DDD Social: we livin' in smash 4

[Doc King]

you can change your Di in reaction to the situation, you know that right?

with something as slow as ddds grab release followups, you should always assume the guy is going to have perfect DI because he has nearly a second to watch you and identify which move hes going to get hit with and react accordingly

That's true and those are good points. For every character you have a lot of time to react to DI.

 

[Exdeath]

When it comes to thread takeovers Florida >>>>> Georgia.

You lucky I dont name drop them all right now. and theyll STILL probably see this and flood the place somehow anyway.

From my perspective it doesn't seem quite clear on who the best DDD player is.
Like, I think that we could all tell from Coney vs. Nick Riddle that Coney is lucky.
On the other hand, Seibrik doesn't use DDD vs Nick Riddle, but can beat ESAM (eh) /Halzy/HRNut.
Really, I've felt for some time now that Smash tournaments do not function as a true test of skill.
It's more of a question of "What makes one player better than another?" D-Torr is a good example.
Does running into a bad match-up really mean that the person who didn't is better than you?
After all, a problem with Brawl's tournament results is that they aren't consistent outside of the top ~10 players.
Brawl may just have too many dynamic aspects for true consistency and thus the shaky metagame.
And then there's the problem of over-centralized, non-confrontational strategies (e.g. planking).
By all means, though, I suppose that I'm not in a place to judge.
You all have your own opinions, don't you?

 

[∫unk]

From my perspective it doesn't seem quite clear on who the best DDD player is.
Like, I think that we could all tell from Coney vs. Nick Riddle that Coney is lucky.
On the other hand, Seibrik doesn't use DDD vs Nick Riddle, but can beat ESAM (eh) /Halzy/HRNut.
Really, I've felt for some time now that Smash tournaments do not function as a true test of skill.
It's more of a question of "What makes one player better than another?" D-Torr is a good example.
Does running into a bad match-up really mean that the person who didn't is better than you?
After all, a problem with Brawl's tournament results is that they aren't consistent outside of the top ~10 players.
Brawl may just have too many dynamic aspects for true consistency and thus the shaky metagame.
And then there's the problem of over-centralized, non-confrontational strategies (e.g. planking).
By all means, though, I suppose that I'm not in a place to judge.
You all have your own opinions, don't you?

There is no best DeDeDe player because Brawl was never competitive enough. The competition wasn't deep enough. It just doesn't make sense that I was even considered one of the better DeDeDes considering how much I practiced (almost none) or that people with such sloppy mechanics could even be successful, but that's what happens when the competition isn't deep enough and natural talent trumps effort.

Was Coney the best DeDeDe? no. The best DeDeDe never played Brawl. The second best DeDeDe never played Brawl. Why would you play Brawl over another game or activity? Seriously.

I wish, with every ounce I have, that Brawl was good. Competitively, it's not. It's terrible. Almost anyone reading this could design a game with more balance with similar complexities because you are immersed in COMPETITIVE smash. The designers of smash don't really know anything about competitive Brawl, and since there's no title similar to it, we're basically ****ed in terms of competition and this genre of game.

Honeslty, we're all losers for even believing in the competition of Brawl, and if you think the game is fun, there's definitely better designed games out there that you're not pursuing. Brawl sucks, it's old now, and that's the truth.

Sorry for being a debbie downer :/ For those that still enjoy the game.. more power to you! I hope you keep developing DeDeDe. My personal view (and has been for a while) is that this game is actually shallow, Metaknight is actually broken, but the metagame simply isn't developed enough and we didn't have enough leaders to bring this game in a positive direction.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Geez, you sound like a Street Fighter player.

 

[Doc King]

There is no best DeDeDe player because Brawl was never competitive enough. The competition wasn't deep enough. It just doesn't make sense that I was even considered one of the better DeDeDes considering how much I practiced (almost none) or that people with such sloppy mechanics could even be successful, but that's what happens when the competition isn't deep enough and natural talent trumps effort.

Was Coney the best DeDeDe? no. The best DeDeDe never played Brawl. The second best DeDeDe never played Brawl. Why would you play Brawl over another game or activity? Seriously.

I wish, with every ounce I have, that Brawl was good. Competitively, it's not. It's terrible. Almost anyone reading this could design a game with more balance with similar complexities because you are immersed in COMPETITIVE smash. The designers of smash don't really know anything about competitive Brawl, and since there's no title similar to it, we're basically ****ed in terms of competition and this genre of game.

Honeslty, we're all losers for even believing in the competition of Brawl, and if you think the game is fun, there's definitely better designed games out there that you're not pursuing. Brawl sucks, it's old now, and that's the truth.

Sorry for being a debbie downer :/ For those that still enjoy the game.. more power to you! I hope you keep developing DeDeDe. My personal view (and has been for a while) is that this game is actually shallow, Metaknight is actually broken, but the metagame simply isn't developed enough and we didn't have enough leaders to bring this game in a positive direction.

Funk, this is a very good post. I just find it sad how the game forces you to play one character and actually main that character (Meta Knight). The fact that we had to actually ban a character means a lot of Brawl's failure of competition. I think Brawl is far by the worst fighting game of all time hands down. Also, they kind of make this game very stupid where you get punished very hard just for your general machanics like you can't be too fast falling or else you will get wrecked by Pikachu and you can't be too heavy or else you will get wrecked by Dedede. I also think this is the most unbalanced game because even with mk banned, only like 8 characters will be viable.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I thought his name was "junk".

Shows what I know.

 

[Xubble]

His name IS Junk.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

In that case... lawl

 

[Doc King]

It's weird, when you look at it one way it's Junk, when you look at it another way it's Funk.

 

[Two-Ell]

When it comes to thread takeovers Florida >>>>> Georgia.

You lucky I dont name drop them all right now. and theyll STILL probably see this and flood the place somehow anyway.

xD

the funny thing is almost no one in FL name searches.

 

[shaSLAM]

im pretty sure that florida actually name searches "florida" tho

 

[OMG H4X]

Ok so I lurk a lot and I've barely posted anything besides tournament threads in the years I've had this account, so here goes nothing. What do you guys think about this idea?

I feel one of my weaknesses in my game play is getting attacked and/or grabbed when I whiff a bair and drop to the stage. I'm trying this new idea on utilizing d3s d tilt because its pretty much our fastest ground attack.

I'm working on doing a bair, DIing backwards, then buffering a pivot d tilt when I hit the ground. I'm sure there's characters that can out grab the tilt or something, but it's an idea, and hopefully will catch some people off guard and give us some space. I haven't seen this used in any videos or tourney play, is this a stupid idea? Does anyone do this on the reg?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

LOL ....yeah I'm gay. I loved Zekey's response the most though not gonna lie.

But like after doing some Thinking I'm ready to go at it with D3 again. Just had to take a break and figure out my next step. Just gotta play the character the way he needs to be played. I got this.

I think taking a good month long break really helped me get some insight into things. I KNOW the character...but I realize playing 9b style is only good fot certain situations. Wario taught me balance and a new appreciation for "safe play".

My body is ready for Round 2.

(Not gonna lie playing a smaller mobile character is hella fun though )

 

[Xubble]

I love my "safe D3." My last stock is hell for my opponent since it's hard to land something on me AND D3 doesn't die for just about forever. ^_^

As far as mobile characters go, I love Diddy. It's liberating to have a larger sphere of influence since you can cover ground a lot faster.

 

[shaSLAM]

everyone tells me that basically i should only be doing safe things with d3 and thats about it.

 

[dean.]

everyone tells me that basically i should only be doing safe things with d3 and thats about it.

I tried that last tournament and got timed out twice by an ICs player.

...I suppose I was taking it a little too far.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I use a character who doesn't have a single safe move, even on hit half the time. =P

I used Dedede at my last tournament though, and I learned that the right shoulder button is the worst button to do infinites with.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Ugh

Dedede is awful. I have an easier time playing literally ANYONE else. ****ing Ness and Samus do better.

Just ****. I'm done with Dedede for now.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm SO stoked I've gotmy passion for D3 back.

Gonna make a new thread soon. A TC project meant for myself....but might as well make it a ready accessible thing for all. Will be started tonight.

 

[shaSLAM]

so whats the best way to play d3? ive had suggested that all the smart things i do should be on the ground and i should use fox trotting to space and then everything else just be really safe.

of course my own personal predictions and mix ups come into play as you can not put these into exact words of how you should mix something up bc it depends upon your own creativity + your opponent's mind.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ewwwwwwww foxtrotting?

That just means tripping.

Just hold the shield button a lot and shield grab everything.

 

[dean.]

ewwwwwwww foxtrotting?

That just means tripping.

Just hold the shield button a lot and shield grab everything.

If only I had you watching over my matches at SummerSmash.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Why's that Dean?

Anyway, I was going to do more of this air release stuff Doc wanted me to do, but I has dentist appointment so I'll probably be in a **** mood when I get home. ^_____^;

 

[dean.]

Because you clearly have a much greater understanding of Dedede's meta-game than hopeless disciples of The King such as myself can ever wish to achieve.

In other news I went to my first OoS tournament the weekend before last. It was so much fun, I got to meet the great man Aerodrome himself <3

 

[KuroganeHammer]

And I got to meet my Dean irl.

Meeting Dean made my life complete. <3

 

[dean.]

Meeting Aero made my life (partially) complete too.

Meeting Blade made it incomplete again though.

lol@ Toki naming two of his dogs after us though.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Dean:

How's it been buddy? Haven't seen you on here in a bit. How did you perform at the tournament this weekend?

 

[shaSLAM]

i mean obviously im not just gonna fox trot for the sake of it. im gonna stand still more than i will move lol.
but when i do move i think im gonna trot cuz thats what reflex told me to do. idk.

he said to trot and get into my space and then see how people react to me standing there. and thats alot of ddd's game.
but he also may be over simplifying it because he is just salty bc he mains wario and the DDD MU is crap.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Every character has a zone around them of space that they can freely control when they're stationary. You need to find the extent of that range and stay in that optimal zone. I have personally found that I have the most advantages when I say in this zone. From there, you wait, bait or take the initiative depending on the situation. Like standing there in F-Tilt or Grab range and waiting your opponent's reaction can work pretty well. You need to think about all of your options when you're in that zone and you also have to think about them when you're in other scenarios...Like:

Let's say the below stage is FD. The O is D3 and the X is a Metaknight

X--------O
------------------------------------------------------------------

The line in between them represent's F-Tilt range and Metaknight is just outside it. Let's say you're both grounded and stationary. And let's say you have the following options: (this isn't all of them but let's just run with these for simplicity)

Stand there and wait for your opponent to react.

F-Tilt

F-Smash

Dash Grab

Back Air

Waddle Dee

You have to think about the pros and con of each one based off how safe it is and based on opponent's habits and condition.

Like F-Tilt: Pro: It's relatively safe when spaced. Con: It's the obvious decision. If the opponent sees in and Powershields it you get dash attacked/grabbed.

Waddle Dee: Pro: It's a long distance attack. Con: It's super punishable at that distance. The opponent is an MK and so the opponent has good ground speed. He could easily close in on you. He could even Tornado you on reaction and suck up the Waddle.

Just think about things like that. Take into consideration where you are in relation to your opponent...your opponent's mobility, range, airdodges, spotdodges etc. You have to actively think about these scenarios and know how to react when the time comes. Waiting and doing nothing is good sometimes if you think your opponent will react first. Just be ready. D3 has a slow moveset so you can't dawdle.

Does this make any sense?

 

[Player-3]

4god the bess

 

[dean.]

Dean:

How's it been buddy? Haven't seen you on here in a bit. How did you perform at the tournament this weekend?

What up Tech. I've just recently started uni + casual work so haven't been finding as much time for the Dedede boards. You're all cool though.

Summer's a bit of a down time for our tournaments. I placed poorly last tournament; it was my first OoS and my first with MK banned, but I have bracket johns (like compared to those who got the same seeding as me mine was really hard), however I guess these are obsticles I have to overcome. Lost to a very good ZSS player then as I mentioned got timed out by an ICs player. I had a lot of fun though, especially with a lot of the social stuff outside of the tournament. Ended up 17th out of about 40 Did great in doubles though, partner wanted to try out the anubis strategy with Lucario + G&W.

Tournament before that I did really averagely too, lost to a DK (I don't infinite btw, I'm too chill for that) and then to a pocket MK that was seriously 80% Tornado 20% dsmash and SL. It's like I feel a mix of frustration at my own skill for not overcoming tactics like this and frustration at the limitations of the character I stick to playing so stubbornly.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Argh SummerSmash was the most poorly seeded tournament I've ever seen.

I ended up placing 25th, with a combination of poor character johns (Zelda), silly mu inexperience johns (Falco vs Wolf on FD is hard), playing people who are much better than I am johns and controller johns (Couldn't pull off the Dedede infinite on DK because I forgot my grab was set to the right shoulder button).

Gah, I was very frustrated with SummerSmash in general, but meeting Dean made it worthwhile.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Double post because research:

Grab Release stuff for Doc King:

Mario: Nothing
Luigi: Nothing
Pikachu: Nothing
Kirby: Nothing
G&W: Nothing
Yoshi: Nothing
Popo: Nothing
Ness: Nothing
Olimar: Nothing
Jigglypuff: Nothing
Lucas: Nothing
Ness: Nothing
Squirtle: Dash Grab
Wario: Up-smash, ftilt, bair, fair, up air, down air, nair, Dash Grab

 

[bubbaking]

Double post because research:

Grab Release stuff for Doc King:

Mario: Nothing
Luigi: Nothing
Pikachu: Nothing
Kirby: Nothing
G&W: Nothing
Yoshi: Nothing
Popo: Nothing
Ness: Nothing
Olimar: Nothing
Jigglypuff: Nothing
Lucas: Nothing
Ness: Nothing
Squirtle: Dash Grab
Wario: Up-smash, ftilt, bair, fair, up air, down air, nair, Dash Grab

I'm pretty sure DDD gets a free dtilt off a pummel release on Lucas and Ness.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Ah, my mistake, this is air release stuff.

Doc King asked for it before and I was too lazy to directly PM him the results.

 

[Exdeath]

How did everyone miss my acrostic...

 

[Doc King]

Whoa. We have an infinite on Wario now that doesn't involve a slope.

DDD vs. Wario = +3 DDD favor

It seems like DDD has so much stuff on Wario. I'm also really happy that DDD has a chaingrab on a lightweighted character now. Maybe we should talk about how these will help our metagame. I think these will be the following:

1) We will have a better Wario matchup (It's +2 in our favor, but it's gonna probably be even more ridiculous). The best way to adapt to this is like chaingrab Wario to the edge and then keep dash grabbing him for an infinite. You can also like do an up air or a down air to bair or something at the end of a chaingrab for massive damage.

2) We will have a better Pokemon Trainer matchup. Many usually say Squirtle is the hardest for Dedede out of the three. Dedede has good edge guarding on Squirtle so the lack of a down throw chaingrab isn't gonna harm D3 really because he can just air release him to the edge. It would actually help D3 in a way because Squirtle will be so easy to kill with up tilt, while being able to get chaingrabbed to the edge. The one thing we should probably do is ban BF so those stupid platforms won't get in the way. Counterpick FD and basically any stage that doesn't have much platforms.

3) These two matchups are probably gonna help 4God a lot in tourney because he plays reflex a lot and he plays both of these characters. If we see these characters anytime, these will help.

Somebody should show 4God this. It would help him and us Dedede's with our metagames. Tech Chase, you should probably add this stuff along with Dedede's grab release infinite on Ness and the Yoshi infinite that Mariomaster got the frame data of and the Puff not being able to DI out of our down throw. Basically, things that are new to our metagame.

I'm kind of sad that we don't have anything on Olimar, but the Wario and Squirtle stuff make up for that.

 

[dean.]

Um, dashing is actually quite a vital part of dash grabbing. As in, you need to move forward. Unless something's completely passed me by we can't actually dash grab when we're standing at the ledge air releasing Wario so no infinite.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

How did everyone miss my acrostic...

Florida Bad. D:

Doc King, it's not an infinite since Dedede moves forward and none of this is new.



Edit: lawl dean

 

[ぱみゅ]

I don't think that changes the Wario MU, you can deal much more damage by simply Dash chainbrabbing. It might be useful for refreshing stuff, tho.

For Squirtle, idk, he's hard to grab and mere pummel damage is not a big deal...

Isn't it better to skid cancel grab rather than Dash Grab?