[krehz]

oh ya and a great pika combo is to run at ur opponent......upsmash fast......then thunder, and if they are then to high up for ur thunder, jump and thunder.......you don't know how many ppl i have killed doing that when they were like at 30% damage

 

[Dream Land Works]

Oh nos, the spams...

Anyways, here is the my Marth post.

General Discussion of Character:

Marth really doesn't need much of a explanation. He's Marth. Only problems are no projectile and he dies earlier than some characters. Wow who cares, he is Marth no need to talk about what he is like.Iif you played a good Marth then you know exactly how good he is.

Pika's Advanages:

1) Pikachu has a projectile and Marth doesn't.
2) Pikachu has faster running speed and Quick Attack Cancel also gives Pikachu speed.
3) Can't be edgeguarded well due to the physics/speed of Quick Attack.
4) Pikachu has a more effective edgeguarding game for this match than Marth due to Advantage 3.
5) You can crawl under some of Marth's aerials/

Pika's Disadvantages:

1) Marth can jab Pikachu's Thunder Jolts.
2) Marth is slightly heavier than Pikachu.
3) Marth has larger priority in most attacks (I beileve only Pika's Forward Smash equals Marth's priority).
4) Marth has a counter move, Counter.
5) Marth has a better aerial game.
6) Marth has a better ground game.
7) Marth's sweetspot for Forward Smash is a tipper while Pikachu's is near Pika's face and in the middle.
8) Oh, have I mentioned that Marth has larger priority?

General Strategies:

Marth really likes spacing. So first off, keep close to Marth. Just be prepared to shield, roll, spot dodge against an attack and Down Smash or grab when Marth shields. While you are away from Marth, try to kep out of Marth's priority range and use Thunder Jolts (of course I am talking about Short Hop or Full Jump). Quick Attack Cancel into a Thunder works pretty nicely in this match, if the Marth isn't expecting Thunder that is. When you edgeguard Marth, try to push him as far away from the stage as possible (watch out for Counter) and then edgehog. If you can use it, try to Thunder edgeguard with two midair Thunders, but you probably won't be able to use it due to Counter. Up Smash to Thunder or juggling to Thunder can work against Marth as well and will probably be your main method of killing for this match unless someway you get close enough to land Forward Smash's sweetspot and don't get countered. Marth is defiantly at an advantage in this match, but messing up Marth's spacing game is a key point to winning the match.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

Ok i have the ultimate plan.........................anyone who does not have a counter or reflector.....GET THEM IN THE FREAKING AIR!!!!!!!!! lol Thunder works wonders against them....including metaknight......if u get MK in the air hes is pretty much done for (depending on how good they are)....and MK has a point on a lot of his special moves where he is totally defenseless.....for example, his B> when he is done, he flashes for a couple secs......just dodge the initial attack, and then PUNISH HIM :D

oh ya and a great pika combo is to run at ur opponent......upsmash fast......then thunder, and if they are then to high up for ur thunder, jump and thunder.......you don't know how many ppl i have killed doing that when they were like at 30% damage

Except we're talking about marth. Who has a counter. Now shut the **** up alredy and stay on topic or dont speak at all. If your playing ANYONE WORTH PLAYING, all of your strategies are null, as most people know what DI'ing is.

As a side note, ANY MK WORTH PLAYING drives his B moves into the ground so he doesnt take freefall.

 

[krehz]

I know dude i was just joking about that other stuff dude not tryin to cause an issue.... and even though the do it on or into the ground there is still like a half a second delay before he can attack again.......but anyways enough about that......Marth, one strategy is to let him attak first.....and then downsmash, but It's not always effective.....and seriously dude i wasn't trying to make an issue about it...

 

[gallax]

hey guys. sorry that the falco matchup isnt up yet. because the boards went down i couldnt get to some very important information. but now that the boards are up i have saved the info just in case they go down again. so it will be up very soon.

 

[Roller]

All I have to say is

chaingrab; spam projectiles until he approaches, and to approach yourself; Edgehog; TAUNT; don't try to fight him too much in the air (his priority is too good); don't use headbutt to recover because counter owns you in the mouth.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[gallax]

All I have to say is

chaingrab; spam projectiles until he approaches, and to approach yourself; Edgehog; TAUNT; don't try to fight him too much in the air (his priority is too good); don't use headbutt to recover because counter owns you in the mouth.

And that's all I have to say about that.

short, simple, effective. good post.

 

[Roller]

short, simple, effective. good post.

Thanks, I try.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

I know dude i was just joking about that other stuff dude not tryin to cause an issue.... and even though the do it on or into the ground there is still like a half a second delay before he can attack again.......but anyways enough about that......Marth, one strategy is to let him attak first.....and then downsmash, but It's not always effective.....and seriously dude i wasn't trying to make an issue about it...

Stop speaking. I was referencing to THUNDER, which it really doesn't freaking matter if he miss's a counter in mid air because the delay will be over by the time he's within attack range. For Marth if you let him take the offensive your ****ed over alredy because of his huge prioritys and range over you. 2x FAIR one SHORT HOP. Marth>Pikachu.

 

[Roller]

Stop speaking. I was referencing to THUNDER, which it really doesn't freaking matter if he miss's a counter in mid air because the delay will be over by the time he's within attack range. For Marth if you let him take the offensive your ****ed over alredy because of his huge prioritys and range over you. 2x FAIR one SHORT HOP. Marth>Pikachu.

Somebody seems a little gwumpy. lol

 

[Ekoix.exe]

Somebody seems a little gwumpy. lol

I dont like complete utter crap being contributed to something that people might actually look to for help.

 

[SSBbo]

i just started using pika (i used to use everyone but him). i think spamming is great (as everyone has mentioned).
AVOID HIS SIDE+B COMBO! this has great range, but if you keep a little distance you can roll behind it easily.
stay close but not too close. you both have good range. the only problem with this is his counter.
don't use thunder unless he far above you. thunder is easy to see coming and marth can counter it.
also don't charge side+b, marths see that and use counter pretty quick. unless he's stupid and uses counter immediately, then you can wait until his counter wears off.

 

[gallax]

the marths i play love to use their dtilt to stab at pika to keep pika from getting in close to dsmash. then they either use theirdancing blades or shieldbreaker. also with the shieldbreaker, if you attempt to use your skullbash while trying to recover, not only can the marth use his counter or fair, but he can use his neutral b(shielbreaker) and tip you which will alnost certainly mean instant death. so watch out when recovering.

 

[krehz]

All I have to say is

chaingrab; spam projectiles until he approaches, and to approach yourself; Edgehog; TAUNT; don't try to fight him too much in the air (his priority is too good); don't use headbutt to recover because counter owns you in the mouth.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Ya i totally agree with this as well....it's basically all u need to know in a couple lines

 

[gallax]

hey guys finally finished the falco matchup. its up and running. if you have any problems with it just post your idea. thanks!

 

[Ekoix.exe]

All I have to say is

chaingrab; spam projectiles until he approaches, and to approach yourself; Edgehog; TAUNT; don't try to fight him too much in the air (his priority is too good); don't use headbutt to recover because counter owns you in the mouth.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Someones stealing my Taunt line...

Oh and, Edge hogging gets you ledge spiked in a jiffy. You want to Thunder spam off playform because Counter in midair gimps him if he's off platform.

Reason edge hogging gets your owned? Easy, Marth uses Shield breaker to glide under you then procedes to UP-B, if you dont get up, You die, If you get up, He's up and ready to own you in the face.

 

[Piman34]

when i fight marth, he gives me trouble off the stage with his fairs...so id like to know a way to get out of that...maybe its just my poor DIing skills that need work on

also, his range gets me, as well as his tilting my thunderjolts yet if i angle them with a fullhopped t-jolt, i can usually approach and grab right after he tilts to negate it

one question about recovering...if its not recommended to use skull bash due to counter, how then should we recover since pika is so light, compared to a medium marth? i mean i get sent flying alot, but trying to fight on the ground seems hard. maybe its just the style of the guy i play against

 

[AvalancheBarrage]

when i fight marth, he gives me trouble off the stage with his fairs...so id like to know a way to get out of that...maybe its just my poor DIing skills that need work on

also, his range gets me, as well as his tilting my thunderjolts yet if i angle them with a fullhopped t-jolt, i can usually approach and grab right after he tilts to negate it

one question about recovering...if its not recommended to use skull bash due to counter, how then should we recover since pika is so light, compared to a medium marth? i mean i get sent flying alot, but trying to fight on the ground seems hard. maybe its just the style of the guy i play against

As for recovering when he uses fairs, the only thing I could think of would be just try to do an air dodge if possible then hopefully you can get past enough so that if Marth still does attack you they send you back instead of forwards to your doom.

His range is a problem, not only that his attacks are pretty fast. Maybe try to run at marth but do nothing in that run, and when you get closer to marth try doing a tiny backwards empty short-hop to dodge the attack then quick aerial strike and run. I wish I could help more, but I've never exactly faced a good marth with Pika.

Since you can't recover all the way to the stage with skull bash, try using skull bash to get only part way to the stage, then aim your quick attack for the ledge.

I hope this helps, though I've never really had any experience with the issue =\

 

[philbobjoe]

Pikachu - A straight forward match. Pikachu has some good tools honestly, but you have a sword. You can jab Thunder Jolts all day. QAC is annoying, but not deadly since tit only goes into aerials, and Pika's aerials are outranged and outprioritized by you. D-smash has tons of priority, but your spacing game means you won't be getting hit by it much. If you get hit by it just repeatedly Smash DI up and you can get out fairly easily. If you don't Smash DI out in time DI to the left or the right, so Pika can't hit you with Thunder after the D-smash. Your F-smash is equal to his in range, but his sweetspot is in the middle of the thunder shock, while yours is at the tip of the blade so Marth wins out here. His recovery is good, while his edgeguarding is decnt, but not spectacular, so generally the both of you won't be edgeguarding each other too effectively, although you can edgehug him easily when you know he has to go for the ledge. If he is edgeguarding he will usually do a jumping Thunder Jolt that you will have to contend with. Just fair it if you can or airdodge if you aren't too low. If you are edgeguarding him and he just used skull bash then you can run out and hit him if you space well or counter it.

Emblem Lord said this about the Pikachu, Marth matchup. He believes it to be a 6:4 in favor of Marth.

 

[gallax]

well even though EL said this it still doesnt tell you how or what to do. it just says what happens if you do use skullbash. the point of these thread is to develop a strategy, not just talk about it. here's a word of advice. when getting knocked off the edge(for any matchup) the first thing you should do is airdodge along with DIing towards the stage. this gives you the ability to use a move to stop your momentum. DO NOT USE YOUR JUMP UNLESS YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST. use your skullbash to get you near the stage. do not worry about getting low because you have saved your jump. use it when you are near the stage. this is what EL is talking about when he say both of you wont be edgeguarding that much. good players usually save their jumps when recovering. this opens up many options for you by saving that jump. this way you wont have to use the skullbash to get in close and then get wrecked.

 

[SSBbo]

i think that it's a fairly even matchup, with player's styles deciding the victor.
here are the characters advantages:
Marth- Counter, good range, nice recovery, great airs, great tilts, shield-breaker.
Pikachu- thunder, good recovery, downsmash, double quick-attack, okay range, down air, good tilts, Fair.

i think the person with the better reflexes and strategy will win.

on an unrelated note, my week five guess is (drumroll) Ike.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

i think that it's a fairly even matchup, with player's styles deciding the victor.
here are the characters advantages:
Marth- Counter, good range, nice recovery, great airs, great tilts, shield-breaker.
Pikachu- thunder, good recovery, downsmash, double quick-attack, okay range, down air, good tilts, Fair.

i think the person with the better reflexes and strategy will win.

on an unrelated note, my week five guess is (drumroll) Ike.

Thunder isn't an advantage against Marth. Marths recovery is zomg gimpable with TJolt. QAC has little use against Marth aswell. Dair and Fair are no longer advantages as your air game is a sucky bag of suck against Marth.

3/7 Favour of Marth for me.

Week 5 is definetly Ike or Snake

 

[gallax]

this matchup is really intersting since marth's range really hurts pika here. sure marths recovery is gimpable and the tjolt can be used to help, getting marth off the stage is the hard part. as for the QAC not being very useful...i think this may be a little underestimated. QAC>SH> many mindgames. that only one application of teh QAC though. airdodging and QAC back can make your pika unpredictable. plus you can always QAC>dair/thunder/dsmash/fsmash(Sweetspot yours and take his away). i think the QAC is a must have in this matchup.

 

[Roller]

QuAC is ALWAYS a must have imho. If not just for the mindgames.

When does next opponent start?

 

[SSBbo]

oddly enough, i didn't like ike when the game came out. when i learned how to shield, roll, spotdodge, evade effectively, and time my shash charge right, i started using ike, ganondorf, and donkey kong.

back to the subject of this weeks matchup, definately close, mainly cuz of marth's range.

 

[gallax]

next weeks character definately start tomorrow , but if concensus has it we can start today. the info wont be up till later though. i still have to write it out and proof it.

 

[Roller]

I motion to proceed to next weeks character.

 

[SSBbo]

I motion to proceed to next weeks character.

I second that, cuz i think there's no disagreeing that marth and pika is a great matchup.
chu just has to make it past marth's killer range.

 

[gallax]

ok then. this weeks character is IKE!!!!!! We have had pika being at a disadvantage for the past 3 weeks. its time to turn the table for a week. or are we really?

 

[Roller]

Ike shouldn't be a problem if you play like a D-bag and spam jolts while staying at a far distance.

Don't edgegrab very often because it is too hard to gimp an aether. I stay away from him when he is airborn because of his devastating arials and QuAC around a lot, especially through them, followed with a Fsmash when they swing in the other direction (which for some odd reason everyone seems to do when you QuAC through them).

If you are going to guard the edge I suggest doing so with thunders and jolts, nothing that puts you in arial range without you having frames of invincibility for it.

I'll add more when I think of it.

 

[Piman34]

One thing about Ike I notice is how much tjolts push him back. Now, Ike and bowser are the only heavy chars I usually face, but when I hit with a tjolt to Ike, he goes back really far. Make that really really far at higher percents. On top of that, his recovery is very easy to gimp, especially since I have had experiences where tjolt has pierced his super armor from up B and killed him lol

Basically, the only move that has enough lag from pikas perspective is SH bair, and dair into the ground. if you use any other move you have enough time to dodge, or roll or even shield Ikes attacks. That being said, you shouldnt not use bair and dair, just use them more wisely.

Definite win here for me

Just my $.02

 

[gallax]

lets see. the first thing that comes to mind when i think of ike is priority moves. if you make a mistake then you are toast. a powerful swing that can rack up 20+ in one hit is crazy. even his ftilt/uair/bair are great killing moves. the usmash can hit all around him and can be used underplatforms to make hiding a bit more difficult.

but, the thing with ike is that his moves are very laggy. any good ike will try and compensate for this though and use moves that will not leave him open. this means less smashes and more tilts coupled with nairs/fairs/bairs/uair/ every air except for his dair which will never be used in this match.

my friend has a good ike and i play either like a d-bag(like mentioned above) or i am extremely aggresive and try everything i can to get ike of the ledge. he is such a fast falling character that all you need to do is use a couple of nairs off the stage and you are golden.

 

[SSBbo]

QAC takes care of Ike really well. I know, cuz I use Ike alot. unfortunately you can't do it forever cuz of counter.
Ike's range > Pika's range. Ike's smashes are very sluggish but have good range especially Usmash.
you can spam him alot with Dsmash. you can't spam Tjolt cuz ike can cancel them with jab.
In the air, pika kinda has an advantage cuz of his Dair and Fair, but Ike has good aerials too.
any good ike can dodge, roll, etc. really great, so thunder isn't a great thing to use.
i think 7/3 in favor of pika, even though ike has good range, strong attcks, counter, spikes, and holds his own in the air.

but against defensive ikes, 6/4.

If you're playing a GREAT ike (i.e. me) then it can be very close.
ike's have to pracrice a good while to get around fast characters (i know from experience) so if anyone here uses mains with someone fast and uses ike as a secondary, or doesn't have alot of practice, don't go against the chu.

 

[Press22]

A thing to watch out for is Skull bash recovery when fighting an Ike, they will and can do Eruption to kill you, and due to the super armor can still live with the damage.

 

[gallax]

yes. that is something to definately watch out for. the eruption is a great pika killer, especially in the air too. the eruption also has the ability to spike, but difficult to pull off dont really worry, just something to know.

as for airiels, i love using the nair/fair against ike.