Dr. Mario Moveset Analysis

[UberMadman]

He couldn't in Melee but I've not heard anything about this version.

Actually, I believe I saw him do it on a stream, maybe ZeRo's. Don't quote me on it, but I believe he can Wall-Jump now.

 

[Jaedrik]

I have a question.

WHAT THE HECK IS UP WITH THAT ONE VICTORY ANIMATION HE JUST HOLDS HIS HAND OUT THROUGH HIS CHIN AND THEN STARES AT THE CAMERA WTF

Edit: I posted this in the wrong thread D:

 

[warioismymain]

I've played roughly 5 hours of doc and I really think he's good and maybe even better than Mario, and I'm not even ever really facing the opponent. He has a lot of reach and options for all kinds of situations. And even though his back air is the same, for some reason I feel it's better than Mario's. His dair short hop is also really good. Tell me some of your guy's strategies.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You might find this helpful. http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2i960u/mario_vs_dr_mario/

 

[dskank]

he can definitely wall jump, and god knows he needs considering how bad his up b is at recovering.

 

[TTTTTsd]

SH Back Air is nice, yes. It's better than Mario's as it has more knockback scaling. As for what I do with Doc....

Usually I like to throw pills to keep the space controlled, and then I go forward with a Nair or a grounded approach option. Granted this is all online so results may vary, but a lot of the times people like to leave their shields and try to attack after I space decently, and that's when I grab and the fun begins. D-Throw to Uair, while a short combo, lets you follow up with a mixup. While there's no TRUE combos after the UAir, if you read your opponent you can keep them guessing and hit them with more aerials. Another thing you'll need to learn is how to punish with FSmash, as it's super strong in this game. Fair is also good if you can land it but FSmash is important. Use Doc's cape physics to your advantage, Doc falls rather than stalling with his cape in the air, so short hop cape can be handy for projectiles so you can run and followup right away.

Overall he's really fun, probably a bit worse than Mario due to recovery issues and being a bit less well rounded, but definitely usable.

 

[Xinc]

Doc can definitely wall jump.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

He may fall faster?It feels that way.

 

[justincase145]

Hey! First post on smash boards.

Yeah I am really liking the Doc's shop bair, it just feels really nice. I've been running up and quickly turning around into a shopbair, to space people out. I'm also fairly terrible at smash in general, but I'm going to really put in work on SSB4. I finally took off tap-to-jump, and have been practicing my shops. Anyways I'll uhh see you guys around here.

 

[mayb]

This is useful for Doc's recovery. I haven't really messed around with wall jumping out of an up+b, but I don't think he can do it. Has anyone else figured out something new about Doc?

 

[_Magus_]

I wanted to collect what we've found so far, so please contribute!

Here's some data I posted on the Doc's kill moves:

-Fsmash: from the edge 90%, from center stage 120%

**The doc's most effective kill move. Most range, Most knockback. Pivoting can make this deadly.**

-Dsmash (Note: dsmash is weird bc the hit behind does more knockback than the hit in front)

From the front: edge: 130ish% center stage: 160%

From the back: edge: 100% center stage: 135ish%

**D smash is really weird. I've managed to punish rolls with it pretty well, but that's about all i can think of. F smash kills earlier and has more range.**

-Usmash: (Note: usmash has way more range from behind than front. Never try to hit with it from the front.)
from the edge: 115ish%, from center stage: 160%

**I've found that this is one of the doc's least effective kill moves, since it has less reach and takes more % before it works. I've relegated it exclusively to punishing missed up b's. Speaking of which...**

-Up B: from the edge: 125%, from center stage, 160%

**Up B comepletely outclasses u smash imo cuz it can be used oos. It also combos nicely at higher percents with downthrow :D**

-B Throw: from the edge: 150%, from center stage: don't even try, buddy

**B throw and Bair make the Doc quite dangerous near the edge, especially at higher percents, when a punish can result in a kill.
This is helpful for dealing with pesky little macs bc mac sucks near the edge **

-Bair: kills offstage at 150ish%

**You can kill with bair. If your b throw didn't do 'em in, jump off and give them a taste of some BACK AIR TO THE FACE!!!!
By far the Doc's most satisfying kill move.**


I've also found and heard some interesting stuff about Up B. Here's the rundown:

Up B looks like it's gonna be big. Like REALLY big. You can punish really effectively with it OOS, as well as do guaranteed 19% combo with D throw > Up b anytime they make the mistake of hitting your shield with something laggy.
This combo is special because it becomes safer as your opponent's damage rises. As their damage rises, d throw will have more knockback (duh), as will your up b. This knocks them further away, making it not matter that using Up B puts you in helpless mode. So at lower percents, punishing with a uair or bair string is the better idea. But once they hit around 45%, that combo comes online, and you can give em 19% for every mistake.

Somebody also figured out that after the first hit of up b, you can reverse the direction of Up B, which sounds like Marth's Dolphin Slash in Melee. I have yet to test this myself, but if if is true, up b can be used for some amazing mixups.

(EDIT: @ TTTTTsd found it. TTTTTsd, if you could elaborate, that would be awesome :D)

Nair

One more thing, the doc's reversed sexkick is back. It does 6% at first, and 9% at the end. The knockback at the end is also considerably greater.

So, got any info to share? if so, please do!

 

[Kisatamura]

TTTTTsd posted it I think. I'll try to see if a reversed UpB deals more knockback like Marth's, since I usually use a reversed UpB incase it gets blocked.

Dsmash is faster than Fsmash, which is about the only advantage in terms of kill power. The end of Dr Tornado can kill around 150-ish, and Dair should be around the same as well.

Edit: Dair doesn't kill for me until 210, though it gives nice knockback so you can do something like bair for edgeguard

 

[PolarPanda]

Doc is sure looking like combo galore, it'd be great if he had a kill move at a lower percentage though, but still seems really great with those combos.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

EDIT: Whoops wrong topic :/

 

[Dr.Mattio]

SH Back Air is nice, yes. It's better than Mario's as it has more knockback scaling. As for what I do with Doc....

Usually I like to throw pills to keep the space controlled, and then I go forward with a Nair or a grounded approach option. Granted this is all online so results may vary, but a lot of the times people like to leave their shields and try to attack after I space decently, and that's when I grab and the fun begins. D-Throw to Uair, while a short combo, lets you follow up with a mixup. While there's no TRUE combos after the UAir, if you read your opponent you can keep them guessing and hit them with more aerials. Another thing you'll need to learn is how to punish with FSmash, as it's super strong in this game. Fair is also good if you can land it but FSmash is important. Use Doc's cape physics to your advantage, Doc falls rather than stalling with his cape in the air, so short hop cape can be handy for projectiles so you can run and followup right away.

Overall he's really fun, probably a bit worse than Mario due to recovery issues and being a bit less well rounded, but definitely usable.

Dr. Mario's Down-B can be used as a recovery option. If you repeatedly press B, his tornado lifts him up.

 

[BBC7]

I myself like Short-Hop Doc Tornado as an aerial approach, it's pretty hard to punish and seems to have good priority. Doc Tornado doesn't have great recovery though, I only use it while off stage and airborne above the stage. I never use it to ledge grab because it usually fails me that way. Pills aren't spammable from what I've seen, they're really just tools to help you get in.

 

[justincase145]

Haha magnus with all that info you should just start on a guide
I hadn't really used up-b for anything other than recovery up to this point, but i'll definitely be tossing it in my throw combos from now on. Thanks!

 

[TonesBalones]

Both Dr. Mario have a custom Up-B which is shorter range and explosive. For Dr. Mario D throw combos into the explosive punch up to 120 % and it kills at around 100 for most characters. He can also combo into it at low percents with down throw, uair strings and Up-B. It does 25 damage with both hits.

 

[StarLight42]

Kind of a significant buff right there, he couldn't wall jump in melee

 

[TTTTTsd]

Gonna elaborate. Reversed Up+B isn't really good for much besides using Up+B as an offstage kill. Its KB is the same, but the real purpose is to kill offstage. Basically hold the opposite direction during the hitlag when you sweetspot Up+B and you can instantly turn around and go in the other direction. It's not really good for much beyond spacing (if you do it OoS and wanna clear distance) or as a gutsy edgeguard, but it works!

 

[LiamMail]

So is doc's hitbox just a spike sending opponents down like Mario's, or is it like the one from PM where it sends opponent up sideways? I am sure a lot of people want to know this

 

[_Magus_]

From what i've seen, it's like the one from PM. Only a situational kill move unfortunately

 

[_Magus_]

@ TTTTTsd too bad it ain't good for much else, but at least we have a sexy edgeguard, right? XD

 

[Suway]

Can someone link an example of Up-B kill potential, or usage in combos?
I'm struggling to see how it's supposed to be used.

 

[StarLight42]

It's not a spike or a meteor smash. It's just a really powerful hit if you connect with it right.

 

[UnsuspectingVillager]

It's like PM's. I've not really been able to get any spikes or meteor smashes off of it.

 

[JipC]

It's like PMs/Melees
Also would like to add that its a sweetspot now but the sourspot isn't actually that bad if you miss the sweetspot

 

[ZeroJanitor]

It's like Doc's fair in Melee, it sends people at an upward angle. Doesn't seem to have the same kill power as it did in Melee, unfortunately.

 

[Thegopher]

How is the hitstun on the pills in sm4sh? Obviously not melee standards but are they smash 4 standards?

 

[_Magus_]

They stun decently. Enough to interrupt whatever your opponent may be doing (with a few exceptions) and be annoying. Enough to gimp too :D

 

[StarLight42]

Respectable. Not sure how it compares to Melee though. (Besides being obviously a bit weaker)

 

[StarLight42]

Seeing so many complaints about Dr. Mario's recovery that this warrented a thread.

Well, it's as simple as that. A lot more vertical recovery when you use this. I know equipment will probably be banned in tournaments, but there is no reason custom moves should be banned, if they are, then wow, Smash 4 seems to be getting a pretty boring tournament scene.

 

[Anragon]

If you can DI AND VI correctly, you can pretty much make your recovery easier all the time by going as high as possible. The only problem is the fact that Doc has predictable paths to go back on stage.

 

[Cezz624]

Well, I agree it's pretty decent, I'm able to for example follow up with a up-tilt or sometimes even an OOS Up+B but it's rare. That's pretty much it. But the lag from shorthopping the pills really can't be followed.

 

[Dobbston]

I've managed to combo into jabs from a full hopped pill a couple times in training mode.

 

[NintenRob]

What makes it special, what is it meant to do, what is it normally like on Mario.

Its one of things that people got excited about Dr Mario, I'm just not sure what it is.

Also, it might not actually be a kick. Its one of his air moves though.

 

[Sir Bubbles]

The reverse sex kick is a move that only Doctor Mario had, it's the only sex kick in all of melee that got stronger the longer it was out, while everyone else's sex kick got weaker the longer it was out.

In Melee, it's alright for edgeguarding, but since Doc's bair and cape are so much better at doing the job anyway his nair became situational anyway.

So yeah, it's just that. It really isn't much to get excited about.

 

[DJWON]

So for a while, I've been testing Dr. Mario's up-b. Dr. Mario's Up-b OOS by itself is easily punishable, but when reversed it is easily a great OOS option.

Usually you will land with cool-down time after you use an up-b, so at low percents it easily punished because your opponent can chase after you after they land on the ground. B-reversing your up-b OOS allows you to gain more distance away from your opponent while covering both sides of your shield.

Also, Up-b reverse OOS is great while near a ledge, it allows you up-b your opponent, then reverse it and grab the ledge. Up-b reverse itself could also be a good way to end combos in that it deals %14. A standard combo would be soft nair into up-b reverse, giving you a defensive position after your offensive combo.

Here's an example: h ttp://i.imgur.com/O2Gg3N1.gif (sorry for the quality) As you see, I have enough time to send out a nair after punishing Lucina's nair.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Woah, woah, woah, woah.
This is so cool

I've acutually never seen his up B do that before (not the reverse bit, just for the fact it hits, THEN you reverse)

 

[Dobbston]

You can use this trick on Rosalina to hit both her and the luma and still get all the knockback.