Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Stos]

mhm
pills are only good for edge guarding for trying to take away your opponents second jump or when your opponent is far. if your opponent is near the edge you shouldnt pill but you should, Dsmash, Ftilts, Cape or Bair.

 

[ranmaru]

True, I need to stop doing that. xD Btw stos I really like your avatar. :3 (I always choose red link <3 )

 

[KirbyKaze]

thats what i mean lol


lol at uthrow.

Uthrow Uair from a Fox doesnt work with di.

I was playing yesterday and people kept trying to Uthrow Uair me and i kept telling them that Uthrow Uair doesnt work.. after like 6 matches after they stoped doing for uthrows and they started Dthrowing me lol

Needs more B-throw.

 

[Roman.]

thats what i mean lol


lol at uthrow.

Uthrow Uair from a Fox doesnt work with di.

I was playing yesterday and people kept trying to Uthrow Uair me and i kept telling them that Uthrow Uair doesnt work.. after like 6 matches after they stoped doing for uthrows and they started Dthrowing me lol

di doesn't matter, you can always jump out

 

[Dogysamich]

Samus' grapple is a different beast, she has more tricksies. Link doesn't have a good rising hookshot or anything like that, if he's far out his only option is to dodge toward the stage and hookshot. If he's close he can vary the direction, but not enough to avoid Doc's floatyness and bair gayness. Stopping Link's hookshot is easy enough, just jump out and bair. Doc can bair something like 3 times before he needs to get back and Link can only dodge one of them (two if he's close to the stage, in which case he should be upBing to not get gimped).

Good **** on the $0.

I guess I just dont really try hard enough to stop a hookshot. I always just write it off in my head that i'll probably get hit by the hookshot as I go out, so I dont try it. Meh, maybe it's me.

Thanks.

di doesn't matter, you can always jump out

You dont always want to jump though (unless well, you see them coming), and even then, if they know it wont work, sometimes you still dont wanna do it cause you're just setting yourself up for failure.

___

On another sidenote.

Jab -> upsmash. Put it in your arsenals. It's pretty balling. I gotta go mess with some more stuff. I got some ideas watchin people playin HorriBrawl today.

 

[isthattim?]

is there a reason you can't just cape the hookshot? you can easily cape samus's grapple if you know they're gonna dodge first, why not the hookshot?

 

[Roman.]

that would mean you're already off the stage getting ready to cape them

if they see you coming, they can upb and link's upb will probably send you further off the stage and there's a stock

also usually when links hookshot they are either very far away or air-dodged away from the stage and then hookshotted so reaching them can be an issue

the timing is also a problem; links don't have to hookshot asap after the air-dodge but they can fall a little if you're right there... then again i guess you could still turn them around so they hookshot the wrong way in which case it would be hilarious

 

[isthattim?]

It is a lot less risky against samus. It IS however still hilarious when they grapple the wrong way

 

[St. Viers]

Um, To edgeguard link/samus just grabbing the ledge, and dropping down is enough most of the time. If they hookshot, falling bair, or drop to up-B, and if they up B, just b-air though it with invincibility frames. Or am I missing something?

 

[eighteenspikes]

Um, To edgeguard link/samus just grabbing the ledge, and dropping down is enough most of the time. If they hookshot, falling bair, or drop to up-B, and if they up B, just b-air though it with invincibility frames. Or am I missing something?

Looks like somebody hasn't watched Overdose

 

[SpruceTengu]

mhm
pills are only good for edge guarding for trying to take away your opponents second jump or when your opponent is far. if your opponent is near the edge you shouldnt pill but you should, Dsmash, Ftilts, Cape or Bair.

This is a pretty accurate description of what i've learned with the pill in edgeguarding. It can really help in one, slightly more obscure way, though. Depending on how mental a player you are, the pill helps you control the timing and spacing of your opponent's recovery. Even if it wont directly stop them from getting back, it can put them in a position where they have a more limited way to recover (and have only one timeframe in which to do so, because they might already be falling too far to recover) and hence changes the game's rhythm, slows it down, and puts YOU in control. I've found this works really well for setting up CF for cape edgeguards and stuff. This can end up pretty "gay", but the point is it really work and gives you a chance to get dug in real well.

 

[SpruceTengu]

Looks like somebody hasn't watched Overdose

I love you (again).

 

[eighteenspikes]

<333333 Spruce

 

[DRD]

dogy I thought you said it like DOE-GEE

Cause pb&J apologizing for saying your name wrong is confusing, I thought he said it right

 

[ranmaru]

I thought you said it like DOG- EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. xD

SOrry if I am saying it wrongs too.

Man I feel a bit better about my doc but I also feel as if though I am going to fast to approach without thinking. : <

 

[Dogysamich]

its dough-gee, but i cant even give 2 ****s if people SAY it wrong, cause it looks like doggy.

I know.

 

[JonaDiaper]

well dog+y is dawgeeee

 

[ranmaru]

Ah, Doughee, got it. ROFL HOW do I do that... I made a new im in aim and I thought it was an actual person named gotit but it was me saying got it. xDD

Gah. Doc is too good. I really wish I could play you guys so you would know how I play, I'm running out of questiosn and ****. xD

 

[#HBC | Mac]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219397
yep

 

[ranmaru]

Good stuff yo. :3

 

[Desh]

new sig =]
you likes? =D

 

[Roman.]

it's very... vacant

edit: but yeah, the google thing is funny

 

[Desh]

yeah idk it wouldnt let me show my sig =[

 

[SpruceTengu]

Sooooooooooooooo back to Doc v. Samus for a bit

My friend DPIX is coming to visit for the weekend and massive smash will abound. He has a sick Samus, and this is exciting. Though i've run up against him (and his kind... >: | **** you Freaknrican) before, aside from being really cautious with spacing and lots of tricky pill stuff, I've never really developed a consistant or structured game against samus. This isn't to say what I have been doing hasn't been working (i wouldnt be doing it anyway), but I don't have any sort of big "guiding rules" like I have with characters like fox, marth, peach, etc. Any words of wisdom from my various Doc sempai?


--pretty eyes at 18--

P.S., I may finally have a working game-capture setup. So videos may result >.>

 

[Binx]

Hey what do you guys do vs Sheik's needle spam?

 

[Desh]

its a super linear projectile, and really not hard to avoid, you can cape (if it isnt charged) it or just move around it, idk, i never find needles a problem.

 

[Roman.]

they can be a huge problem if someone knows how to use them

honestly, idk what to do

 

[Stos]

against projectiles, using your bubble sheild is actually very very vey helpful seriously.

and yeah i did say "bubble sheild" lmfao.

i learned this fighting againt Falcos.

just whats out from the Laser Laser Laser Grab appoach.

 

[Desh]

idk, when i played reno he used them a looot, and i dont get to play much sheik,
avoid'ing them is REALLY easy, imo, but if they're used well they can be a problem because theyre really good for forcing you into bad situations. light sheilding works i guess , but really just play smart, i guess tht goes without saying when you're playing sheik. but idk what else to tell you lol

 

[eighteenspikes]

Sooooooooooooooo back to Doc v. Samus for a bit

My friend DPIX is coming to visit for the weekend and massive smash will abound. He has a sick Samus, and this is exciting. Though i've run up against him (and his kind... >: | **** you Freaknrican) before, aside from being really cautious with spacing and lots of tricky pill stuff, I've never really developed a consistant or structured game against samus. This isn't to say what I have been doing hasn't been working (i wouldnt be doing it anyway), but I don't have any sort of big "guiding rules" like I have with characters like fox, marth, peach, etc. Any words of wisdom from my various Doc sempai?


--pretty eyes at 18--

P.S., I may finally have a working game-capture setup. So videos may result >.>

Well, I've got this one video vs a samus:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lccP0oKQQGo

It starts out kinda serious but then just degenerates into us doing stupid tricks and random stuff happening. He SWD's, I up-b cancel, he gets phantom fsmashed, I powershield his missiles, etc. It's a fun video.

My philosophy on samus though is that you have to kinda stop playing melee. Neither of you can really combo each other, gimp each other, or camp each other. I think it's one of the least melee matchups in melee I guess my "guiding rules" are to get under her and uair, dsmash before she can (she's gonna CC like everything else lol), don't get dsmashed, and be really patient (look for openings to kill with fair). I guess you can kinda gimp with bairs, also cape to dsmash tends to work on her up-b (it messes up her sweetspot and leaves her vulnerable). Also she can kinda gimp you by running off with her leg out, so maybe try different recovery timings to mess her up. Other than that I don't really know.

I have really limited experience against samus though so you might want to wait for more advice from others

 

[Desh]

when shes recovering(bomb jumps)
spam uber lots of pills at her,
if it hits her/her bomb, she dead. =]
i learned this from having to learn peach vs samus XD
turnips **** gimp samus

 

[SpruceTengu]

when shes recovering(bomb jumps)
spam uber lots of pills at her,
if it hits her/her bomb, she dead. =]
i learned this from having to learn peach vs samus XD
turnips **** gimp samus

WORD. I've been using that one alot against DPIX, actually. That has worked well in the past. Anything else usually ends badly.. @@

 

[Desh]

not really, i mean you could jump into a bomb, that actually works lol, as long as you're confident with making it back,
and u can bair her when shes close, the only really problem is once shes close and she has to upb =p
freaking priority

 

[ranmaru]

Oh, I tried bairing while she was using the bomb recovery and had a jump saved but the bomb messed me up. xD

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

from my little ******** theories with samus

i think u should approach with full jump double U-air

approach with F-Air
(and the word KOBE is mine yo, u guys can have any great players, but Jordan, Bird, Kobe, and Lebron are copyrighted by NorCal LOL)

b-air if they appoach (i think they dont usually)

and pill spam

to edgeguard a really good samus will grapple to where u cant drop b-air, so jus stay on the legde, let them hang till they pop up then b-air/cape

but yea thats wut i been tryin to do(idk if its the best solution but that ****s been working lol)

idk............*walks away*

Edited the u air part lol

 

[Dogysamich]

Hmm. I've been doing other things lately, and nobody's been iming me, so I get kinda distracted away from the doc boards.

>.>

____

Doc vs Samus.

I know i've typed about this twice, cause I specifically remember saying it's a Soul Calibur match twice. (I would place a witty link to some of my IC3 matches here, but only vids up are me getting ***** out of losers brackets by a Raphael. I've never SEEN a ****ing Raph, let alone a good one, so i'll let you find those if you want them.)

Anyway. Doc Samus.

First and foremost.
Projectile game. You win. Flat out. If both of you put out projectiles at the same time, you win (unless you think you have to FH pill to beat FH Double Missles, or platform cancelled misssles, then you run the risk of losing). Here's the kicker though, samus has a much much stronger mixup from her projectile than you ever will, because she can missle cancel, and you cant. So you cant write off her projectiles.

Next, contrary to what you think, unless you have a terribly bad reaction speed, you actually dont have to spam cape to stop a full charge shot. If you look for the animation, you have enough time to call most chargeshots that you could be "tricked" into. The hard ones to catch (imo) are jump shots, because I think the animation is faster (i have to check into this, im not sure. So basically, to avoid a jump shot, you have to pay attention to any time your expected to jump. So like, if samus comes down and does a missle cancel, and you jump. Yeah. Stuff like that. Ledgehop chargeshots are a real common thing to see, reason being because you cant punish for it, you can just keep yourself from not getting hit. The last place you will see a charge shot is the one place you cant do anything about, Samus okizeme (yes i still love that word). If samus calls your tech and wavedashes back, you're pretty much ****ed.

_
HMW hit everything else on the head, for the most part. B.air to keep them out, F.air when you want to go at them. I will go as far to say that if you approach and plan on hitting them on the ground, you f.air and you only f.air (or d.smash, but you have to space it well). You do anything else, you'll get CCCountered.

Your main objective is to get samus in the air and keep her there, there's not alot she can really do up there. You also want to be under her, because infront nets you BOOT!, behind gets you a Ninja Kick, and above gets you ***** by u.air (it has no fancy name).

You can punish just about everything samus does except for f.tilt and u.tilt. You can beat out an u.tilt if you call it (it's hard), but if you start seeing tilts and jabs, abort the mission.

_

Beyond that, alot of it is just spacing well and waiting. Samus cant really combo you, and you cant really combo samus. It's pretty proper to call it a brawl matchup, except edgeguarding does happen, on you.

Just whatever you do, dont come in with weak attacks, samus has no problem taking the hit just to hit you.

_____________

Sheik needles are linear. Getting hit with them actually isnt that bad. What you want to avoid is getting hit and/or blocking needles from a jump. If you get caught with needles from a jump, you're more-than-likely going to grabbed and there's nothing you can do about it. Beyond that, needles are just a real linear projectile and you just have to make sure you're not doing something that merits getting punished from a distance. It's the same thing as a falco laser, really. You try to do something like stand on the ground and throw a pill from a distance and you get called, you get punished.

______________

And as for Kobe. I'd love to let you have it HMW, but dear god everytime I go to a tourney it's like "COME ON DOGY, ONE MORE KOBE AND IT'S DONE"

Im tryin to get people to let me have the Iverson, cause i'm Iversamich, I dont care about practice, I care about the game.

 

[Desh]

the doc boards have died the last few days XP

http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=750
join <3 suppport the cause <3

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Y'know what's a fun way to edgeguard Samus? Play Samus and shoot homing missiles. They'll snipe out her bombs.

 

[SpruceTengu]

from my little ******** theories with samus

i think u should approach with full jump double U-air

approach with F-Air
(and the word KOBE is mine yo, u guys can have any great players, but Jordan, Bird, Kobe, and Lebron are copyrighted by NorCal LOL)

b-air if they appoach (i think they dont usually)

and pill spam

to edgeguard a really good samus will grapple to where u cant drop b-air, so jus stay on the legde, let them hang till they pop up then b-air/cape

but yea thats wut i been tryin to do(idk if its the best solution but that ****s been working lol)

idk............*walks away*

Edited the u air part lol

Wah, thanks Wafs. Thats al stuff I've never heard before, short of the Fair thing. I recall in watching most of my recorded matches with DPIX and 'Rican that I usually end up getting all my KO's with Fair, but they were all sort of random and not preluded by anything but alot of spacing and pills, and had originally thought that I could be doing more with it. From the sounds of it, its how others are doing it too : P. I'll DEFINITELY try the bair thing. As for the edgeguarding as you mentioned, -that's- the problem I've been having; too many patient opponents who just screw around and wait for me to mess up. xD.
As for the double up air... 0_o this i gotta see..

 

[Desh]

yeah i wasnt sure about the uair thing either, dogy showed me whats what, im gonna fool around with it tonight ^_^