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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
otg
Smash Master
Good assessment Viers, I def agree with your ledge ideas as they have saved me/screwed me in the past. It's a bad habit for people to DI towards the stage after being thrown off by Marth, and even DJ. Both of those things are just asking you to get Fsmashed.
I'm not 100% sure on Fox being able to Uthrow->uair you. I'm pretty sure if you DI in a direction and than use Dair/Nair you can beat him out, but if you DJ immediately after the throw, he can catch you with a DJ uair. I've also DIed perfectly with a Dair and w'o a DJ and still gotten smacked out of it. There is a small window of time immediately after the throw where I believe he can FJ Uair you w'o you being able to do anything about it, but it's very hard to get correct. You can see this in specifically here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9LDl7-Vk0Y
Jman is literally just a second or too off and cannot connect those Uairs even though they should connect. This might apply to Doc as well.
Also, Fox doesn't have a lot of options from the shine on you in comparison to other characters... but it def does exist. With a perfect waveshine he can; waveshine->dash->grab or waveshine->usmash . You can probably get out of that with SDI, but some of the Fox's I play are crazy fast and will catch me with a Waveshine->usmash before I can react.
I'm not 100% sure on Fox being able to Uthrow->uair you. I'm pretty sure if you DI in a direction and than use Dair/Nair you can beat him out, but if you DJ immediately after the throw, he can catch you with a DJ uair. I've also DIed perfectly with a Dair and w'o a DJ and still gotten smacked out of it. There is a small window of time immediately after the throw where I believe he can FJ Uair you w'o you being able to do anything about it, but it's very hard to get correct. You can see this in specifically here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9LDl7-Vk0Y
Jman is literally just a second or too off and cannot connect those Uairs even though they should connect. This might apply to Doc as well.
Also, Fox doesn't have a lot of options from the shine on you in comparison to other characters... but it def does exist. With a perfect waveshine he can; waveshine->dash->grab or waveshine->usmash . You can probably get out of that with SDI, but some of the Fox's I play are crazy fast and will catch me with a Waveshine->usmash before I can react.
SpruceTengu
Smash Journeyman
Let There Be A Ma Doc Gathering.
I have never had a fox successfully up-air me through a double jump and d-air. Perhaps though the foxes I've played aren't used to the precision needed to do it, but yeah >_>
re: shine--he can do the basics, but nothing crazy, so that's something, yeah. I'll have to see about the upsmash whenever I get ot play a good fox.
re: shine--he can do the basics, but nothing crazy, so that's something, yeah. I'll have to see about the upsmash whenever I get ot play a good fox.
otg
Smash Master
Yeah, Waveshine->usmash is iffy, it's only happened to me a hand full of times, but it seems if they are fast enough out of the shine and travel the right distance they can catch you. Some input on this from a Fox might be useful.
DRD
Smash Lord
Well, the best-known doc is obviously Bob$. So, what doc is better than Bob$? Has any doc main ever done doc dittos with him?
oh yay, time to rip some **** about worthless "proving grounds."
Best doc? Doesnt matter, we dont win important ****. We win like, local tourneys and whatnot, but we barely place in major tourneys. So, honestly, who cares?
Doc dittos? Irrelevant. Dittos in large are irrelevant. They hold a little weight if you play a character where you would actually see dittos in tourney (fox, marth, sheik, peach, etc), but a ****ing doc ditto? Last week, i was || this close to having my first doc ditto in tourney ever in all of the 3/4 years i've been going to tourneys, but the guy was a doc/marth main and went marth on me.
Seriously, i dont see why people are so bent on it. I honestly would love for somebody to be a best doc, but like i said, we dont really do **** as a whole.
I mean seriously, ill put this out there right now. I will say that the best doc player right now probably is NOT a doc main. Who it is? Who knows, but i know it's not a doc main.
I mean, i sitting next to pb&j right now, telling me about DJN's adventures of jungle japes doc, and then last week I know i saw greenmario playing a lil doc at TO4. Same names you always hear, but that's kinda my point. I wouldnt be too surprised if m2k was ridiculously **** with doc. He's good with doc, just plays better characters.
>.>
Best doc? Doesnt matter, we dont win important ****. We win like, local tourneys and whatnot, but we barely place in major tourneys. So, honestly, who cares?
Doc dittos? Irrelevant. Dittos in large are irrelevant. They hold a little weight if you play a character where you would actually see dittos in tourney (fox, marth, sheik, peach, etc), but a ****ing doc ditto? Last week, i was || this close to having my first doc ditto in tourney ever in all of the 3/4 years i've been going to tourneys, but the guy was a doc/marth main and went marth on me.
Seriously, i dont see why people are so bent on it. I honestly would love for somebody to be a best doc, but like i said, we dont really do **** as a whole.
I mean seriously, ill put this out there right now. I will say that the best doc player right now probably is NOT a doc main. Who it is? Who knows, but i know it's not a doc main.
I mean, i sitting next to pb&j right now, telling me about DJN's adventures of jungle japes doc, and then last week I know i saw greenmario playing a lil doc at TO4. Same names you always hear, but that's kinda my point. I wouldnt be too surprised if m2k was ridiculously **** with doc. He's good with doc, just plays better characters.
>.>
S.R. XXVII
Smash Ace
Here he comes to **** the DAAAAAAAAY!
Desh
Smash Ace
Well what about Cyphus? Doesn't he only play D Mario, or has he moved on?
Anyways, that's sad that Doc isn't placing in major tournaments, someone needs to find some weird new **** that Doc can exploit and encourage people to play him more competitively in higher level matches.
Also, for playing Doc at high level, maybe people need to be less aggressive with him and just, hate to say it, camp the whole match. I know it doesn't work exceptionally well, but it's worth a try, no matter how boring it may be. I'm just saying that people won't really know what to expect when they see someone play a different style from the norm (in theory
)
I just don't want to see Dr. Mario become one of those character's that someone will say, "well if it's a friendly, I'll play him", but from what I've heard, it looks like it's going that way (maybe I'm wrong)
Anyways, that's sad that Doc isn't placing in major tournaments, someone needs to find some weird new **** that Doc can exploit and encourage people to play him more competitively in higher level matches.
Also, for playing Doc at high level, maybe people need to be less aggressive with him and just, hate to say it, camp the whole match. I know it doesn't work exceptionally well, but it's worth a try, no matter how boring it may be. I'm just saying that people won't really know what to expect when they see someone play a different style from the norm (in theory
)I just don't want to see Dr. Mario become one of those character's that someone will say, "well if it's a friendly, I'll play him", but from what I've heard, it looks like it's going that way (maybe I'm wrong)
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Docs win local tourneys?
Desh
Smash Ace
camping with doc doesnt work.Well what about Cyphus? Doesn't he only play D Mario, or has he moved on?
Anyways, that's sad that Doc isn't placing in major tournaments, someone needs to find some weird new **** that Doc can exploit and encourage people to play him more competitively in higher level matches.
Also, for playing Doc at high level, maybe people need to be less aggressive with him and just, hate to say it, camp the whole match. I know it doesn't work exceptionally well, but it's worth a try, no matter how boring it may be. I'm just saying that people won't really know what to expect when they see someone play a different style from the norm (in theory
I just don't want to see Dr. Mario become one of those character's that someone will say, "well if it's a friendly, I'll play him", but from what I've heard, it looks like it's going that way (maybe I'm wrong)
lol
unless theyre below him on the tier list, and in most cases, it still doesnt work.
and when it will work, it'll be in match's that dont matter against negative tier chars.
with doc just get in, grab, get them off, and gimp.
honestly it makes docs job that much easier, theres really no need for doc discussion past that, unless ur bored.
well not literally i mean, getting in is half the match with doc, so theres always room for discussion, but once u get in, do what u know will work.
S.R. XXVII
Smash Ace
How much of an advantage does Doc have against Ganon/Samus?
Oh yeah, Stos is ****. Falcon. ALL. DAI.
Oh yeah, Stos is ****. Falcon. ALL. DAI.
Camping works, to some extent--the problem is that against the people that matter, fox, falco, marth, shiek, all it doen is force them to approach. The way I see it, the first challenge is knowing when, and how to stop. Stop too late, and you get punished---stop too early, and you lose the opportunity to do anything but reset and start camping.
As I've said, I'm thinking about what not to do in punishing--namely, trying to shield-grab, or trying to throw out the first move.
As I've said, I'm thinking about what not to do in punishing--namely, trying to shield-grab, or trying to throw out the first move.
S.R. XXVII
Smash Ace
Oh I saw the Link one. It was quite entertaining. Make a Samus one, and a Ganon one.
DRD
Smash Lord
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I thought the general consensus was that Ganon / Samus were about even.
Samus because it's just a slow, horrible poking battle where her range is better and your only approaches are like Fair, pill --> Fair and shield. But in exchange your camping game is better. And you have no way to kill her other than random Fairs, whereas her Nair / F-tilt / whatever into an easy edgeguard will kill you so the matchup was about split.
And where Ganon was about the same thing only you have chain grab (I think) and kill setups from throw and he's slow and dumb dumb and gimpable.
Or has something changed?
SR28: Doc goes around even with both of them, maybe a bit advantaged against ganon, perhaps a bit disadvantaged against spamus.
Ganon--dogy prolly has a copy paste wall of text, but pretty much he's tougher than people think, but as long as you don't jump into the ownage, you should be fine.
Samus: she's a ***** to kill, due to wait, aerial movement, and inability to be gimped. Luckily, you shut down her projectile game, but that isn't much help. SHe CCs everything, so again, baiting attacks and going for grabs is best idea, as is simply outcamping her to the best of your ability,
@Stos, just spam, and make sure you don't just cape the projectiles, as then they can be tricksy. I simply went fox against my friend until I realized that I simply had to pay attention and camp/grab.
Ganon--dogy prolly has a copy paste wall of text, but pretty much he's tougher than people think, but as long as you don't jump into the ownage, you should be fine.
Samus: she's a ***** to kill, due to wait, aerial movement, and inability to be gimped. Luckily, you shut down her projectile game, but that isn't much help. SHe CCs everything, so again, baiting attacks and going for grabs is best idea, as is simply outcamping her to the best of your ability,
@Stos, just spam, and make sure you don't just cape the projectiles, as then they can be tricksy. I simply went fox against my friend until I realized that I simply had to pay attention and camp/grab.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
See, Doc has no range.
He can't really take to the offensive all that well against characters with such long limbs.
Fortunately for him, he can actually outcamp Samus. It becomes more problematic when he's fighting someone like Sheik and there are fifty needles flying at him from all sorts of sporadic directions and he has to saunter through them like a duck and then engage her in close combat with only his sexuality to protect him (and chain grabs).
He can't really take to the offensive all that well against characters with such long limbs.
Fortunately for him, he can actually outcamp Samus. It becomes more problematic when he's fighting someone like Sheik and there are fifty needles flying at him from all sorts of sporadic directions and he has to saunter through them like a duck and then engage her in close combat with only his sexuality to protect him (and chain grabs
).
Desh
Smash Ace
uuhh i talked to dogy about ganon a little bit ago
i forget mostly what we had said though lol.
basically just wait till you find an opening
grab
and ****.
but honestly its like playing in a maze of fire looking for water or something lol.
you just need to be careful cuz he can **** the crap out of u if u arent patient and keep running into his ****.
this is ONE of the match ups i'd say to play safely, and cover ur approaches with pills.
i wouldnt even recommend approaching too often unless hes slipping up.
in general just play safe, get a grab, do what you gotta do and then get that ******* off the stage,
once hes out there you can gimp him. =p
samus is a stupid ******** match up.
i dont even know what to say for that,
wait for dogy, i think he plays with a samus main (alpha) a lot.
edit: **** i type slow, 7 posts in the time it took me to type this ****.
i have mine and dogy's discussion saved somewhere, im not sure though.
aim is a confusing mother ****er
edit edit: viers why would u go fox vs samus if ur having a hard time w/ doc LOL
i swear doc has a better match up vs her D:
she ***** spacies
i forget mostly what we had said though lol.
basically just wait till you find an opening
grab
and ****.
but honestly its like playing in a maze of fire looking for water or something lol.
you just need to be careful cuz he can **** the crap out of u if u arent patient and keep running into his ****.
this is ONE of the match ups i'd say to play safely, and cover ur approaches with pills.
i wouldnt even recommend approaching too often unless hes slipping up.
in general just play safe, get a grab, do what you gotta do and then get that ******* off the stage,
once hes out there you can gimp him. =p
samus is a stupid ******** match up.
i dont even know what to say for that,
wait for dogy, i think he plays with a samus main (alpha) a lot.
edit: **** i type slow, 7 posts in the time it took me to type this ****.
i have mine and dogy's discussion saved somewhere, im not sure though.
aim is a confusing mother ****er
edit edit: viers why would u go fox vs samus if ur having a hard time w/ doc LOL
i swear doc has a better match up vs her D:
she ***** spacies
S.R. XXVII
Smash Ace
Thanks guys. Thanks a bunch.... cause I like... main Ganon/Samus.
And St. Viers, it's 27, lol.
And St. Viers, it's 27, lol.
Desh
Smash Ace
cyphus doesnt play anymore as far as i know.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
You don't play anymore as far as I know.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Saunter like a duck? I dunno what ducks do in Canada, but here in America, they waddle.See, Doc has no range.
He can't really take to the offensive all that well against characters with such long limbs.
Fortunately for him, he can actually outcamp Samus. It becomes more problematic when he's fighting someone like Sheik and there are fifty needles flying at him from all sorts of sporadic directions and he has to saunter through them like a duck and then engage her in close combat with only his sexuality to protect him (and chain grabs
Bullet Bill
Smash Master
I agree. For some reason people have the idea that if you want to see who is the better at Doctor mario you play them against each other and the winner is the better player. It doesn't rly work like that.
PB&J
Smash Hero
dogy on pb&j's account. IC3 today, SSBM is tomorrow, im probably going to enter sc4 and ggac today. But anyway, I wanted to share this clip with you, this **** is hilarious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S67uMusoB8&feature=channel_page#t=4m30s it's hilarious. Watch the whole match too, it's good stuff. $mac is going to kill me for the end though. Im out. IT'S TIME FOR MAY/CASSANDRA BABY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S67uMusoB8&feature=channel_page#t=4m30s it's hilarious. Watch the whole match too, it's good stuff. $mac is going to kill me for the end though. Im out. IT'S TIME FOR MAY/CASSANDRA BABY.
@desh: the chars I use are weird--I have a samus-specific fox, and a jiggz specific sheik. I dunno, it just works for me. Pretty much, fox can avoid samus's spam, get grabs easier, and break her CC with falling up-airs.