• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Cheese

D

Deleted member

Guest
matchup: 5:5 if not more in link's favor

Zair: Fantastic
You will ALWAYS connect with this, if you don't i feel sad for you

Jab Cancel: Fantastic
DK can't do crap against link's jab cancel

if you can tech then the stage spike shouldn't effect the game at all. ledge jump tech out of the stage spike and nair him right in his face to stage spike him (high %.)
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,716
Location
Chicago
Donkey is big....Zair him to death just like you would with DDD

Jab Cancel works wonderful too. DK has a lot of range on his moves due to those long monkey arms but he is so big it is easy to hit him.

D-tilt and U-tilt are really fast but they don't have the range that his F-tilt has which I believe is slightly slower but still really fast. DK overall has good range on tilts so getting in may to perform a jab cancel may be somewhat more difficult but not to much because you have better spacing techniques. If you know how to jab cancel properly DK will crap his pants.

This matchup basically goes like this. DK meets Link combo's tries to space with tilts. Too bad for him Link has a zair and DK learns to go to air now and then. He will mix up his ground and air game with an appropriate balance. Link uses Techniques Like DAC making it Dangerous for DK to be up there. But DK is also extermely Dangerous in the air. He has 3 spikes each with different range that he can use accordingly as well as a Fantastic B-air.

DK will try to RAR you and if he gets you going you can get in some real trouble. DK also has a lot of power so if you have trouble comboing, it will be you who is crapping your pants.

DK can carry you off the stage and with Links bad recovery you can probably guess that is not too got for the hero of time.

You must take advantage of DK's big body and combo. He is heavy which should make it even easier.

His recovery his all horizontal so if he needs to recover from below he's screwed. If he needs to recover horizontally, a flying dair should do the trick if he is about even with the stage since predicting his recovery trajectory is easy. If he is above the stage you may have to chase him a little but he will eventually free fall into more Link combo's and possibly a dair.

If your falling for His forward B Giant punch combo....I call it the Sakuri combo (because it was the only combo meant to be in brawl it seems) then you need to improve your game. You shouldn't fall for this that often if ever.

By the way Giant Punch hurts.

5:5 Even up to 4:6 Link. Anywhere in between is appropriate.
 

Ich Bin Awesome

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
467
Location
Los Angeles
Edgeguarding--DK is perfect for the bomb drop dair edgeguard. As pointed out earlier his recovery is a bit predictable and has limited options. The bomb drop limits his options and if hit by it the extra damage that pops him up into your dair could mean a kill.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
jab cancel: fantastic

since wolf is heavy jab cancels will wreck him at low %

zair: fantastic

he's tall enough to get hit by both hits of the zair and the zair really wrecks him later on

the secret of this battle is nair edge guarding and zair edge guarding. wolf's recovery sucks like falco's so its easy to edge guard him. if you have half a brain spamming shouldnt be a problem. the fsmash is easy to see coming and you should be able to power shield it. if you do power shield it and wolf is at a high% (kill zone %) up b out of shield for the kill.

kill moves are normal and utilt to build up dmg.
 

4Serial

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,237
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
FOR DK AND HIS GRAB > CARGO > STAGE SPIKE JUST TECH IT
caps because you didn't put this in the "how do you deal with it" <_<

I don't know about z-air vs Wolf. It hits him sometimes, but if he's like dashing he can go under it. F-smash goes under it and hits you. He has a DAC as well, and it can hit you. You can pressure his shield with it if he puts it up though. His laser isn't amazing but it's still annoying as hell. People don't mention this enough, his d-smash out of shield is deadly. I don't think you can shield grab it because it's so god **** quick, powerful and almost unpunishable while in shield.

So yeah, don't use z-air stupid or you will get punished. Space yourself really well from his shield and z-air it. Expect an f-smash out of shield after and shieldgrab it.

Jab cancels work on this heavy *** character, assuming you haven't gotten f-smashed/d-smashed getting that close to him. Jabbing in general is good to get him off you.

You want to keep him at mid range where his d-smash won't hit you, his f-smash will be predictable, and you can pressure him enough so he can't laser camp.

Watch out for that B-air. Honestly, if he ever jumps and is facing backwards, expect a b-air and shield it. Don't bother trying to punish it though because it has no lag. Punish the common f-smash that follows up.

For his reflector, if he doesn't hit you with it, just grab him. If he does, put your shield up before he can f/d-smash you.

Grab him a lot. Jab him a lot. Fight back with Bombs. If it's obvious he's going to reflect it, bombsmash him in the face.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Oh that part was in there. For some reason when I edited out some stuff last night in the main post it decided to delete half of the main guide. Thank god for all the little posts amirite?
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,716
Location
Chicago
Wolf is strange......his recovery sux balls so taking advantage of it is key.

Good Wolfs won't spam blaster and F-smash but they will use it.

Wolf has an amazing edgaurd and it starts with his blaster your your far away. If you get closer, wolf will begin to use his bair which is an amazing move.

zair and jab cancel work well against wolf.

He does have a reflector that has either invincibility or SA during initial frames....i forget which one. This makes it a good offensive wepon as well as a spam blocker.

Spacing is important....while wolfs range on his d-smash is short....it is super powerful and super quick.

Wolf Like you is a spacing character and wants to fight you at either long range where he has an advantage due to his blaster and reflector. or short range where he has really quick moves.

Fight him midrange it his is weakness.

If they are button mashin F-smash they are noobs. Powershield and punish during its cool down time.

D-smash is really the only smash you have to worry about.

Also Wolf has a good DAC watch out.

I think it is a 5:5 matchup.

Also is donkey really 8:2.....maybe too much but whatever....7:3 at the most i thought
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
If you have a problem with the DK entry, take it up with Izaw. He says 9:1, I averaged the two ratings that I thought were valid. DK is one of the easiest match-ups for Link by far.
 

KillaFrmNY

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
735
Location
Donkey Kong's Country
Thats a dum mentality in my opinion. I love Izaw and all but just because HE SAYS that its 9:1 your not gonna listen to anyone else on thier opinion? I still think Wolf has aadvantage over link. Most of theses matchups are nuetral for link but when it really comes down to it link is still gonna get beat cuz after all hes Link.
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,716
Location
Chicago
I don't disagree.....i just thought it was 8:2 i thought it was a little much but it is close enough.....

And there is no way Link has a 7:3 adv On wolf.....if you say that you've never played a good one.

I would be really surprised if it was 7:3.......Wolf is also a spacing character which means it comes down to who has better spacing. This means it is a skill game....... I estimate probably between 4;6 or 6;4...either way.

Wolfs that smash blaster and f-smash are bad wolfs so unless you've faced a good wolf.....

By they way if wolf can make it to the edge his recovery AT Scarring is awesome and hard to stop.....beat him to the ledge and don't let him do that.
 

4Serial

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,237
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I thought that the match up with DK was at LEAST 6:4 in Link's favour, and some people might agree to 7:3. I thought I read somewhere on smashboards by a DK player that Link is one of DK's hardest match ups.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Thats a dum mentality in my opinion. I love Izaw and all but just because HE SAYS that its 9:1 your not gonna listen to anyone else on thier opinion? I still think Wolf has aadvantage over link. Most of theses matchups are nuetral for link but when it really comes down to it link is still gonna get beat cuz after all hes Link.
I do listen to most people's opinions. However I have to use my better judgment instead of listening to every random person who decides to post. If you pay attention I posted it as 8:2, if you have a really big problem with it give me a long detailed post as to your reasoning. If I find your post intelligent, I might change it.

The DK entry will not go beyond 70:30, for the reason that it shouldn't even be close.

I hate to pull the "Grammar Police" badge out and wave it around but if you want me to take your post seriously when it comes to questioning my judgment on these things... use some sort of spell check or just spend more than 5 seconds typing your post.

When it comes to Izaw's opinion, I take it with a grain of salt. The guy is quite fantastic at playing Link, so a 50:50 for him is really more due to experience and general playing ability. I treat the match-up as if it was for a semi-pro level. Someone who knows the AT's and match-ups. I feel the way I rank these matches is fair, and again if you still have an issue after I've explained this, give me your reasonings. However if you just spew that garbage similar to the post I have quoted, I won't give you the time of day.
-------------------------------------
This is directed to the rest of the readers:

To be honest, a lot of the people in here said that Diddy wasn't an even match-up. They saw it as 40:60, while Izaw saw it as 60:40. I thought it through and came to the decision that I should consult multiple players, and then make my own decision based on that. On most match-ups I have private conversations with players at different levels of play.

Really to be honest, I put a lot of work into this guide. I don't just slap a post up and ignore the users. I read through every post, put in a lot of time for the private convos, and study the opposing character's board. I have to consider the pro level of play as the inevitable level that the match-up will reach. If I don't, I'm not writing a good guide at all. I'm simply writing a match-up guide that only talks about Link at half-potential.

If you have a problem with that you can simply go **** yourself.

Edit: Also I'm going to be busy until probably tomorrow or Sunday. I'll have the Wolf write-up done by then most likely. For the record, if you have any other topics you want discussed about a character, talk about them. The format is just a basic outline. Seriously, I'd appreciate not having to repeat that. The only main info I want from each poster is...
Zair Effectiveness
-Explanation
Jab Cancel Effectiveness
-Explanation
Match-Up Ratio
-Explanation, including topics posted and others potentially unaddressed.
 

Metro Knight

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
705
Location
Mississippi
i think that wolf has a very big advantage on Link. For a link player to be really good versus a good wolf player, it takes a whole lot of time. You have to get used to avoiding the dsmash, the fsmash, and his laser. Like, once you get used to those attacks Wolf becomes much easier to play against. I think a really campy Wolf can give Link a lot of problems, you have to be on your A game with projectiles and projectile follow ups in order to beat Wolf a lot, otherwise he is just going to fsmash/laser you until 100ish% than Dsmash you off the stage. The horizontalish spike, that can't not be tethered, (like in Izaw's video) makes it a really deadly move versus Link. Most standard smashes, like Marth's Fsmash, you can recovery from unless he tippers you, as long as you are patient with your 2nd jump, and avoid getting hit while recovering, etc etc, but versus Wolf's Dmash it pushes you more horizontally, so you generally can't recovery from it unless it gets really stale.

Tips: If you just killed Wolf, and have high damage, do not let him get a fresh dsmash on you.
Most tournament Legal stages favor Wolf, so try picking stages where the Laser can not reach you. Example: Battlefield or Final Desination. If you are playing in Smashville or Yoshi's Island, he is going to have a much easier time gimping you with his laser, due to the small fighting area. Pokemon Stadium is a pretty random, I think that stage can hurt you as much as help you, depending on the terrain, and Lylat Cruise is also a weird stage that can help/hurt you. I do not play counterpick stages as much as the main picks, so can't really help you there. Also when Wolf is shooting his laser, just remember to crouch, and you will start auto shielding without the fear of letting down the shield.

I have found that the zair isn't very effective against Wolf, because he is constantly haunching over and this makes him much harder to hit, also if you play the air game with him, those smashes are generally fresh, and you are going to risk losing a stock. So, I would be very careful with the ZAIR, certainly do not risk using a ZAIR if you are a novice at it. The jab cancel is really useful, just make sure you are far enough away to prevent a shield grab, b/c even though your jabs have multiple hits and you have range, you have to make sure your spacing is right, otherwise he will just throw you for 10-12% dmg.

Besides the laser, be really careful about getting hit with the Fsmash, if he has good spacing, he can get 2 in a row, which is really ****ing annoying. However, a lot of the time you can DI out of it, so it just takes practice to deal with that move. If you can avoid taking damage from that move, then it will make his life a lot harder, considering he might use a dmash or 2, which could save you later. Arrow canceling can really save you versus a lot of fsmashes if you are good at it, always remeber to arrow cancel.

I haven't had that many problems with the reflector, unless I charge up an arrow, most of the time I am dancing around with boomerangs and bombs, so I don't have many problems with the reflector. If you want to do a double jumped fully charge arrow, that could be effective, but I would only recommend it in stages that are large enough to where Wolf's laser can not reach you.

The jab cancel is really good, but just keep in mind that Wolf has pretty good jabs/ftilts, so if he is doing either of those, it can make your jab canceling less effective.

All in all, I think Wolf is a hard match for Link, more experienced players might have less of a problem with Wolf, if they have played a lot of good Wolf's. I think playing against a campy wolf would probably be Link's hardest match up, but if you are going against a very aggressive Wolf, it isn't so bad. I would probably rate the matchups as like 50/50 if the Wolf is kinda bad, but more like 30/70 if it is a good campy wolf, versus a good link who lacks experience versus Wolf, otherwise I would rate it at around 40/60.



On the bright side, my Link pwned my brother's Wolf, who from what I have seen is really good, he isn't Germ, but he is certainly better than a lot of the Wolf's out there, like the Vista videos I have seen and the guy Overswarm played in that tournament. And he might be harder to play than Germ due to Germ not being very defensive.

Videos showing the characters versus Link would be nice, if we have them. If someone is serious though, they can just go to the video archive. I mean, all posting it here would do is save them time so they would not have to watch the so so matches. Videos versus most of these characters are in there. Some characters are going to be harder to find, in Mississippi we will have a smaller tournament in Oxford at Play and trade at the end of the month, and I will try and post videos from that.
 

Ich Bin Awesome

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
467
Location
Los Angeles
I do listen to most people's opinions. However I have to use my better judgment instead of listening to every random person who decides to post. If you pay attention I posted it as 8:2, if you have a really big problem with it give me a long detailed post as to your reasoning. If I find your post intelligent, I might change it.

The DK entry will not go beyond 70:30, for the reason that it shouldn't even be close.

I hate to pull the "Grammar Police" badge out and wave it around but if you want me to take your post seriously when it comes to questioning my judgment on these things... use some sort of spell check or just spend more than 5 seconds typing your post.

When it comes to Izaw's opinion, I take it with a grain of salt. The guy is quite fantastic at playing Link, so a 50:50 for him is really more due to experience and general playing ability. I treat the match-up as if it was for a semi-pro level. Someone who knows the AT's and match-ups. I feel the way I rank these matches is fair, and again if you still have an issue after I've explained this, give me your reasonings. However if you just spew that garbage similar to the post I have quoted, I won't give you the time of day.


I mostly disagree with the snake match-up. I don't understand how it can be even when I have to put much more work into a victory with link versus a snake player's effort. I remember Deva mentioning this as well saying he didn't like losing to less skilled players only because they main snake (I don't remember his exact words).

I do take these match-ups with a grain of salt, however, since it's unlikely that a match-up thread created in the Link boards will be free of bias. Maybe we can get the perspective of the other character boards; though it also would be biased, we can assume that the truth should lie somewhere in the middle.

As for the being a "grammar nazi," come on, this isn't the Times. This is an internet forum for a character in a video game. Any leetspeak or internet slang is appropriate for this thread.

Anyway, this is actually one of the better match-up threads for any character as it is well thought out and setup. I'm sure once it's done it finished it will have been much more discussed and much more accurate.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
I mostly disagree with the snake match-up. I don't understand how it can be even when I have to put much more work into a victory with link versus a snake player's effort. I remember Deva mentioning this as well saying he didn't like losing to less skilled players only because they main snake (I don't remember his exact words).
Again, semi-pro level of play for Link is different than Snake. You have to be much more advanced. Seriously, being pro at Link is getting your doctorate at Smash... Snake is a GED.

I do take these match-ups with a grain of salt, however, since it's unlikely that a match-up thread created in the Link boards will be free of bias. Maybe we can get the perspective of the other character boards; though it also would be biased, we can assume that the truth should lie somewhere in the middle.
I read other forums threads and talk with some members of their communities. Most of them can't recall even fighting a good Link, so maybe in a couple of months we'll have reliable info from most of them

As for the being a "grammar nazi," come on, this isn't the Times. This is an internet forum for a character in a video game. Any leetspeak or internet slang is appropriate for this thread.
Yet your post is relatively free of typos... <_<;
My main point is if he wants to argue with me, he better do it right or I just won't care. He's free to write like an idiot, I just won't read it.

Anyway, this is actually one of the better match-up threads for any character as it is well thought out and setup. I'm sure once it's done it finished it will have been much more discussed and much more accurate.
It's relatively accurate now, the issue is I can't get proper feedback from the opposing communities. I talked with 7 or 8 members of the Zero Suit Samus community because I was considering doing that match-up (No it's not the next match-up). Only one of them can even recall fighting someone with a maybe decent Link. Not a good Link mind you, a decent one.

Oh and thanks, I've been getting a good amount of positive feedback on this thread. KillafrmNY seriously hasn't really contributed much to this thread anyway. When a lot of regular posters and people I have the convos with say I'm going too far outside of the box, I'll take a step back and take a look.

Other than that, I should have the Wolf match-up done tonight or tomorrow. Seriously for a thread started a couple weeks ago a lot is already done. I'm sadly busy most of today, and tomorrow, and monday <_<;. I'll find the time don't worry.
 

NintenJoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
893
Location
Chicago, Illinois
I usually don't have a lot of problems with Wolf, but spacing is key in this particular match-up. Wolf's Smashes and tilts have much less start up time than Link's, so baiting Wolf to come to you is your best option.

Zair Effectiveness- Although it doesn't always hit twice like it does with characters like DK and Bowser, it's still an effective aerial. This attack is just low enough to the ground to hit Wolf on the head. One a scale of 1-10 I'd say about 7-8 effectiveness.

Jab Cancel Effectiveness- Wolf is a very heavy character, and therefore, easily jab cancelled. Using a spacing move is your best option because if Wolf's close enough to you after your jab cancel he can punish you easily. Probably about a 9 out of 10 for this one.

DAC Effectivness- The DAC is great against an unsuspecting Wolf when your far away. The problem is that Link can easily get bached out of the DAC with one of Wolf's lasers. Use this move sparingly, because if you use it all the time the Wolf will punish you severely.

Bomb/Projectiles- Both Wolf's and Link's projectiles are slow, so this ends in somewhat of a stalemate. You can block his laser with your sheild and he can send back your arrows with his reflector. I recommend using bombs often (as usual) but limiting the use of arrows.

Match Up- Probably about 5:5 for this match-up. Your projectile game is hard to use, close combat will result in you getting owned, and Wolf can spike you easily. The good thing is Wolf's recovery is bad too, so exploit that with Zair Edgeguard, Gale Guarding, Speed Hugging, etc. Space the game well, out projectile Wolf, don't get spiked and you'll have the advantage.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
lol, no offance to Izaw, he has an awesome Link but who knows about his match-up experience?

I don't disagree.....i just thought it was 8:2 i thought it was a little much but it is close enough.....

And there is no way Link has a 7:3 adv On wolf.....if you say that you've never played a good one.

I would be really surprised if it was 7:3.......Wolf is also a spacing character which means it comes down to who has better spacing. This means it is a skill game....... I estimate probably between 4;6 or 6;4...either way.

Wolfs that smash blaster and f-smash are bad wolfs so unless you've faced a good wolf.....

By they way if wolf can make it to the edge his recovery AT Scarring is awesome and hard to stop.....beat him to the ledge and don't let him do that.
I actually meant, that Wolf has the advantage...70:30
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
I'm sure DK's bair WOP means nothing against the character with one of the worst recoveries in the game, no?
8:2 is ridiculous. If you wanted to be optimistic you should've gone for neutral.

Izaw is very good, but something tells me he's playing DK's who aren't anywhere near his standards.
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Ugh... Joe you make me want to add things like DAC effectiveness sections to each post...

STOP INSPIRING ME TO WORK YOU SONUVABETCH!

I'm sure DK's bair WOP means nothing against the character with one of the worst recoveries in the game, no?
8:2 is ridiculous. If you wanted to be optimistic you should've gone for neutral.
Most Link players actually follow the policy of "Don't get hit/grabbed." Link can just plain outspace DK. It's just that simple.

Izaw is very good, but something tells me he's playing DK's who aren't anywhere near his standards.
I trust Izaw to not feed the Link community bull#$*&. If you don't trust him that's fine, your loss.
 

BrimeZ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
266
Location
Newark De
NNID
TheBrimeZ
3DS FC
5284-1495-9667
I don't agree that the match up for Link vs Falco is 2:8. I would say it's more like 4:6 in Falco's favor.

Eventhough Falco is a bird, that best way to approach him from the Air. You out proirize all of his arials with your arials if he goes after you. And you Nair and Dair can get past his up smash and up tilt. And the prevent all chances of you getting grabbed, land with the tip of Link's foot hitting Falco's shield, and then grab him since Link has one of the longest grabs in teh game. And since he kicks his reflector, you can pressure his shield by dropping or throwing a bomb downwards. You also have longer ranges on the ground with your titls and smashes. Falco's downsmash is the only smash you should be worried about. And keeping in the air most of the time will prevent you from getting grabbed, laser spamed, or reflected often.

Also you can punish Falcos reovery easy. You Dair destroys both of Falco's recoveries. Gale gaurding also works well too. If the Falco is dumb enough to miss sweet spoting the lege with the foward B, the Fsmash, foward tilt help you out along with the infamous Dair.

It''s also best not to go to stages like Lylat Cruise, or Yoshi Island, since those platfoms are low, Falco can control them well with his reflector and lasers.
I said the best way to approach a Falco is from the air, is because Falco is bish on the ground as we all know. Lasers, Grabs, rapid A attacks, reflectors, etc... But just like in Melee, you can pretty much out prioritize him with all your moves from the air. And since this is Brawl, you can stay in the air longer when you jump, which gives Links move attack and defense options against Falco compared to Melee. In Melee, if the Falco was quick/technical/whatever, he could jump up in Dair you, then start pillaring. It was also pretty easy for the Falco to punish you tried to drop or a bomb down because Link was slower, and there was more gravity. But in Brawl, Falco can either shield or run which you can punish him by doing arials or using projectiles. If he tries to go after you in the air, there is no excuse why he shouldn't get hit. Short hop, down bomb throw to back air or bow cancel works well to. Since there are a bunch or ways to attack from the air with Link against Falco, it opens alot of approtunnities for mindgames. If you're in the air, you don't have to answer Falco's uptilts and jabs

Shield grabbing Falco in Brawl is similar to how it was in Melee. If the Falco Lag cancels(with the excetiopn or the fair, bair and upair) you can't and/or shouldn't shield grab. I belive it's just best to jab, uptitlt, or short hop nair out the shield. Or just keep shield still he stops his jabs or whatnot. Usually the Falco will try and smash attack after his jabs, and if your shield is still stand, then you can shield grab him. Links jabs totures every character in the game, and they prevent Falco from jabbing, grabbing, reflecting at close range. It is possible to shield grab Falcos jabs because I think Links grab has super amor. I've seen situation where Link took direct hit from attacks, took the damage, and still grabbed.

This is my perspective on the Link vs Falco matchup.

I think Wolf is Link's second hardest match up
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
I'll review the Falco match-up, but it may not be changed for a little while so don't get too antsy if you don't see it hop up anytime soon. I doubt it would go much higher over 30:70, but I'll review it. I want to finish up the Wolf match-up and get a new one started that I can be lazy about doing. I'll try to get updates in on Wednesdays and Saturdays at a bare minimum, I've just gotten really busy lately so yeah.
 

ArdeS

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
447
Location
Lake Forest, CA (949)
Bouse I just wanted to say thank you very much for this guide. I haven't come across a more helpful and thorough character guide in any other forum. This stuff should be published... xD

My brother mains Wolf, so he's pretty much the only character I fight, unfortunately. I'd write more but... no time to spare. xD

But again, thanks a lot for this guide.
 

Deva

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,704
Location
Spokane, Wa
If the Wolf and Link are good, the matchup is 50/50. I've played some not so great Wolf players and it's usually a pretty easy matchup, but When I was playing the Germ we were about 50/50.

And not to be a d!ck, but based on Izaw's view of the DK matchup, I'd have to agree that he hasnt played a DK at his lvl of play XD. There's no way Link has an 80/20 matchup against a DK if both players are good lol. If anything, I'd say this matchup is 50/50 also. Link can space the crap out of DK, so if both players are good, DK generally tends to just get a few hits in occassionally. Thing is though, DK's kill moves are ****, and when he lands one even at low %'s, it's ggz Link. So by the time Link spaces perfectly and gets a kill move, DK has hit him a few times and also landed a kill move, overall, 50/50.

Falco is more 60/40, Falco's favor imo. I'll try to post some vids if they ever get uploaded >_>.
 

NintenJoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
893
Location
Chicago, Illinois
If the Wolf and Link are good, the matchup is 50/50. I've played some not so great Wolf players and it's usually a pretty easy matchup, but When I was playing the Germ we were about 50/50.

And not to be a d!ck, but based on Izaw's view of the DK matchup, I'd have to agree that he hasnt played a DK at his lvl of play XD. There's no way Link has an 80/20 matchup against a DK if both players are good lol. If anything, I'd say this matchup is 50/50 also. Link can space the crap out of DK, so if both players are good, DK generally tends to just get a few hits in occassionally. Thing is though, DK's kill moves are ****, and when he lands one even at low %'s, it's ggz Link. So by the time Link spaces perfectly and gets a kill move, DK has hit him a few times and also landed a kill move, overall, 50/50.

Falco is more 60/40, Falco's favor imo. I'll try to post some vids if they ever get uploaded >_>.
I see where you're coming from on this one Deva, and I agree on the DK thing for the most part (maybe like 60/40 favor Link) but the Falco thing I have to disagree with. Falco's chaingrab into spike is almost impossible to avoid, his reflector sends back any projectile except your bombs, and Falco is faster than Link so there's no hope in running away to set up a defensive counter-attack.

Please explain the 60/40 though. I hate this match-up and if there's any way around it I'd really like to know it. :laugh:
 

Deva

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,704
Location
Spokane, Wa
I was having really close matches with SK92 o_0


he cant reflector zair, so you can approach with or move away with air dodges, you can generally recover after the CG to dair. The reflector counters all your projectiles, including the bomb, but you can mindgame him with them. If he reflects the rang it doesnt hurt you, just run up to him and punish him from the lag of using the reflector, if you have a bomb in hand f-smash while holding it instead of throwing it, and in general, Falco is easier to combo with Link than other characters. Along with a relatively easy to edge guard recovery, it's a doable matchup. Also, I mean if it's a good Link and good Falco. If The Link or Falco are mediocre the Falco usually has a serious advantage due to the CG.
 

NintenJoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
893
Location
Chicago, Illinois
If The Link or Falco are mediocre the Falco usually has a serious advantage due to the CG.
No wonder I get friggen destroyed. :laugh: Thanks for clearing that up though Deva!

P.S. When I said he reflector could reflect everything except bombs, I meant that the bombs wouldn't be reflected directly back at you. They usually just fall to the ground and explode.
 

Onomanic

Heaven Piercer
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,263
Location
Westwood, NJ
I hate the Falco/Link match up... I brawled with this one kid who only played Falco and got *****. But that was before I discovered the boards lol Your bombs go useless (fricken reflector) unlike Link vs Fox (I think he has to shine them, not hold down the shield... w/e) But I have yet to fight another good Falco... But yeah maybe 40/60, Falco's favor. Fox would probably be 50/50, 60/50, Link's favor. But that's for later :p This thread needs a sticky btw.
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,716
Location
Chicago
Told ya DK wasn't 80:20.....

Anyway, not many people are talking about wolf now....shall we move the discussion to the next character???
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Yeah, I worked all day. I'll change it later tonight.

I have character revisions which I probably will do first. Most likely 70/60:30/40 Link:DK, and 30:70 Link:Falco.

Falco is hard, and Link does have the advantage against DK. I'll make a decision on how much soon.

It'll be easier when I have my laptop... I seriously hate this desktop. Hopefully I get it back soon <_<;.

I already have the next match-up in mind so don't worry about that. It'll be up and ready for commenting for tomorrow. Next write-up will probably come around Thursday. With school+work I may reduce it to 1-3 a week depending on the match-up and how many rewrites I have to do.

Seriously to Deva, Legan, and Izaw. Post in the **** thread more often.

I'm fine with doing rewrites but not if people are too lazy to post in the thread in the first place.
 

KillaFrmNY

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
735
Location
Donkey Kong's Country
I like how you edited, the DK bouse good job. And funni thing is, i went to my first tourney just last saturday, and faced a wolf. Matches were pretty even but a wolfs dsmash is really what makes teh matchup 60:40 instead of 50:50.
 

Finns7

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
896
Ive 2 stocked falcos who knew how to cg ill admit they werent sk92s level but they werent noobs. The key with fighting falco and any other character is staying out of there **** segments (most great players have **** segments/combos whatever) and keeping them in yours. When im comboing a falco/whoever It kinda lets me control the pace of the match and falco is kinda light imo so if your kill moves are fresh you should be able to kill him at at 80%.

Wolf is easier to fight than the other fur fighters but he is the more spammy char. Remember Wolf has very fast smash attacks his dsmash can kill link very easily because it sends him flying horizontally (even though I DI up) so becareful by the edges and dont leave yourself open. Wolfs recovery is gimpable is you predict the sideB and the upb can be zaired.

I made my brother quit using toon link he claims Link is overpowered and is cheating........<_<, anyway my advice is too not get caught in toonlinks gay arieal combos and if you do make sure you DI so the combo wont do too much damage or kill you. Toon Link just like Link can set up combos with his projectiles so watch out, his projectile game is good so dont try to outspam him. He is quick so if you mess up on one of your grabs, AT or whatever you can get ravished easily. Watch your approach because Toonlinks spot dodge is as quick as Link and his running upsmash is a quick kill move.

All in all Im going to say that when you use Link against these chars remember the pros and cons but also remember they can be overcome with just being smarter than your opponent for instance ZOMG SNAKES AH COMEN at me with a nair well just shield grab his *** and combo him to oblivion. Im going to approach this falco with meh zair because Links projectiles cant get pass his reflector because he will always know the right time to use the reflector and using mindgaming a falco into getting hit by a projectile are out of the question because Falco is TOP tiers, so zair is the only way ...Falco dodge to grab to grab to grab to...ect Link dies,millions of babies have no breast milk ect all because Link losing.
 

NintenJoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
893
Location
Chicago, Illinois
Toon Link:

Zair: Just like with the other "medium sized" characters, the Zair hardly hits twice, but usually hits at least once. So, don't spam the Zair against Toon Link, but use it for spacing whenever it's necessary.

Jab Cancel: Toon Link is very light, so Jab cancel doesn't work as well as it does with the heavier characters. If you do use a jab cancel, either follow up with a spin attack or a Utilt, Dsmash and Fsmash usually miss or Toon Link DIs out of the jabs.

Toon Link... better?: Toon Link is faster and has more spammable projectiles than Link, but he doesn't have as much priority. Link's bombs dominate Toon Link's, so use than to your advantage. If you are able to out-projectile Toon Link, he will be forced to come up close and personal, which gives you the chance to utilize Link's higher priority.

Sheild Game: Toon Link rolls faster. Either smash Toon Link out of there or get the hell away from him.

Projectile Game: Toon Link's projectiles are faster and cancel out Link's, so you need to get crafty with your unique "B" moves. Instead of throwing your boomerang directly at Toon Link, use it to pull him towards you. Use the double and tripledraw to your advantage against really spammy Toon Links. Throw lots of bombs, Link's are stronger and have more splash damage than Toon Link's.

Match-Up: 60:40 Toon Link's favor. Toon Link has better spam and can cancel your spam. Although you have higher priority, you also have more punishable attacks. I don't play many Toon Links, but it seems like an uphill battle.
 
Top Bottom