Demon Lord Ghirahim's Fabulous Horde of Stunning Features! CONFIRMED ASSIST TROPHY APPEARANCE!

[bombers14]

I wish zant would get in first

 

[Oasis_S]

God forbid if he gets in this game. That would be a slap in the face to fans who wanted Midna in. That lame cliche villain won't get in.

I wish zant would get in first

What is this, 2006?

 

[Tollhouse]

The thing that bothers me is if how skyward sword isn't nearly as artistically sophisticated as Twilight Princess. The character designs of Twilight are by far the best looking. I really hope if there's an HD zelda they use those models and hopefully make a Zelda that doesn't have a girlish face like the one in SS.

 

[AetherEch0s]

skyward sword isn't nearly as artistically sophisticated as Twilight Princess

But thats wrong.

 

[Tollhouse]

But thats wrong.

Ummm, excuse me?

 

[Oasis_S]

GRAPHICS AREN'T GOOD UNLESS THEY LOOK LIKE REAL LIFEcaps.

 

[Tollhouse]

GRAPHICS AREN'T GOOD UNLESS THEY LOOK LIKE REAL LIFEcaps.

Not necessarily. Have you seen the graphics to games like Borderlands. Those types of graphics are very unique much like Skyward Sword's. The only thing that Skyward lacks is contrast and shadows. Everything is really bright and colorful which is why it's not as artsy as it could have been. The look feels unnatural.

 

[Oasis_S]

I NEED TO BE ABLE TO SEE EVERY LITTLE TASTEBUD ON GHIRAHIM'S TONGUE OR ELSE EVERYTHING WILL LOOK LIKE ****caps.

 

[Tollhouse]

I NEED TO BE ABLE TO SEE EVERY LITTLE TASTEBUD ON GHIRAHIM'S TONGUE OR ELSE EVERYTHING WILL LOOK LIKE ****caps.

Hey maybe in ten years they'll remake SS and revamp the graphics. And possibly have Ghirahim unnecessarily stick out his tongue even more times than the original. The graphics will be utilized to their fullest at that point.

 

[Curious Villager]

The character designs of Twilight are by far the best looking.

I wouldn't really call these design's one of the "best looking" but hey, that's just my opinion... Oh and I didn't bother including that weird chicken with a human head thing because I rather prefer to forget it even existed... More power to you I guess.

 

[Tollhouse]

I wouldn't really call these design's one of the "best looking" but hey, that's just my opinion... Oh and I didn't bother including that weird chicken with a human head thing because I rather prefer to forget it even existed... More power to you I guess.

The characters themselves may not be attractive, but they are still artistic. They all have personality and are full of detail. That's what makes for a successful character.

 

[Haxeye]

God forbid if he gets in this game. That would be a slap in the face to fans who wanted Midna in. That lame cliche villain won't get in.

Say what you will but Ghirahim is by far & away one of the most characterised Zelda villains & has a much more natural moveset potential than Midna who would have to be attached to Wolf Link. And almost everything has been done before or is cliché, I like Midna but she isn't some revolutionary character, she's your typical tsundere who changes and lightens up towards the protagonist.

 

[Curious Villager]

The characters themselves may not be attractive, but they are still artistic. They all have personality and are full of detail. That's what makes for a successful character.

So now you're talking about personality, so what about Ghirahim doesn't strike you the right way in terms of personality?

 

[Haxeye]

The thing that bothers me is if how skyward sword isn't nearly as artistically sophisticated as Twilight Princess. The character designs of Twilight are by far the best looking. I really hope if there's an HD zelda they use those models and hopefully make a Zelda that doesn't have a girlish face like the one in SS.

Zelda's design was nailed perfectly in SS, she's supposed to be the childhood friend girl next door love interest and her design complimented that to the tee.

 

[Tollhouse]

Say what you will but Ghirahim is by far & away one of the most characterised Zelda villains & has a much more natural moveset potential than Midna who would have to be attached to Wolf Link. And almost everything has been done before or is cliché, I like Midna but she isn't some revolutionary character, she's your typical tsundere who changes and lightens up towards the protagonist.

What I meant for Midna was the fact that she didn't make it into brawl and then allow Ghirahim to be in ssb4; that would be slap in the face to Midna fans as he is too a one shot character. I really don't see the appeal of Ghirahim to be in smash other than because he's the main villian of the latest zelda game. But I do understand his chances are high especially if they decided to use the Skyward Sword character models. It is very possible they'd use the Zelda HD designs insteadwhich look much much better. Ghirahim could easily be redone to fit those standards though.

 

[bombers14]

What I meant for Midna was the fact that she didn't make it into brawl and then allow Ghirahim to be in ssb4; that would be slap in the face to Midna fans as he is too a one shot character. I really don't see the appeal of Ghirahim to be in smash other than because he's the main villian of the latest zelda game. But I do understand his chances are high especially if they decided to use the Skyward Sword character models. It is very possible they'd use the Zelda HD designs insteadwhich look much much better. Ghirahim could easily be redone to fit those standards though.

or they just use his original design and make him sort of a tune character

 

[SmashChu]

The thing that bothers me is if how skyward sword isn't nearly as artistically sophisticated as Twilight Princess.

What the heck does that even mean?

 

[Opossum]

Honestly, comparing Twilight Princess to Skyward Sword graphically is like comparing apples to oranges. Weren't the two supposed to contrast? They didn't outright say, "this should be compared to TP." Furthermore, comparing Ghirahim to Midna is even worse. You can't deny that Ghirahim has more potential for Smash than Midna ever did.


Not to mention, I can find an interview if you want, but one of the Zelda higher-ups stated that he "wanted Ghirahim to be likable and memorable," or something along those lines. Not to mention he's rather popular, especially in Japan. What else screams, "I want this character in Smash?"

 

[Bowserlick]

Honestly, comparing Twilight Princess to Skyward Sword graphically is like comparing apples to oranges. Weren't the two supposed to contrast? They didn't outright say, "this should be compared to TP." Furthermore, comparing Ghirahim to Midna is even worse. You can't deny that Ghirahim has more potential for Smash than Midna ever did.


Not to mention, I can find an interview if you want, but one of the Zelda higher-ups stated that he "wanted Ghirahim to be likable and memorable," or something along those lines. Not to mention he's rather popular, especially in Japan. What else screams, "I want this character in Smash?"

Nice post. I think he just needs to stick out his tongue for one of his taunts.

 

[Haxeye]

What I meant for Midna was the fact that she didn't make it into brawl and then allow Ghirahim to be in ssb4; that would be slap in the face to Midna fans as he is too a one shot character. I really don't see the appeal of Ghirahim to be in smash other than because he's the main villian of the latest zelda game. But I do understand his chances are high especially if they decided to use the Skyward Sword character models. It is very possible they'd use the Zelda HD designs insteadwhich look much much better. Ghirahim could easily be redone to fit those standards though.

As I just posted in the Groose thread I really don't see a character's reoccurence playing that large a role in Sakurai's selections especially over criteria he himself have given us; I think whether or not a character can be interesting to play as, has moveset potential and can be balanced and molded to a playstyle is much more important. The problem with Midna imo wasn't that she was a one shot but if anything it was due to her being far more of a support character for Wolf Link than a direct fighter herself, every moveset I've ever seen for her had numerous attacks that were mostly the Wolf doing the attacking.

Ghirahim on the other hand has a lot more material to draw attacks from in comparison to Midna herself.

 

[Tollhouse]

Why do people like him. What is so special about Ghirahim? He is a self-absorbed, arrogant douche, who underestimates Link a ridiculous amount of times only to get used by the real villain of the game like some pawn. If you can argue against that stare at my signature for 2 minutes and convince me why this guy should be the first one shot zelda character to make it into smash.

 

[bombers14]

Why do people like him. What is so special about Ghirahim? He is a self-absorbed, arrogant douche, who underestimates Link a ridiculous amount of times only to get used by the real villain of the game like some pawn. If you can argue against that stare at my signature for 2 minutes and convince me why this guy should be the first one shot zelda character to make it into smash.

honestly....... your kind of right he is used like a pawn kind of like zant but zant took control of all of hyrule and was a king of all the twili.

 

[Opossum]

Why do people like him. What is so special about Ghirahim? He is a self-absorbed, arrogant douche, who underestimates Link a ridiculous amount of times only to get used by the real villain of the game like some pawn. If you can argue against that stare at my signature for 2 minutes and convince me why this guy should be the first one shot zelda character to make it into smash.

Well, to start, he freely wanted to free Demise, iirc. That's not really a pawn. Also, what you listed as "negatives" are actually most of the reasons why people like him.

Also, for the convincing: he's essentially responsible for the existence of Ganondorf. Pretty important, wouldn't you say?

 

[gothrax]

Pluss we havent exactly seen the end of him he could come back? The master sword comes back? So why not ghirahim?

 

[Tollhouse]

Well, to start, he freely wanted to free Demise, iirc. That's not really a pawn. Also, what you listed as "negatives" are actually most of the reasons why people like him.

Also, for the convincing: he's essentially responsible for the existence of Ganondorf. Pretty important, wouldn't you say?

He was a pawn. When you try to free your someone without the intention of giving your life up in the end you are a pawn. And if that's why people like him so much that's fine.


For the record I was not comparing the potentials of Midna and Ghirahim. The only reason I brought up Midna was because she is too a one shot character and it'd be something to include a one shot zelda character in smash for the first time.

 

[Haxeye]

Why do people like him. What is so special about Ghirahim? He is a self-absorbed, arrogant douche, who underestimates Link a ridiculous amount of times only to get used by the real villain of the game like some pawn. If you can argue against that stare at my signature for 2 minutes and convince me why this guy should be the first one shot zelda character to make it into smash.

You answered your own question, you named a bunch of character traits that serve to give Ghirahim, well... character. The ability to convey that much character in a game with no spoken dialogue & traditionally shallow villains shouldn't go unnoticed. Ghirahim is a character who you love to hate but unlike a Tingle he actually has a plethora of attacks, has an established fighting style that not only would add to the game but also represents his arrogant & flamboyant attitude and the buster sword/zweihander he weilds also represents him losing his cool and showing his brute sadist side.

 

[Bowserlick]

He was a pawn. When you try to free your someone without the intention of giving your life up in the end you are a pawn. And if that's why people like him so much that's fine.

Ghirahim is the embodiment of a sword. He is a weapon. His quest is to free his master and be in his master's right hand (literally, as a sword.) That is what he desires. And he succeeds.

It really is fascinating if you read his speech, knowing that he is a weapon. He talks about destruction, he loathes the other sword that can best him. Ect,ect.

 

[Haxeye]

He was a pawn. When you try to free your someone without the intention of giving your life up in the end you are a pawn. And if that's why people like him so much that's fine.


For the record I was not comparing the potentials of Midna and Ghirahim. The only reason I brought up Midna was because she is too a one shot character and it'd be something to include a one shot zelda character in smash for the first time.

You clearly don't get Ghirahim, he willingly gave himself to his master while laughing, he knows he's the dark mastersword, he even says that he is a weapon. This a farcry from Zant who was used and manipulated against his will and who you only fight once throughout the game and comes off more as a Darth Vader through most of the game than a villain with lots of personality.

 

[Tollhouse]

You answered your own question, you named a bunch of character traits that serve to give Ghirahim, well... character. The ability to convey that much character in a game with no spoken dialogue & traditionally shallow villains shouldn't go unnoticed. Ghirahim is a character who you love to hate but unlike a Tingle he actually has a plethora of attacks, has an established fighting style that not only would add to the game but also represents his arrogant & flamboyant attitude and the buster sword/zweihander he weilds also represents him losing his cool and showing his brute sadist side.

I guess I did apparently... Not sure how Ghirahim would add to smash. We already have enough sword fighters. Having characters like Midna or Skullkid with abilities unique to their own kind is something smash 4 needs. Not saying those characters have potential but if they did they'd probably would've been in melee or brawl by now when they were fresh. So I'd say their chances are low. Ghirahim may as well follow the same path as them.

Ghirahim is the embodiment of a sword. He is a weapon. His quest is to free his master and be in his master's right hand (literally, as a sword.) That is what he desires. And he succeeds.

It really is fascinating if you read his speech, knowing that he is a weapon. He talks about destruction, he loathes the other sword that can best him. Ect,ect.

Being used as a tool just strengthens my point even more. That's what it means to be a pawn. He wants to be used as a tool and not be the one wielding it. Strange life goal but oh well. However this pawn thing of course isn't relevant to his chances of being on the roster.


sorry for double posting. my mistake

 

[Bowserlick]

Being used as a tool just strengthens my point even more. That's what it means to be a pawn. He wants to be used as a tool and not be the one wielding it. Strange life goal but oh well. However this pawn thing of course isn't relevant to his chances of being on the roster.

I think part of being a pawn is that you do not know that you are being used. You have to be tricked into that position. Ghirahim is a willing servant.

Ghirahim seems like he would have a more defensive style of play which differs him than most of the swordsman in Brawl.

 

[Haxeye]

I guess I did apparently... Not sure how Ghirahim would add to smash. We already have enough sword fighters. Having characters like Midna or Skullkid with abilities unique to their own kind is something smash 4 needs. Not saying those characters have potential but if they did they'd probably would've been in melee or brawl by now when they were fresh. So I'd say their chances are low. Ghirahim may as well follow the same path as them.

Another argument I hate, the "Another sword user" argument, as though every sword user fights the same. There are brutish strong swordsmen like Ike who use slow powerful chops then there are fast swordsmen like Marth who use lots of thrusts, then there's Link who does a little of both but whose strength is his projectiles. Ghirahim would differentiate himself by having flashy somewhat slow sword swings that represents his flamboyance along with ability to teleport and projectiles, he could even be allowed to transform in his all metal form and draw his zweihander. He has all sorts of moveset material.

You bring up Midna but as I said earlier she mostly was support in TP & really only fought with the fused shadow (more of a final smash than anything else) everything else would be Wolf Link and maybe that hand she materialises out of her head.

Skullkid himself also didn't do much, in reality beyond the cameo in TP it was mostly Majora's Mask that did anything in that game and that boss fight was purely the Mask.

 

[Smady]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHtO9q7s66o

Let's analyse the last of three fights against Ghirahim and count the possibilities, hm?

• Summon walls
• Summon minions
• Can create platforms
• Swordplay
• Can become a sword
• Has a heavyweight form
• Summons projectiles
• Teleportation
• Several obvious final smashes
• Has a defined [if bad] personality
• Solely based on this fight, actually has a big role in the plot

I'd say that's enough to let him have an interesting moveset, and that's from his final fight alone.

 

[Tollhouse]

I think part of being a pawn is that you do not know that you are being used. You have to be tricked into that position. Ghirahim is a willing servant.

Ghirahim seems like he would have a more defensive style of play which differs him than most of the swordsman in Brawl.

It doesn't have to be that specific. Anyone used to further the purposes of another is a pawn. Being his servant, Ghirahim understood that.


And yeah I regret mentioning the whole "swordsmen argument." You've convinced me he has potential for a good moveset but from was listed like creating platforms and summoning enemies, walls, and such; it doesn't sound doable and most importantly I don't think they are creative enough to come up with a moveset like that. Or at least I'm not convinced. I mean look at Ganondorf and his Falcon moves or the fact that Wolf has a red landmaster that doesn't even exist in the Starfox series. But hey maybe Namco can change this.

 

[Opossum]

If anything, Ghirahim's more of a sidekick or assistant than a pawn. As said before, to be a pawn, you need to be used. If Ghirahim willingly became the sword, he is not a pawn, as it was only under his own free will.

 

[Smady]

This isn't about free will. Zant wilfully serves Ganondorf. The significant difference is knowledge. Zant wrongfully thinks Ganondorf is a god. Ghirahim knows exactly what he's doing and does it regardless. This is what distinguishes a pawn from a minion.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Well, Ghirahim likes to really swing the sword and drive it down, so perhaps fencing wouldn't accurately describe it. He has the finesse and speed of a fencer however.

I've already explained the differences between the two, Zant and Ghirahim.

 

[bombers14]

someone should make a thread zant vs ghirahim so we can argue there.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

No, that can be done here, and in fact has very little to address. We've said pretty much everything about Zant vs Ghirahim as a person can hitherto.

Really enjoyed reading through all of these pages, for some reason when I made the above comment it didn't show the pages of comments that were being tossed around. Not entirely sure how Ghirahim is artistically inferior, his design is excellent, as is Zelda's. Twilight Princess, although looking more "realistic", is in areas quite bland and plain. Zelda is kind of the embodiment of that.

 

[Tollhouse]

I've just always thought of Zelda as a serious, sometimes sad, and concerned character. That describes Zelda from Oot and TP very well. The character of the Zelda in SS is obviously very different from the zeldas so far. I guess it's a matter of preference. Despite TP Zelda not being the most recent zelda she is certainly the most mature and detailed zelda yet. I just think that model is more suitable for brawl. Don't get me wrong. The art in SS is great but I'm getting a little tired of the cel-shaded zelda games. They are not the best choice for the series and they certainly shouldn't be using it consecutively.

I'd figure Sakurai would change their looks anyway like what he did with Toon Link. If Ghirahim does make it I'd bet he would be much richer in detail to match the quality of the other combatants.

 

[MelMoe]

I really need to get my hands on Skyward Sword to learn more about this fabulous newcomer