Creation of BBR Ruleset Committee; Brawl Nationals Agree to Same Stagelist! New TO's!

[DaomarIsBear]

Then why not go with the arbitrary choice which actually fulfills the function better? I mean, do you think it's a good idea for MK mains to force everyone else to go to RC or Brinstar (both pretty damn awful for almost everyone)?

I think that MK mains should have just as much liberty in CPing their opponent as anyone else in this game, and both RC and Brinstar have been proven to be exceptional CPs for various members of the cast.

edit: to your response to Tantalus, if you actually played the game BPC, most of your retorts and questions would be answered.

 

[etecoon]

I don't see picto as being that bad for MK, personally I kinda like the stage. there's probably 5 stages that have been legal all along that I'd use my ban on instead, I don't see how you throw him into the rationale for legalizing it as if it really made a difference. but I guess we'll have a better idea on that once these tournaments start happening anyway

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I think that MK mains should have just as much liberty in CPing their opponent as anyone else in this game, and both RC and Brinstar have been proven to be exceptional CPs for various members of the cast.

Uh... Yeah, I'm not advocating banning them. I'm advocating giving players 2 stage bans. There is a difference.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291947

Should explain my reasoning...

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Uh... Yeah, I'm not advocating banning them. I'm advocating giving players 2 stage bans. There is a difference.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=291947

Should explain my reasoning...

I feel like we've been here before. There's no reason to add the second ban, one has proven to be enough. Also, I think it's awesome that you write guides for TOs. How many successful smash tournaments have you organized again?

 

[WindMajor]

Just dropping in to say that I don't exactly support this, for reasons that Overswarm and BPC covered already.

-The BBR had absolutely nothing to do with this, yet, our name is all over it.
-The stage list is wrong because [insert BPC's posts here].

Also, why did you guys have to construct a brand new ruleset for this? This would've been the perfect time to implement the not-used-enough BBR 3.1 Ruleset! If that were to have happened, then I wouldn't mind having the BBR's name all over it, since it was the BBR who created the ruleset in the first place!

 

[Steam]

if you used the BBR's ruleset no one would use it :/

that's kinda standard at this point.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Nobody would use the BBR ruleset because people are stupid.

 

[fkacyan]

I'll admit I at first just read the OP, but I just went back and read the rest of the thread.

+respect for Overswarm.

 

[Overswarm]

I've been told I have a problem with authority.

AZ, take the BBR's name off this.

 

[napZzz]

Theres a reason this stage list looks pretty clean. Anyone wanna know why?

The BBR didn't contribute from what i've read in these posts

 

[fkacyan]

Theres a reason this stage list looks pretty clean. Anyone wanna know why?

The BBR didn't contribute from what i've read in these posts

The problem BBR members have with this isn't the stagelist or ruleset so much as the fact that their name is on this ridiculous, brute-force policy.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Their name was also on the previous stage list, that not everyone voted on. What's the difference?

 

[napZzz]

noone gives 2 ****s about the BBR anymore anyways, its not like they're worth anything

the bbr doesn't agree with this because it doesn't fit their ridiculous standards, so they cry and dont want their name on it. Its not even brute force

whats wrong with trying to have a simple unified ruleset? This is what the top minds have come up with, and the majority will agree with. When it comes down to it, MAJORITY RULES, even if you dont agree with whats chosen

 

[fkacyan]

noone gives 2 ****s about the BBR anymore anyways, its not like they're worth anything

the bbr doesn't agree with this because it doesn't fit their ridiculous standards, so they cry and dont want their name on it. Its not even brute force

whats wrong with trying to have a simple unified ruleset? This is what the top minds have come up with, and the majority will agree with. When it comes down to it, MAJORITY RULES, even if you dont agree with whats chosen

I don't recall the majority voting on this one.

Also:

"It's not even brute force"

Did you miss the part where tourneys can't be stickied here or featured on AiB unless they use this ruleset?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Maybe in time the BBR can earn some respect back, but yeah, for now I feel like the community is pretty much over them. Have you seen the new people they let in? Borderline randoms.

 

[napZzz]

thats not "brute force"

and if you dont get a sticky, wah? The difference isn't really major, and the chances of a tourney being stickied with our current **** is still low

I just feel like with the BBR and the wackjobs that agree with them that you can never win, NO MATTER WHAT. Theres always an answer to something no matter how stupid it is

logic/theory all day imo

 

[fkacyan]

thats not "brute force"

and if you dont get a sticky, wah? The difference isn't really major, and the chances of a tourney being stickied with our current **** is still low

I just feel like with the BBR and the wackjobs that agree with them that you can never win, NO MATTER WHAT. Theres always an answer to something no matter how stupid it is

logic/theory all day imo

You must live under a goddamn rock if you don't think this is brute force. Either that or you just don't understand the English language.

Also, I'm not a supporter of the BBR, the concept of a closed rule-making committee, or much of what they do. That doesn't make this ruleset idea any less ********.1

 

[SuSa]

How to get things done:

Get the major TO's together.
Get them to agree on one stage list. Maybe even a single ruleset.
Give incentive to use these rules and join the committee.
Everyone falls in line eventually.

Looks (sounds) and practically IS the very concept I posted about a while back called "The Community House".

You know what everyone tells TO's and such whom want to ban MK or do some other change?

"Host tournaments and do it yourself and convince others."

This is exactly what this group is doing. They're doing what should have been done years ago.

 

[Overswarm]

Their name was also on the previous stage list, that not everyone voted on. What's the difference?

They had the opportunity.

 

[SuSa]

THIS. you have um.....

the best samus. and the best rob.

And one of the top MK's in the nation.

How could you forget Havok?

 

[etecoon]

Maybe in time the BBR can earn some respect back, but yeah, for now I feel like the community is pretty much over them. Have you seen the new people they let in? Borderline randoms.

some of them aren't even borderline

the BBR is a joke but OS still has his point, why is the BBR's name on this if they had nothing to do with it? if anything you're better off not associating it with them to begin with, everyone ignores them

 

[Sage JoWii]

How to get things done:
Gabbledy Gook blah blah blah I like penis sometimes.

>_> This is actually the first time SuSa isn't being COMPLETELY lame. If him thinking he's the initiative (regardless if he is or not) will keep him docile, yay for this thread.

BPC, who lives under a rock, should fall in line.

And whoever was the one who was talking about 'brute force' when only words are used and a little not noticeable sticker? Obviously someone has a flair for the dramatics. Or is on a constant PMS.

 

[WindMajor]

Their name was also on the previous stage list, that not everyone voted on. What's the difference?

What Overswarm said. The BBR was actually given the opportunity to participate in making that one, even though not all of them took advantage of that.

This ruleset was made outside of the BBR rule, but was slapped with a BBR seal of approval on it, even though we participated as much as you did on it (Hint: we didn't participate at all).

 

[SuSa]

I'm very immature.

I don't think I'm the initiative. I just find it strange how such a large supporting base was for the CH thread, and now that it pretty much exists- there's a ****ton of protest over it.

What it comes down to:
Brawl community is immature and hates changes unless it's going to make the game easier, or benefit them in some way - or at the very least cater specifically to them.

But there isn't even a way to know if I was the initiative anyways. I can't see when this group was created. (Being a group *****, I stumbled upon it a while back, AZ has changed its description since then. )

I knew about this group nearly 2 weeks ago as seen here on AZ's wall.

 

[fkacyan]

>_> This is actually the first time SuSa isn't being COMPLETELY lame. If him thinking he's the initiative (regardless if he is or not) will keep him docile, yay for this thread.

BPC, who lives under a rock, should fall in line.

And whoever was the one who was talking about 'brute force' when only words are used and a little not noticeable sticker? Obviously someone has a flair for the dramatics. Or is on a constant PMS.

You're right, a national level tourney not getting featured on the front page of AiB clearly doesn't matter when the host has to recoup venue costs and hosting expenses.

This isn't incentivizing, this is punishing for not following.

 

[SuSa]

AFAIK all 2011 national level tourneys are in line right now... so they wouldn't get not featured on the front page of AiB.

 

[Overswarm]

That doesn't make any sense, Susa.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Oh, christ... this is the most selfish community I've ever seen. It makes me HAPPY that I haven't been posting lately. We have the opportunity to have some REAL cohesion, something that this community has been lacking since January 2008, and the opportunity to come to consensus by being REASONABLE (give and take), and you all have the BALLS to complain about it? Because it's still not 100% what you want?

**** all of you. Every single one of you who is complaining about how it's not the perfect list, about how you didn't get to vote on it, about how it's "imperialistic" or "communist". **** all of you. You should be ashamed of yourselves!

Year after year, the BBR does its best and works its hardest to try to come up with good rulesets and stagelists with the limited knowledge available to it because all of you people are too busy infighting and banning things to get anything done. And every year when they try to implement ANYTHING, you all *****, moan, and complain when its not 100% exactly what you want and throw out all of their hard work. You all ignore the hard work and passion of 80 people who love this game and this community enough to do what they do thanklessly, without pay, and at personal expense, all because you're all selfish.

And when the admins finally take a stand, finally try to do what's right and what's necessary to bring the ****ing community together for once, to make us a REAL community, instead of just some loose collection of people who happen to play the same game, YOU ALL COMPLAIN BECAUSE IT'S NOT 100% WHAT YOU WANTED.

AlphaZealot, why on EARTH are you taking all of this? I can only imagine how much effort it took to get XYRO AND THE AN TOs, of all people, to agree on conceding stages and points in the name of unity, much less bring together two of the premiere Brawl websites in a cohesive way. I can't even guess the political leaps necessary to actually implement something like this. AND TO DO IT AT PERSONAL EXPENSE FOR THE GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY, and still have people *****ing about it... It's deplorable at best, and disgusting at worst.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves, because the way you're all arguing, the way you're all bashing AZ, the way BBR members are butthurt because "they didn't have any say" when they couldn't even bring the community together... This all makes me ASHAMED to say I'm a Brawler.

I don't want to call myself a Brawl TO anymore, because I don't WANT to be a part of a community that's THIS childish, THIS selfish, and THIS petty. We don't deserve AZ, JV, AiB, and the TOs involved in this, and we don't deserve their efforts.

I'm... I'm done. This is ridiculous. You people need to ****ing grow up and start acting like a competitive community.

 

[SuSa]

Let me rephrase it for you and even quote.

You're right, a national level tourney not getting featured on the front page of AiB clearly doesn't matter when the host has to recoup venue costs and hosting expenses.

Except every national level tournament is getting featured because, currently, they are all following this stage list. {The only added requirement to getting that feature}

Meaning they either meant:
Regional level
or
Local Level


EDIT:
Wasn't really expecting a post like that from Jack. O_o

 

[DaomarIsBear]

I never thought I'd say it, but Jack Keiser pretty much wins this thread. Jeez, and I went in reading that thinking I was gonna disagree.

 

[fkacyan]

Snip

You think the way to create good cohesion in a community is to force everybody to do it your way?

You realize this is exactly the type of thing so many people were upset about in regards to banning MK, right?

 

[etecoon]

people were upset about the MK ban?

I thought we all came to our senses, realized the whole idea was crazy talk, and went out and got ice cream together?

 

[fkacyan]

Let me rephrase it for you and even quote.


Except every national level tournament is getting featured because, currently, they are all following this stage list. {The only added requirement to getting that feature}

Meaning they either meant:
Regional level
or
Local Level


EDIT:
Wasn't really expecting a post like that from Jack. O_o

and then a national pops up that doesn't follow this ruleset and they don't get featured.

Why should people be punished for using a ruleset they don't agree with?

 

[SuSa]

Because self sacrifice is needed. Think after 3 years we're all just going to magically come to an agreement with no incentive? HAH! You're funny.

Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.

Let me modify that wonderful quote a tiny bit.

Treat a community as they are, and they will remain as they are. Treat a community as they could be, and they will become what they should be.

 

[Jack Kieser]

You think the way to create good cohesion in a community is to force everybody to do it your way?

You realize this is exactly the type of thing so many people were upset about in regards to banning MK, right?

Yes, I do when it's this simple and peple have been unwilling to cover ground for almost 3 years. Again, this is a competitive community. This is NOT a democracy. This IS a dictatorship. You think the Astros actually have any say when MLB slaps down a new rule? Of COURSE not.

People have been infighting and not making ANY ground on cohesion in 3 years now. Enough is enough. These children can't come together on their own, and to be frank, the fact that the BBR list was EVER recommended, and not REQUIRED, was a MASSIVE leap of faith on their part, and something that this petty community never deserved.

So, yeah, it's time for SOMEBODY to stand up and tell these children what to do, because players and ****ty TOs are literally running the community in the ground because we can't have cohesion, because every region is running a drastically different ruleset, and because nationals become a cluster**** of people who have never played on Picto, or shouldn't have to play on Green Greens, or who never get to practice against MK, or whatever other ******** ruleset differences there end up being.

Enough is enough. If the community isn't going to grow up on its own, then AZ, JV, and the admins are going to drag it kicking and screaming into maturity, and I for one totally approve.

This is a dictatorship, damnit, and people need to open their eyes and realize that.

 

[etecoon]

why the emphasis on agreement? ever heard of agree to disagree? I mean I've ridiculed ohio repeatedly for their stage list but I never would have taken steps like this to deny them their right to do it and make AN's stagelist which I prefer the standard "use this or else" ruleset

 

[fkacyan]

Because self sacrifice is needed. Think after 3 years we're all just going to magically come to an agreement with no incentive? HAH! You're funny.

You might want to go read a dictionary. Specifically, look up:

'incentive'

and

'punishment'

Not remotely similar.

What AZ wants to do is punish people for not going along with him, as opposed to incentivizing adopting his ruleset.

 

[REL38]

Oh Jack Kieser

How I love you so

 

[Jack Kieser]

You might want to go read a dictionary. Specifically, look up:

'incentive'

and

'punishment'

Not remotely similar.

What AZ wants to do is punish people for not going along with him, as opposed to incentivizing adopting his ruleset.

That's BS and you know it. I had to pass out flyers for work on Black Friday, giving new customers a discount on services. One lady had the BALLS to tell me that I (personally) was being discriminatory because I was punishing tried-and-true customers by not offering the discount to them.

What you said is JUST AS ******** as what she said to me. If you follow the rules and agree to give a little ground in order to have community ruleset cohesion, you get to use the super-awesome tools, like stickies. If not, you still get to use all of the awesome tools, like having your own thread and having access to thousands of players to advertise to.

You can play semantics all you want, but everything is discriminatory in some way. SWF already "punished" people for not getting to national-level status by not letting THEM get stickies. Oh, but that's not a punishment, and no one would ever insinuate that it was! So, people who comply and adopt the standard ruleset for cohesion's sake get special bonuses that aren't afforded to the children that absolutely HAVE to have a 3 stage starter list or that MUST include every single stage ever.

It's not a hard concept.

 

[KageMurphy]

You might want to go read a dictionary. Specifically, look up:

'incentive'

and

'punishment'

Not remotely similar.

What AZ wants to do is punish people for not going along with him, as opposed to incentivizing adopting his ruleset.

No one is being punished, what happens to events that don't follow this ruleset which is designed to help the community as a whole? No sticky and no front page coverage on AiB? That's hardly a punishment in the long run, it just means the people who can give those perks prefer to give them to those who also support this. Using the list is an incentive to get those perks, you're acting like the event can't happen if this ruleset isn't used or a thread not using it will be insta locked, relax.