Diddy's advantages over MK are exploitable on more than just FD

[Advent Lee]

unless you're Advent, in which case you have three bananas.

LoLz


MK cannot effectively Dair camp/zone a Diddy that knows what to do about it

* You can Up-B into a MK who is staying above you with Dair's. They will either take %10 from the jet pack attack or potentially take %18 if they hit you because your barrels will fly off. The Up-B is fast enough to catch a MK off guard, and most players would not expect that in the first place.

* You can also Up-Tilt a Dair camping MK (especially because Diddy's Up-Tilt has good priority) This can potentially lead into Up-Air combo's/string's. However sometimes might be hard to hit with seeing as how they would have to be quite low to get hit by it.

* Plucking bananas with Down-B is another great option. The bananas has insane priority and have a great trajectory (especially when smashed) that can disrupt many above approaches including Dair camping MK's.

* Crawl away/Run away. I rarely see Diddy's implement the crawl and sometimes just downright forget about it. The crawl makes Diddy's horizontal hurt box much smaller and allows him to move with it. If you feel that it is too slow then just run away Seriously though because unless MK is gliding his aerial momentum is not so great, so you can literally outrun MK if he is in the air.



-advent-

 

[Vyse]

MK can also pick up bananas with SH aerial attacks. Dair being the most notable.

Ah, true that

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

I would rather them ban MK. Makes winning money that much easier.

 

[Vyse]

If it was about winning money. You'd quit Diddy and take up MK >.>

lol.

EDIT:

Here's an interesting post by NinjaLink.

and oh yea if ppl didnt kno, MKs sword itself is invincible which is why it never clashes with attacks. Not sure if anyone noticed. Only attack that MK clashes with is his glide attack...and rarely if someone does a strong hit to the bottom of the tornado (marths dtilt).

Sounds gay right but theres a weakness to it. NONE of his attacks stops projectiles. Like how everyone can stop samus' missiles. He cant. He just has to block all the time. He cant stop snakes upsmash either with any attack than prolly his glide attack.


Just some info to pass out there.

And also, Stop sayin every win i had against MK was due to lack of matchup experience if i beat the same MKs over and over other than the ones at Esticle. I always beat NY mks. I only lost twice to mk since like july. I kno the strengths/weaknesses, what to bait etc. I KNO MK. I may or may not have the best record against him. Everyone makes it seem that way.

Yes due to MK alot of tourney rankings are kinda rigged because underskilled players are advancing when they arent supposed to because of the char. But at the same time most of the MK players are azz To Be honest.

If ANYTHING we should have tourneys with a temp ban for MK( couple months maybe) so the other chars can evolve their meta game. Ppl just say 'Well Fu*k it. I dont feel like learning (insert char here)! I'm just gonna use Meta Knight.' When it gets like that its kinda bad for the community as a whole. I know ALOT of ppl out there who are good and they lose to VERY scrubby players because they use MK. It shouldnt be like that. Results are very messed up due to this. Think about it. If all the MK mains use ANY other char, Most of them wont even place well. Its just due to ppl still not understanding how to fight the char.

Example. When brawl first came out, Who was the char that gave EVERYONE problems. It seemed to be Dedede. Once ppl saw that Ikki demo of the CG EVERYONE wanted to use him. Ppl didnt kno how to deal with it but now it isnt so bad. The next 'I cant beat this character' phase was Snake. 'JESUS CHRIST HIS FTILT! I CANT PASS IT! OMG! I WANNA QUIT BRAWL!' Yes i heard some ppl say that. But now ppl can deal with it due to knowing the weaknesses, what chars to pick etc. Now its MKs turn for that new phase.

This is what u have to do. Ppl think MK doesnt lag............he actually does. U just dont see it. Find openings when they whiff and hit ur shield. Know ur reach, priority(actually doesnt count being MKs attacks doesny clash) , lag of ur own moves and learn the frame data of ur char so u kno what moves are safe. Use EVERYTHING ur char has to the full extent.

Just tryin to help out. I would make a video of what/when/how to abuse meta but meh.

Anyway. I just suggest a temp ban not a permanent one to see if MK is still a prob to everyone after ppl have learned their char to the full extent.

 

[ADHD]

All I'm saying is that people are having to go back and modify a lot of these claims in order to fit the actual fact of the matter. That's fine if you have come up with a reliable way to bait aerials from a certain angle in order to improve the success ratio of barrel-countering, but that still doesn't change the fact that this is a drastically different statement than, "Rocket Barrel Blast > Shuttle Loop," which simply is not the product of barrel-countering all the time.

Other than that, I don't really deploy barrel-countering all that much. If you have other useful setups that you would like the share, pleeeeeeeease teach me. =)

I said that, maybe I was lucky but all four times in the friendlys it hit and killed him because he was at high percent lol

Anyway, I sadly believe that diddy does not/will not hold the advantage against metaknight and I no longer think its even. He's just able to handle your bananas really well, and he's got great speed. His dair camping is not always easy to get around if done correct. It's just a really stressful matchup, but no more than 40-60 against us. His gimping ability is what really kills diddy though, everything he's got in the air kills your rocket barrels and that dair offstage can be incredibly annoying--but not as lethal as d3.

Against any good/average metaknight I would say it's 60-40 in diddy's favor because none of them really know how to handle a good diddy kong, once you get to the highest levels of play metaknight can really give any diddy a hard time. Not saying diddy does bad against phenominal metaknights, its just he is at a disadvantage however I believe he does much better than any other character against meta.

You just have to be severely aggressive with getting out your bananas, JUST KEEP PLUCKING THEM even if he keeps utilizing them! If he keeps handling your nanerz, who cares just do anything to get control of them. Uthrow, etc.

Still though, I'd rather face a ton of metas than a really good olimar/wario player. Falco isn't even that bad to me because everything's clear cut, you see why you lose if you lost to a falco. With olimar and wario its a little harder to determine.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

If it was about winning money. You'd quit Diddy and take up MK >.>

lol.

EDIT:

Here's an interesting post by NinjaLink.

Then why do I win money without MK?

First month I started participating in tournies I made somewhere from 300-400 dollars with Diddy. Also, MK is my secondary to counter space animals.

 

[Vyse]

I kid Noir. I kid.

Whatever works. Works.

 

[Blistering Speed]

You Diddy's should be very thankful of what you have against MK as is. Many people would kill for an even on FD and 60:40 on most other places.

 

[Player-1]

I'm going to a tournament this weekend, I had an idea just to compare stages and try to find out EXACTLY what makes [most] diddys bad on BF and try to find out EXACTLY how to counter this. As we've said before, the biggest problem are not the platforms but how small the stage is which makes it harder to adapt to anything that throws off your momentum. Think of momentum as a car you're driving and the road your on is the change. On BF you will get a few sharp turns, as opposed to FD where there will be curves but nothing too serious.

My neutral list preference:

Final Destination
Battlefield
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Lylat Cruise.

Also, one of diddy's weak points are his lack of approaches. Unless you get REALLY creative, this is about all you have for approaches for FD you have: Bananas, Side b, and dash attack. The platforms will actually give you more angles of attack so you have more options and angles to apporach: Bananas, Side B. Dash attack, bair, fair + the other angles you have. SV only has one platform that moves, so, at times, you won't even have this option available to you + SV is somewhat of a small stage (Bigger than BF, smaller than FD) so it's like having a small FD which just limits your approaches even more than FD does (at times). This is just me though, IDK if anyone else feels the same way.

Also, my idea for the stage thing was to friendly a MK at a tournament this weekend. Get a few matches of us playing on FD, BF, and a custom stage that is about the same size as FD but with platforms, and preferably the other neutral stages. I think comparing the results of BF and a larger BF could help find out how to change playstlyes to make BF just as effective as FD or more.

 

[ADHD]

Then why do I win money without MK?

First month I started participating in tournies I made somewhere from 300-400 dollars with Diddy. Also, MK is my secondary to counter space animals.

I'm picking up MK as a secondary for Rainbow cruise and for some reason if norfair isn't banned (WHICH IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE!!!)

I'm afraid of using him against falcos though, I think i'd do better with diddy

 

[Player-1]

I'm picking up MK as a secondary for Rainbow cruise and for some reason if norfair isn't banned (WHICH IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE!!!)

I'm afraid of using him against falcos though, I think i'd do better with diddy

Diddy ***** on RC

 

[OmegaXF]

Diddy has a nice Aerial Game IMO. Using Nanners to setup BF is great. So the main floor is covered and that leaves platforms. Pressure your opponent on the ledge and rack up the damage. Once he hits the lower level of the stage he is faced with Nanners. So having a strong Aerial Game and Nanners Game will do well on BF. Same thing with SV only thing is there is one platform and so a Nanner can be on both the platform and the main stage.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

I'm picking up MK as a secondary for Rainbow cruise and for some reason if norfair isn't banned (WHICH IT SHOULD ALWAYS BE!!!)

I'm afraid of using him against falcos though, I think i'd do better with diddy

Send me an IM on AIM and I'll tell you how to gay the **** out of Falcos. Keep in mind this is experience to whatever Falcos I've played in GA.

And I agree that norfair should be banned. Along with all the levels, but the 5 neutrals. Neutrals do not give unfair advantages to your opponent. Giving someone a handicap isn't very COMPETITIVE if you ask me.

My AIM = lvemeorhtemeidc

 

[ADHD]

Send me an IM on AIM and I'll tell you how to gay the **** out of Falcos. Keep in mind this is experience to whatever Falcos I've played in GA.

And I agree that norfair should be banned. Along with all the levels, but the 5 neutrals. Neutrals do not give unfair advantages to your opponent. Giving someone a handicap isn't very COMPETITIVE if you ask me.

My AIM = lvemeorhtemeidc

I love gimping falcos with peanuts its too funny XD It's happened alot actually...

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

I love gimping falcos with peanuts its too funny XD It's happened alot actually...

I meant with MK lol, but ya that **** is funny. It's easier with bananas.

 

[NinjaLink]

I keep forgetting about this thread. I see vyse posted my 'facts' about MK.

 

[Vyse]

I think its a golden nugget of information. I never took the time to realise that about MK's sword.

 

[NinjaLink]

^^ Glad u like the info. No one else here responded to it

 

[Le_THieN]

^^ Glad u like the info. No one else here responded to it

No disrespeezy, buddy. Just for clarification on what everyone think we might be talking about, I'll re-quote it here:

and oh yea if ppl didnt kno, MKs sword itself is invincible which is why it never clashes with attacks. Not sure if anyone noticed. Only attack that MK clashes with is his glide attack...and rarely if someone does a strong hit to the bottom of the tornado (marths dtilt).

Sounds gay right but theres a weakness to it. NONE of his attacks stops projectiles. Like how everyone can stop samus' missiles. He cant. He just has to block all the time. He cant stop snakes upsmash either with any attack than prolly his glide attack.

I remember this topic being closely dissected a few months back in the tactical discussion, but it was always my understanding that Meta Knight's sword did not, contrary to this claim, have invincibility frames. This misconception was generally accepted because most of Meta Knight's move set never clang with other attacks (with the exception of the aforementioned glide attack and the dash attack); but if any of his aerials or ground attacks went head-to-head with another non-projectile attack by a character whose hurt-boxes were in no way endangered by Meta Knight's absurd range (i.e. Zero Suit Samus' Plasma Whip/Wire, D3's F-smash), those well-spaced attacks would win every time.

No matter what the ultimate conclusion was though, these observations are actually quite important to this dialogue and need to be brought back to people's attention.

 

[Advent Lee]

I never knew about MK sword never clanking. Guess I never really realized it. Always learning something new from NL ^_^

Very helpful but its still not enough for me, MK still remains one of the match-ups that I still just cant deal with...



-advent-

 

[DUB]

Here's how we make Diddy a MK counter.

Don't come up with any brilliant ideas for a month or two and he'll get banned.

 

[Vyse]

Man, there are STILL people who think Diddy is hopeless without FD, and equally as hopeless on stages with platforms.

*sigh*

 

[NinjaLink]

yea i proven that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLWmsDhpDk4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF75wDV8TbM

 

[Luigi player]

yea i proven that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLWmsDhpDk4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF75wDV8TbM

Wow. Awesome matches!! Wtf you 2 stocked M2K.. you're too good Ninjalink!

 

[ADHD]

yea i proven that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLWmsDhpDk4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF75wDV8TbM

these are going to be the hottest vids on the block. i'm gonna have to watch these, mew2king must hate diddy but nice footstool in the first match whether it was intentional or not.

 

[NinjaLink]

it was. Meta is like the 4th character that gets ***** by grab release. Since that was an aerial grab release.........yea.....GET *****!!!

 

[Vyse]

yea i proven that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLWmsDhpDk4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF75wDV8TbM

Yeah, I used your matches as evidence in the poll thread. lolz.

NL vs M2K, get it while it's hot!

EDIT:

Good **** at C3 btw. lol. Who did DSF play against you in winners?

 

[NinjaLink]

LOL

remind them i had the flu while playin these matches XD

 

[pastaboy]

man your such a solid player.
solid defense too

 

[bludhoundz]

**** you took your time on that CP. I thought you were gonna go Japes for a second.

Blew my mind when you went Smashville after receiving a punishment from M2k the game before.. and you ended up winning, wow.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I <3 NL-to good.

 

[NinjaLink]

**** you took your time on that CP. I thought you were gonna go Japes for a second.

Blew my mind when you went Smashville after receiving a punishment from M2k the game before.. and you ended up winning, wow.

i was gonna pick japes but then i realize only reason i lost on smashville cause of a bad start.

 

[BrawlBro]

Man, there are STILL people who think Diddy is hopeless without FD, and equally as hopeless on stages with platforms.

*sigh*

battlefield diddy is like the new fd diddy

 

[Vyse]

I am seriously considering starting a thread in tactical discussion telling people to stop writing off Diddy as a one stage wonder.

 

[Le_THieN]

I am seriously considering starting a thread in tactical discussion telling people to stop writing off Diddy as a one stage wonder.

d4bA (Meta Knight) vs. Le THieN (Diddy): Match #1

Not nearly as cool or flashy as NinjaLink's **** performance against M2K, nor does it capture the imagination of millions of Americans everywhere, but here are one of my many recorded matches from OH SNAP! v4.0 this past weekend. As a brief primer, d4bA is one of the most brutal Smashers from Texas (a Snake/Falco/Meta Knight counter-picking triple threat), and blew his way into their Power Rankings after only a handful of notable tournament performances (2nd Place at HOBO 10 against Stiltzskin).

Pee Es: Thank you for defending me in the tactical discussion thread, NinjaLink.

 

[NinjaLink]

No prob LT

 

[popsofctown]

so, does diddy counter MK?

 

[Vyse]

Diddy counters everyone theoretically thanks to the Single-Nana Lock Infinite.

 

[DFEAR]

Diddy counters everyone theoretically thanks to the Single-Nana Lock Infinite.

when in the situation yes :3 otherwise we have ultimate control in the ground and awesome mind games in the air. the only thing MK has on us is an extremely op tornado and super *****y hitbox/knockbacks :\ otherwise its fair game =3

 

[Vyse]

We should look at what we can exploit against MK regardless of stage, rather than looking for stage specific advantages.

Like using angled F-tilts to beat aerial approaches.