Donate for melee at evo 2013!!

[Jiv]

I the possibility is highly unlikely, why even talk about it?

 

[JPOBS]

And that's just deceptive for the communities involved. It's giving people false hope. I have already said that's exactly why they are doing this but it doesn't make it fair.

Means don't justify the end. And it's been said a million times but apparently it needs to be said again.

Breast Cancer research already gets a ton of donations. As in billions. Literally billions. There are countless other charities (many of which are in more dire immediate need) that aren't nearly as fortunate.

People have the right to know how much is being donated (as most charity drives will tell you anyway) and should also have the option to donate to more needy charities.

And once again this is the best case scenario. Right now there is NO protection from fraud as Clowsui said. We have no way of knowing how much money is being donated and as a result, where it's going. That doesn't mean "ZOMG U CONZIPERACY THEORIZT WACKO" we are simply saying it's a possibility. Do you wear seatbelts because you expect to crash everyday? Same idea here, it's just assurance.

Neither of those points highlighted is a legitimate defenses. Sure the charity itself could be set up differently, but that has jack **** to do with the current debate, and you know it.

If its a problem of fraud, fine. But don't pretend you really give a damn who the money is going to, that's just being intellectually dishonest.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

Did you not see the part of my post where I acknowledged that this possibility was highly unlikely?

I am trying my hardest to be civil here. I'd be very appreciative if you could do the same.

I'd be willing to be more civil if posters like you and zmx would be willing to stop with the conspiracy theories and boogeyman nonsense.

 

[clowsui]

@Jiv Freakonomics says that more people die per capita from drowning in swimming pools than gun related crimes yet there seems to be quite a lot more focus on gun stuff

@HKS I am not trying to discourage anyone from donating; in fact, I'm all for donating IN SPITE of this potential shadiness. I just want to encourage people to demand an answer with respect to a legitimate issue as they're donating. Whether or not they choose for this issue to stop their donation is up to them, I just want to point out that it's not entirely unreasonable or irrational to seek answers.

 

[Anth0ny]

I think that something that a lot of people seem to be overlooking when they say things like " why spend money on Evo and not get in when we could just put that money towards apex/genesis/whatever?" is what would that accomplish in expanding the scene? Those tournaments are going to be about the same size regardless of how much money is thrown at them; that is to say, they aren't going to magically break 400-500 if we put money towards them. However, if we do manage to get to Evo we would certainly be exposing new players to Melee and, in doing so, actually growing the scene by potentially bringing in newer players, and also, potentially getting older players interested again by allowing for a new experience.

I wonder which will raise more money:

"The biggest fighting game tournament of the year, that draws over 100,000 viewers each year, is doing a charity drive. One of the games on the list is Super Smash Bros Melee, which sold close to 10 million copies and is regarded as a classic video game"

vs.

"The Melee community wants to make a pot of money and run a huge tournament"

....

As I've mentioned before, I personally know people who aren't competitive Smash players who want to donate to Melee. you think those 6000+ people who voted on the facebook page are part of "the community"? Smash has supporters that aren't necessarily on Smashboards. they would not donate to some random tournament organizer...

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

@HKS I am not trying to discourage anyone from donating; in fact, I'm all for donating IN SPITE of this potential shadiness. I just want to encourage people to demand an answer with respect to a legitimate issue as they're donating. Whether or not they choose for this issue to stop their donation is up to them, I just want to point out that it's not entirely unreasonable or irrational to seek answers.

Stealing funds that would go to a charity is a legitimate legal issue, one that Wizard and the Cannon brothers are most certainly NOT willing to risk. As I said, they've been doing this for more than a decade, and assuming that they would be willing to throw it all away for such a petty issue is bordering on insanity.

 

[clowsui]

They don't have to steal it, they just have to claim a tax break on it >___>

 

[trash?]

One last post: I take anything I said about the MLP fighting game back. At this point, as much as my bitterness of bronies is, they've already got their community together. That's a lot more than I'm willing to right now about this community. This absolute disconnect and entitlement needs to stop, if any of you want to go anywhere.

 

[JPOBS]

I'm baffled by your naivete

let me put it to you this way

I have NEVER heard of a competitive fundraiser for something as large as this where the numbers are kept hidden until the very end.

What makes it particularly suspicious is that there is already CLEARLY an internal bias against smash in the belly EVO. It's like they already got schooled in that stupid fbook poll and now have to resort to some sketchy donation with a charity slapped on to it to give us the "chance" we are asking for.

Please don't act like this is seriously all about DUH BREAST CANCER

You're pretending that communities would donate if they all kne the totals. You are lieing to yourself.
People in this thread have already commented that if sony (for example) was to drop 100K into the pot, we wouldn't even try anymore.

100K is nice, but imagine if Sony did that, we didn;t kno about it, so we raised another 10K.
110K > 100K.

Stop being a oversensitive teenager. It isn't about '"MUH BReST CANeR", its about seeing things from all sides.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

They don't have to steal it, they just have to claim a tax break on it >___>

This is why it's hard to take you seriously.

 

[clowsui]

Btw even if MLP gets nominated, then they need to provide a public build (AT THE VERY LEAST) by EVO time and they might not be willing to do that

so let's just get donating

@HKS I'll drop it then.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Am I the only one that's gonna be honest and say he just doesn't want to pay to enter?

 

[King Funk]

Ashamed of some of the people in this thread. The EVO staff has VERY good reasons not to accept Smash, Melee in particular, as an official game and that is due to logistical reasons involving flatscreens and PS3 setups. I thought we had gone through that question a bazillion times. It has NOTHING to do with the FGC's opinion of the Smash community, the EVO staff's opinion of the Smash community or anything else. Their reasons are logical, not personal and you have to respect that.

Please STOP imagining that we're the victims of bias or anything. Get a sense of reality.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

Btw even if MLP gets nominated, then they need to provide a public build (AT THE VERY LEAST) by EVO time and they might not be willing to do that

so let's just get donating

@HKS I'll drop it then.

They've made public builds before. The only reason why there isn't one now is because the latest one got stolen and distributed without the dev's permission.

Am I the only one that's gonna be honest and say he just doesn't want to pay to enter?

You have more of my respect than some of the other people here, for what that's worth.

 

[clowsui]

Can we at least start donating you guys I feel like 8 pages of arguments hasn't gotten us even over 1000 on the wepay

 

[Jaedrik]

Stealing funds that would go to a charity is a legitimate legal issue, one that Wizard and the Cannon brothers are most certainly NOT willing to risk. As I said, they've been doing this for more than a decade, and assuming that they would be willing to throw it all away for such a petty issue is bordering on insanity.

I think you're confusing 'insanity' with perceived ignorance, and truly ignorant they may be.
However, in your attempt to beat back others comments you come off as the insane one.
Now that I see your point, and as I have stated, I agree with you.
But the way you're confronting people is brash, and doesn't help you worth a ****.
So if it must come to that, let the theories be proposed, don't make it personal.
Yes, cases like this are most likely, by far, the ordinary where they would not will to risk it, and I agree with you again, I doubt this is some sort of embezzlement scheme.
But I also wish to call into question their theories of 'illegitimate' votes, but as I will say again, my faith that this is not the extraordinary case of embezzlement or fraud is much stronger than this notion. It comes in varying degrees.

 

[Jiv]

Am I the only one that's gonna be honest and say he just doesn't want to pay to enter?

lmao

I like you

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

I think you're confusing 'insanity' with perceived ignorance, and truly ignorant they may be.
However, in your attempt to beat back others comments you come off as the insane one.
Now that I see your point, and as I have stated, I agree with you.
But the way you're confronting people is brash, and doesn't help you worth a ****.
So if it must come to that, let the theories be proposed, don't make it personal.
Yes, cases like this are most likely, by far, the ordinary where they would not will to risk it, and I agree with you again, I doubt this is some sort of embezzlement scheme.
But I also wish to call into question their theories of 'illegitimate' votes, but as I will say again, my faith that this is not the extraordinary case of embezzlement or fraud is much stronger than this notion. It comes in varying degrees.

I'm brash because I care about the FGC.

 

[xFats]

I though this was trolling. You guys really really really are babies.

 

[Jockmaster]

You're pretending that communities would donate if they all kne the totals. You are lieing to yourself.
People in this thread have already commented that if sony (for example) was to drop 100K into the pot, we wouldn't even try anymore.

100K is nice, but imagine if Sony did that, we didn;t kno about it, so we raised another 10K.
110K > 100K.

Stop being a oversensitive teenager. It isn't about '"MUH BReST CANeR", its about seeing things from all sides.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is this: Melee has a community that isn't exactly wealthy. We are a grassroots community with practically no sponsorship and are comprised of mostly broke college kids and young adults. This kind of donation process is EXACTLY the "kryptonite" so to speak to keep us out of contention, all the while saving face for EVO. People who play smash are not the type to donate large sums of money, and there ARE people backing some other games who WILL donate large sums of money, and our community knows that.

Our only hope would be to visibly rally and KNOW how much we need to get in to the lead, but with no hope other than "well, here we go", most smashers simply won't donate. It's a lost cause from launch for us.

 

[Jaedrik]

I'm brash because I care about the FGC.

Like I said, it doesn't help worth a ****.
I don't doubt that you care, but your disdain for those who oppose you or the FGC seems to far outweigh your care for the FGC.

This extends from the philosophy that giving people the benefit of the doubt and being meek goes miles and helps far better for any argument.

 

[Gliffie]

Someone just lock this thread and we'll use the other one for donating. Jesus H Christ people.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

I guess what I'm trying to get across is this: Melee has a community that isn't exactly wealthy. We are a grassroots community with practically no sponsorship and are comprised of mostly broke college kids and young adults. This kind of donation process is EXACTLY the "kryptonite" so to speak to keep us out of contention, all the while saving face for EVO. People who play smash are not the type to donate large sums of money, and there ARE people backing some other games who WILL donate large sums of money, and our community knows that.

Our only hope would be to visibly rally and KNOW how much we need to get in to the lead, but with no hope other than "well, here we go", most smashers simply won't donate. It's a lost cause from launch for us.

People have been willing to give large sums of money just to get a Smash player from Point A to Point B. I don't think this is too much of a stretch.

Like I said, it doesn't help worth a ****.
I don't doubt that you care, but your disdain for those who oppose you or the FGC seems to far outweigh your care for the FGC.

If someone has a different viewpoint than me, than that's fine. What I have a problem with are people bringing a bunch of nonsense to the table and treating it like gospel, or coming up with an excuse to NOT donate. It's vile, and the fact that some people are entertaining those notions is even MORE vile.

 

[Jaedrik]

If someone has a different viewpoint than me, than that's fine. What I have a problem with are people bringing a bunch of nonsense to the table and treating it like gospel, or coming up with an excuse to NOT donate. It's vile, and the fact that some people are entertaining those notions is even MORE vile.

I do not wish to revile you, but then it is safe to say that you care not for the helping or convincing of the other person in the debate, you only care that your views are protected or for your own pleasure.
No matter how unfounded that opposing viewpoint may be, acting vile in return doesn't help anything.

 

[JPOBS]

I guess what I'm trying to get across is this: Melee has a community that isn't exactly wealthy. We are a grassroots community with practically no sponsorship and are comprised of mostly broke college kids and young adults. This kind of donation process is EXACTLY the "kryptonite" so to speak to keep us out of contention, all the while saving face for EVO. People who play smash are not the type to donate large sums of money, and there ARE people backing some other games who WILL donate large sums of money, and our community knows that.

Our only hope would be to visibly rally and KNOW how much ee need to get in to the lead, but with no hope other than "well, here we go", most smashers simply won't donate. It's a lost cause from launch for us.

Agreed with all you said. I was just providing reasons why they might have decided to stay private.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

I do not wish to revile you, but then it is safe to say that you care not for the helping or convincing of the other person in the debate, you only care that your views are protected or for your own pleasure.
No matter how unfounded that opposing viewpoint may be, acting vile in return doesn't help anything.

I care about the truth. Brash as I might be, I will not sit by and tolerate people morphing the truth (or outright lying) just to fuel their irrational fears about something as simple as a donation poll to get your favorite game into EVO's 8th slot.

EDIT: I took a look in the donation thread...people are still entertaining the "let's pool our money" idea. If it wasn't such a disgusting idea, I would be laughing.

 

[GoldenGlove]

I donated $20 because I would love to see my favorite game at the biggest fighting game tournament of the year, and also because cancer research is a worthy cause.

Do people think there is some FGC overlord handing down a mandate to screw over smash?

Do people think the organizers of a corporate-sponsored event with over a decade of repute are going to defraud a cancer charity?

Do people think that not making donations visible is indication of their intention to defraud a cancer charity? Allow me to repeat the argument that others have posted: Making donations visible discourages everyone from donating once a clear winner is obvious.

Do people think the Evo T.O.s have decided to defraud a cancer charity on the basis of their low opinion of Smash?

Why do people think the Evo T.O.s have that opinion in the first place?

Because it made an appearance at Evo and then failed to make the cut in subsequent years? If every game's community took this as a sign of a victimizing conspiracy, the Soul Calibur and Melty Blood players would have had Mr. Wizard assassinated by now.

Because it wasn't immediately granted a spot in the line-up upon winning the facebook poll? The Evo staff never made any indication that the winner of the poll would be granted a spot in the line-up. Further, any kind of online poll can be abused and made to yield a result that is not consistent with the actuality of what the poll intended to gauge. The same problem is inherent in a charity drive (the game which wins and the game which Evo attendees and spectators most wanted to see may not end up being the same), but any perceived "abuse of the system" is at least providing funding toward a worthy cause.

Because random SRK front-pagers deride Smash as a party game? This is to be expected, and happens in the Smash community toward other fighting games as well. Wake-up Ultra Fighter 4, Wesker vs. Xfactor 3, etc.

Why are people fabricating narratives about the Evo T.O.'s hatred of Smash? The story you concoct inside your head is irrelevant. For example, imagine this scenario: Mr. Wizard loves Smash. Upon seeing its dominance in the facebook poll, he was overjoyed and masturbated several times. However, fearing that its outright inclusion in Evo 2013 would sow discord in the FGC at large, he gave it its spot indirectly, by way of a donation drive, confident that the 6000+ poll respondents would rise to the task and dwarf the totals amassed by other, clearly less dedicated communities.

You see? My narrative takes the opposite view of everyone else's and is equally baseless. The reality of the situation is that the Smash community has a chance to get its game into a well-regarded, well-attended event by way of donations to a worthy cause. It's a chance that will absolutely be squandered if the petty, tribalistic, hyper-victimized mentality I'm seeing so much of prevails.

 

[clowsui]

For the record I'm willing to donate DESPITE transparency issues but a vocal and apparently not small minority of people think that it's a legitimate issue, which is why I suggested that in the meantime we create a donation pool and in the meantime ask for clarifications from EVO staff. The only way we're losing is to continue what we're doing now, which is not donate at all

also the tguy above me made a good post

 

[v4extreme]

Guys, just donate. Drop in $5 or something. Even $1. If we win it'll be amazing, if we lose it's still for a good cause. Post it on your facebookz and what not, random people will be willing to help for breast cancer too.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

For the record I'm willing to donate DESPITE transparency issues but a vocal and apparently not small minority of people think that it's a legitimate issue, which is why I suggested that in the meantime we create a donation pool and in the meantime ask for clarifications from EVO staff. The only way we're losing is to continue what we're doing now, which is not donate at all

also the tguy above me made a good post

I'm happy that you're willing to donate, I truly am. But making a donation pool is akin to holding that money for ransom.

 

[prog]

And the last inklings of hope I had with this community have become grains of sand slipping through my fingers. I loathe so many of you.

 

[clowsui]

I understand that and I think that it only becomes ransom if the sentiment of skepticism isn't among the majority (which it doesn't appear to be coming close to achieving anyways; I thought it might at the time that I made that post because of some feedback I got from a few...let's just say fairly important people in teh community). So actually i think that a donation pool probably isn't a good idea in light of things but I dooooo think there's a few transparency issues here and there (that we can and ultimately should dismiss in good faith).

Also I gotta say I agree w prog's twitter feed and what a few others have said. Donating is OK, not donating out of skepticism is conditionally OK, not donating is OK, but conditionally donating is ****ing stupid, wrong and actually scumbaggy.

 

[zmx]

I care about the truth.

No you care about the FGC. And anyone with any valid points is an enemy to you because of it. Not sure I'd call that caring though, more like worship.

If you stopped raging for a second and actually took a look at the other perspective for a second you might see things differently.

If you think things like corruption and TOs keeping some of the pot themselves has never happened in the FGC you need a wakeup call. There was one scandal just a couple of months back. It has also happened to Smash ie. Pound 5.

People have every reason to remain cautious. And you have no right to tell people what they should do with their money either way.

 

[Jaedrik]

No you care about the FGC. And anyone with any valid points is an enemy to you because of it. Not sure I'd call that caring though, more like worship.

If you stopped raging for a second and actually took a look at the other perspective for a second you might see things differently.

If you think things like corruption and TOs keeping some of the pot themselves has never happened in the FGC you need a wakeup call. There was one scandal just a couple of months back. It has also happened to Smash ie. Pound 5.

People have every reason to remain cautious.

You're falling to the same 'rage' that he had, and he did stop 'raging'.
Should the questioning of 'worship' and skepticism not be considered in the same light as that worship?

 

[ShrieK1295]

And the last inklings of hope I had with this community have become grains of sand slipping through my fingers. I loathe so many of you.

I don't know what other gaming communities you've been a part of, but the other ones I've been in were soooooo much worse than melee's

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

No you care about the FGC. And anyone with any valid points is an enemy to you because of it. Not sure I'd call that caring though, more like worship.

If you stopped raging for a second and actually took a look at the other perspective for a second you might see things differently.

If you think things like corruption and TOs keeping some of the pot themselves has never happened in the FGC you need a wakeup call. There was one scandal just a couple of months back. It has also happened to Smash ie. Pound 5.

People have every reason to remain cautious.

I care about both. When I was still down with the Smash community, I made sure the truth was known. The truth means more to me than some video game loyalty. Nothing I have said so far has been a lie. Harsh and uncalled for? Probably. But a lie? Hardly.

I've looked at the other perspective, and it's revolting. Holding potential donation money for ransom just because you don't like EVO is a moronic idea, and anyone who actually supports such an idea should be mocked. Yes, Smash and the FGC have had some bad apples in terms of scandals, TOs, etc. Has that stopped either side from competing? No. It merely stopped those responsible for those scandals from seeing any further help. EVO hasn't had any sort of scandals like that, at least regarding tournament funds or the like. And CERTAINLY not regarding donations. Just last year they even put together a scholarship fund that was made with all the money received from the subscription fee they charged to use the chat feature on Twitch. I'm truly confident that none of the money obtained from the donation poll will be misappropriated, given EVO's history.

If you're going to choose to not support something, that's fine. But do it for the right reasons, not because of a conspiracy theory.

 

[zmx]

I care about both. When I was still down with the Smash community, I made sure the truth was known. The truth means more to me than some video game loyalty. Nothing I have said so far has been a lie. Harsh and uncalled for? Probably. But a lie? Hardly.

I've looked at the other perspective, and it's revolting. Holding potential donation money for ransom just because you don't like EVO is a moronic idea, and anyone who actually supports such an idea should be mocked. Yes, Smash and the FGC have had some bad apples in terms of scandals, TOs, etc. Has that stopped either side from competing? No. It merely stopped those responsible for those scandals from seeing any further help. EVO hasn't had any sort of scandals like that, at least regarding tournament funds or the like. And CERTAINLY not regarding donations. Just last year they even put together a scholarship fund that was made with all the money received from the subscription fee they charged to use the chat feature on Twitch. I'm truly confident that none of the money obtained from the donation poll will be misappropriated, given EVO's history.

If you're going to choose to not support something, that's fine. But do it for the right reasons, not because of a conspiracy theory.

Creating a donation pool is a dirty tacitc, sure.

Know what also is dirty? Being secretive about how much is being donated so all communities (not just Smash) will continue donating until the end because there might still be a chance (even if there is none).

If you are asking for donations people deserve to know everything and it should not be done in such a shady way. I've yet to here of a charity drive that didn't clearly indicate how much money was being raised.

 

[Biz_R_0]

You know what else is dirty? Splitting.

Just sayin'.

 

[zmx]

You know what else is dirty? Splitting.

Just sayin'.

And this happens in both the FGC and Smash community. In the FGC on a more reglular basis.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

Creating a donation pool is a dirty tacitc, sure.

Know what also is dirty? Being secretive about how much is being donated so all communities (not just Smash) will continue donating until the end because there might still be a chance (even if there is none).

If you are asking for donations people deserve to know everything and it should not be done in such a shady way. I've yet to here of a charity drive that didn't clearly indicate how much money was being raised.

People have given reasons why the amounts aren't shown. In this very thread even!

Personally, I think it's odd to keep them a secret. But it's in no way some sort of dealbreaker in terms of whether or not I'm going to donate. As I have mentioned: given EVO's lengthy 10+ year history, it would be foolish to think that they'd do something shady with the donation money.