Creation of BBR Ruleset Committee; Brawl Nationals Agree to Same Stagelist! New TO's!

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That isn't the same sense I'm reading this as, and I also worded that wrong.

More so I just see them making the ruleset, in a sense 4.0, a different way, getting more TO's involved for unity b having them work on the ruleset. They aren't removing the "freedom" you think they are.

 

[etecoon]

Also, Etecoon: Key word in your post: IN MY AREA.

Texas, Nova Scotia, other parts of Canada, parts of the midwest. It's STILL legitimate, no matter how many regions choose just to say "I don't like this."

legitimate is all a matter of opinion, but for someone that is reasonably informed you start to understand that different regions have different rules and may try other stages out in friendlies, the fact that these stages are borderline/ARE allowed in other places isn't really hidden to anyone either way

I'm a little appalled and extremely amused that AZ thinks that TOing and stage balance knowledge are even loosely correlated.

yes, have to say xyro's explanation made a lot more sense

edit: this one not the one he just posted lol

Jack, thank you!

Susa/Budget, relax and watch how this goes before you go postal on it/us.. These new rules that we are working on is coming from the TOP tournaments organizers. People who study results and keep track of what stages were pick, why they were picked and what was the outcome. We take feedback from event event and study it. Of all the people on this site, i guarantee you this power is safe with us.


Budget, remember how you obsess about ps2? If you quit posting all this garbage you have been posting(cause its getting annoying/causing un-needed drama) and IM me when you can.....you might like what you may hear from me.





AZ, i brought up the "take bbr off our name" way before this list came out. PLEASE reconsider it. Having bbr on the title is a disgraces to us and what we are doing.

 

[AlphaZealot]

It does not. Baby steps.

 

[Xyro77]

Does this stage list distinguish between Starters and Counterpicks? I couldn't find anything in the OP saying whether it did or not

read below

It does not. Baby steps.

As az just said. this new deal has just been born. more info will be released soon. remember, NOTHING we have done cannot be undone.

 

[fkacyan]

It is if u play the game and study/acquire data on the stages through TOing. Thats what he/me have done. ever been to MLG and wonder why they want to know what stage you played on with what character and at what percent and stock you lost at? its all apart of that.

And you collect this data at all the HOBO tourneys?

Can we see it?

I'd love to see the logical basis for every single stage as to why it was or wasn't included based on data and experience.

 

[Raziek]

That isn't the same sense I'm reading this as, and I also worded that wrong.

More so I just see them making the ruleset, in a sense 4.0, a different way, getting more TO's involved for unity b having them work on the ruleset. They aren't removing the "freedom" you think they are.

They're circumventing the BBR by handing the ruleset to a small subset of tournament organizers. (many of whom are not very knowledgeable about stage mechanics)

That group is going to say "These 14 stages are ok.", not "These 14 stages are standard for nationals, but these 8 are less common, but still ok."

THAT is the choice that is being taken away. No new player or TO is going to see this ruleset and think "Maybe I'll try Norfair."

Thio, they may not have one. This is Xyro's opinion on DP, which does not necessarily represent the entire group's opinion.

"Raziek91 8:20 pm
(8:20:12 PM): What about the people who want Distant planet legal, vs. those who want it banned? If you ban it, only one side is satisfied at all. The other side is ****ed. If it's legal, at least the other side can ban it.
(8:20:46 PM): (personal ban, that is)
xyro77 8:22 pm
(8:22:58 PM): You have to draw a line somewhere. what you just said could be said for 8 more stages and yet we can't have them all as CPs/starters.
(8:23:08 PM): japes/picto/ps2 are possible. DP
(8:23:10 PM): hell no
(8:23:16 PM): whether you have reasons or not
Raziek91 8:23 pm
(8:23:17 PM): Name one thing wrong with DP
xyro77 8:24 pm
(8:24:04 PM): no one wants it cept a select few.
Raziek91 8:24 pm
(8:24:13 PM): I'm done."

 

[fkacyan]

They're circumventing the BBR by handing the ruleset to a small subset of tournament organizers. (many of whom are not very knowledgeable about stage mechanics)

That group is going to say "These 14 stages are ok.", not "These 14 stages are standard for nationals, but these 8 are less common, but still ok."

THAT is the choice that is being taken away. No new player or TO is going to see this ruleset and think "Maybe I'll try Norfair."

To be fair, nobody should ever use Norfair.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Raziek why are you constantly arguing over stages when you're area has MK banned and doesn't advocate tournament play on them anyway...

 

[etecoon]

THAT is the choice that is being taken away. No new player or TO is going to see this ruleset and think "Maybe I'll try Norfair."

mmmmm

why was I opposed to this earlier?

 

[Xyro77]

I'd love to see the logical basis or every single stage as to why it was or wasn't included based on data and experience.

I didnt use any of my data to decide my stages for hobo. ive saved it for personal reasons(im really curious and it taught me alot ). I also think this is MLGs first time recording in-depth data about stages. So time will only tell if it has a huge change on the ruleset for MLG next year(IF it picks up smash again)

 

[Raziek]

Hold on Kadaj, are you saying my region doesn't like these stages?

Not everyone in my region likes every stage, but every stage has at least 2-4 people who counterpick each stage I have legal. (In an area like mine (around 30 people), that's enough to justify inclusion.)

 

[ADHD]

Hold on Kadaj, are you saying my region doesn't like these stages?

Not everyone in my region likes every stage, but every stage has at least 2-4 people who counterpick each stage I have legal. (In an area like mine (around 30 people), that's enough to justify inclusion.)

Like =/= abusing.

 

[Crow!]

The people in the BBR have no claim to the actual use of the word "BBR". That name belongs to Smashboards, and it is the site's admins choice on what to do with it.

Lol. Even if those claims are legally correct, it's still utter nonsense.

Crow!, you too? If anyone were to give in to hyperbole, I thought it'd never be you. This isn't underhanded, and you know it.

Even if you agree with the end objective, (which I personally do not; I'd much rather see each TO continue to cater to his/her own customers rather than unify rules just for unification's sake), you have to see that the way this is being done is unfair.

How about this sticky policy? As far as the community is concerned, stickies are a useful way to identify the most important tournaments in a region. If an important tournament crops up which chooses not to kowtow to whatever this committee decides is its ruleset, the sticky policy is there to prevent tournament goers from being as likely to see that tournament and go to it. But that tournament is an important tournamnent for the region, or else the changed sticky policy wouldn't have been needed! Both the players who don't go as a result and the players who still do wind up missing out. This isn't a service to the community.

Why does this project want to silence the BBR's recommended ruleset? Not to help the community, that's for sure: the BBR recommended ruleset simply provides the public with information regarding various rules, it doesn't force anything on anyone and as such its existence cannot harm tournament players or TOs. This project wants to take down the BBR ruleset simply because it's a competing ruleset.


I suppose we may be operating under different definitions of "underhanded," but when a group uses its position of power to shut down the competition rather than simply defeating it by virtue of being better than the competition, to me, that is a textbook example of being underhanded.

Also, for those who believe in capitalism, one very basic concept in economics is that any time a company tries and succeeds in getting an edge over its competitors by using anything other than supplying a better product at less of a cost, the consumers ultimately lose - I can provide an essay I presented on this which I wrote for the BBR if you're interested.

 

[Raziek]

Like =/= abusing.

Nor does it matter, and MK is banned, so the latter rarely happens anyway. One of our worst players just happens to like Yoshi's Island Melee.

Why would I take that away from him, if it has shown no problems in tournament?

I mean, you just like FD, right ADHD? Totally not abusing it at all.

 

[ADHD]

Nor does it matter, and MK is banned, so the latter rarely happens anyway. One of our worst players just happens to like Yoshi's Island Melee.

Why would I take that away from him, if it has shown no problems in tournament?

I mean, you just like FD, right ADHD? Totally not abusing it at all.

When in the last year have I ever played on FD?

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Why is it the only argument anyone can ever make against ADHD is "YOU PLAY DIDDY YOU'RE BIASED!!!!11!!"?

 

[Raziek]

Why is it the only argument anyone can ever make against ADHD is "YOU PLAY DIDDY YOU'RE BIASED!!!!11!!"?

Because that's pretty much the only argument he throws back, and I'm tired of dealing with it.

As for you, ADHD, would I be correct if I guessed that people ban it against you? I may have made a mis-step in my guess, in which case, just assume your favorite CP, and my argument still holds.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

They're circumventing the BBR by handing the ruleset to a small subset of tournament organizers. (many of whom are not very knowledgeable about stage mechanics)

That group is going to say "These 14 stages are ok.", not "These 14 stages are standard for nationals, but these 8 are less common, but still ok."

THAT is the choice that is being taken away. No new player or TO is going to see this ruleset and think "Maybe I'll try Norfair."

If they truly don't know, they should ask someone, like the BBR or someone who is familar with it.

There is no choice being taken away, they are saying that is the stage list going to be used for the next year at every national event and that they will advertise it if they follow it. People are always welcome to readd Mute City or Poke Floats, since people could do some research on the stages themselves and evaluate if they should add it or not.

 

[_Kadaj_]

You do realize those stages were on at the release of brawl and taken off shortly after for obv reasons right?

If you want an explanation as to why search archived threads of it

 

[ADHD]

I am also still kind of confused that the only people so are heavily against it are the ones that it doesn't really affect. That's always irked me from the start, especially when it's not even that strong of a topic. You've got your PS2 and pictochat..

 

[Raziek]

You do realize those stages were on at the release of brawl and taken off shortly after for obv reasons right?

If you want an explanation as to why search archived threads of it

Right, I'm going to go back to 08 and look at threads where people had no idea how Norfair's lava worked, and just said "****'s gay.". Yeah, that's a fantastic idea.

Have you actually LOOKED that far back in the stage boards? It's disgusting how un-informed people were.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Because that's pretty much the only argument he throws back, and I'm tired of dealing with it.

As for you, ADHD, would I be correct if I guessed that people ban it against you? I may have made a mis-step in my guess, in which case, just assume your favorite CP, and my argument still holds.

Oh, I get it. ADHD supports actually fighting the other player, and plays a character that's good at it. Yeah, biased.

 

[Xyro77]

K so all this arguing is not changing our mind and its promoting spam.

 

[Raziek]

If they truly don't know, they should ask someone, like the BBR or someone who is familar with it.

This isn't going to happen, because none of them CARE. They're all content to ignore the minority and ban the stage for illogical reasons.

There is no choice being taken away, they are saying that is the stage list going to be used for the next year at every national event and that they will advertise it if they follow it. People are always welcome to readd Mute City or Poke Floats, since people could do some research on the stages themselves and evaluate if they should add it or not.

Ryu, do you not see how removing the recommended ruleset is a heavy-handed change that DISCOURAGES experimentation?

ADHD, I care because there are conservative players MUCH LIKE YOU in my scene, and if the recommended ruleset is not there, they're going to point to this ruleset, say "I want this.", and then I have no means to tell them otherwise.

I'm not going to sacrifice depth because of a lot of whining, and finger pointing.

K so all this arguing is not changing our mind and its promoting spam.

If you silence dissent, all you do is prove exactly how totalitarian this is.

 

[_Kadaj_]

I am also still kind of confused that the only people so are heavily against it are the ones that it doesn't really affect. That's always irked me from the start, especially when it's not even that strong of a topic. You've got your PS2 and pictochat..

I feel exactly the same way too

 

[theunabletable]

@Saltiek: then don't sacrifice depth because of a lot of whining. Continue to experiment with stuff.

It's not like Nova Scotia effects anything lol

Raziek's just mad 'cause the majority is finally givin' him the ****
This thread's beautiful.

 

[Xyro77]

[/COLOR]
If you silence dissent, all you do is prove exactly how totalitarian this is.[/QUOTE]

im not trying to silence anybody. im just letting you know that you guys are wasting your time.

 

[Raziek]

My issue IS NOT THE UNIFICATION OF THE RULESET.

My issue is the REMOVAL OF THE THREAD THAT SAYS, "BUT YOU HAVE OPTIONS!"

If you keep the Recommended Ruleset, I don't care WHAT you do at nationals.

Removing the Recommended Ruleset thread undermines ME PERSONALLY as a TO, by removing the post that says "These are also ok." and I will fight to save it until the very end.

 

[theunabletable]

^I don't see how it matters. I don't see how something saying "These are also ok" is a REQUIREMENT for your tournaments to be run with a liberal ruleset.

You live in ****ing nova scotia, and you're the TO. What difference does it make if the BBR releases a ruleset more conservative than yours? The people in your region like your ruleset. There's nothing stopping you from running liberal rulesets, unless the majority of your people in your region dislike it, which is a completely different matter, and probably would say more about your opinions than anything.

 

[Xyro77]

btw, the ruleset is a USA thing. You are in Canada right? You dont have to follow our rules.......

please leave.

 

[Raziek]

^I don't see how it matters. I don't see how something saying "These are also ok" is a REQUIREMENT for your tournaments to be run with a liberal ruleset.

You live in ****ing nova scotia, and you're the TO. What difference does it make if the BBR releases a ruleset more conservative than yours? The people in your region like your ruleset. There's nothing stopping you from running liberal rulesets, unless the majority of your people in your region dislike it, which is a completely different matter, and probably would say more about your opinions than anything.

The issue is that there is a very vocal minority that want these stages gone, as there is in ALL regions.

The problem I face is that some of my fellow TOs are willing to bend to the wants of a few loudmouths, when they aren't really hurt by the stages being there to begin with.

@Xyro: Canada is so closely linked to the US that we are directly affected by this policy. I will NOT leave.

 

[CT Chia]

All the top TO's are together on this and the admins from two sites (AllisBrawl/Smashboards) are on board with this. As the leader of the BBR and a senator of Smashboards, as well as having worked with the other admins going as far up as the GM of Smashboards (JV), I can say with certainty that this is a new Committee of the BBR. It does not, nor would it have even been logical, to attempt to get an 70-80 person BBR to approve of the creation of a TO-only BBR (especially when the number of TO's in the BBR number under 20% of the room).

There were also less than 10 people making complaints in the BBR-at-large. Overswarm does not at all speak for everybody, most of the supporters (as usual) are silent. Those that disapprove always make the most noise, this is a general truth in life.



All the nationals were already on board with making and uniting behind the same ruleset. Most of the tournaments that this policy would effect had already agreed to use the same rules before there was even a policy about stickies/coverage being talked about.

All of them?
Not to boast or anything, but come on... I'm the Director of Tournament Production from the BBR (even though I haven't kept the main thread updated it's because it garnered next to no replies and interest and instead put my time into the creation of a new TO group to replace the old one, and put a lot of work planning it out in the Staff and BBR areas but it never got off the ground - not my fault), I hosted the first national Brawl event, have CoT5 announced for next year, have hosted the 2nd most amount of tournaments (2nd only to Xyro by a couple events), cohosted a handful of events with people like Alex Strife (cohosted VC7, VC8, and Apex 2), one of the first certified hosts on AiB, AiB tourney admin, and much more.
And the sad thing is I didn't hear a thing about this until everyone else did, and previously had no idea of it's creation, and wasn't talked to at all about this.

So yea, not all the Brawl nationals have agreed to this, and not all of the top TOs are on board with this. Would I have? Of course, I've been pushing for a unified ruleset and doing away with the "recommended" ruleset for a while now and here it is being done and with my credentials I'm surprised that it's like I wasn't even thought of.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

AlphaZealot, please do not ignore my question.

Edit: Actually, don't worry about it.

 

[Xyro77]

@Xyro: Canada is so closely linked to the US that we are directly affected by this policy. I will NOT leave.

Canada is not affected at all. You guys CHOOSE to come over here and attend our event so you will have to play by our rules. You guys have the ability to hold regional/national event.

I recommend everybody to report Razieks posts. He is stirring up drama that is not needed. This is called trolling.

 

[fkacyan]

Canada is not affected at all. You guys CHOOSE to come over here and attend our event so you will have to play by our rules. You guys have the ability to hold regional/national event.

I recommend everybody to report Razieks posts. He is stirring up drama that is not needed. This is called trolling.

Are you seriously suggesting that Canada's scene is not essentially an extension of the US one?

Xyro for master troll.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Please note:

This "BBR Ruleset committee" is not a BBR initiative. It is an AlphaZelot initiative. None of us had anything to do with this or even knew about it, much less agreed upon it.

 

[Raziek]

Canada is not affected at all. You guys CHOOSE to come over here and attend our event so you will have to play by our rules. You guys have the ability to hold regional/national event.

I recommend everybody to report Razieks posts. He is stirring up drama that is not needed. This is called trolling.

I am not "Stirring up drama." I am voicing LEGITIMATE CONCERNS, that you happen to THINK are irrelevant.

I can't believe you.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

This "BBR Ruleset committee" is not a BBR initiative. It is an AlphaZelot initiative. None of us had anything to do with this or even knew about it, much less agreed upon it.

This, absolutely.

 

[fkacyan]

I am not "Stirring up drama." I am voicing LEGITIMATE CONCERNS, that you happen to THINK are irrelevant.

I can't believe you.

He has been recorded as using "I'm Xyro so I am right" as a reason in legitimate discussion before.

 

[SuSa]

Jack, thank you!

Susa/Budget, relax and watch how this goes before you go postal on it/us..

Where did I sign on to the side against this?

If anything it should be Jack/SuSa, thank you!

Budget, relax...................




Now for the matter at hand:

BBR Ruleset Committee (Leaders of a community)
BBR Group (Collective)

I see a pretty distinct difference between the two. I again side with the former.

Both are a "BBR". One is a collective - the other is trying to form a community.

I prefer the community.