Flashing
Smash Apprentice
*Note: Thanks to D0N for starting this up and being a pretty cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything.
INTRODUCTION
This thread is for discussing specific strategies for DK in teams with the rest of the cast. We will go through the entire cast one by one, decide if they team well with DK, and come up with strategies and AT's. Character discussions will last no longer than 1 week before big updates, unless discussion continues after 2 weeks. The zelda boards have a nice teams thread going, I'm aiming to make something similar so DKs metagame improves. If at any time you have a good vid of you and the character being discussed, feel free to post it. It may even get used in an example vid.
I will decide characters based on the Character Rankings List, since its better to know doubles strats with characters that are being used the most rather than we start with characters that your never going to team with/find.
All teams will be rated on a scale of 1-10, with 1 being terrible and 10 being amazing. A 10 would be something like DK and MK in which both characters perfectly complement each others playstyles and a 1 would be just complete opposite characters almost designed to get in each others way. So judge based on what you think inbetween and so on.
I will decide characters based on the Character Rankings List, since its better to know doubles strats with characters that are being used the most rather than we start with characters that your never going to team with/find.
All teams will be rated on a scale of 1-10, with 1 being terrible and 10 being amazing. A 10 would be something like DK and MK in which both characters perfectly complement each others playstyles and a 1 would be just complete opposite characters almost designed to get in each others way. So judge based on what you think inbetween and so on.
Taken from Zelda boards::
So basically if you want to do the full writeup just write a paragraph or less of info of said doubles team would benefit each other in a match. Also maybe point out what playstyle each character would represent. Also maybe post some pro's and cons using the smiley system listed and maybe some super crazy setups they can pull off or "team combo's" And finally try to think of good/bad stages for the team. Or just post your general thoughts on the team and I'll compile them to make a general summary as done so far.The main three playstyles in teams are:
- Aggressive (both characters are attack oriented and tend charge in for attacks, trying to add pressure on the enemy)
- Passive (both characters play defensive and do their best to force enemies to approach first)
- Semi-passive/semi-aggressive (one half of the team rushes in for close quarters combat while the other is left back to support with projectiles, protect from attacks and so on).
- If necessary, it´s possible to make and use more accurate descriptions, but usually these three are enough to give to basic idea of the team structure.
What roles two the two have in the team?
The basic thing to consider in 2v2 battles is what role every character has. Possible roles could for example be:
This division is not to be taken too strictly as it´s not unusual for the characters to have traits from multiple of these playstyles, but they work as a nice directory.
- Finisher: A character that specializes into finishing enemies that are already damaged or send flying. This is usually done by hitting them hard enough to send directly out of the screen or by gimping them. For example: G&W
- Damage racker: The main damager in the team, this character usually tends to rush directly into fight and causes lots of damage really fast, but has some trouble sealing the deal with KOs. For example: Metaknight
- Supporter: These characters favor the sidelines of battle and try to avoid unnecessary direct combat with enemy while supporting their partner with projectiles and other means.
- Stock holder: Well protected character whose main job is to stay alive on the battlefield. The point of this is to keep a stock lead compared to the enemy team, thus forcing them to stay active. For example: Snake
- Spacing master: The one who helps creating good situations and positions for the team. This is rarely ones only job in a team, but some characters perform in this task extremely well. For example: Marth
- Multitasker: This means a character that has wide array of options, enabling him/her to work as kind of jack-of-all-trades, always choosing the most beneficial style for the team according to the situation. For example: Meta among many non-linear characters.
What can the two do to support each other?
How well does DK work with the characters in question? Do they rule out each other´s weaknesses or share the same ones? Are there some specific tactics they can use together? All things like this are a important part of every doubles team and should be well discussed. This part of the discussion is probably going to be the most time-consuming of them all, but it´s also the most important one.
What problems does the team have?There´s no such thing as the perfect team: there´re always some weak spots here and there. Finding and identifying those weak spots is also a part of the reason this thread was made, as knowing them makes it easier to prevent them from being exploited.
Is there something special that should be noted about the team?
Does the team have serious disadvantage on certain stages or get completely ruined by certain characters? Or vice versa: does the team absolutely dominate in certain situations? There are many things that can completely tore apart normally very well working team or give a huge advantage in battle. They´re usually rare, but can turn the battle upside down. If you know things like make sure to share them with others. We´re all working together here!
WHY DK SHOULD BE ON YOUR TEAM
GENERAL PROS&CONS
GENERAL PROS&CONS
Can be a Finisher - Many powerful KO moves with great range and 3 spikes
Can be a Stock holder - Tilts, down b, up b, bair and throws are all good at keeping people away. DK also lasts a long time
Can be a Spacing Master - He has great range on most of his moves and can set up good situations very easily with his cargo throws and bair
Lives long
Kills early, Especially when smashes are saved
Down throw and cargo down throw sets up for nice/easy team combos
Edgegaurds well
Gets hit by EVERYTHING sometimes because of his big frame
Can be hard to avoid hitting/killing teamates due to range&power of moves. Saying your sorry does not cover for a d-smash thats kills your partner at 80%...
CHARACTERS
Character Checkoff and Rating
*Green= 7-10 ; Yellow=4-6 ; Red=1-3*
Metaknight (pg.1-3) - 10/10 DONE
Snake (pg.3-4) - 8/10 DONE
Peach (pg.4-5) 8/10 DONE
Diddy (pg.5-6) 7/10 DONE
Snake (pg.3-4) - 8/10 DONE
Peach (pg.4-5) 8/10 DONE
Diddy (pg.5-6) 7/10 DONE
Falco (pg. 8-9) 4/10 DONE
Wario (pg. 8-??) (Needs to be rediscussed later) ??/?? DISCUSSION ENDED DUE TO TOO LITTLE MATCHUP INPUT
King Dedede (pg. 10-11) 5/10 DONE
Marth (pg. ??-??) ??/?? DISCUSSION STARTED
Marth (pg. ??-??) ??/?? DISCUSSION STARTED
Character Summaries
META KNIGHT - 10/10
Meta Knight is DK’s best partner. DK has no problem killing and setting up gimps, Meta knight is the best at gimping, and they can both wrack damage pretty well (especially Meta Knight). Generally speaking, Meta Knight can air camp while DK controls the ground, but this team is most effective when one player acts as the aggressor and the other acts as a stock holder/edge guarder.
If Meta Knight is the aggressor, DK should mostly play it safe on the edges for stage KO’s and gimps while he holds stock (as always, save smashes). DK’s range is enough that he can still assist Meta Knight from a distance with moves like the tilts and down-b, but be careful about throwing in power moves and accidentally KOing your partner early. Rather than rushing in for the KO, try to have Meta Knight knock them over to you (d-smash works well), or do a team combo involving one of DK’s smashes so you don’t get in each others way. If DK is the aggressor, reverse the roles.
Some pros and cons
If DK is ever being juggled, Meta Knight can run a tornado threw everything and then you have complete stage control again. This helps a lot.
DK’s cargo throws and b-throw make for nice/easy gimp setups
DK can capitalize on low shields from Meta Knights tornado
Meta Knight's poor air movement speed means he has to be nearby to save you if you are off stage. His ground speed makes up for it a bit being he can help you out of tight situations.
If Meta Knight gets in the way of DK’s power, he could lose a stock a lot earlier than he should due to his light weight. Staying out of each others way is key. If one person is the main aggressor, this should not be much of an issue
Notable Team Combos
*Meta Knight d-throw > DK's u-smash or d-smash
*Meta Knight tornado > DK u-air/F-air
*DK d-throw/cargo throw > Meta Knight tornado… or whatever you want
Good Stages
Stages with a large blast box work better than smaller stages
Bad StagesDelfino Plaza, Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise (if DK can cope with it), Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Pokemon Stadium Melee, etc.
None really…
If I had to guess Brinstar wouldn't exactly be good for this team. Not much room for DK to keep away from MK, and both of you die earlier than usual on this stage. So it's basically nulling one thing that makes this team work and amplifying the thing that could give it any trouble.
SNAKE 8/10
Snake is good... You have 2 powerhouses on one team and they both live forever. DK should learn how to work around snakes grenades, but if you mess up or can't get used to them its ok.
Snake's got a better grab than dk imo and snake should attack while DK stock tanks. Together they are a force on the ground and there are many possibilities in which grabs could lead to Fsmashes of the highest degree. Or headbutt to RPG. You'd better be up in the air against these two!
Some prosEvery snake I've teamed with has just grenade camped his *** off to prevent approaches against him while stock tanking for me, normally I'm the aggressor. DK is heavy so grenades don't mean as much to him so when trading damage DK is better off. If a grenade does blow you and someone else up that's a prime opportunity for uair.
plus spinning kong to transfer c4s is like 50 damage. Spinning kong to grab cargo jumping uthrow to c4 is like 0 to death almost.
Grenades trading damage is not a big problem
Great ground control between the two
Reliable kill set ups (see team combos section)
Live Long
If you want to be a show off, take snakes box from his taunt and toss it at someone offstage with DK
If DK needs help recovering, snake can hit his up-b with a grenade for a boost
Notable Team Combos
*Snake side throw > DK d-smash/f-smash
*Snake puts c4 on DK > DK up-bs and transfers c4 > Snake uses c4
*Snake puts c4 on DK > DK cargo u-throws and transfers c4 > Snake uses c4
*Snake d-throw > painful team tech chase
*DK cargo d-throw > snake u-tilt
Good Stages
Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Japes, Battlefield, Luigi's Mansion, Delfino plaza, Brinstar, Halberd
Bad Stages
Rainbow Cruise, Frigate
Peach 8/10
Some Pros and Conspeach is a very good teammate, she racks up damage very fast and you can finish very early. her dair can combo into itself and everything else she has including grabs. peach solves the main weakness in DK (the inability to deal with characters at low %) and DK solves a problem with peach (inability to kill effectively and early). they may not have sweet team combos but they compliment each other just as well as snake compliments MK.
downsides to this team.
peach can not deam with MK at all. tornado absolutely wrecks her and juggles you like crazy.
-ripple
DK down-b +Peach float = great spacing
If peach aims for the top of your up-b, a turnip can hit you out of your up-b and help you recover... If you need it
MK tornado can be hard to deal with
Notable Team Combos
*DK cargo d-throw > Peach f-air...
Good Stages
Luigi's Mansion, Japes, Brinstar, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), Delfino Plaza
Bad Stages
Rainbow Cruise, Frigate
Diddy 7/10
I like this team a lot because I get to play by the ledge a lot. Diddy has quick, ranged, high priority stage control with bananas so it's easy for him to trip people and just throw them offstage. After that just grab the ledge with DK and ledge drop bairs or up b stall. DK is ridiculous in the zone offstage horizontal to the ledge out to the magnifying glass, so you'll definitely be getting gimps or at least racking up MASSIVE DAMAGE.
Bananas give DK lots of opportunities and make this a very fun/creative team. Just make sure you use them effectively. Practice with your partner to get a feel for how not to get in each others way if need be.Diddy's nanners make DK even more a monster. He has a good glide toss, and can setup kills very easily (Glide Toss -> Fsmash= erection).
I prefer my Diddy partners to spam more bananas, and not worry about me slipping up on them. You just have to be wary of their placement when moving around, and learn to use them help your gameplay as well.
Some Pros and Cons
You look cool. Its better than Mario + Luigi or Falco + Fox
Lots of set ups for kills/dealing good damage. Your creativity is the limit.
Bananas help with stage control
If diddy aims for the top of your up-b, a banana can hit you out of your up-b and help you recover... If you need it
It may, but not always, take a few practice rounds to learn to work with your partner
Notable Team Combos
*Typical DK cargo d-throw > something
*Diddy hump grounded jump > f-smash
Good Stages
Luigi's Mansion, Japes, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), FD
Bad Stages
Rainbow Cruise, Frigate
Falco 4/10
Some Pro's and Cons
Falco's chaingrab can provide some nice 2v1 combo's with DK
Very hard to space with each other due to interference and waryness of lasers
Lasers could cause some interference issues due to DK's size
Falco has few options to save DK from being ganged up on
Notable Team Combo's
*Falco CG > DK Fsmash, Dsmash, Giant Punch, or Headbutt (Headbutt can be used to continue the combo)
*Laser Lock > basically the same options as the ones above for DK
Good Stages
FD, Pictochat, Norfair, and Jungle Japes
Bad Stages
Yoshi's Island (Good for DK but bad for Falco)
Fact of the matter is, both characters interfere with each other way too much, whether it be with DK's big attacks or Falco's lasers or whatnot. Plus, both characters don't have the best of recoveries and can't really help each other offstage or anything.
I just can't see it working to the extent that someone would want to intentionally use it all the time.
Falco's overall laser game and spacing really don't work with DK which causes major interference issues.Falco isn't the ideal teams partner.
First of all his bread and butter laser can't be spammed willy nilly because he now has a partner to consider. Not only that, but DK is a giant bumbling ape, so it's even harder to fire them without poor monkey boy getting in the way.
Obviously there could be some slick combos like CG > Spike (or not) to DK Side B to **** but it's all hypothetical and really DKs if you want a teams partner, Falco isn't my top recommendation.
Some Pro's and Cons
Falco's chaingrab can provide some nice 2v1 combo's with DK
Very hard to space with each other due to interference and waryness of lasers
Lasers could cause some interference issues due to DK's size
Falco has few options to save DK from being ganged up on
Notable Team Combo's
*Falco CG > DK Fsmash, Dsmash, Giant Punch, or Headbutt (Headbutt can be used to continue the combo)
*Laser Lock > basically the same options as the ones above for DK
Good Stages
FD, Pictochat, Norfair, and Jungle Japes
Bad Stages
Yoshi's Island (Good for DK but bad for Falco)
Wario ??/??
Will Discuss Later
Summary
He's the man with the plan.
Some Pro's and Con's
Burritos = No No
Notable Team Combo's
Bite to Dr. Mario's Pills = Wario as a Drug Addict
Good Stages
Fountain of Dreams
Bad Stages
lolwut
King Dedede 5/10
Will Discuss Later
Summary
He's the man with the plan.
Some Pro's and Con's
Burritos = No No
Notable Team Combo's
Bite to Dr. Mario's Pills = Wario as a Drug Addict
Good Stages
Fountain of Dreams
Bad Stages
lolwut
King Dedede 5/10
Summary
This team gets graped by fast characters but have some legit setups/combo's. Also they have some grape mixups with D3's swallow, which leads to obvious swallowcides but also because of DK's weight, DK can be swallowed by D3 and spit out as a projectile for a creative mixup. Think of D3 as teh ultimate barrel blaster in this matchup.
Some Pro's and Con's
Great setup's and combo's with each other
DK as a swallow projectile can be a innovative mixup
Due to weight and frame, DK and D3 will have trouble against faster characters
Even with the great setup and combo potential they can't really support each other that well due to be powerhouses/tanks.
:embarrassThis team gets wrecked by bulletseed lol
Notable Team Combo's
*D3's d-throw>DK f-smash>regrab
*D3's d-throw>DK ledgehop spike
Good Stages
Basically stages with good space for DK and D3 to move around, but not a lot of good stages
YI, FD
Bad Stages
Basically stages with tight space zones are bad for them DK and D3, but not a lot of bad stages
BF
this team is terrible. trust me. the ONLY nice thing about this team is D3's d-throw>Dk f-smash> regrab is a legit combo because of the hitstun
You can d-throw to ledgehop spike and its legit. That's kind of universal with D3 though. D3 can inhale and spit DK out and it hurts since the spit out thing works by weight. I dont think the team is terrible, but it does have alot of weaknesses. It seems like there is lots of power with things like cargo throw to fsmash or D3 d-throw to whatever, but its tuff to control and is all they have. Well that and living forever. It can be fun to play. If you can set up swallowcides with cargo throw while D3 is near death that helps, especially since you have 2 stock tanks.
If you've ever played those games where they have a huge boss that can take alot of hits, is way to slow to hit you, but when you get hit you die, thats what this reminds me of. Also this team gets wrecked by bulletseed lol, but when will that move happen anyway
I played a DK + D3 vs GW + MK. They can really destroy this team like many of the other fast characters. Since they are too sluggish it would be difficult for them to establish something.
This team gets graped by fast characters but have some legit setups/combo's. Also they have some grape mixups with D3's swallow, which leads to obvious swallowcides but also because of DK's weight, DK can be swallowed by D3 and spit out as a projectile for a creative mixup. Think of D3 as teh ultimate barrel blaster in this matchup.
Some Pro's and Con's
Great setup's and combo's with each other
DK as a swallow projectile can be a innovative mixup
Due to weight and frame, DK and D3 will have trouble against faster characters
Even with the great setup and combo potential they can't really support each other that well due to be powerhouses/tanks.
:embarrassThis team gets wrecked by bulletseed lol
Notable Team Combo's
*D3's d-throw>DK f-smash>regrab
*D3's d-throw>DK ledgehop spike
Good Stages
Basically stages with good space for DK and D3 to move around, but not a lot of good stages
YI, FD
Bad Stages
Basically stages with tight space zones are bad for them DK and D3, but not a lot of bad stages
BF
Marth ??/??
Summary
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Some Pro's and Con's
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Notable Team Combo's
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Good Stages
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Bad Stages
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Some Pro's and Con's
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Notable Team Combo's
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Good Stages
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Bad Stages
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