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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

Blistering Speed

Blistering Speed

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*edit* completely forgot to put this in here as yet-another loose reference as to why I dont post some things on here
John Choi vs Alex Valle - SFA2 (B3 Tournament) You look up the "historical importance" of this set (i only linked to part of it) and you'll see why I (and actually, alot of people) dont go around sharing a bunch of stuff.
(there's actually alot that goes into the match, and one of the best examples of adaptaiton ever in competitive gaming)
Click to expand...

I didn't even know what I was looking at here, but it seemed really epic.

Also, though this isn't Doc specific, I saw you lightshield toggling in one of your matches, how do you do it?
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

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Blistering Speed said:
I didn't even know what I was looking at here, but it seemed really epic.

Also, though this isn't Doc specific, I saw you lightshield toggling in one of your matches, how do you do it?
Click to expand...
That match was the debute of the Valle Custom Combo. Alex Valle figured it out months before b3, and saved it all the way till grand finals vs Choi. (That's the "historical" part of it, showing why it's a good idea to keep some tricks for when you absolutely need them. People like Jwong do it ALL the time; there's a reason why he dominates anything he gives 2 ****s about).

The part about Choi is that his adaptation skill is SO good, he figured out the mechanics to the Valle CC and was able to do it back to Valle by the end of the set.

(For anybody who cares, the Valle CC is a mechanic where once you activate a custom combo, if your opponent is not blocking low, you can do a c.shortkick and they cant block it. This gives you unblockable CCs.)

________

Shield toggling. Hold A, toggle between R (or L) and Z. I actually do it quite often, it's hard to see on video. No real point for how I do it, but I know people used to (might still do) use it to screw up aerial timing (as opposed to holding their shield up).

I was messin around this week and actually managed to be able to shieldtoggle out of a wavedash now. So yeah. :D
Desh! said:
*believes im the one who pointed out the edge gaurds*

itsk,
im much more facepalm worthy <3
Click to expand...
It was a few people actually.

Yeah, got bored today and took some "stats" of how often I missed edgeguards, where I missed them, etc etc.

Holy **** I blow at edgeguarding. XD

Then for kicks, rouletted a pro to see how well they did. ****ing landed m2k. Man that **** was funny. Watched like... 2 matches? (Got side tracked by going to my friends house for **** Hunter 5).

Out of those 2 matches I watched, M2k "failed" 2 edgeguards. All of those came from 1 match, second match he didtn even get a chance to edgeguard (he lost). Pretty interesting find.

So yeah, Im gunna **** around with that some more when I go to this tourney 2morrow.


 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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Wait... what? I shield toggle by holding A and R and then hitting Z when I want the lightshield, letting go when I want the fullshield.
 
St. Viers

St. Viers

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^^that's what dogy said XD

also, my edgeguarding blows, but it's getting better. Super leet training (ish) for the win.
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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CC dtilt. Notice how he gets upset every time someone says dtilt is useful. He's hiding it from us!

Also both of them have CC. Coincidence?!
 
Moon of the Strawberries

Moon of the Strawberries

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metashinryu said:
man i have a question:what advantages has dr mario against mario?(besides the incredibly bigger knockbak of hid fsmash)
Click to expand...
From what I can remember his neutral B is a bit more effective and he's a bit heavier. I also think his recovery is easier too, but then again I haven't played in a while. All I really know is that I prefer Doc.
 
eighteenspikes

eighteenspikes

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no marios recovery is waaaay easier (ptp takes less presses and cape gives you height). marios up b trajectory is more horizontal, docs more vertical. his bair, usmash, utilt, and uairs are better, but docs dsmash, fsmash, fair, nair,and pill more than make up for it IMO. also doc has magnet hands :love:
 
Desh

Desh

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i ****ing hate PTP.
with passion.
retreat shbawl is win vs falcon.
especially if you can consistantly pwl.
just throwing that out there.
 
Dogysamich

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metashinryu said:
man i have a question:what advantages has dr mario against mario?(besides the incredibly bigger knockbak of hid fsmash)
Click to expand...
THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS IN HERE RATHER THAN MAKING A THREAD AND EVOKING MY WRATH!
Moon of the Strawberries said:
From what I can remember his neutral B is a bit more effective and he's a bit heavier. I also think his recovery is easier too, but then again I haven't played in a while. All I really know is that I prefer Doc.
Click to expand...
They're both the same weight.

eighteenspikes said:
no marios recovery is waaaay easier (ptp takes less presses and cape gives you height). marios up b trajectory is more horizontal, docs more vertical. his bair, usmash, utilt, and uairs are better, but docs dsmash, fsmash, fair, nair,and pill more than make up for it IMO. also doc has magnet hands :love:
Click to expand...
Yeah, mario's recovery is better than docs, by leaps and bounds (because of capelift -> capestall, walljump, up+b glitch, and a farther up+b).

Mario's aerials in general are better because they have less landing and l cancel lag. They're not specifically "Better" than doc's, it comes down to preference. Mario's are easier to better for combos (less knockback).

Doc's d.smash is flat out better than mario's. That's it for ground moves. The rest come to preference. Doc's f.smash is stronger, but mario's.... reaches people. I'd honestly rather have mario's. Mario's upsmash doesnt have the ******** as "double standard" that doc's does. Mario's u.tilt ALWAYS sends people up, great for combos; doc's sends people out, awesome for edgeguarding. F.tilts are pretty much the same. Mario's jab combo is faster while doc's has more knockback.

Projectiles we talked about, tornados are the same, super punches we talked about.

Capes. Doc's cape stalls him on the first cape, makes him fall on every one afterwards. Mario's cape gives him lift on the first one, stalls him on the second one, makes him fall beyond that. Because of that, with a "fresh" cape, doc can immediately SH capedash, where as Mario can do SH capeaerials, or SH Cape-capedash. Mario's cape is better for recovery, but doc's is better for mobility.

Doc can kill off of his grab, mario cant. That's a flat out advantage.

Mario can edgeguard better than doc, though (because mario can cover a wider range).

... yeah. I dont lie when I say picking between Doc and Mario is really preference.

___________

Speaking of comboing, greenmario showed up at the tourney I was at yesterday.

Lost to him first round (took a game and then my playing went to ****. All my fault because i think "warming up my hands with falco" is a good idea. *rolls eyes* what scrub logic)

But I watched him play alot yesterday, cause I stand by my firm belief that you can learn just as much from a Mario that you can from a Doc. Good lord he's pretty smart. And yeah, I figured out his trick to u.air juggling. It's pretty simple, and generic advice. Yeah you follow up on somebody, and if you can hit them you hit them, but heaven forbid if they're dumb enough to double jump.

Greenmario also busted out his GreenDoctorMario. OOOOOHHHHHWWWWWWWEEEEE. XD I keep telling people who, for some odd reason, give a **** about it "The best Doc player is NOT a doc main." Green mario ***** some *****s with doc. He plays doc and mario the same anyways, so he's allowed to do it.

OOOHHHWWWEEE!!
 
Vulcan55

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How does Mario edge guard better?
I saw a video of Eggz' Mario, and he did, like, 15 BAirs to this Ganon, only to kill him with a FSmash from the stage. (The only reason he died was because he barely missed the ledge. He almost recovered)

It seems to me that 2-3 BAirs with Doc, plus a safe recovery would be "better".
 
otg

otg

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It really is personal preference when it comes between the two, all I'm saying though, is Doc gets to $ shot people and can KO at 0% because of it. wtf Does mario have? A cape that doesn't hit below the lip of the stage? Lame.

Also, I would say that Doc's utilt is highly underrated and is great to throw out after an aerial. Doesn't matter that it sends people at an odd angle, that's not why I use it. It's more of a, get the **** away from me kinda deal, and it's great for that.
 
St. Viers

St. Viers

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elvenarrow--no, they aren't. They have less lag. Doesn't mean they come out faster. Be specific.

Also, let's not get into 1 line arguments over this. I prefer doc, but doesn't mean that I think doc is better.
 
Dogysamich

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Vulcan55 said:
How does Mario edge guard better?
I saw a video of Eggz' Mario, and he did, like, 15 BAirs to this Ganon, only to kill him with a FSmash from the stage. (The only reason he died was because he barely missed the ledge. He almost recovered)

It seems to me that 2-3 BAirs with Doc, plus a safe recovery would be "better".
Click to expand...
sounds like eggz using the weak bair. Mario can cover more range that doc, and his bair is not THAT much weaker (if it's weaker at all, i actually dont think it is but i've never tested it).

But flat out, mario can cover more range than doc to edgeguard.
otg said:
It really is personal preference when it comes between the two, all I'm saying though, is Doc gets to $ shot people and can KO at 0% because of it. wtf Does mario have? A cape that doesn't hit below the lip of the stage? Lame.
Click to expand...
No, but mario can actually jump low, do ****, and come back in more ways than one (up+b glitch, capelift, walljump, etc). Doc cant chase somebody as far down. I mean, he CAN go down and do the same stuff as mario, but he cant come as far up. So yeah, having a cape that reaches over the ledge. -twirls finger-. Preference.
Blistering Speed said:
They won't be even once we know Dogy's Valle CC's *glares at his secrecy*.
Click to expand...
it's really hilarious. I mean I do have some dumb tricks here and there that work, and I know why they work. But alot of the ideas I get is just thinking outside the box and it works. Some of the stuff has actually been around, just nobody uses it.

Like the capfal edgeguard that i figured out doc can do last week. I call it the superman (or the e.honda headbutt). Reverse b.air to u.air (same as capfal's weak knee -> u.air). Why would somebody even think to try that in the first place, but it works.

*laughs* just think outside the box. I can safely say i dont have anything that's "really" crazy.
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

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if you call killing people at 150+% on most stages "killing from a throw". lawl.

Doc can still do the same.

___

That's like saying marth can kill from his throw... by throwing people off the top.
 
otg

otg

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We all know Doc is the king of this game, he's obviously the richest of all the characters. Peach doesn't have any $$ yet cause daddy hasn't died yet, and Bowser and Ganondorf are ****ed cause of the recession. Always have a need for Doctors, and of course, $$ is all that matters.
 
St. Viers

St. Viers

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heh, iirc, I mentioned some time ago using the b-air in the way dogy stated. I feel so pro >_> (and yeah, I still do it from time to time)
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

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i wouldnt doubt it.

Alot of times when i get "crazy ideas", i can usually go find some old doc/mario that's done it before. It's just nobody ever catches onto it.

Ah well.
 
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