Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Shroomed]

Doc sucks I'm playing Marth. I played Lovage and couldn't do **** against fox.

Doc is fake.

 

[boss8]

once people find out how to expose doc....its GG's....

but we all now ur not droppin doc....ur gonna use him for other MU's..

 

[Frisbie]

Doc sucks I'm playing Marth. I played Lovage and couldn't do **** against fox.

Doc is fake.

:'(

 

[Max?]

Shroomed you should work on your edgeguarding.

 

[Mr.Lemon]

Doc sucks I'm playing Marth. I played Lovage and couldn't do **** against fox.

Doc is fake.

 

[Frisbie]

Doc sucks I'm playing Marth. I played Lovage and couldn't do **** against fox.

Doc is fake.

i dont think your marth would have beaten him. he didnt beat you because of character flaws; from what i could tell, it looked like he adapted to you in the last couple games. it almost seems like youre trying to make excuses to switch to marth. i could be completely wrong of course, but that's just how it seems.

also you could have done better on edgeguarding, like otg said. that could have made the difference right there.

 

[Bob Money]

Fox is docs hardest matchup imo, the right style of fox is extremely difficult to deal with. The whole point of that match up is to make docs shield small then watch him squirm. Docs spacing game is gimmicky vs fox although Dajuan you really never tried to space with bair at all. You are so good with doc i feel like you dont need to switch characters you just need to learn some character specific things as far as spacing goes. i think i can show you a couple things you can mix in your game thatd mitigate the pain a bit. next time we play ill show you some stuff. Marth is just easier to play vs fox so either way do whatever floats your boat/more comfortable with. Its hard to learn new things with doc when you are best doc and no one plays doc on the same level as you, but i generally agree that a fox of that caliber should be able to handle doc pretty easily. The amount of reads and outplaying Doc has to do to win that matchup make it a less percentage chance of winning, but it kinda balances with the amount of random gay that can happen to fox when they mess up.

 

[Violence]

Its hard to learn new things with doc when you are best doc and no one plays doc on the same level as you

This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that at least the 2nd and 3rd best Docs live relatively nearby.

*fires shots at OTG for no reason other than Norcal pride*

 

[Max?]

Violence, you're ****ing ***.

Butt* just to clarify

 

[SmashMac]

It's the element of surprise that makes the Up+B cancel OOS worth it once every set. That's about it. If you happen to catch someone in a mindgame afterwards, like reading a double jump into a fair, then that's great.

 

[Shroomed]

I know that I can still get better with Doc. I won't really quit Doc for Marth until I truly feel he's all that's holding me back.

I'm just getting frustrated because everyone's spacing and **** is getting better. And when they get better, it's more of an increase than when I get better because their character is so much better.

I'm just tired of feeling like I have to read my opponents mind to get hits in.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You're always going to need the reads in your favor if you want hits

 

[VGmasta]

Doc sucks I'm playing Marth. Doc is fake.

Wow, it's almost as if OTG hacked into Shroomed's account to post this one, lol.

once people find out how to expose doc....its GG's....

Yep.

Shroomed you should work on your edgeguarding.

Agreed.

It's the element of surprise that makes the Up+B cancel OOS worth it once every set. That's about it. If you happen to catch someone in a mindgame afterwards, like reading a double jump into a fair, then that's great.

You'll always have that ability over my Dr Mario, SmashMac. I've been refusing to destroy my move stick to practice Up-B cancels for 4 years strong now. And I haven't changed my mind about it yet, lol.

I'm just getting frustrated because everyone's spacing and **** is getting better. And when they get better, it's more of an increase than when I get better because their character is so much better.

I'm just tired of feeling like I have to read my opponents mind to get hits in.

Yeah, that goes back to what Boss and OTG have been saying about people getting good at the Doc matchup. Once people learn ways to punish all of Doc's gimmicks and wall out Doc's approaches, Doc has a hell of a time getting anything accomplished.

 

[Max?]

So much johns in this thread right now. You just gotta hit people and keep them offstage. What tactics are you losing to? Platforming camping with bairs? Spacies who can drillshine usmash?

Just **** them and stfu, or quit, or move onto a better character.

****ing scrubs

 

[Frisbie]

otg is the only person who has any spiral power in this thread

 

[Shroomed]

So much johns in this thread right now. You just gotta hit people and keep them offstage. What tactics are you losing to? Platforming camping with bairs? Spacies who can drillshine usmash?

Just **** them and stfu, or quit, or move onto a better character.

****ing scrubs

If it was so easy, you'd be doing it and having more success than I am.

ZIIIIING

 

[Max?]

I quit/am *** at this game. I also **** mad people but will never be acknowledged for it.

Watch some of my recent stream footage of me ****** PC.

 

[Shroomed]

I quit/am *** at this game. I also **** mad people but will never be acknowledged for it.

Watch some of my recent stream footage of me ****** PC.

Tournament results are way more important than friendlies.

Locals don't even count for much since everyone plays each other all the time.

Regionals/Nationals are where you truly prove yourself.

 

[poega]

So much johns in this thread right now. You just gotta hit people and keep them offstage. What tactics are you losing to? Platforming camping with bairs? Spacies who can drillshine usmash?

Just **** them and stfu, or quit, or move onto a better character.

****ing scrubs

Thank you for providing some resemblance of non-******ry in this *****. Seriously ppl we all know doc is a character for G's and g's only. Stop *****ing around and stfu.

 

[Max?]

Tournament results are way more important than friendlies.

Locals don't even count for much since everyone plays each other all the time.

Regionals/Nationals are where you truly prove yourself.

Fair point. I hope to travel to a National again in the next year once I finish a bunch of important non-smash related things and have free time again.

I'll be at Zenith tho, who is going?

Thank you for providing some resemblance of non-******ry in this *****. Seriously ppl we all know doc is a character for G's and g's only. Stop *****ing around and stfu.

I do what I can

 

[onionchowder]

Can I get some critique on my Doc? My style mostly focuses on prodding opponents with quick aerials and ground moves, rarely going for grabs that aren't pre-empted by a set-up (usually jab->grab). Recently, however, I've found that my opponents are doing a much better job of holding their shield appropriately or spacing me, and the occasional Bair or Ftilt I land doesn't lead up to much. I seem to only really land solid punishment out of a grab, which I have extreme difficulty landing if my opponent doesn't **** up. I think I have a very bad habit of Dsmashing and Bairing instead of grabbing people's shields. I also have trouble landing back on the ground, especially against Falcon's Uairs.

Also, on the topic of up-B OoS: @4:32 is pretty sick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQv8CIZH7zE

P.S. -- This vid is from a month ago. Since then, this Falcon has gotten much better at camping and spacing me with Nairs and Uairs, and all the issues I mentioned above are exacerbated. A similar trend has happened with two Fox players I play with.

 

[poega]

First of all u won both games in the series link and overall i think u played well, better than the opponent. The second game u were behind cus ur roll-ins close to edge got punished hard (as it was ys and all). Other than that I think u might have ur brain setting u up in "pill-mode" and "sex-mode" where the latter means u fullhopping around with nairs and bairs chasing ****. Not saying its all bad but maybe try to blend the modes together for less predictability. IDK overall i think u did well tho and Im not good so ****.

 

[Frisbie]

at around 1:30, you were pilling from the middle of the stage while was on a platform and he could have ran past the pill and kneed you in the face out of your jump. even though he didnt, you have to keep in mind that while pills are useful, falcons who know how to play against doc will just nair through your pill and hit you if you use them too much. also, remember to do the tornado when youre farther out cause otherwise it's really easy for your opponent to wait until it's done and hit you out of it.

 

[boss8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MVLRTi13qE

0:00-18:50 random friendlies of me vs chillin.....

i've been playing alot of brawl lately....so im jus tryna get back into the melee groove..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwWFWgCSG_w

46:55 me playing doc dittos with bigwenz.

 

[Max?]

Boss you should enter singles

 

[boss8]

i need moneys for that x__X

if i had moneys for singles that day...DoH wouldnt have got 3rd

 

[ZaXXoR]

Hey I wanted to ask, am I just slow or is it really hard to SHBAWD with the C-stick? just the distance from Y to the c stick seems to make that raising bair tough, I can land it pretty solid using "Z" for my bair though so I use that for now

 

[Frisbie]

i do it with cstick. just practice going from y to cstick as fast as you can first, and then when you see that the move is ending before you land, incorporate wavelanding

 

[ZaXXoR]

appreciate the input, will update when hands are faster

 

[Bing]

Its might not be a bad idea to try X instead of Y, I mean its not a big difference but maybe the slight change in distance would help...

 

[Frisbie]

Its might not be a bad idea to try X instead of Y, I mean its not a big difference but maybe the slight change in distance would help...

i can see doing a bair to the right being harder when using x. with a little practice with y i was able to do it consistently

 

[Max?]

Just practice

 

[Eclectic Echo]

Its might not be a bad idea to try X instead of Y, I mean its not a big difference but maybe the slight change in distance would help...

I think at times it helps depending what move or technical thing you're doing. I use Y with fox at certain times. Or I'll claw at weirdest times to make something work. I'd say it's about the results you get and what your comfortable with. Obviously. You play Doc now Bing?! :O

 

[ZaXXoR]

I think at times it helps depending what move or technical thing you're doing. I use Y with fox at certain times. Or I'll claw at weirdest times to make something work. I'd say it's about the results you get and what your comfortable with. Obviously. You play Doc now Bing?! :O

Bing doesn't have a main

 

[Eclectic Echo]

Really? I thought he maimed Fox.

 

[ZaXXoR]

It's a joke haha, he tends to play alot of the characters but yes he mains fox... just plays too much randoms sometimes

 

[odinNJ]

bing plays every character to some extent, something that i find myself doing as well.

 

[ZaXXoR]

OdinNJ how do you have over 3X my posts and u started the same month... wtf

 

[Bing]

WOO Conversation about me!

I think at times it helps depending what move or technical thing you're doing. I use Y with fox at certain times. Or I'll claw at weirdest times to make something work. I'd say it's about the results you get and what your comfortable with. Obviously. You play Doc now Bing?! :O

lol nope, I did use him as a secondary against Falco in a tournament once...

Bing doesn't have a main

LOL shuddup

Really? I thought he maimed Fox.

Mhmm My Blue Fox <3

It's a joke haha, he tends to play alot of the characters but yes he mains fox... just plays too much randoms sometimes

This is true, I've cut back quite a bit lately though(Thankfully)

bing plays every character to some extent, something that i find myself doing as well.

Yeah this is pretty true, and like I said above, I've cut back quite a bit, it was hurting my progress, though Im still not afraid to go Bowser to beat MED$'s Doc in a mm

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yo max, why is every doc so bad compared to yours?

it makes it really hard to learn to fight it