Choosing Your Starter: IKE take TWO

[Bomber7]

your post

What was said about Ivysaur was something that I was looking for. I know Ivy quite a bit from the battery I have with her and Squirtle so I was pretty confident that she would be able to do things like that (need to stop making a final decision before discussion is over lol)

Charizard: you hit the main points on the head which we all really have stated concern about. At most I would say Charizard could do decent but not good enough, not at least as good as Squirtle or Ivy could, assuming Ivy really is legit against Samus. However the only details that seems to mess me up when thinking about this is my lack match-up experience and everyone here starts with a different pokemon and their main skills lie in each different one. Considering there are few who start with Ivy and Ivy is not as talked about as much as Charizard as Squirtle, there is a part of her capabilities that are left in the dark.

Let's keep the posts coming.

 

[Magik0722]

Dont even worry about this matchup, youll never meet a samus anyway


p.s. Use ivysuar

 

[Bomber7]

Dont even worry about this matchup, youll never meet a samus anyway


p.s. Use ivysuar

Met Xyro at Dibbz and got my *** handed to me (gg's though).

right now I'm leaning toward Squirtle and Ivy. So far they seem to be good choices plus, once this is all done it will only be version 1.0 so after everything is completed, the thread will be open for free discussion incase something new came up that changes who should start against a certain character.

I'll wait about another day or so and see what happens post wise. Then we can move on.

 

[Tien2500]

again, im not a pkmn t expert so u may wanna confirm all of this with many other pkmn t players.

if it comes down to hit for hit to see who gets the KO first, zard wins easy.

BUT¡¡¡¡¡!!!!!!!¡¡¡¡¡!!!!¡¡¡

Samus can build damage much better than zard.


also, some one google the brawl character weight list. i would but im on wii net.

EDIT: it seems zard is just a tad bit lighter than samus. i looked it up

Where did you check the weights? I have Zard as heavier than Samus. Also because of Samus' floatiness I believe the difference in weight is a little more noticeable with vertical knockback. http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight

I still say Squirtle is the best starter but perhaps that is because my Ivy is really subpar. Zair is a fairly big problem and I don't really see razor leaf fully fixing that.

If you started with Ivy though you would have the advantage of getting to switch to Zard if you get the KO first and you could stock tank. Zard sucks as a starter but if Samus has to KO him he becomes amazing. I'd never start Zard though.

 

[Xyro77]

Dont even worry about this matchup, youll never meet a samus anyway


p.s. Use ivysuar

True, the chances of meeting a GOOD samus is slim to none. But again, starting with ivysaur is ******** IMO.

Where did you check the weights? I have Zard as heavier than Samus. Also because of Samus' floatiness I believe the difference in weight is a little more noticeable with vertical knockback. http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight

I still say Squirtle is the best starter but perhaps that is because my Ivy is really subpar. Zair is a fairly big problem and I don't really see razor leaf fully fixing that.

IMO razer leaf is a wasted move. If magik is correct(and he always is) razer leafs angle is at random(which is stupid). no matter how low it fires, zair can go through it. If i can hit a ducking kirby/jiggs.......razer leaf is no problem.


as for the weight, i used the link u provided but i found a more accurate link here at swf. And yes you are right, char is heavier than samus, i was wrong.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162546

 

[Tien2500]

True, the chances of meeting a GOOD samus is slim to none. But again, starting with ivysaur is ******** IMO.

IMO razer leaf is a wasted move. If magik is correct(and he always is) razer leafs angle is at random(which is stupid). no matter how low it fires, zair can go through it. If i can hit a ducking kirby/jiggs.......razer leaf is no problem.

Most (probably 70-80% of the time) it will go straight ahead. Rarely it will move slightly up or down but especially against a larger character like Samus the amount it curves isn't that big of a deal. Zair can go through it but IIRC correctly the hitboxes won't interact and they'll trade if put into direct competition. Like I said razor leaf isn't going to be able to counteract zair completely (mostly since zair is much faster) but it helps somewhat.

 

[MaTA]

like i said bomber it would be a lot of dodging/shielding but i think i can do it. i dont think getting hit by a zair will stop charizard. I've watched magiks vids, i really play my charizard different though. Thats just what i think and is my opinion

 

[Tien2500]

like i said bomber it would be a lot of dodging/shielding but i think i can do it. i dont think getting hit by a zair will stop charizard. I've watched magiks vids, i really play my charizard different though. Thats just what i think and is my opinion

Getting hit with a Zair won't stop you. Getting hit by 10 of them might.

 

[MaTA]

I dont think he can zair 10 times in the air

 

[Katakiri]

Getting hit with a Zair won't stop you. Getting hit by 10 of them might.

To be fair, it's not the fact that he's getting hit by Z-Air that hurts Charizard in this match.

It's the fact that is disrupts all his approaches. For example, you think you're gonna come at Samus with a B-Air or something but instead you end up getting Z-Aired then eating a Charge Shot at point blank.

Charizard's a pretty big target so that's gonna be happening more than we'd like.


Ivysaur can at least space Razor Leafs which helps a ton since Samus is one of those "I have no need to approach you" characters.

Ivysaur should outrun Samus in the air every time since Ivysaur is actually pretty maneuverable in the air. Not as much as Squirtle but a little faster than Olimar. (Olimar's floatiness makes him go farther though) Just some food for thought.

 

[CoonTail]

Here in NY we have ryhme and I dont know how he compares to Xyro but hes a pretty scary samus player so I deff see the use in this thread for me right now.

Second getting hit by z-air wont stop you, BUT its not meant to stop you its meant to off balance you so when samus gets zero landing lag and fires off the full charged shot all hell will break lose. The z-air stuffs alot of our approaches and leaves her with a WAY bigger opening so in short z-air isnt going to kill us its going to LEAD to our deaths if we dont pay attention.

Ivy- great starter just watch out for the d-tilt. Overall Ivy has the options on samus and the tether to beat out the spike. This doesnt mean Ivy has full advantage it jus means Ivy when played correctly(which should be 100% of the time if Ivy is out there figuring Ivy is the reason PT is in D-tier) can really have the tools to take a samus down

Zard- as stated a good late gamer......dont start with him because the early combos will leave him in a bloody pile

Squirt- great starter jus the damage racking seen in magik vs. Xyro vids so the isue. Our little teenage mutant ninja squirtle may be a badass on the offensive but if samus off balances him and puts the pressure on hes gonna take ALOT of damage and honestly thats something he really cant take ALOT of.

Id say go Ivy!

 

[Magik0722]

Ivy isnt really manuverable in the air at all

I thought he was one of the worst in the game

 

[Xyro77]

If it helps at all. Ill MM any ivysaur and beat the **** out of it so you guys leanr and dont make a mistake by going ivy at first. No offense to any of you but going ivy first is pretty much starting off the match with 2 stocks.

 

[Magik0722]

Ill do it xyro

 

[Xyro77]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!

It can be a MM or a "first to 5" thingy. ONLY ivysaur. Ill allow you to change to ivy without being hit or are there hacks to where u can ONLY be ivy? In any case, these need to be recorded so everybody can see how bad or good it is for ivy.

 

[Magik0722]

I cant switch out of ivysuar? Thats not what people are aruging over
Ivysuar sucks later on in the match, switch out of ivy at mid percents is probably the best thing to do
Ivysuar cant land KO moves, gets gimped at higher percents and gets fatigued. Switching to zard solves all these problems

This is a starter strategy thread, and the starter strategy with ivysuar to is switch to zard mid stock.


But still i could still do 100% ivysuar

 

[Xyro77]

oh so you wanna do a reg fight but with ivy as the starter? ok thats fine

 

[Katakiri]

If it helps at all. Ill MM any ivysaur and beat the **** out of it so you guys leanr and dont make a mistake by going ivy at first. No offense to any of you but going ivy first is pretty much starting off the match with 2 stocks.

^This is helping the discussion. Everything's so clear now.

You've yet to post a GOOD argument as to how Ivysaur gets handled by Samus.

 

[Xyro77]

^This is helping the discussion. Everything's so clear now.

You've yet to post a GOOD argument as to how Ivysaur gets handled by Samus.

if its just ivy vs samus.......


Samus recovery> ivys.

I have bomb jumping
Im more floaty
My tether is longer than yours
I have a UP+B(that isnt a tether)



Samus projectiles> ivys.

Lock-on Missle
Super Missle
Charge shot(low-medium-fully)
Zair(its considered a prijectile)



Fire>Grass

Double knock back from fair/U-smash/D-tilt. Does fire do anything else to grass?



Gimping

Can ivysaur gimp other than tether? Samus can shoot homing missles to knock u off your tether attempt. I can walk off and zair and double jump back and zair AND then UP+B to stop u from grabing the ledge.

I can walk off and spike at any give time and nearly any give depth and STILL come back safe.



Spacing

Your best spacing attacks is bair and razor leaf right9correct me if i wrong)? ALL of samus projectiles out reach that AND they all combo into something(grabs, CS, dash attack, dair....ect)









Though IMO samus is not bette than PKMN T, she IS better than ivysaur in EVERY WAY,SHAPE and FORM.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I've played both Samus vs Poke Trainer, and Trainer vs Samus, and I can say one thing...

When I play as Samus, I'm alergic to Squirtles. X_x They're annoying, and my projectiles fly over his head 70% of the time.
He is however spike-fodder while executing his Waterfall.

Ivy is easy to hit with projectiles, and my fair to dtilt works masterfully on it. I can outcamp Ivy easily, but I'm not getting into a close fight with him. Zair, zee missiles and charged (or uncharged) shots rack enough damage to finish with Fair-to-dtilt.

Charz: 50/50. Both characters are slow moving on air, making them obvious targets for meteor smashes, but Samus can outcamp Charizard, and Zair him almost to death. Again, close quarters is very dangerous against Charizard. It's a matter of each playing their cards well, and it's an even match, IMO.

 

[Katakiri]

Relies in red, blah blah blah, standard procedure.

if its just ivy vs samus.......


Samus recovery> ivys. As if Ivysaur's going to go offstage for a gimp. Really now...

I have bomb jumping Razor Leaf
Im more floaty So you die from Up-Smash, Up-Air, & Up-Throw faster....kinda cancels out that Fire weakness we have
My tether is longer than yours Ivysaur has the longest diagonal range of ANY tether. But lined up with the ledge, you're right.
I have a UP+B(that isnt a tether) Again Ivysaur is not going to try to gimp you.



Samus projectiles> ivys.

Lock-on Missle B-Air
Super Missle B-Air
Charge shot(low-medium-fully) B-Air - B-Air - Dodge
Zair(its considered a prijectile) Razor Leaf travels farther (Swear I covered all this already ʅ(ಠɷಠ)ɿ )


Fire>Grass

Double knock back from fair/U-smash/D-tilt. Does fire do anything else to grass? It's not double. It's 1.1 times the damage/knockback. So with a FRESH D-Tilt instead of dying at 120 with NO DI like everyone else her weight, she dies at 110 with NO DI.



Gimping

Can ivysaur gimp other than tether? Samus can shoot homing missles to knock u off your tether attempt. I can walk off and zair and double jump back and zair AND then UP+B to stop u from grabing the ledge. RRRRRAZOR LEAF and D-Air stall. Also.....how's Samus gonna get Ivy offstage with Samus' horizontal knockback? ..........JAY KAY ʅ(°ɷ°)ɿ

I can walk off and spike at any give time and nearly any give depth and STILL come back safe. Ivysaur's Up-B is a METEOR CANCEL. Ivysaur can tether the ledge BEFORE your D-Air animation is even over. (Read my posts **** it)


Spacing

Your best spacing attacks is bair and razor leaf right9correct me if i wrong)? ALL of samus projectiles out reach that AND they all combo into something(grabs, CS, dash attack, dair....ect) BACK AIR FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GOES THROUGH ALL YOUR PROJECTILES!! I'VE TESTED THIS!!! B-Air sets up some nice combos as well. My favorite being B-Air > Grab > Up-Throw > Juggle









Though IMO samus is not bette than PKMN T, she IS better than ivysaur in EVERY WAY,SHAPE and FORM. I'm not seeing it but nice to see you make a post with some juice to it.

Wow I covered more than half of this in my earlier post already. I'll just quote it.

I usually start with Ivysaur against a Samus.

Her B-Air breaks through all her Missiles, Uncharged Shot, and Half-charged Shot. So it's not hard to approach her at all.

Spacing Razor Leaf usually stops any Z-Air shenanigans.

Even though Samus can spike Ivysaur, keep in mind that Ivysaur's Up-B is a Meteor Cancel that Auto-grabs the ledge which nullifies that advantage and can put Samus in a bad position. (You should be able to grab the ledge even before her D-Air animation is over.)

The only things that you should have any trouble with is Samus' Charged Shot, Z-Air, & D-Tilt (The Fire Knockback gives Samus a viable kill move against Ivysaur past 110%).

Ivysaur out-ranges all of Samus' normal ground and aerial attacks so feel free to get physical with her if missiles are giving you any trouble.

You should switch to Charizard pass 100% or to get the kill since Samus has a very hard time killing him.

I don't mean to sound like a *** or anything but I know this match up really well after playing a pretty good friend of mine that mains Samus at least once a week. :/

If it's any indication by my post count, I only post when I know my stuff.

 

[Magik0722]

too long, didnt read

 

[Katakiri]

too long, didnt read

I'll summarize it for you.

Ivysaur can plow through Samus' projectiles with B-Air. (I'd love to see Samus use nothing but Z-Air & Fully Charged Shot)
Z-Air isn't too big of a problem if you taught your Ivysaur Double Jump or Razor Leaf.
Other than that, don't go offstage too far and you'll be fine.
Overall, Ivysaur has no problem with Samus. Charizard should be brought in after 110%

 

[Xyro77]

I can already tell your one of those "ivysaur is teh bestest pokemanz ever" type of person so most of what i said wont sink in.



BTW, just cause u can meteor cancel doesnt mean u will survive a spike at 90% and up(trust me, next to no character can survive that). You assume we would be doing it at 30 or 40 or something.

Samus is a projectile pressure character. Ivysaur cannot sit there and defend against all the types of pressure samus creates........which means you will be forced to the ledge. Thats why i brought up the gimping and recovery.

Razor leaf is long than zair but zair goes thru it(so who cares how long it the leaf goes). And yes you are right about bair and razor leaf stoping projectiles, thats what we want. Once samus missle cancels the projectile, she can run with it, once you bair it, we go in for a grab or CS or whatever. On top of that, zair goes through it.


What i think you dont understand is that our projectiles are not always meant to damage you, they are also meant for distraction and attack wasting.

1. If i super missle(and missle cancel it), you can shield. Congrats, you block my missles but what u failed to realize is that super missle is now being chased by me and my dash grab. Though u blocked the missle, you got grabbed.

2. So what if you ground dodge the missle? Ill dash grab. its one of the few dash grabs that have lingering hit boxes which will grab you out of your ground dodge( i dont even need to time it).

3. Lets say you jump away and bair it. Again, since its missle cancelled and im chasing after the missle, i can jump and zair.

4. lets say you ROLL away or behind me as im chasing the missle......sweet, ill reverse grab.

And im not even going into zair on shield to grab or the double and triple missle techs or zair through stage or zair to CS. The list goes on and on and on. Ivysaur has NO ANSWER to samus. Hell we might even have more pkmn t experience than you have samus experience due to the fact pkmn t is a fanboy character.


PS: iirc you said you play geno samus, right? Thats why u think samus isnt that hard to deal with. Geno is not that good of a samus, seriously.

 

[Magik0722]

Hell we might even have more pkmn t experience than you have same experience due to the fact pkmn t is a fanboy character.

Hey... hey..

 

[Xyro77]

i aint tryin to be rude at all but pkmn t is a fanboy character. MORE people USE/TRY/MAIN/2nd pkmn t than samus.

Sonic/ike/pkmn t/marth are 100% fan boy chars

 

[Katakiri]

I can already tell your one of those "ivysaur is teh bestest pokemanz ever" type of person so most of what i said wont sink in.

Now I'm gonna stop this quote right here Kanye style and say Ivy is my fav but I know she far from the best. So don't even start with that. Let's keep it clean.

Believe you me, I know all about how Samus uses her projectiles. I've secondaried Toon Link and Samus at one point. I've taken all those games she can play with her projectiles into account in my previous posts. No need to worry about that.

But chances are (at least with my play-style) that while you're launching Missiles and whatnot, we're launching Razor Leaves as well. So, why we're inching closer SH B-Airing Missiles, you have to do something about our Razor Leaves as well. It's not like we're just gonna eat projectiles while we have one of our own.

And I know that goes both ways. You can fire Missiles and attempt grabs and we can do the exact same thing to you using our Razor Leaves.

The only difference from what you've stated is the if you ROLL behind Ivysaur, it could be "sweet, i'll reverse grab" or it could be "sweet, free Bullet Seed." I know how bad your grab/pivot grab is anyway. It's Bullet Seed bait.

Oh and I'm not even gonna go into how bad Samus is in the air and how Double Jumping gets around all her Z-Air shenanigans. It would take too much time.



And about your fanboy comment. Um....why would you use a character as bad as Samus if you weren't *gasp* A FANBOY!?!!1!!1!

Something tells me your answer would/could be the same for us PT mains as well. JUST SAYING. ʅ(°ɷ°)ɿ

 

[Tien2500]

i aint tryin to be rude at all but pkmn t is a fanboy character. MORE people USE/TRY/MAIN/2nd pkmn t than samus.

Sonic/ike/pkmn t/marth are 100% fan boy chars

Unless you're playing a top or maybe high tier character you're likely doing it because you're a fan of that character. More people play PT because Samus is hard to use and not very good.

If a missile is PSed is there still enough of a frame advantage to grab? Also how do missiles interact with razor leaf? IIRC leaf goes through them. Not 100% sure though.

 

[Magik0722]

missles and razor leaf destroy each other

strange thing is i think i saw them just dissappear no animation at all

 

[Bomber7]

Ok just got finished reading the couple of pages I missed.

1) Got a trial fight between Magik and Xyro to give a better idea Ivy's starting performance. My only concerns are if Magik has alot of skill with Ivy/starts with her and knows her pretty well to where he makes her play with a high performance rate. Also I know alot of stuff was said about beating up Ivy, however one point I did see not mention was that all we are looking for is starting performance. To avoid a pointless and long debate as to what time interval the beginning of the match is I will make this point short; if Ivy gets wrecked and it's obvious that her performance was not good enough or poor then case closed. However I want you two (Xyro and Magik) to take this like doing a scientific experiment. I want to see the results of 5 matches. Try and get those vids this weekend if you can, post them here and we can review and discuss.

2) Cool the jets on the flame about what is fan boy and what is not. They are just characters, you play who you want to play. It's only common courtesy to respect that choice no matter what you think of the character.

I think that's all I wanted to say. right now I'm seeing that everyone feels they can go with anyone.

You got some that feel Charizard can get in close (slightly feel that way too but I am 50-50 because if he does get in close Samus is in for it).

You got some that feel Ivy can do it because of a projectile game plus she can apparently get around the projectiles better than Charz plus if Samus really doesn't like a vertical game then Ivy is your pick if you have such a strategy to fit that. However there some who just feel that Samus can subdue Ivy and Ivy would be able to put up very little of a fight. (still a 50-50 there as well)

both sides of each coin have put up valid arguments, though it seems at a stand still, so at most for now I think we will go with Squirtle and Ivy against Samus (at most) and then after the version 1.0 is completed we can revisit it in the general free discussion and if it is really valid that what we had was wrong, then it can be fixed.

 

[Magik0722]

The next time well play will probably be the first week of janurary though

 

[Bomber7]

The next time well play will probably be the first week of janurary though

Well That's perfectly fine. We should be done with this by then I'm estimating, so maybe like sunday if there is no more debate on this I will move on, and just put Squirtle and and in January when you guys play if Ivy performs well in the beginning of the match then I will add her. :D

 

[Tien2500]

missles and razor leaf destroy each other

strange thing is i think i saw them just dissappear no animation at all

Hmmm thought the leaves went through. Guess I'm wrong on that. This applies to super and regular missiles?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

if its just ivy vs samus.......


Samus recovery> ivys.

I have bomb jumping
Im more floaty
My tether is longer than yours
I have a UP+B(that isnt a tether)

Almost everyone's recovery is better than Ivysaur's (which covers three of those statements).

Still, if Samus can't get an offstage Z-Air (which is difficult because of their differing fall speeds), Ivysaur should come back every time.

Ivysaur actually prefers fighting floatier characters. Easier to hit with aerials and landing characters with, say, F-Smash or grab.

Ivysaur can deal with Samus's tether recovery (and recovery in general, actually) fairly well by tethering from immediately above the ledge.

Samus projectiles> ivys.

Lock-on Missle
Super Missle
Charge shot(low-medium-fully)
Zair(its considered a prijectile)

Razor Leaf isn't exactly the greatest projectile in the world, but it will get through at times. I'm not sure if the Z-Air cancels it, but if it doesn't, it should be a small issue.

Having better projectiles doesn't mean much when (MOST) projectiles in Brawl aren't very useful.

Fire>Grass

Double knock back from fair/U-smash/D-tilt. Does fire do anything else to grass?

10% more knockback isn't a significant difference, especially when Samus's moves are so weak. D-Tilt kills at about 10% lower than it normally would, and the other two moves are almost never going to land well.

Can ivysaur gimp other than tether? Samus can shoot homing missles to knock u off your tether attempt. I can walk off and zair and double jump back and zair AND then UP+B to stop u from grabing the ledge.

I can walk off and spike at any give time and nearly any give depth and STILL come back safe.

Ivysaur's gimping game is actually rather good. One just has to make sure you don't get hit in a bad way while doing so.

If Ivysaur gets a N-Air spike on a recovering Samus, she's ****ed. D-Air is pretty easy to land from above, as well.

B-Air eats mid-air jumps, but isn't that useful for gimping against Samus. Still, it WILL keep her off the stage if she's recovering.

If Samus isn't abusing invincibility frames with her tether recovery, and a Z-Air isn't coming immediately, Razor Leaf will help, as always.

If Ivysaur recovers from above and avoids the Z-Air, she should be fine with recovering, though. Samus can't come from above, because that's begging for a U-Air/Up-B/F-Air/Bullet Seed, and Ivysaur can control the ledge for edgeguarding well.

Your best spacing attacks is bair and razor leaf right9correct me if i wrong)? ALL of samus projectiles out reach that AND they all combo into something(grabs, CS, dash attack, dair....ect)

B-Air from above, and there isn't a lot that Samus can do except move backward and Z-Air/less useful projectile. Outside of the Z-Air, all of Samus's projectiles can be avoided with a normal human reaction time, which makes it somewhat difficult for Samus to use them as consistent spacing tools, especially when Ivysaur's running speed is pretty good.

Though IMO samus is not bette than PKMN T, she IS better than ivysaur in EVERY WAY,SHAPE and FORM.

She might be better (though I really, really doubt it), but not in a lot of ways.

 

[Tien2500]

Though IMO samus is not bette than PKMN T, she IS better than ivysaur in EVERY WAY,SHAPE and FORM.

KO power...

 

[Retro Gaming]

To be fair, it's not the fact that he's getting hit by Z-Air that hurts Charizard in this match.
Ivysaur should outrun Samus in the air every time since Ivysaur is actually pretty maneuverable in the air. Not as much as Squirtle but a little faster than Olimar. (Olimar's floatiness makes him go farther though) Just some food for thought.

Ivy isnt really manuverable in the air at all

I thought he was one of the worst in the game

At first I was going to say what Magik said but I think that what Katakiri is trying to say is that Ivysaur has a faster fall-speed than Samus. So think vertically, not horizontally.

 

[Esca]

esca 3 stocked my PT in tournament

I sorry.

i think it'd be pretty fun, i'll probably run into him in this month


nevermind

Steeler! We need to MM. I think it'll be fun!

Daaaang. I wanna play Esca at HOBO 20 now. :O

Let's do it son!

Late responses. Sorry. Lol.

 

[Zigsta]

Let's do it son!

Late responses. Sorry. Lol.

Late name searching too good.

Alrighty then, looking forward to some matches!

 

[Bomber7]

Will move on sometime this weekend. Got stuff to do this weekend and a tourny to run tomorrow.

 

[Bomber7]

Character Discussion: SHIEK

I have a friend who used to play Sheik and we exercised the hell out of the PT vs Sheik match-up.

From my experience fighting him, I found that Squirtle is great to start however you can't stock tank with the little guy or he will cost you a stock so it is best to switch to Ivysaur to make the KO.

Starting Ivysaur, I don't do that much but seeing as Sheik has to play a close game makes her susceptible to many of Ivysaur's basic but effective moves; my favorite is a spot-dodge -> Bullet seed. Two of those will set you up for KO %. I'll also say that if you can read Sheik's up-special recovery, you can get in a free upsmash and we all know how much that rocks. In my opinion, you can start with Ivy if you'd like but only if you are used to starting with her. Also instant tether can **** her recovery.

Charizard, I usually manage to get him out on my first stock by doing a 3 Pokemon battery. A sheik that play very close to the vest will eat flamethrower and rock smash. Keep up-smash fresh because it is good for making the KO. Also any awesome move that you have slim chances of using because they are too slow even if they are powerful you can use here against her up-special recovery if you can read it right. Plus sheik is relatively floaty and Charizard loves him some floatiness. Aside from that you can keep her at bay with aerials, my favorite is bair only because he is the only person I've played that I sweet spotted the bair on him(flame tipped).

I forgot to mention, grab game for Charizard and Squirtle rock here so if you are wondering what a good option would be to rack some damage or whatever, grabbing is a good option on her.

Over all, all three do pretty well. It all depends on your style of play. Of course Squirtle is going to do the best because he's Squirtle. But like I said, he can be killed off pretty early so if you want a durable start, go with Ivysair who can out space sheik or Charizard.