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Neither of those points highlighted is a legitimate defenses. Sure the charity itself could be set up differently, but that has jack **** to do with the current debate, and you know it.And that's just deceptive for the communities involved. It's giving people false hope. I have already said that's exactly why they are doing this but it doesn't make it fair.
Means don't justify the end. And it's been said a million times but apparently it needs to be said again.
Breast Cancer research already gets a ton of donations. As in billions. Literally billions. There are countless other charities (many of which are in more dire immediate need) that aren't nearly as fortunate.
People have the right to know how much is being donated (as most charity drives will tell you anyway) and should also have the option to donate to more needy charities.
And once again this is the best case scenario. Right now there is NO protection from fraud as Clowsui said. We have no way of knowing how much money is being donated and as a result, where it's going. That doesn't mean "ZOMG U CONZIPERACY THEORIZT WACKO" we are simply saying it's a possibility. Do you wear seatbelts because you expect to crash everyday? Same idea here, it's just assurance.
I'd be willing to be more civil if posters like you and zmx would be willing to stop with the conspiracy theories and boogeyman nonsense.Did you not see the part of my post where I acknowledged that this possibility was highly unlikely?
I am trying my hardest to be civil here. I'd be very appreciative if you could do the same.
I wonder which will raise more money:I think that something that a lot of people seem to be overlooking when they say things like " why spend money on Evo and not get in when we could just put that money towards apex/genesis/whatever?" is what would that accomplish in expanding the scene? Those tournaments are going to be about the same size regardless of how much money is thrown at them; that is to say, they aren't going to magically break 400-500 if we put money towards them. However, if we do manage to get to Evo we would certainly be exposing new players to Melee and, in doing so, actually growing the scene by potentially bringing in newer players, and also, potentially getting older players interested again by allowing for a new experience.
Stealing funds that would go to a charity is a legitimate legal issue, one that Wizard and the Cannon brothers are most certainly NOT willing to risk. As I said, they've been doing this for more than a decade, and assuming that they would be willing to throw it all away for such a petty issue is bordering on insanity.@HKS I am not trying to discourage anyone from donating; in fact, I'm all for donating IN SPITE of this potential shadiness. I just want to encourage people to demand an answer with respect to a legitimate issue as they're donating. Whether or not they choose for this issue to stop their donation is up to them, I just want to point out that it's not entirely unreasonable or irrational to seek answers.
You're pretending that communities would donate if they all kne the totals. You are lieing to yourself.I'm baffled by your naivete
let me put it to you this way
I have NEVER heard of a competitive fundraiser for something as large as this where the numbers are kept hidden until the very end.
What makes it particularly suspicious is that there is already CLEARLY an internal bias against smash in the belly EVO. It's like they already got schooled in that stupid fbook poll and now have to resort to some sketchy donation with a charity slapped on to it to give us the "chance" we are asking for.
Please don't act like this is seriously all about DUH BREAST CANCER
This is why it's hard to take you seriously.They don't have to steal it, they just have to claim a tax break on it >___>
They've made public builds before. The only reason why there isn't one now is because the latest one got stolen and distributed without the dev's permission.Btw even if MLP gets nominated, then they need to provide a public build (AT THE VERY LEAST) by EVO time and they might not be willing to do that
so let's just get donating
@HKS I'll drop it then.
You have more of my respect than some of the other people here, for what that's worth.Am I the only one that's gonna be honest and say he just doesn't want to pay to enter?
I think you're confusing 'insanity' with perceived ignorance, and truly ignorant they may be.Stealing funds that would go to a charity is a legitimate legal issue, one that Wizard and the Cannon brothers are most certainly NOT willing to risk. As I said, they've been doing this for more than a decade, and assuming that they would be willing to throw it all away for such a petty issue is bordering on insanity.
lmaoAm I the only one that's gonna be honest and say he just doesn't want to pay to enter?
I'm brash because I care about the FGC.I think you're confusing 'insanity' with perceived ignorance, and truly ignorant they may be.
However, in your attempt to beat back others comments you come off as the insane one.
Now that I see your point, and as I have stated, I agree with you.
But the way you're confronting people is brash, and doesn't help you worth a ****.
So if it must come to that, let the theories be proposed, don't make it personal.
Yes, cases like this are most likely, by far, the ordinary where they would not will to risk it, and I agree with you again, I doubt this is some sort of embezzlement scheme.
But I also wish to call into question their theories of 'illegitimate' votes, but as I will say again, my faith that this is not the extraordinary case of embezzlement or fraud is much stronger than this notion. It comes in varying degrees.
I guess what I'm trying to get across is this: Melee has a community that isn't exactly wealthy. We are a grassroots community with practically no sponsorship and are comprised of mostly broke college kids and young adults. This kind of donation process is EXACTLY the "kryptonite" so to speak to keep us out of contention, all the while saving face for EVO. People who play smash are not the type to donate large sums of money, and there ARE people backing some other games who WILL donate large sums of money, and our community knows that.You're pretending that communities would donate if they all kne the totals. You are lieing to yourself.
People in this thread have already commented that if sony (for example) was to drop 100K into the pot, we wouldn't even try anymore.
100K is nice, but imagine if Sony did that, we didn;t kno about it, so we raised another 10K.
110K > 100K.
Stop being a oversensitive teenager. It isn't about '"MUH BReST CANeR", its about seeing things from all sides.
Like I said, it doesn't help worth a ****.I'm brash because I care about the FGC.
People have been willing to give large sums of money just to get a Smash player from Point A to Point B. I don't think this is too much of a stretch.I guess what I'm trying to get across is this: Melee has a community that isn't exactly wealthy. We are a grassroots community with practically no sponsorship and are comprised of mostly broke college kids and young adults. This kind of donation process is EXACTLY the "kryptonite" so to speak to keep us out of contention, all the while saving face for EVO. People who play smash are not the type to donate large sums of money, and there ARE people backing some other games who WILL donate large sums of money, and our community knows that.
Our only hope would be to visibly rally and KNOW how much we need to get in to the lead, but with no hope other than "well, here we go", most smashers simply won't donate. It's a lost cause from launch for us.
If someone has a different viewpoint than me, than that's fine. What I have a problem with are people bringing a bunch of nonsense to the table and treating it like gospel, or coming up with an excuse to NOT donate. It's vile, and the fact that some people are entertaining those notions is even MORE vile.Like I said, it doesn't help worth a ****.
I don't doubt that you care, but your disdain for those who oppose you or the FGC seems to far outweigh your care for the FGC.
I do not wish to revile you, but then it is safe to say that you care not for the helping or convincing of the other person in the debate, you only care that your views are protected or for your own pleasure.If someone has a different viewpoint than me, than that's fine. What I have a problem with are people bringing a bunch of nonsense to the table and treating it like gospel, or coming up with an excuse to NOT donate. It's vile, and the fact that some people are entertaining those notions is even MORE vile.
Agreed with all you said. I was just providing reasons why they might have decided to stay private.I guess what I'm trying to get across is this: Melee has a community that isn't exactly wealthy. We are a grassroots community with practically no sponsorship and are comprised of mostly broke college kids and young adults. This kind of donation process is EXACTLY the "kryptonite" so to speak to keep us out of contention, all the while saving face for EVO. People who play smash are not the type to donate large sums of money, and there ARE people backing some other games who WILL donate large sums of money, and our community knows that.
Our only hope would be to visibly rally and KNOW how much ee need to get in to the lead, but with no hope other than "well, here we go", most smashers simply won't donate. It's a lost cause from launch for us.
I care about the truth. Brash as I might be, I will not sit by and tolerate people morphing the truth (or outright lying) just to fuel their irrational fears about something as simple as a donation poll to get your favorite game into EVO's 8th slot.I do not wish to revile you, but then it is safe to say that you care not for the helping or convincing of the other person in the debate, you only care that your views are protected or for your own pleasure.
No matter how unfounded that opposing viewpoint may be, acting vile in return doesn't help anything.
I'm happy that you're willing to donate, I truly am. But making a donation pool is akin to holding that money for ransom.For the record I'm willing to donate DESPITE transparency issues but a vocal and apparently not small minority of people think that it's a legitimate issue, which is why I suggested that in the meantime we create a donation pool and in the meantime ask for clarifications from EVO staff. The only way we're losing is to continue what we're doing now, which is not donate at all
also the tguy above me made a good post
No you care about the FGC. And anyone with any valid points is an enemy to you because of it. Not sure I'd call that caring though, more like worship.I care about the truth.
You're falling to the same 'rage' that he had, and he did stop 'raging'.No you care about the FGC. And anyone with any valid points is an enemy to you because of it. Not sure I'd call that caring though, more like worship.
If you stopped raging for a second and actually took a look at the other perspective for a second you might see things differently.
If you think things like corruption and TOs keeping some of the pot themselves has never happened in the FGC you need a wakeup call. There was one scandal just a couple of months back. It has also happened to Smash ie. Pound 5.
People have every reason to remain cautious.
I don't know what other gaming communities you've been a part of, but the other ones I've been in were soooooo much worse than melee'sAnd the last inklings of hope I had with this community have become grains of sand slipping through my fingers. I loathe so many of you.
I care about both. When I was still down with the Smash community, I made sure the truth was known. The truth means more to me than some video game loyalty. Nothing I have said so far has been a lie. Harsh and uncalled for? Probably. But a lie? Hardly.No you care about the FGC. And anyone with any valid points is an enemy to you because of it. Not sure I'd call that caring though, more like worship.
If you stopped raging for a second and actually took a look at the other perspective for a second you might see things differently.
If you think things like corruption and TOs keeping some of the pot themselves has never happened in the FGC you need a wakeup call. There was one scandal just a couple of months back. It has also happened to Smash ie. Pound 5.
People have every reason to remain cautious.
Creating a donation pool is a dirty tacitc, sure.I care about both. When I was still down with the Smash community, I made sure the truth was known. The truth means more to me than some video game loyalty. Nothing I have said so far has been a lie. Harsh and uncalled for? Probably. But a lie? Hardly.
I've looked at the other perspective, and it's revolting. Holding potential donation money for ransom just because you don't like EVO is a moronic idea, and anyone who actually supports such an idea should be mocked. Yes, Smash and the FGC have had some bad apples in terms of scandals, TOs, etc. Has that stopped either side from competing? No. It merely stopped those responsible for those scandals from seeing any further help. EVO hasn't had any sort of scandals like that, at least regarding tournament funds or the like. And CERTAINLY not regarding donations. Just last year they even put together a scholarship fund that was made with all the money received from the subscription fee they charged to use the chat feature on Twitch. I'm truly confident that none of the money obtained from the donation poll will be misappropriated, given EVO's history.
If you're going to choose to not support something, that's fine. But do it for the right reasons, not because of a conspiracy theory.
And this happens in both the FGC and Smash community. In the FGC on a more reglular basis.You know what else is dirty? Splitting.
Just sayin'.
People have given reasons why the amounts aren't shown. In this very thread even!Creating a donation pool is a dirty tacitc, sure.
Know what also is dirty? Being secretive about how much is being donated so all communities (not just Smash) will continue donating until the end because there might still be a chance (even if there is none).
If you are asking for donations people deserve to know everything and it should not be done in such a shady way. I've yet to here of a charity drive that didn't clearly indicate how much money was being raised.