<--ChozenOne's "Learn to Fux With Amazingness" Thread-->

[Raistlin]

So dude, what happened?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Nice way to copy,paste,and edit G-reg's post Chozen......



Anywho,i have trouble timing rest on my opponent.I'm not sure if it is distance or not,but i need help on that...

 

[Harvey Birdman]

how can i get the picture of that jigglypuff that looks stoned, i saw it once and it was good

im mainly doing this so i can mark this threard in my subscriptions or whatever but still
lemme git dat pic

 

[Plairnkk]

King and Kish.

and aeroshadow, and killaor, and darc, and the_lunch_king, and jigglymaster, and hyuga, and chillin, and plairnkk, and..uh.. who else plays jiggs at all/mains jiggs?

lmao

i have a resty/comboy/wopy jiggs!
this ranking system is too funny!!!

 

[doyoung2win]

eh? btw chozen all those characters dont work all the time. off the top of my head, samus, the links and yoshi dont always miss and also i think the running grab is not as low so it doesnt catch as well, but im not sure.

 

[PrinceZane]

I tested on someone the other day, and the 1st grab missed, but the 2nd hit. I think it was peach, but don't remember 100%

Is this how it works, or just random luck?

 

[ChozenOne]

eh? btw chozen all those characters dont work all the time. off the top of my head, samus, the links and yoshi dont always miss and also i think the running grab is not as low so it doesnt catch as well, but im not sure.

You are correct sir. Running grabs are unually lower to the ground, and thus can sometimes [if spaced properly] grab you.

So good sir, what happened?

There are several moderators that do not approve of the ChozenOne's superior posting technqiues.

Nice way to copy,paste,and edit G-reg's post Chozen......

We are acually the same person, so really I was copying/editing my own post.

Anywho,i have trouble timing rest on my opponent.I'm not sure if it is distance or not,but i need help on that...

Tech Skill son.. The hitbox is in the eyes.. and mindgames.

Mr. Birdman- Jigglypuff is not stoned. She is clearly bored of this game due to opponents losing to her while falling asleep, and catching up on rest.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

its not from the game, in which jiggs dominates with what i call the sleepy time.

its so picture someone on smashboards had (in their sig maybe?) it was a cool pic but now i cant find it and i figured some jiggly player would. if noone has itll i guess ill make my own

 

[ChozenOne]

..Learning Time..​

After being given much time to reflect, and go through alot of self examination [after of course my ritual of a morning game of badmittin, followed by a bath of the finest perfumes, and oils] the ChozenOne feels that now that the initaial flood of questions has passed it is time for a continuation of Chozen advice that will [hopefully] make all of you fux with amazing.

Recovery with Jigglypuff can be tricky, and difficult. Let's face it.. Jiggs has the best recovery in the game, due to infinite horizontal recovery, and the highest vertical recovery in the game.. not to mention the ability to meteor cancel pretty much every spike in the game. The bottom line is- Never give up. If you somehow find yourself in a situation in mutecity withiout jumps, and under the platfor stall with pounds.. the road will save you.. Brinstar. Same Shizzi.

Do not be afraid to stall in the air. Jiggs has great mobility in the air, but predictability is an issue. Pound forwards, then backwards.. or pound backwards and go into a rain of Bairs. Also do not be afraid to waste all of your jumps. You have six.. they do not. They will also probably also not be counting them like you will, so take advantage of that. Keep them guessing. And if you're far away from the ledge.. pound first, then jump [during the initial jump]. You may have 6 jumps, but don't waste them for no reason.

You must also remember, that Jigglypuff cannot sweetspot the edge [unless you use sing very well (don't worry.. the vids will come)] or use rollout off the stage in an effective manner.. so Marth, Shiek, and any other character with disjointed hitboxes can be quite frusterating.. so unless the ledge is clear, or you need more jumps, don't go for it.. Pound over top them, or do a Nair, to avoid allowing them to get some free damage.

Lastly.. try to recover no matter what. Even Jiggs suprises me sometimes.. She can even recover from the bottom of FoD and clear the base platform by quite a bit. There is most certainly a reason why Jiggs is God Tier for recovery. So use her awesomeness to your advantage. Even if you are totally spiked to the bottom of FD still try.. what are they going to do... charge some needles?? Use that shizz.

Good Day Sirs.

 

[ChozenOne]

Clearly you are all practicing "Fuxing With Amazing" and have no futher questions.

 

[technomancer]

..Learning Time..​

[after of course my ritual of a morning game of badmittin, followed by a bath of the finest perfumes, and oils]

Man oils IMO.

What's your favorite mindgame?

 

[Plairnkk]

Clearly you are all practicing "Fuxing With Amazing" and have no futher questions.

Nah, people just realized they could find better answers on the back of a Cheerios box than you could ever give them.

 

[ChozenOne]

What's your favorite mindgame?

Doing a Nair backwards at low %'s and then resting *rolls eyes*.

Actually i find that after you rest your opponent that can be an effective mindgame in it's own.. therefore your question should be "What is your favorite rest" and the answer is... the "Chozen Rest" aka running up to your opponent, and resting while running through them.

 

[ChozenOne]

..Learning Time..​

When you Uthrow --> Rest your opponent, you can full jump alittle to the left, or alittle to the right, causing the rest to send them almost horizontal toward the wall, and overtop the ground.. vs the "normal" 45-60 degree angle.

You can also (at %'s between 15 & 40)Uthrow --> Uair your opponent, and as they fall below you, rest them. That however is far less effective, and unreliable due to the ability to sometimes jump out in time.

Good Day Sirs.

 

[Aero]

about jiggly sweetspotting

pound snaps to the ledge

like you can pound a bit under it, and you'll snap to the ledge the same way mario/luigi do

 

[ChozenOne]

You are incorrect sir.

 

[doyoung2win]

lol gg. dodging back to stage / ledge is good because of her amazing mobility through the dodge as well as great movement. As for prince zane, you cannot test this by just holding down to duck because during the ducking animation jiggly turns his head and that extra cm is what can give the opponent a chance to grab you. It's best to duck right before you think they will grab you.

 

[PrinceZane]

Well, what I did was have cap as a Lvl 1 on FD. I ducked, he walked to me stood forever, tried a grab and missed. About 2 seconds later (haven't let up from the duck) he tries a grab again - and success.

*shrugs*

 

[ChozenOne]

That good sir.. is what we call a glitch around here.

 

[PrinceZane]

Haha. I figured as much, but wanted to make sure before trying it elsewhere

 

[ChozenOne]

The hitbox on dashgrabs is also quite odd, so if your opponent knows how to space quite well [as to not be rested], they may infact grab you.. however this "grabbing experience" is ussually only seen in shieks.

 

[eastheaven]

What is SS or SAS? I've seen it a few times on Jigglypuff specific.

 

[doyoung2win]

SAS = space animal slayer. SS = silent spectre? lol maybe space slayer. and someone told me that marth can grab you if his foot is in your face but im not sure about this one.

 

[PrinceZane]

SS = super scope! :D

Hmm. I'll test it tonight at the biweekly and let you know dy2w

 

[doyoung2win]

yea im looking at his grab hitboxes through AR. The hitbox is lower inside his body and so there is a better chance to grab you if he basically almost on top of you, but if he misses = auto rest. also his dash grab has a hitbox behind him that can basically grab a ducking kirby so if he is very knowledgeable he can wavedash backwards towards you and then dash grab you from behind. but thats only for super technical people.

post 2:
chozen, which character and strategy is good against nub jigglypuffs. I hate jigglypuff dittoes more than anything else and my other mains fox and falco have little room for error or I die. I was wondering which character and tactic I should use so that I can easily beat this puff that just WoP's.
ei. Marth - fairs comboes to fsmash, fthrow fthrow fsmash, etc.

 

[opiumfish13]

Uthrow + Rest ?

Good morning Mr. ChozenOne. It is known that up to certain low percentages for certain characters, Jigglypuff's Uthrow + Rest combo cannot be DIed out of (ex. Falco 40% or <). Of course while playing for the last couple of days I cannot determine what the percentage range for Fox is. I've only managed to hit w/ this combination when Fox is @ 0%. Even @ this percentage, my Fox opponent can sometimes jump out a couple of frames ahead or smash DIs away. Does Fox not have a guarenteed % range for Uthrow + Rest to hit @? Theoretically, is a perfect DIing Fox not restable w/ uthrow? Thanks in Advance.

 

[PrinceZane]

Fox can be upthrow rested just like falco. The only difference is you can do it to falco at higher %s.

 

[ChozenOne]

Mr. DoYoung.. Use Falco, Spam lasers, and do lots of Dairs.. Spike them whilst they recover. You can also shine-->Uairs alot of the time. Spamming lasers is quite annoying while playing as Jigglypuff, so why not use it as an advantage while playing against a Jiggs player.

Mr. Fish.. realistically you can Uthrow to Rest on ALL space animals until 40%. Past that it's better to just Uthrow-->Uair-->Rest/more Uairs. And yes, a perfect DI'ing Fox will not can hit by Uthrow Rest due to amazing smash DI's.. however even M2K makes mistakes, and Jiggs Uthrow is quite fast, and therefore is hard to perdict, and DI aswell.

Mr. Zane.. It's not that Falco can be Uthrowed-->Rest to higher %'s, it's that he automatically dies due to a poor recovery [aka falling like a rock, even though he's a bird].

Good Day Sirs.

 

[Magus420]

Mr. Fish.. realistically you can Uthrow to Rest on ALL space animals until 40%. Past that it's better to just Uthrow-->Uair-->Rest/more Uairs.

Even with semi-sloppy timing Falco's pretty easy till 60ish as long as you double jump.

a perfect DI'ing Fox will not can hit by Uthrow Rest due to amazing smash DI's..

Smash DI has nothing to do with the combo. Also, if they are at somewhat low damage and they DI the throw AWAY (doesn't work if they DI behind) you can pound them after the throw if you are quick which will setup just right for a rest anyway unless they know exactly what you're doing and how to DI the pound to escape which almost no one does.

Mr. Zane.. It's not that Falco can be Uthrowed-->Rest to higher %'s, it's that he automatically dies due to a poor recovery

False. Falco has a faster top falling speed than Fox which makes it tougher for him to escape vertical combos and allows it to work at higher damage and with more room for error.

 

[PrinceZane]

Yeah, I always thought it was a combo of the fast falling/poor recovery that allows for Falco's higher % chance for up throw/rest. Either way, it's fun

I'm kinda curious about the jiggs ditto thing myself. It pretty much always seems to be a battle of the WoP until someone hits (or misses) a rest, then its just rest spam until its over. Is this typical or?

 

[doyoung2win]

not typical since they usually try not to rest since they can be punished as well. Also if u jiggs ditto someone like magus he will tech your rest and rest you back =\. usually its deaths by fsmash, upsmash, upair, fair or bair. They just last so long and its annoying.

 

[ChozenOne]

Magus.. assuming that they do smashDI [which is the only way they could possibly endup out of range] pound does not hit your opponent 100% of the time due to a variable distance, and you can only rest them if they DI incorrectly [ie into you]. Apparently you are used to ideal "frictionless plane" situations. I am used to opponents that know how to DI.

Saying that a semi-sloppy falco, can also be said for a semi sloppy fox. And as for fox and falco having different falling speeds... obviously, however the statment was generalized b/c the several % difference doesn't really matter.

Mr. Zane- DoYoung is pretty much correct.. except perhaps about Magus. I find it impossible to believe that anyone could possibly double stick everytime they miss a rest, and get hit.

Good Day Sir.

 

[Magus420]

Magus.. assuming that they do smashDI [which is the only way they could possibly endup out of range]...

Stop throwing around terms that you don't even understand like you actually know what you are talking about. Smash DI is completely irrelevant to connecting a pound off of a throw, as you can't even smash DI the u-throw in the first place.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218

Educate yourself please.

...pound does not hit your opponent 100% of the time due to a variable distance, ...

The pound COMBOS from 0-80/85ish (slightly higher for Falco) if they DI away on the throw. Your personal ineptitude of placing the pound has no bearing on the validity of that which is a set combo. Again, if they DI the throw AWAY, you can and always will be able to land a pound on Fox and Falco directly out of the throw within that % range. While the u-throw goes straight up, they are actually thrown starting from behind Jiggs so they don't get as far away when DIing away as they do behind which allows it to work.

...and you can only rest them if they DI incorrectly [ie into you]. Apparently you are used to ideal "frictionless plane" situations. I am used to opponents that know how to DI.

Actually, DIing into you is how they SHOULD be DIing the pound to avoid getting rested. This is also the opposite direction of how they were DIing the throw to begin with however, and would be highly unusual for anyone to do for the most part. Now the important thing. When you u-throw Fox/Falco and they DI the throw to the side do they proceed to tech roll the throw right back towards you again when there's room to just tech roll away instead where they'd be safe? F*** no, that's ******** and will get you rested. They don't want to move towards you they want to get away, which will set them up perfectly for a rest if you catch them with the pound.

I am used to people that know wtf they are talking about before trying to make an argument, actually.

As for the actual DI'd U-Throw -> Pound -> Rest combo, it can work starting from ~5% on Fox and ~10% on Falco (before the throw). At the very low damages it's actually a bit more difficult on Falco than it is on Fox since Falco is lower to the ground at that point, and what keeps it from working at 0% is that they hit the ground before the pound finishes and they would be able to tech before the rest can come out. Unless you are rather good with the timing it usually isn't reliable to catch them before they hit the ground following the pound until they are at least at ~10% (Fox) and ~15% (Falco) before you throw them. At the start of the range you want to dash briefly (this is important) into a shorthop, and start the pound right after you're airborne, and then angle the pound downwards. You gotta make sure you hit with the end of the attack too, so make sure you do it as soon as you can once you're in the air. Unless they knew exactly what you were doing, how pound's knockback works (M2K still has no idea how he should be DIing the various parts of it to get out intentionally. when he asks I just play dumb ), and switched up their DI the opposite way after DIing the throw away they will come down pretty much right ontop of you where you can rest them. As they get more damage you'll need to dash further before jumping, start the pound later into the jump and not angle it all or angle it upwards instead of down, air control backwards a bit to reach them following the pound, as well as double jumping 1-2 times as needed. Even in the off chance someone DID know exactly how to DI the pound out of the throw to avoid getting rested directly, you can just tech-chase rest/u-air->rest/pound->rest them anyway.

Saying that a semi-sloppy falco, can also be said for a semi sloppy fox. And as for fox and falco having different falling speeds... obviously, however the statment was generalized b/c the several % difference doesn't really matter.

Re-read what I said. Semi-sloppy timing was describing the Jiggs player's timing not Falco's. And yes, it does matter. You do not know what you are talking about. Falco is significantly easier to u-throw rest than Fox is. Not just for the higher damage range on the combo, but for the larger windows of error on the Puff's part throughout the range as well. It's not really debatable.

Mr. Zane- DoYoung is pretty much correct.. except perhaps about Magus. I find it impossible to believe that anyone could possibly double stick everytime they miss a rest, and get hit.

You hold the 2 sticks and press the L or R button right before you get hit. It's not difficult.

Also, Jiggs shouldn't be dying after a rest at 0% anyway (after just being KOd from a rest themselves) with just basic directional DI, even on Yoshi's Story. DI up and towards the stage. U-tilt or shffl'd u-air (also d-air >.>) to rest can KO from 0% on an asleep Jiggs though. U-tilt and u-air can be ASDI "CCed" however, which kills the combo since you can shield immediately to avoid the rest. D-air can't be CCed, but is silly and you'd need to guess which direction they're holding to folow their ASDI and know where to place the rest.


What are you fuxing with Chozen?

 

[PrinceZane]

Nice post. Good info Magus

 

[technomancer]

Edit - this post sucked so I edited it.

 

[Aero]

l canceled dair is really awesome in jiggs dittos

at low/mid %'s it combos into grab, usmash, probably fsmash, probably jump rest

 

[Magus420]

l canceled dair is really awesome in jiggs dittos

at low/mid %'s it combos into grab, usmash, probably fsmash, probably jump rest

^^ Yes. This man wins. I thought I was the only one that likes drill grab/u-smashing. I use drill grab on floaties a lot and drill u-smash to KO Samus/Peach/etc that are much easier to KO vertically and in the 90-130 range depending on the stage. Drills are quite safe on most characters if you just confirm a shield hit or not and land behind them if necessary. You can also tap at their shield with u-tilts if they shield and you land behind them. Though f-smash might be able to work at some point, I would think they would have to be at high enough damage where u-smash would KO anyway, and is also nearly twice as fast. I know jump rest after a d-air can work on Marth so I'd imagine Puff as well, though it has to be timed just right or you'd die for it
Much like Zelda dittos, being the 2nd one to kick is also a very good strategy in Jiggs dittos

 

[Overswarm]

Question:

Is there any way to (realistically) auto-cancel Jiggly's dair, then follow up with a u-tilt to rest?

If you spaced Jigg's dair perfectly, to where you would only receive the 4 frames of lag from the landing animation (like peach float canceling), you would theoretically have a perfect rest combo against almost every character in the game.

I've never been able to really pull it off though.

 

[Magus420]

Nah. The auto-cancel on the d-air is so far apart from the last hit that when the difference is combined with the 4 of landlag it ends up being 15... which also happens to be the same exact time of the l-cancel on the d-air anyway. However, it is actually possible to combo the u-tilt out of the drill on some characters when l-cancelled, but unfortunately they generally have to be at too high damage/floaty by the time it actually starts working to be able to rest them out of the u-tilt.

 

[ChozenOne]

What are you fuxing with Chozen?

To be honest Magus.. I'm fuxing w/ Maryland, Virginia.. aka the best smashing region in the country. I'm fuxing w/ playing Team Arlington on a regular basis, and players like Azen, Chillin, and Chudat. I'm fuxing w/ playing competativly since about 14 months ago verses your three years. Yes, you may be fuxing with having more knowledge of the game in the area of %'s, and "smash terminology" however in the area of gameplay aka tourament play i am clearly your superior. Last time i talked to Inui, and Cactar, and other "notables" from your area they all recognized my superiority. You may be fuxing with good, but i am fuxing with amazing.

Please continue to post in this thread and correct my errors when dealing with specific percents and technical terms, however if you feel the need to discredit my name then please feel free to not. I would hate to create a void within this forum, or perhaps instigate a rivalry between us. I wish to continue to post and hope I have not offended you too greatly. There should not be a sckism within such a closely bound, and active community. Other opions and views are a great when aiding in subjective responses, and i sincerly hope that you continue to give your opinion to those whom have not been so blessed as you, and I.

Good Day Sir.