OK, that was a lot:
*post trimmed to only include the Pythag and Lore reads*
- Pythag – Contributed half a post on why he thinks self-meta is scummy, but Utopian didn’t really have much of a choice since a couple of people asked him head-on about his meta. Also seemed to bite back a little hard at Ran’s vote, then didn’t seem to directly address it (#214). Still wasn’t impressed by his #530; he talked about how he still thought Ran was scummy a lot, then voting Maven after saying that his lurking was null at worst and claimed that he was hitching his vote with Gorf (even though Gorf was voting Ran rather than Maven at the time). Strongest scum lean at the moment. It feels like he joined the wagon of someone he didn’t necessarily think was scummy, and refused to vote Ran even though he thought he was scummy (possibly to avoid the appearance of OMGUS?). He then says Ran’s probably town in #778 with no further explanation than “Ran is aggressively trying to prove that he’s town,” which is about the most null thing that comes to mind. He also pops in and out rather irregularly, and when he does pop in, he seems to just support some other person’s push rather than developing any of his own leads (like #1154, then ignoring Uto’s #1165 response (and not even mentioning Uto) in his next post (#1187, which was just saying that he liked Gorf’s last post and was looking into Rockin and Jexs)). I started to like him a little more as he started to get involved and I sorta had an idea of where his head was at D2, but his earlier offences still make me feel a little uncomfortable with his slot. Scum lean.
- Maven/Lore – I agree with Ran’s #501 on Maven. He lurks more often as scum historically, but with that said, I also haven’t played with him in quite a while. Not much for this slot until Lore came in, who seems to be mainly approaching the game with making conditional ties between people (“check into this person if this person flips scum” type of stuff). Seems kinda irritable (and has had some sorta beef with Kary and Uto from what it looks like), but introduces some interesting new views when (he/she? I’ve never met Lore before) comes in. I don’t really agree on his/her #1123 (I’d be willing to attribute Uto’s somewhat triggerhappy wagoning as a rookie move), but I thought they had some good rebuttals to Uto’s responses (like pointing out that Uto instantly said that it seems like TvT was highly suspicious). D2 Lore seems to be lowkey defending Doop before/during his wagon, which looks a little sketch in retrospect, then tries to distance Loreself (I’ll just use this until I figure out gender lol) from Doop at the start of the conspiracy post. Lore seems to have the tendency to tunnel (been after Uto since right after the little tiff with Kary), and the case for the scumteam at the start of D2 seems a little reachy. There is a world in which the line of reasoning that you state could hold true, but it’s assuming a lot and certainly not probable enough that I could would rationalize putting someone in a lynchpool for that alone. I agree that Pythag is suspicious, but I think that Lore’s not arriving at their conclusions through a pro-town mindset. Lore also landed on the wrong side of Ryker v. Uto from my PoV (although I guess hindsight is 20/20). Scum lean.
Confirmed Town:
Spak
KevinM
Marshy
Scum Read:
Pythag
Lore
(Also, I kinda hate SWF's new color selector. The old one gave a lot more options...)
Did I miss anyone?
Here he has me and Pythag as hard scum reads. Take note of both of these.
He also has himself as "confirmed town," but while clearly a joke, I dislike it any time someone does this. Personal bias on my end.
Also, the only problem that I have with my personal list at the moment is that Uto and Lore are both on the scum side of it, and I don't think their interaction is SvS. So if Lore goes toDay and is scum I'll probably believe that Uto is town, but I also think that a town!Lore could feasibly still tunnel a town!Uto (although if both of them are town, I'm REALLY off-track lol).
Some Lore discussion about my potential flip, along with my UP interaction. Here they go out of their way to account for me being a Town flip, along with saying in the last line that town!Lore could still mean scum!Utopian. Setting up for a secondary lynch.
Pythag was not mentioned in any of the posts between the large read post and this one.
I think that Lore v. Kary seems to be more of a catfight than anything else... I don't really like Lore's slot (due to reasons stated in my long read list), but Kary seems to be more out for blood than out for the truth in her interactions with Lore (#1900 & #1907 for example). I'd think that scum!Kary would keep her head better, but I haven't played with Kary in a while and don't know how temperaments (or my perception of her temperament) may have changed. Either way, I think a Lore flip wouldn't give us much useful info on Kary (and vice versa).
With all of that said, I really like Lore's re-read on FF (although I'd have to go back and re-read to make sure Lore's not cherrypicking stuff to make FF look bad). It was a fairly condensed reading that gave me a good impression of where her head's at concerning that slot.
Lore v Kary, where he more or less says that my flip wouldn't give info on Kary. Interesting. He then softens on me a bit for the FF re-read, while still giving room to backtrack or discount it with a re-read. Way too much wiggle room here.
Again, no Pythag mention yet (with multiple posts before this one) despite Pythag being in the scum read list from earlier. Not scum lean, scum read.
*talks about jtb for a bit, pruned here for brevity*
I explained it here:
But basically, I think that it's absurd for any townsperson to take a gambit like that. I was willing to partially overlook it as a rookie mistake, but part of me feels like it's just a move that a new scum decided to make, then got cold feet and backed out. Only scum and JOAT (if we have one) could possibly know the setup at this point in time, so unless Uto's the JOAT (which he already claimed he isn't), it wouldn't make an ounce of sense to risk a TvT CC. Does that make sense, or do you want me to try and figure out how to explain it from another angle?
Here he uses the gambit as an excuse to backtrack on Utopian, which goes along with the trend so far of preparing for a Utopian lynch in the event that I flip Town.
Still no Pythag.
OK, now that I look at the roster, I trust in the skill level of the players in this game enough that there's not a possible scumteam that wouldn't tell him that was a horrible idea (unless they decided that could be an excuse and expected this to be the outcome, but that's a bold assumption and I won't WIFOM all over the place lol). I'm starting to agree that Uto's claim (as idiotic as it is) was probably not a scum!Uto move.
And he almost immediately backtracks again on that when confronted. Strange.
I don't really think so. I don't buy Lore's theory introduced early toDay, and my only basis for scum!Uto was the gambit.
Oh, you're right. In that case, I'll have to go back and read your UP case in the event that you flip Town. I skimmed it the first time around and remembered liking your responses to him more than his responses to you while the two of you were interacting, but in retrospect I think his gambit is likely a noob!Town tell. Unless your case is much stronger than I recall (I'm walking back to work so I can't check), it probably wouldn't lead me to a scum!Uto conclusion at this point. I'll take another look at your case tonight to make sure, though.
Because Pythag's original question was presuming that you flip town; I was going along with a hypothetical.
Due to your earlier interactions, I'm pretty sure you v. Uto isn't SvS, so I wouldn't need to go back and check. Going back to work now; I'll answer any more questions when I get back.
And here's the string of posts that I've already called out, where he appears to mostly be accounting for town!Lore flip.
Oh, and did you catch it? I'll quote again for emphasis.
Because Pythag's original question was presuming that you flip town; I was going along with a hypothetical.
Here's his first mention of Pythag ever, since putting him down as a scum read. I will double check this again, but I'm 99% sure I'm right.
He even answers Pythag's question without hesitation or questioning, zero indication that this is a player who he has a hard scum read on.
Lore i forgot:
