COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[Almas]

Hmm. I guess I can see why it wouldn't work on frozen stages. That was a bit of an oversight on my part. I thought I could save a line sneakily (the line resets the 'pointer', which dictates where information is written), since the next code sets its own pointer anyways. However, the line also functions as an endif - meaning that without it being present, the Merged code would only function if the map selected was not equal to any of the ones chosen. A cute little error ;p.

 

[Alopex]

@WeirdoZ

We'll discuss it on your thread until we establish the mechanics-only standard here. When that happens, we'll know exactly how many lines we have to work with and can start ruling out what won't fit. Then we'll either need to direct people there or come here in order to debate the options with the whole Brawl+ community.

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

That sounds like a plan. But we need to put the link in an easy to see place so people don't just start arguing again here.

 

[Deleted member]

ported the no ASL and SH/FF/dash codes to PAL

http://wiird.l0nk.org/forum/index.php?topic=1814.msg27988#msg27988

 

[SketchHurricane]

Last PT comment. Wouldn't it be amazing if they made a code that gives PT all 6 Pokemon in the game? Ultimate PT O.o

Anyway, what's the topic now then? I think the next thing I'm going to test are a few matches with shield gain at .05 (from .07 default) and shield damage at .4 (from .3 default).

 

[kupo15]

Last PT comment. Wouldn't it be amazing if they made a code that gives PT all 6 Pokemon in the game? Ultimate PT O.o

Anyway, what's the topic now then? I think the next thing I'm going to test are a few matches with shield gain at .05 (from .07 default) and shield damage at .4 (from .3 default).

oh so the higher float for shield damage the faster it goes away? I think its lower

attack_damag*(1-X)=shield_damage

1-X

You know, 0 for shield damage isn't that bad. I need to play against a human but 100% attack dam on shields is interesting

 

[Alopex]

You guys know that making the shield weaker means reducing shieldstun, right?

And considering how, even now, some attacks aren't as safe as they should be, this will only cause the borderline attacks to be tossed into the danger zone.

 

[kupo15]

You guys know that making the shield weaker means reducing shieldstun, right?

And considering how, even now, some attacks aren't as safe as they should be, this will only cause the borderline attacks to be tossed into the danger zone.

not necessarily. Shield stun should regard how moves work on the shield and a shield that is super strong or super weak should have no change except how much shield you have left. I think that adjusting shield damage and shield stun are two separate things and should be treated as such..

 

[shanus]

Why are we nerfing the shield more?

 

[Wumbo]

im not sure where to post this but i've had a wierd glitch happen multiple times to me. I have been playing falco a lot and ive probably played mookies codeset 2x more than kupos. I've had this glitch happen 3 times before. With falco i have a bad habit of fast falling with the Dair so i try to do it instantly after jumping. The glitch causes me to jump 2x the normal height (approx) with my second jump. It is very uncommon, i've played B+ over 30 games with falco.

The only pattern i can find is that it happens when I dash off of a ledge and jump Dair very fast. with little delay inbetween.

I have not had it happen without running off of a ledge so i believe it may have something to do with the no edge lag code.

I'm at school right now XD but when i get home i'll try it on training with 1/4 speed and see if i can find a pattern.

(i am 90% sure this doesnt matter but anyway, It has also only happened on battlefield.)

I'll upload a vid if it happens again. If this is in the wrong thread move it.

 

[Wumbo]

not necessarily. Shield stun should regard how moves work on the shield and a shield that is super strong or super weak should have no change except how much shield you have left. I think that adjusting shield damage and shield stun are two separate things and should be treated as such..

I currently like how the shields are set up in mookies codeset at least (i dunno if theres a difference) One thing i want to bring up is that down dodging is has like 90% invincible frames and 10% vulnerable lag for most characters that i've tested with. (estimate)

weight nerfs air dodging, but is there an easy way to lag the vulnerable frames of a down dodge?

Disregard this if its a noob suggestion.

Either way good work guys one of our biggest problems with brawl when it came out was the buffed defens. Offense should have an advantage over defense in fighting games or else there is no offensie momentum, and it encourages campiness and discourages risk taking. Your making brawl a more exciting game!

 

[Myztek]

You guys are doing a great job on the Brawl+ modification. I'm loving it so far.

I do have a suggestion, though. I don't know if it's been mentioned, cause I haven't bothered to read through a lot of posts, but do you guys think it would be a good idea to reduce the amount of frames it requires for your character to leave the ground after jumping?

Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like jumping just takes a tad too long some times.

 

[SketchHurricane]

im not sure where to post this but i've had a wierd glitch happen multiple times to me.

I'm guessing the opponent was nearby since you were trying to dair spike. Are you sure it wasn't just a footstool jump giving you the extra height?

Why are we nerfing the shield more?

Experimentation, nothing more. We got all these variables, we might as well try em. I also wanted to try a match with absolutley no shield regen just for kicks

 

[Shell]

Yeah, I was thinking about that earlier today. One stock, one shield. Of course it would be much stronger.

I guess it could be kinda fun.

 

[plasmatorture]

I've been running .05 shield regen and .05 shield damage ratio and it feels pretty good. No shield has been broken yet but I've seen them get dangerously close and stay low for a while which seemed right.

I feel like 13/22/5 shieldstun, though, is too much. Bowser's fsmash shieldstuns way too long.

Edit: Also, for the one stock one shield thing, you could set regen to 0 and damage raito to .03 or .02 to make it stronger. possibly reduce the shield loss as well a little bit.

 

[trojanpooh]

Do you think we could give Mario and Luigi better range with their fireballs? They're pretty pitiful as it is right now, especially considering that other characters still have good range on their projectiles.

 

[MookieRah]

but do you guys think it would be a good idea to reduce the amount of frames it requires for your character to leave the ground after jumping?

Sup Myztek. Haven't seen you in forever! In any case, that has been tossed around a few times back here. I'd like to get a 25% reduction in jump lag and see how that changes things myself :-P. I'm not sure how plausible it is, but I kinda remember Almas or someone saying it was possible, and maybe even easy to fix. It'd definitely be nice to have.

Do you think we could give Mario and Luigi better range with their fireballs? They're pretty pitiful as it is right now, especially considering that other characters still have good range on their projectiles.

This is true, although there are other buffs I would toss in first. Mario needs a better recovery. If there is a code that could increase the launch power of his upB that would be great. That said, Mario actually has an INCREDIBLE counter pick stage in B+. Take people to Picto chat. His aim-able forward smash and the fact that the blastzone is pretty close in makes this a stage where Mario can edgeguard like a mofo and not have to worry too much about his shoddy recovery.

 

[Shell]

Anything seems possible right now. I was playing with the idea of giving Mario the old Dr. Mario semi-spike bair. But we'll discuss this when we know what we can do with codes (i.e., how character specific, what properties can easily be modified, possible use of stickers, etc.)

 

[Deleted member]

anyone thought about this:
if we put the shield damage a degeneration on 0 and increased the shieldstun a bit more, it would be more like blocking than it would be shielding

 

[Shell]

Yes, that would remove the shield's uniqueness and depth. It's an interesting what if, but I don't think it would fit with smash's shield killing moves (Yoshi Dair, G&W Bair, Marth Shield Breaker, etc.).

 

[bribri123123]

I found a SICK video on youtube guys... search BEST M OVIE EVER SSBB

 

[Onomanic]

Recently, I saw a video (Kind of like a Brawl+ combo video) and saw Captain Falcon landing knees. But it looked more like a Melee knee, and Captain Falcon wouldn't stop for the knee to connect (like he does in Brawl). Is there a code for this or am I seeing things?

 

[Shell]

No, you aren't seeing things. When moves like Falcon's knee connect, they produce hitlag, which freezes both the attacker and opponent and allows the opponent to input smash DI. This is not a new concept to brawl, there was just less in the past. The hitlag code reduces this lag, making it look more like the melee knee and lessening the SDI frames.

 

[bribri123123]

Shell is right, it does reduce lag...

 

[MookieRah]

Recently, I saw a video (Kind of like a Brawl+ combo video) and saw Captain Falcon landing knees. But it looked more like a Melee knee, and Captain Falcon wouldn't stop for the knee to connect (like he does in Brawl). Is there a code for this or am I seeing things?

Yeah, that guy was probably using the old hitlag code which made it to where the attacker had reduced lag and the guy who got blasted had a normal amount. I kinda miss it, although the way it is now is awesome too.

 

[trojanpooh]

Sup Myztek. Haven't seen you in forever! In any case, that has been tossed around a few times back here. I'd like to get a 25% reduction in jump lag and see how that changes things myself :-P. I'm not sure how plausible it is, but I kinda remember Almas or someone saying it was possible, and maybe even easy to fix. It'd definitely be nice to have.

This is true, although there are other buffs I would toss in first. Mario needs a better recovery. If there is a code that could increase the launch power of his upB that would be great. That said, Mario actually has an INCREDIBLE counter pick stage in B+. Take people to Picto chat. His aim-able forward smash and the fact that the blastzone is pretty close in makes this a stage where Mario can edgeguard like a mofo and not have to worry too much about his shoddy recovery.

It may not be the most important buff, but the way it is now just doesn't even look good. There was absolutly no reason for them to nerf the range of the fireballs so much. It looks out of place and can hardly be called long range. There are definitely more practical changes that need to be made, but this is one change I want badly. Also, someone mentioned it earlier and was ignored, but could a code be made to remove the intro movie from right after you load up the disc so the pregame load time would be less?

 

[CyberGlitch]

If I'm reading that correctly, you're suggesting that selecting the individual Pokemon on the CSS should give you the Trainer with the Pokemon you chose as your starter with the No Auto-Swap code active?

Yes. I see no need to limit the Pokemon from transforming. The Zelda/Sheik argument has already been mentioned.

Shield does not need nerfing. The effectiveness of powershielding might though, given it causes no knockback (sliding from the impact), it's really easy to punish characters that depend on slow moves (Bowser, I'm looking at you).

By the same notion, increasing lag for the down dodge would make it ineffective against certain fast attacking characters. Any increase should be slight. I do get annoyed though when I can't hit a person after they spotdodging, even when I predict they'll do so because they has so little vulnerability.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Also, someone mentioned it earlier and was ignored, but could a code be made to remove the intro movie from right after you load up the disc so the pregame load time would be less?

that's an awesome idea.

 

[MookieRah]

but could a code be made to remove the intro movie from right after you load up the disc so the pregame load time would be less?

Wow, that would be a great idea actually. It would make testing codes easier, cause a lot of testing codes is trial and error and the load times for all of it gets annoying.

 

[Deleted member]

that would be a good one but I wouldn't even have a clue how that should be done.

 

[Team Giza]

I feel like 13/22/5 shieldstun, though, is too much. Bowser's fsmash shieldstuns way too long.

I don't see how this is a bad thing. Can he follow up before you can drop your shield?

 

[Blank Mauser]

It would be nice if Sonic could do a move right out of his up-B instead of waiting until the peak. Would make for better recoveries and waveland canceling on platforms (lolol outdated code).

 

[izzy24]

Is the 1 line buffer code fixed yet?

 

[leafgreen386]

It would be nice if Sonic could do a move right out of his up-B instead of waiting until the peak. Would make for better recoveries and waveland canceling on platforms (lolol outdated code).

Because we really need to buff sonic, right? Sonic is looking like one of the better characters in the game right now. He doesn't need a nerf, but he certainly doesn't need a buff.

 

[kupo15]

Why are we nerfing the shield more?

Im not afraid to use my shield in brawl+ still and I was afraid in melee. We need to be afraid to put our shields since shield grabs offer a lot of reward. I still feel defense is stronger than offense right now and imo that is a problem

I've been running .05 shield regen and .05 shield damage ratio and it feels pretty good. No shield has been broken yet but I've seen them get dangerously close and stay low for a while which seemed right.

I feel like 13/22/5 shieldstun, though, is too much. Bowser's fsmash shieldstuns way too long.

Edit: Also, for the one stock one shield thing, you could set regen to 0 and damage raito to .03 or .02 to make it stronger. possibly reduce the shield loss as well a little bit.

I was trying .1 but I should try .05. I think someewhere around this setting works nicely.


I think all defensive mechanics are a little too good. Spot dodges esp are much better than melee and the air dodging is still a little too good also. I think all defensive things can be spammed too quickly and that they need a little more ending lag. No air dodging out of a tumble should help also

 

[MookieRah]

Spot dodges esp are much better than melee and the air dodging is still a little too good also.

Air dodges lose a lot of power from 1.25 down grav. As far as spot dodges, I don't have that much problem taking advantage of them, and I don't think they are overpowered.

As far as balance, I think that offense and defense is actually pretty balanced as they are now. Rolls and dodges aren't as punishable in melee, but they were not all that great in melee either. As it stands you can still punish them fairly well, so I don't see a need to nerf it. Also, in melee I never was that worried about my shield, so i don't know what you are talking about really. In Brawl my shield broke more than it did in Melee.

 

[leafgreen386]

@kupo:

Shields are nerfed to a point where you would want to use spotdodging as an alternative defensive mechanism with the addition of shieldstun, so I think that they are fine where they are now.

If people are encouraged to use spotdodges instead of shielding then that's fine by me, but I see no reason to nerf the spotdodge or the airdodge from where they are now. Yes, they are good. No, they are not broken. The spotdodge has the same duration every time. Just learn to time your attack so that it hits them as they come out of the lag (assuming they didn't spotdodge a super laggy move of your own, in which case, where's the problem here?). The airdodge has a predictable trajectory. It's certainly punishable.

Now, for stopping people from airdodging while in in a tumble... Let me just say that stopping airdodge while in a tumble will do nothing to nerf the defensive game. Do you hear me? It will do nothing. All your opponent needs to do is tap left or right on the control stick when they go into the tumble, and they will be set into their freefall position, allowing them to airdodge again. This existed in melee, too, although people didn't usually airdodge out of it since they were often too high in the air for the airdodge to be effective.

 

[shanus]

Im not afraid to use my shield in brawl+ still and I was afraid in melee. We need to be afraid to put our shields since shield grabs offer a lot of reward. I still feel defense is stronger than offense right now and imo that is a problem

I was trying .1 but I should try .05. I think someewhere around this setting works nicely.


I think all defensive mechanics are a little too good. Spot dodges esp are much better than melee and the air dodging is still a little too good also. I think all defensive things can be spammed too quickly and that they need a little more ending lag. No air dodging out of a tumble should help also

The only time I feel defense is better than offense is when I play against diddy. And that is because I am facing a wall of nanerz. I'm all for leaving the shield alone. I still use use 11/22/5 and think thats all that was required.

 

[IKOU]

especially considering that other characters still have good range on their projectiles.

Fox lost range on his laser

 

[trojanpooh]

Fox lost range on his laser

He did loose range but he still does have range. Mario's fireballs bounce like one and a half times then die.