Bahamut777
Smash Ace
people should stop callinh Halberd a small ceiling stage. it's only 2% lower than BF... <_<
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Each Ganon's personal MU-ratio 2010 - (Finished)
- Thread starter Z1GMA
- Start date
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
but a lot of stages are about as high ceiling-wise as neutrals, and you want every blastzone as small as possible against Lucario imo. Plus lucario isn't as vertically resistant to KOs as he is horizontally, which would make DA a pretty good late killer (relatively speaking, even DA is pretty powerful).
then again, I'm not sure this is the most accurate source lol, but I do know lots of characters like taking Lucario to this stage when they've got strong vertical killpower if stages like Brinstar/etc. are banned.
You're right.
However, the slopes at Halberd are a little situational compared to YI & LC.
Most parts of Halberg are flat.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Yeah that's pretty true unfortunately, there's a long portion where it's great for camping n' such b/c of how flat it is.
How about Brinstar? I hear this stage is mega gimmicky for Ganon, but also decent for Ganon in some ways.
How about Brinstar? I hear this stage is mega gimmicky for Ganon, but also decent for Ganon in some ways.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
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Brinstar imo actually sucks for Ganon in a lot of matchups who can control the stage much better than he can and probably benefit more from close blastzones, but "free" Ganoncides are fun.
Ganon really wishes that Norfair was legal though. Or PS2.
Ganon really wishes that Norfair was legal though. Or PS2.
Vs Z1GMA: ? - ?
Comment: I haven't faced enough good Lucarios to give my input.
A2ZOMG: 35/65
This is a very very annoying matchup but Ganon has just enough tools that winning isn't out of the question. Lucario poses fairly little offensive threat, and is honestly an overrated character. His pokes are generally not impressive in terms of speed and hitbox. His best hitboxes are on walls, but you never have to get hit by his walls if you want to play extremely gay. His other best offensive tool is his forward roll, which you can destroy with retreat D-airs while he doesn't really have any truly fast options that can punish that. Oh and his recovery sucks. Edgehog, ledgehop airdodge, and F-smash that ****. Generally speaking never approach him "unnecessarily", bait the forward roll a lot, and condition him into playing into your game, where he's on the defensive, and his wrong moves will be punished if read.
Terodactyl Yelnats: 40-60
Aside from Ganon vs Lucario matches taking seven minutes to finish, we don't do too bad against Lucario. In fact he's personally one of my most comfortable match-ups. Aura spheres are easy to powershield consistently and don't scare Ganons that much unless we're offstage. Lucario's approaches are to be laughed at, it'll almost always be a SH fair or Forward roll. Ganon ***** both of them hard with uair and dair respectively.
Do what A2Z said and just hang on that ledge until he UpB's onto it. Double Jump Airdodge Fsmash his being out of existance. Our Uair also ***** his recovery anyway so offstage is a death trap for him.
fonzi21
Smash Ace
Guys I would love to keep posting, but I'm very busy currently. I will see what I can come up with and post tomorrow or something on this one, but I won't be able to post all my MU's until sometime in OCT.
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Vs Z1GMA: ?-?
Comment: I haven't faced enough good Lucarios to give my input.
A2ZOMG: 35-65
This is a very very annoying matchup but Ganon has just enough tools that winning isn't out of the question. Lucario poses fairly little offensive threat, and is honestly an overrated character. His pokes are generally not impressive in terms of speed and hitbox. His best hitboxes are on walls, but you never have to get hit by his walls if you want to play extremely gay. His other best offensive tool is his forward roll, which you can destroy with retreat D-airs while he doesn't really have any truly fast options that can punish that. Oh and his recovery sucks. Edgehog, ledgehop airdodge, and F-smash that ****. Generally speaking never approach him "unnecessarily", bait the forward roll a lot, and condition him into playing into your game, where he's on the defensive, and his wrong moves will be punished if read.
Terodactyl Yelnats: 40-60
Aside from Ganon vs Lucario matches taking seven minutes to finish, we don't do too bad against Lucario. In fact he's personally one of my most comfortable match-ups. Aura spheres are easy to powershield consistently and don't scare Ganons that much unless we're offstage. Lucario's approaches are to be laughed at, it'll almost always be a SH fair or Forward roll. Ganon ***** both of them hard with uair and dair respectively.
Do what A2Z said and just hang on that ledge until he UpB's onto it. Double Jump Airdodge Fsmash his being out of existance. Our Uair also ***** his recovery anyway so offstage is a death trap for him.
DLA: 35-65
The worst part of this matchup is that Lucarios tend to be hard to punish onstage... just get them offstage and they're easy to edgeguard.
fonzi21
Smash Ace
This MU is ******** fun for Lucario. Things to Avoid.
Don't get grabbed at Low percents.
Watch getting Fair'ed on stage (when your about SH distance from the ground) at around 30-40% if I catch you with Fair Momentum I can fair Nair chain you if you don't have supreme DI. At lower percents you can Fast fall to a shield after the Nair or Fair depending on percent. But then I can mix-up grabs etc.
DO NOT just sit in shield all day. If you let me cross over on you and just get inside you will get ****ed up. My jab ***** everything you can do.
My Dair beats your Uair, so bait the Dair and Bair him from the SIDE. Dair comes out in 4 frames.
Everyone here is silly, Lucario is NOT easy to gimp unless you force him to UpB, if he has to Up B he needs to die, if not Good luck. Better Lucario's will just recover high against Ganon, because you really are no threat below me and your tipman is the only way to gimp me. Plus I can B-reversal in the Air to use the supreme distance of Bair to push you away. lucario has good options off the map. just a ****ty UpB
Lucario needs to die at around 80-100% if you get the first kill it's pretty much a win. and if you PS the Fsmash IDA is guaranteed.
I tried to keep it short and will save everything for the actual MU thread =D.
I dunno 30-70 Lucario's favor. This MU is tons of fun for me I promise lol. I love fighting Ganon hahaha,
EDIT: Also big note, just because Lucario UpB's onto the stage doesn't mean it is free hits, Lucario can cancel the landing lag on his UpB if we do it correctly. so be aware.
Don't get grabbed at Low percents.
Watch getting Fair'ed on stage (when your about SH distance from the ground) at around 30-40% if I catch you with Fair Momentum I can fair Nair chain you if you don't have supreme DI. At lower percents you can Fast fall to a shield after the Nair or Fair depending on percent. But then I can mix-up grabs etc.
DO NOT just sit in shield all day. If you let me cross over on you and just get inside you will get ****ed up. My jab ***** everything you can do.
My Dair beats your Uair, so bait the Dair and Bair him from the SIDE. Dair comes out in 4 frames.
Everyone here is silly, Lucario is NOT easy to gimp unless you force him to UpB, if he has to Up B he needs to die, if not Good luck. Better Lucario's will just recover high against Ganon, because you really are no threat below me and your tipman is the only way to gimp me. Plus I can B-reversal in the Air to use the supreme distance of Bair to push you away. lucario has good options off the map. just a ****ty UpB
Lucario needs to die at around 80-100% if you get the first kill it's pretty much a win. and if you PS the Fsmash IDA is guaranteed.
I tried to keep it short and will save everything for the actual MU thread =D.
I dunno 30-70 Lucario's favor. This MU is tons of fun for me I promise lol. I love fighting Ganon hahaha,
EDIT: Also big note, just because Lucario UpB's onto the stage doesn't mean it is free hits, Lucario can cancel the landing lag on his UpB if we do it correctly. so be aware.
Moving on:
Vs
Z1GMA: 10 - 90
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
Vs Z1GMA: 10 - 90
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Z1GMA: 10 - 90
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
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Z1GMA: 10 - 90
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
On paper, Olimar is one of the best, if not the best character in the game at stopping poor approach options like those of Ganondorf's. If you have to go up against a top Olimar player who knows this matchup, I'd probably wager you would lose.
But at any rate, Olimar dies very very quickly if he ever lets you get in. Easy to juggle, easy to edgeguard, and Ganon also has a ridiculously strong Flame Choke game on him where every known option out of choke works extremely well. There isn't anything I can say to approach him besides well...tricking him. Wizkick over grabs if he starts to get too predictable with them. Save double jump shenanigans for critical moments. Under the assumption that in an actual match that even good players will eventually get tricked under the right circumstances, this matchup can be very interesting for Ganon.
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
On paper, Olimar is one of the best, if not the best character in the game at stopping poor approach options like those of Ganondorf's. If you have to go up against a top Olimar player who knows this matchup, I'd probably wager you would lose.
But at any rate, Olimar dies very very quickly if he ever lets you get in. Easy to juggle, easy to edgeguard, and Ganon also has a ridiculously strong Flame Choke game on him where every known option out of choke works extremely well. There isn't anything I can say to approach him besides well...tricking him. Wizkick over grabs if he starts to get too predictable with them. Save double jump shenanigans for critical moments. Under the assumption that in an actual match that even good players will eventually get tricked under the right circumstances, this matchup can be very interesting for Ganon.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
wow, I knew wiz kick went over bananas, but it goes over oli grabs too?
that's pretty cool.
that's pretty cool.
Exalted
Smash Lord
Wizkick is the solution to many common problems such as wet floors and big potholes on the road.
Exalted
Smash Lord
Well, Olimar's smarter than Ike; while Ike fights for his friends, Olimar's friends fight for him.
GanonkingAbyss
Smash Apprentice
Abyss: 00:100
comment: its pretty much impossible to properly apprach him, and he gets free 40% and more form dthrow follow-ups , he can bait with short hop up b so dont go after him if he does that, he can also avoid the scond dsmash hit, incase not everyone knew. on the ddd boards i found out that his grab makes a unique sound so its better to guard to approach and jump when u hear that or something.
comment: its pretty much impossible to properly apprach him, and he gets free 40% and more form dthrow follow-ups , he can bait with short hop up b so dont go after him if he does that, he can also avoid the scond dsmash hit, incase not everyone knew. on the ddd boards i found out that his grab makes a unique sound so its better to guard to approach and jump when u hear that or something.
Z1GMA: 10 - 90
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
On paper, Olimar is one of the best, if not the best character in the game at stopping poor approach options like those of Ganondorf's. If you have to go up against a top Olimar player who knows this matchup, I'd probably wager you would lose.
But at any rate, Olimar dies very very quickly if he ever lets you get in. Easy to juggle, easy to edgeguard, and Ganon also has a ridiculously strong Flame Choke game on him where every known option out of choke works extremely well. There isn't anything I can say to approach him besides well...tricking him. Wizkick over grabs if he starts to get too predictable with them. Save double jump shenanigans for critical moments. Under the assumption that in an actual match that even good players will eventually get tricked under the right circumstances, this matchup can be very interesting for Ganon.
Abyss: 0:100
comment: its pretty much impossible to properly apprach him, and he gets free 40% and more form dthrow follow-ups , he can bait with short hop up b so dont go after him if he does that, he can also avoid the scond dsmash hit, incase not everyone knew. on the ddd boards i found out that his grab makes a unique sound so its better to guard to approach and jump when u hear that or something.
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
On paper, Olimar is one of the best, if not the best character in the game at stopping poor approach options like those of Ganondorf's. If you have to go up against a top Olimar player who knows this matchup, I'd probably wager you would lose.
But at any rate, Olimar dies very very quickly if he ever lets you get in. Easy to juggle, easy to edgeguard, and Ganon also has a ridiculously strong Flame Choke game on him where every known option out of choke works extremely well. There isn't anything I can say to approach him besides well...tricking him. Wizkick over grabs if he starts to get too predictable with them. Save double jump shenanigans for critical moments. Under the assumption that in an actual match that even good players will eventually get tricked under the right circumstances, this matchup can be very interesting for Ganon.
Abyss: 0:100
comment: its pretty much impossible to properly apprach him, and he gets free 40% and more form dthrow follow-ups , he can bait with short hop up b so dont go after him if he does that, he can also avoid the scond dsmash hit, incase not everyone knew. on the ddd boards i found out that his grab makes a unique sound so its better to guard to approach and jump when u hear that or something.
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
Z1GMA: 10 - 90
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
On paper, Olimar is one of the best, if not the best character in the game at stopping poor approach options like those of Ganondorf's. If you have to go up against a top Olimar player who knows this matchup, I'd probably wager you would lose.
But at any rate, Olimar dies very very quickly if he ever lets you get in. Easy to juggle, easy to edgeguard, and Ganon also has a ridiculously strong Flame Choke game on him where every known option out of choke works extremely well. There isn't anything I can say to approach him besides well...tricking him. Wizkick over grabs if he starts to get too predictable with them. Save double jump shenanigans for critical moments. Under the assumption that in an actual match that even good players will eventually get tricked under the right circumstances, this matchup can be very interesting for Ganon.
Abyss: 0:100
comment: its pretty much impossible to properly apprach him, and he gets free 40% and more form dthrow follow-ups , he can bait with short hop up b so dont go after him if he does that, he can also avoid the scond dsmash hit, incase not everyone knew. on the ddd boards i found out that his grab makes a unique sound so its better to guard to approach and jump when u hear that or something.
Terodactyl Yelnats: 20:80
I never thought the Ganon Olimar match-up was a 100-0, that's only when it's wifi. We can do so much stuff to Olimar that can make him rage and so can he. First off, you have to figure out what his method of stopping your approaches are. Grabs are the easiest to counter since his grab can only get a grounded character, Wizkick and Aerudo take care of that easy. (Never Wizkick towards him if there's Pikmin on you, slows you down A LOT) C stick spam is also not that hard to take care of, Dsmash SHOULD be taken care of naturally since it's slow, you only need to watch out for fsmash and usmash. Both are beat by Dash attack but it could risk a shield grab, mix it up after the first or second time. Wizkick also clashes with Olimar's fsmash, SideB or Dash attack him out of it.
Getting a Gerudo is still a challenge, but you should still be able to land a few with good mindgames and spacing mix ups. Take a minute to rejoice and bask in the beauty of Olimar in Ganon's Gerudo, just not when you're the one playing Olimar is dead when you can get one gerudo and know how to properly apply it. It's all aboot the follow ups, don't tech chase him. It's the threat of Ganon's Ftilt, Dsmash and Dash Attack that are the best to use. Let's face it, after a couple of Gerudo ftilts to an edgehog, Olimars will realize it and try to DI it up, similar to the dsmash. Now this is the best part about getting the the Gerudo, DI'ing up for the gerudo will also make them stand up. Give them a special reward of Charged Fsmash. This is what I'm talking about in this Match up, will they get gimped by the Ftilt and get 35% from the fsmash?
Getting Oli in the air is more of a priority than getting the sideB off. Uair him, there's nothing he can do. It beat every one of his aerials. He tries to airdodge through it? No problem, just grab him after you land. Do the same for DownB unless he B reversals away.
One thing you should never do, I mean never do. It's never worth it. Never try to dair. :/
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
On paper, Olimar is one of the best, if not the best character in the game at stopping poor approach options like those of Ganondorf's. If you have to go up against a top Olimar player who knows this matchup, I'd probably wager you would lose.
But at any rate, Olimar dies very very quickly if he ever lets you get in. Easy to juggle, easy to edgeguard, and Ganon also has a ridiculously strong Flame Choke game on him where every known option out of choke works extremely well. There isn't anything I can say to approach him besides well...tricking him. Wizkick over grabs if he starts to get too predictable with them. Save double jump shenanigans for critical moments. Under the assumption that in an actual match that even good players will eventually get tricked under the right circumstances, this matchup can be very interesting for Ganon.
Abyss: 0:100
comment: its pretty much impossible to properly apprach him, and he gets free 40% and more form dthrow follow-ups , he can bait with short hop up b so dont go after him if he does that, he can also avoid the scond dsmash hit, incase not everyone knew. on the ddd boards i found out that his grab makes a unique sound so its better to guard to approach and jump when u hear that or something.
Terodactyl Yelnats: 20:80
I never thought the Ganon Olimar match-up was a 100-0, that's only when it's wifi. We can do so much stuff to Olimar that can make him rage and so can he. First off, you have to figure out what his method of stopping your approaches are. Grabs are the easiest to counter since his grab can only get a grounded character, Wizkick and Aerudo take care of that easy. (Never Wizkick towards him if there's Pikmin on you, slows you down A LOT) C stick spam is also not that hard to take care of, Dsmash SHOULD be taken care of naturally since it's slow, you only need to watch out for fsmash and usmash. Both are beat by Dash attack but it could risk a shield grab, mix it up after the first or second time. Wizkick also clashes with Olimar's fsmash, SideB or Dash attack him out of it.
Getting a Gerudo is still a challenge, but you should still be able to land a few with good mindgames and spacing mix ups. Take a minute to rejoice and bask in the beauty of Olimar in Ganon's Gerudo, just not when you're the one playing
Olimar is dead when you can get one gerudo and know how to properly apply it. It's all aboot the follow ups, don't tech chase him. It's the threat of Ganon's Ftilt, Dsmash and Dash Attack that are the best to use. Let's face it, after a couple of Gerudo ftilts to an edgehog, Olimars will realize it and try to DI it up, similar to the dsmash. Now this is the best part about getting the the Gerudo, DI'ing up for the gerudo will also make them stand up. Give them a special reward of Charged Fsmash. This is what I'm talking about in this Match up, will they get gimped by the Ftilt and get 35% from the fsmash?Getting Oli in the air is more of a priority than getting the sideB off. Uair him, there's nothing he can do. It beat every one of his aerials. He tries to airdodge through it? No problem, just grab him after you land. Do the same for DownB unless he B reversals away.
One thing you should never do, I mean never do. It's never worth it. Never try to dair. :/
Bahamut777
Smash Ace
Z1GMA: 10 - 90
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
On paper, Olimar is one of the best, if not the best character in the game at stopping poor approach options like those of Ganondorf's. If you have to go up against a top Olimar player who knows this matchup, I'd probably wager you would lose.
But at any rate, Olimar dies very very quickly if he ever lets you get in. Easy to juggle, easy to edgeguard, and Ganon also has a ridiculously strong Flame Choke game on him where every known option out of choke works extremely well. There isn't anything I can say to approach him besides well...tricking him. Wizkick over grabs if he starts to get too predictable with them. Save double jump shenanigans for critical moments. Under the assumption that in an actual match that even good players will eventually get tricked under the right circumstances, this matchup can be very interesting for Ganon.
Abyss: 0:100
comment: its pretty much impossible to properly apprach him, and he gets free 40% and more form dthrow follow-ups , he can bait with short hop up b so dont go after him if he does that, he can also avoid the scond dsmash hit, incase not everyone knew. on the ddd boards i found out that his grab makes a unique sound so its better to guard to approach and jump when u hear that or something.
Terodactyl Yelnats: 20:80
I never thought the Ganon Olimar match-up was a 100-0, that's only when it's wifi. We can do so much stuff to Olimar that can make him rage and so can he. First off, you have to figure out what his method of stopping your approaches are. Grabs are the easiest to counter since his grab can only get a grounded character, Wizkick and Aerudo take care of that easy. (Never Wizkick towards him if there's Pikmin on you, slows you down A LOT) C stick spam is also not that hard to take care of, Dsmash SHOULD be taken care of naturally since it's slow, you only need to watch out for fsmash and usmash. Both are beat by Dash attack but it could risk a shield grab, mix it up after the first or second time. Wizkick also clashes with Olimar's fsmash, SideB or Dash attack him out of it.
Getting a Gerudo is still a challenge, but you should still be able to land a few with good mindgames and spacing mix ups. Take a minute to rejoice and bask in the beauty of Olimar in Ganon's Gerudo, just not when you're the one playing Olimar is dead when you can get one gerudo and know how to properly apply it. It's all aboot the follow ups, don't tech chase him. It's the threat of Ganon's Ftilt, Dsmash and Dash Attack that are the best to use. Let's face it, after a couple of Gerudo ftilts to an edgehog, Olimars will realize it and try to DI it up, similar to the dsmash. Now this is the best part about getting the the Gerudo, DI'ing up for the gerudo will also make them stand up. Give them a special reward of Charged Fsmash. This is what I'm talking about in this Match up, will they get gimped by the Ftilt and get 35% from the fsmash?
Getting Oli in the air is more of a priority than getting the sideB off. Uair him, there's nothing he can do. It beat every one of his aerials. He tries to airdodge through it? No problem, just grab him after you land. Do the same for DownB unless he B reversals away.
One thing you should never do, I mean never do. It's never worth it. Never try to dair. :/
Bahamut:10-90
Comment: The worst problem is approaching in middle of a ton of pivot grabs, shield grabs, pikmin toss and likes. It's almost as impossible as Falco. When you approach him, you land one or two hits and then you're again in spacial disadvantage. If you can, however, score a Gerudo, then you can land FTilt to start the offstage game, which is our best option against Olimar, and DSmash, altho it's only useful one or two times. After that, you only use it to give nightmares to your opponent by punishing his "DI Up->Get Up". UAir is our best tool against an airborne or offstage Olimar. Also, I think Dash Attack can be very effective to take pikmin off you. DAir lags on pikmins that are on you, so you can, once in a while, try to mindgame him into grabbing you and then lag eternity on his head with a DAir.
We HAVE tools against him, but he's so safe we can't use them.
Comment: All of Olimar's attacks look the same, and most of 'em ***** us.
He has no problem killing us when it comes to Attack Power.
Though, Ganon can destroy Olimar if he gets inside.
And we're good at gimping him WHEN we get the opportunity.
DLA: 20 - 80
Likely even better. This matchup would be absolutely horrible if it wasn't for the fact that a top Ganon should be killing Oli at 50-70% for the majority of his stocks. Gerudo->Ftilt is BRUTAL in this matchup, it will kill at 50% or maybe even less if you land it anywhere near the edge. Always try Gerudo->Dsmash too, to see if they know how to DI out of it. It's almost impossible to land Gerudos if you're intimidated by Olimar's "sphere of influence" as I like to call it, or the area around Olimar that his hitboxes can reach. Just fight a lot of Olimars so that you can find the small windows of opportunity.
Also, getting Oli in the air is important, as that's where he's most vulnerable. And try especially hard not to get grabbed at very low percents if you can avoid it, or else he'll combo you to like 30-40%.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
On paper, Olimar is one of the best, if not the best character in the game at stopping poor approach options like those of Ganondorf's. If you have to go up against a top Olimar player who knows this matchup, I'd probably wager you would lose.
But at any rate, Olimar dies very very quickly if he ever lets you get in. Easy to juggle, easy to edgeguard, and Ganon also has a ridiculously strong Flame Choke game on him where every known option out of choke works extremely well. There isn't anything I can say to approach him besides well...tricking him. Wizkick over grabs if he starts to get too predictable with them. Save double jump shenanigans for critical moments. Under the assumption that in an actual match that even good players will eventually get tricked under the right circumstances, this matchup can be very interesting for Ganon.
Abyss: 0:100
comment: its pretty much impossible to properly apprach him, and he gets free 40% and more form dthrow follow-ups , he can bait with short hop up b so dont go after him if he does that, he can also avoid the scond dsmash hit, incase not everyone knew. on the ddd boards i found out that his grab makes a unique sound so its better to guard to approach and jump when u hear that or something.
Terodactyl Yelnats: 20:80
I never thought the Ganon Olimar match-up was a 100-0, that's only when it's wifi. We can do so much stuff to Olimar that can make him rage and so can he. First off, you have to figure out what his method of stopping your approaches are. Grabs are the easiest to counter since his grab can only get a grounded character, Wizkick and Aerudo take care of that easy. (Never Wizkick towards him if there's Pikmin on you, slows you down A LOT) C stick spam is also not that hard to take care of, Dsmash SHOULD be taken care of naturally since it's slow, you only need to watch out for fsmash and usmash. Both are beat by Dash attack but it could risk a shield grab, mix it up after the first or second time. Wizkick also clashes with Olimar's fsmash, SideB or Dash attack him out of it.
Getting a Gerudo is still a challenge, but you should still be able to land a few with good mindgames and spacing mix ups. Take a minute to rejoice and bask in the beauty of Olimar in Ganon's Gerudo, just not when you're the one playing
Olimar is dead when you can get one gerudo and know how to properly apply it. It's all aboot the follow ups, don't tech chase him. It's the threat of Ganon's Ftilt, Dsmash and Dash Attack that are the best to use. Let's face it, after a couple of Gerudo ftilts to an edgehog, Olimars will realize it and try to DI it up, similar to the dsmash. Now this is the best part about getting the the Gerudo, DI'ing up for the gerudo will also make them stand up. Give them a special reward of Charged Fsmash. This is what I'm talking about in this Match up, will they get gimped by the Ftilt and get 35% from the fsmash?Getting Oli in the air is more of a priority than getting the sideB off. Uair him, there's nothing he can do. It beat every one of his aerials. He tries to airdodge through it? No problem, just grab him after you land. Do the same for DownB unless he B reversals away.
One thing you should never do, I mean never do. It's never worth it. Never try to dair. :/
Bahamut:10-90
Comment: The worst problem is approaching in middle of a ton of pivot grabs, shield grabs, pikmin toss and likes. It's almost as impossible as Falco. When you approach him, you land one or two hits and then you're again in spacial disadvantage. If you can, however, score a Gerudo, then you can land FTilt to start the offstage game, which is our best option against Olimar, and DSmash, altho it's only useful one or two times. After that, you only use it to give nightmares to your opponent by punishing his "DI Up->Get Up". UAir is our best tool against an airborne or offstage Olimar. Also, I think Dash Attack can be very effective to take pikmin off you. DAir lags on pikmins that are on you, so you can, once in a while, try to mindgame him into grabbing you and then lag eternity on his head with a DAir.
We HAVE tools against him, but he's so safe we can't use them.
GanonkingAbyss
Smash Apprentice
does the last part of ganon's uair beat olimars?, this probably isnt the right thread, but im just wondering
Vs 
Z1GMA: 25 - 75
Comment: His Chain Grab on us at low % is annoying and deals a lot of free damage.
Aside from that, we can challenge Pikachu's hand-to-hand Combat without too much trouble.
His Jolt Camping is really the only thing we have some problems with.
If he starts flying all over the place using Quick Attack... Well, his loss.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
Vs Z1GMA: 25 - 75
Comment: His Chain Grab on us at low % is annoying and deals a lot of free damage.
Aside from that, we can challenge Pikachu's hand-to-hand Combat without too much trouble.
His Jolt Camping is really the only thing we have some problems with.
If he starts flying all over the place using Quick Attack... Well, his loss.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
Two things make this matchup bad for Ganon. Pikachu has a chaingrab on Ganon, and he's also a small target. The former honestly is old news which alone I would care little about, but the latter makes him a very annoyingly hard target to space against, especially when you consider his mobility. He's lightweight, which helps KO him assuming you can land Flame Chokes on him reliably, but he is very hard to edgeguard, and his 20/22 spotdodge is also very annoying for Ganon to deal with. Plus, he doesn't actually have too much trouble KOing Ganon through edgeguards.
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Z1GMA: 25 - 75
Comment: His Chain Grab on us at low % is annoying and deals a lot of free damage.
Aside from that, we can challenge Pikachu's hand-to-hand Combat without too much trouble.
His Jolt Camping is really the only thing we have some problems with.
If he starts flying all over the place using Quick Attack... Well, his loss.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
Two things make this matchup bad for Ganon. Pikachu has a chaingrab on Ganon, and he's also a small target. The former honestly is old news which alone I would care little about, but the latter makes him a very annoyingly hard target to space against, especially when you consider his mobility. He's lightweight, which helps KO him assuming you can land Flame Chokes on him reliably, but he is very hard to edgeguard, and his 20/22 spotdodge is also very annoying for Ganon to deal with. Plus, he doesn't actually have too much trouble KOing Ganon through edgeguards.
DLA: 30-70
He's a small character who can camp, chain grab, juggle, and edgeguard Ganon very well. Almost half of the cast is in the same exact situation though. Camping isn't that big of a deal when you're in the lead--his jolts are slow and very easy to predict and powershield. When it gets down to the real nitty-gritty, most Pikas are going to be scared as hell to get near Ganon, because in general, our moves beat his out. Pika's aerials are quick, last a long time, and tend to be kinda weird and hard to predict if you don't have MU experience. But if you know the aerials are coming, you should be able to match them because his hitboxes are pretty small. In general, Pika's game is actually kinda like MK, except his moves aren't disjointed so you can actually beat them out.
Comment: His Chain Grab on us at low % is annoying and deals a lot of free damage.
Aside from that, we can challenge Pikachu's hand-to-hand Combat without too much trouble.
His Jolt Camping is really the only thing we have some problems with.
If he starts flying all over the place using Quick Attack... Well, his loss.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
Two things make this matchup bad for Ganon. Pikachu has a chaingrab on Ganon, and he's also a small target. The former honestly is old news which alone I would care little about, but the latter makes him a very annoyingly hard target to space against, especially when you consider his mobility. He's lightweight, which helps KO him assuming you can land Flame Chokes on him reliably, but he is very hard to edgeguard, and his 20/22 spotdodge is also very annoying for Ganon to deal with. Plus, he doesn't actually have too much trouble KOing Ganon through edgeguards.
DLA: 30-70
He's a small character who can camp, chain grab, juggle, and edgeguard Ganon very well. Almost half of the cast is in the same exact situation though. Camping isn't that big of a deal when you're in the lead--his jolts are slow and very easy to predict and powershield. When it gets down to the real nitty-gritty, most Pikas are going to be scared as hell to get near Ganon, because in general, our moves beat his out. Pika's aerials are quick, last a long time, and tend to be kinda weird and hard to predict if you don't have MU experience. But if you know the aerials are coming, you should be able to match them because his hitboxes are pretty small. In general, Pika's game is actually kinda like MK, except his moves aren't disjointed so you can actually beat them out.
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
Z1GMA: 25 - 75
Comment: His Chain Grab on us at low % is annoying and deals a lot of free damage.
Aside from that, we can challenge Pikachu's hand-to-hand Combat without too much trouble.
His Jolt Camping is really the only thing we have some problems with.
If he starts flying all over the place using Quick Attack... Well, his loss.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
Two things make this matchup bad for Ganon. Pikachu has a chaingrab on Ganon, and he's also a small target. The former honestly is old news which alone I would care little about, but the latter makes him a very annoyingly hard target to space against, especially when you consider his mobility. He's lightweight, which helps KO him assuming you can land Flame Chokes on him reliably, but he is very hard to edgeguard, and his 20/22 spotdodge is also very annoying for Ganon to deal with. Plus, he doesn't actually have too much trouble KOing Ganon through edgeguards.
DLA: 30-70
He's a small character who can camp, chain grab, juggle, and edgeguard Ganon very well. Almost half of the cast is in the same exact situation though. Camping isn't that big of a deal when you're in the lead--his jolts are slow and very easy to predict and powershield. When it gets down to the real nitty-gritty, most Pikas are going to be scared as hell to get near Ganon, because in general, our moves beat his out. Pika's aerials are quick, last a long time, and tend to be kinda weird and hard to predict if you don't have MU experience. But if you know the aerials are coming, you should be able to match them because his hitboxes are pretty small. In general, Pika's game is actually kinda like MK, except his moves aren't disjointed so you can actually beat them out.
Terodactyl Yelnats: 20:80
Pika can chain grab Ganon until 90% including the damage of nair. That's why you never dtilt Pika, EVER. You'll get shield grab *****. Can't kill with SideB Dash attack until over 100% because of Pika's great fast fall. Can't gimp Pika with that godly upB distance. Not fond of this Match Up :/
Comment: His Chain Grab on us at low % is annoying and deals a lot of free damage.
Aside from that, we can challenge Pikachu's hand-to-hand Combat without too much trouble.
His Jolt Camping is really the only thing we have some problems with.
If he starts flying all over the place using Quick Attack... Well, his loss.
A2ZOMG: 25/75
Two things make this matchup bad for Ganon. Pikachu has a chaingrab on Ganon, and he's also a small target. The former honestly is old news which alone I would care little about, but the latter makes him a very annoyingly hard target to space against, especially when you consider his mobility. He's lightweight, which helps KO him assuming you can land Flame Chokes on him reliably, but he is very hard to edgeguard, and his 20/22 spotdodge is also very annoying for Ganon to deal with. Plus, he doesn't actually have too much trouble KOing Ganon through edgeguards.
DLA: 30-70
He's a small character who can camp, chain grab, juggle, and edgeguard Ganon very well. Almost half of the cast is in the same exact situation though. Camping isn't that big of a deal when you're in the lead--his jolts are slow and very easy to predict and powershield. When it gets down to the real nitty-gritty, most Pikas are going to be scared as hell to get near Ganon, because in general, our moves beat his out. Pika's aerials are quick, last a long time, and tend to be kinda weird and hard to predict if you don't have MU experience. But if you know the aerials are coming, you should be able to match them because his hitboxes are pretty small. In general, Pika's game is actually kinda like MK, except his moves aren't disjointed so you can actually beat them out.
Terodactyl Yelnats: 20:80
Pika can chain grab Ganon until 90% including the damage of nair. That's why you never dtilt Pika, EVER. You'll get shield grab *****. Can't kill with SideB Dash attack until over 100% because of Pika's great fast fall. Can't gimp Pika with that godly upB distance. Not fond of this Match Up :/
Vs Z1GMA: 17 - 83
Comment: Kirby has a good Ground Game as well as a good Air Game.
He's also very mobile, and can get under our skin without too much trouble.
His Fthrow Combos at low% gives him a 50%+ lead.
Then, all Kirby has to do is to deal another 50% damage and we're at 100%.
Here's were the biggest problem of this MU kicks in... HIS FSMASH...
Normaly, we Ganons can survive for hours against even the campiest/gayest opponents,
with proper DI.
However, not here. His Fsmash is absurd, and it's not that hard to land on Ganon.
On top of all this, his Gimp Game is, not great, but good... While we can't gimp him.
Our pros are: Anti Ari'ing and sick Gerudo Possibilites.
smashkng
Smash Lord
SMASHKNG: 35/65
Z1GMA I'm not too sure but I think you SDI out of those combos. And shield the Fsmashes? They're pretty predictable. I think what gives more trouble is the Bair that does also have a disjoint, but I'm not too sure if our Uair can prevent him from spamming it. And always tilt Fsmashes down if he's in the ground, neutral angled can get crouched under. Kirby is really light as well so we can kill him very early, plus he has terrible rolls and we have many true Gerudo follow-up combos on him. The problem is that he's an annoyingly small target.
Z1GMA I'm not too sure but I think you SDI out of those combos. And shield the Fsmashes? They're pretty predictable. I think what gives more trouble is the Bair that does also have a disjoint, but I'm not too sure if our Uair can prevent him from spamming it. And always tilt Fsmashes down if he's in the ground, neutral angled can get crouched under. Kirby is really light as well so we can kill him very early, plus he has terrible rolls and we have many true Gerudo follow-up combos on him. The problem is that he's an annoyingly small target.
Funfact: All attacks in the game can be shielded.
Grabs excluded.
Also, RCO-lag... Ring a bell?
Only Kirby Scrubs are predictable with their Fsmash.
Watch Tonsana's Kirby in action.
He doesn't main him, but he knows how to use him well.
That statement makes no sense.
Staled Bairs is a bigger threat than Fsmash when we're at 100% (?)
Speaking of his Bair - Our Bair destroys it.
smashkng
Smash Lord
RCO lag? He still need to read in order to hit with the Fsmash, get-up with attack or roll and/or learn to land onstage with double jump AD. And Kirby's Fsmash doesn't kill at 100% if we keep a good DI, more like 110-115% near the edge and fresh.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
Vs Z1GMA: 17 - 83
Comment: Kirby has a good Ground Game as well as a good Air Game.
He's also very mobile, and can get under our skin without too much trouble.
His Fthrow Combos at low% gives him a 50%+ lead.
Then, all Kirby has to do is to deal another 50% damage and we're at 100%.
Here's were the biggest problem of this MU kicks in... HIS FSMASH...
Normaly, we Ganons can survive for hours against even the campiest/gayest opponents,
with proper DI.
However, not here. His Fsmash is absurd, and it's not that hard to land on Ganon.
On top of all this, his Gimp Game is, not great, but good... While we can't gimp him.
Our pros are: Anti Ari'ing and sick Gerudo Possibilites.
SMASHKNG: 35/65
Z1GMA I'm not too sure but I think you SDI out of those combos. And shield the Fsmashes? They're pretty predictable. I think what gives more trouble is the Bair that does also have a disjoint, but I'm not too sure if our Uair can prevent him from spamming it. And always tilt Fsmashes down if he's in the ground, neutral angled can get crouched under. Kirby is really light as well so we can kill him very early, plus he has terrible rolls and we have many true Gerudo follow-up combos on him. The problem is that he's an annoyingly small target.
A2ZOMG: 3/7
Statistically, Kirby shouldn't give Ganon very many problems, except for the fact that his crouch avoids most of Ganon's moves. Considering that, he can break Ganon's zoning more easily than he should. He's also pretty good at gimping Ganon, but as compensation, Ganon has good edgeguards on him too.
A Kirby who plays aerial spacing isn't that hard to deal with as long as you have good spacing and aren't afraid to try deliberately powershielding his B-air. Oh and Ganon's choke game is good on Kirby. But anyhow, a Kirby who just waits and crouches a lot is very annoyingly hard for Ganon to deal with.
By the way, Kirby's throw combos can be easily SDIed on reaction. They don't **** anyone.
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
Vs Z1GMA: 17 - 83
Comment: Kirby has a good Ground Game as well as a good Air Game.
He's also very mobile, and can get under our skin without too much trouble.
His Fthrow Combos at low% gives him a 50%+ lead.
Then, all Kirby has to do is to deal another 50% damage and we're at 100%.
Here's were the biggest problem of this MU kicks in... HIS FSMASH...
Normaly, we Ganons can survive for hours against even the campiest/gayest opponents,
with proper DI.
However, not here. His Fsmash is absurd, and it's not that hard to land on Ganon.
On top of all this, his Gimp Game is, not great, but good... While we can't gimp him.
Our pros are: Anti Ari'ing and sick Gerudo Possibilites.
SMASHKNG: 35/65
Z1GMA I'm not too sure but I think you SDI out of those combos. And shield the Fsmashes? They're pretty predictable. I think what gives more trouble is the Bair that does also have a disjoint, but I'm not too sure if our Uair can prevent him from spamming it. And always tilt Fsmashes down if he's in the ground, neutral angled can get crouched under. Kirby is really light as well so we can kill him very early, plus he has terrible rolls and we have many true Gerudo follow-up combos on him. The problem is that he's an annoyingly small target.
A2ZOMG: 3/7
Statistically, Kirby shouldn't give Ganon very many problems, except for the fact that his crouch avoids most of Ganon's moves. Considering that, he can break Ganon's zoning more easily than he should. He's also pretty good at gimping Ganon, but as compensation, Ganon has good edgeguards on him too.
A Kirby who plays aerial spacing isn't that hard to deal with as long as you have good spacing and aren't afraid to try deliberately powershielding his B-air. Oh and Ganon's choke game is good on Kirby. But anyhow, a Kirby who just waits and crouches a lot is very annoyingly hard for Ganon to deal with.
By the way, Kirby's throw combos can be easily SDIed on reaction. They don't **** anyone.
Terodactyl Yelnats 35:65
At first I thought Kirby was the absolute worst thing for Ganon. Kirby's fastfalled bair can't be punished, his dair will **** you offstage, his utilt is annoying as all hell, and he'll shieldgrab everything.
But really, everything he does can be countered just by learning the match-up. If you don't know, prepare to be ***** silly by a good Kirby.Kirby's spaced bair can be spaced to hit with the absolute tip or with the middle of his feet. Use a pivot grab and an fsmash for those spacings respectively. Fsmash has a good lean back property that dodges perfect spaced attacks.
SDI his fthow > uair up and away to double jump, or you can do the Tero and SDI only up and use downB. If he dair edgeguards you'll have to react to it. SDI away from the stage and up if you're close and close to the stage and up for far away.
But our sideB, holy dang I love it here. It pisses off all the Kirby's I know. Kirby is the only character that is frighteningly easy to chainchoke. It's really easy to powershield his get up attack on reaction and his get up rolls are really short and laggy. <3 Kirby in Ganon sideB. Then we can just Dash attack him.
It's near impossible for Heavy characters to consistantly SDI out of the first loop of
Fthrow -> Uair -> Regrab.
Your SDI needs to be perfect, and you need luck for the Kirby Player to not be able to do his job.
The second loop is easy to SDI out off, though.
My bad.
He should be able to deal like 30% in one sweep then.
Not really that much, but he can chase us after our SDI, after the first loop, and then punish our Counter Attempt/Escape without too much trouble.
EDIT: Due to this, I'll change my ratio to 20 - 80 instead of 17 - 83.
Fthrow -> Uair -> Regrab.
Your SDI needs to be perfect, and you need luck for the Kirby Player to not be able to do his job.
The second loop is easy to SDI out off, though.
My bad.
He should be able to deal like 30% in one sweep then.
Not really that much, but he can chase us after our SDI, after the first loop, and then punish our Counter Attempt/Escape without too much trouble.
EDIT: Due to this, I'll change my ratio to 20 - 80 instead of 17 - 83.
Tonsana
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2008
- Messages
- 175
Z1GMA: 17 - 83
Comment: Kirby has a good Ground Game as well as a good Air Game.
He's also very mobile, and can get under our skin without too much trouble.
His Fthrow Combos at low% gives him a 50%+ lead.
Then, all Kirby has to do is to deal another 50% damage and we're at 100%.
Here's were the biggest problem of this MU kicks in... HIS FSMASH...
Normaly, we Ganons can survive for hours against even the campiest/gayest opponents,
with proper DI.
However, not here. His Fsmash is absurd, and it's not that hard to land on Ganon.
On top of all this, his Gimp Game is, not great, but good... While we can't gimp him.
Our pros are: Anti Ari'ing and sick Gerudo Possibilites.
SMASHKNG: 35/65
Z1GMA I'm not too sure but I think you SDI out of those combos. And shield the Fsmashes? They're pretty predictable. I think what gives more trouble is the Bair that does also have a disjoint, but I'm not too sure if our Uair can prevent him from spamming it. And always tilt Fsmashes down if he's in the ground, neutral angled can get crouched under. Kirby is really light as well so we can kill him very early, plus he has terrible rolls and we have many true Gerudo follow-up combos on him. The problem is that he's an annoyingly small target.
A2ZOMG: 3/7
Statistically, Kirby shouldn't give Ganon very many problems, except for the fact that his crouch avoids most of Ganon's moves. Considering that, he can break Ganon's zoning more easily than he should. He's also pretty good at gimping Ganon, but as compensation, Ganon has good edgeguards on him too.
A Kirby who plays aerial spacing isn't that hard to deal with as long as you have good spacing and aren't afraid to try deliberately powershielding his B-air. Oh and Ganon's choke game is good on Kirby. But anyhow, a Kirby who just waits and crouches a lot is very annoyingly hard for Ganon to deal with.
By the way, Kirby's throw combos can be easily SDIed on reaction. They don't **** anyone.
Terodactyl Yelnats 35:65
At first I thought Kirby was the absolute worst thing for Ganon. Kirby's fastfalled bair can't be punished, his dair will **** you offstage, his utilt is annoying as all hell, and he'll shieldgrab everything.
But really, everything he does can be countered just by learning the match-up. If you don't know, prepare to be ***** silly by a good Kirby.Kirby's spaced bair can be spaced to hit with the absolute tip or with the middle of his feet. Use a pivot grab and an fsmash for those spacings respectively. Fsmash has a good lean back property that dodges perfect spaced attacks.
SDI his fthow > uair up and away to double jump, or you can do the Tero and SDI only up and use downB. If he dair edgeguards you'll have to react to it. SDI away from the stage and up if you're close and close to the stage and up for far away.
But our sideB, holy dang I love it here. It pisses off all the Kirby's I know. Kirby is the only character that is frighteningly easy to chainchoke. It's really easy to powershield his get up attack on reaction and his get up rolls are really short and laggy. <3 Kirby in Ganon sideB. Then we can just Dash attack him.
Tonsana 25:75
Hmm...Kirby is light but ganon should have a hard time hitting Kirby cus he is so small. Once Kirby is inside ganon he will wreck him with Utilts and Dtilts and grabs. This is good dmg for kirby on low % and on higher % bairs and other stupid airials like uairs and dairs will make ganons % go up quick. Once ganons % is over like 100% kirby does some random fsmash and from there kirby will gimp you with bairs and dairs...
Ganon should try to hit vertical and avoid hiting him horizontinal.
Comment: Kirby has a good Ground Game as well as a good Air Game.
He's also very mobile, and can get under our skin without too much trouble.
His Fthrow Combos at low% gives him a 50%+ lead.
Then, all Kirby has to do is to deal another 50% damage and we're at 100%.
Here's were the biggest problem of this MU kicks in... HIS FSMASH...
Normaly, we Ganons can survive for hours against even the campiest/gayest opponents,
with proper DI.
However, not here. His Fsmash is absurd, and it's not that hard to land on Ganon.
On top of all this, his Gimp Game is, not great, but good... While we can't gimp him.
Our pros are: Anti Ari'ing and sick Gerudo Possibilites.
SMASHKNG: 35/65
Z1GMA I'm not too sure but I think you SDI out of those combos. And shield the Fsmashes? They're pretty predictable. I think what gives more trouble is the Bair that does also have a disjoint, but I'm not too sure if our Uair can prevent him from spamming it. And always tilt Fsmashes down if he's in the ground, neutral angled can get crouched under. Kirby is really light as well so we can kill him very early, plus he has terrible rolls and we have many true Gerudo follow-up combos on him. The problem is that he's an annoyingly small target.
A2ZOMG: 3/7
Statistically, Kirby shouldn't give Ganon very many problems, except for the fact that his crouch avoids most of Ganon's moves. Considering that, he can break Ganon's zoning more easily than he should. He's also pretty good at gimping Ganon, but as compensation, Ganon has good edgeguards on him too.
A Kirby who plays aerial spacing isn't that hard to deal with as long as you have good spacing and aren't afraid to try deliberately powershielding his B-air. Oh and Ganon's choke game is good on Kirby. But anyhow, a Kirby who just waits and crouches a lot is very annoyingly hard for Ganon to deal with.
By the way, Kirby's throw combos can be easily SDIed on reaction. They don't **** anyone.
Terodactyl Yelnats 35:65
At first I thought Kirby was the absolute worst thing for Ganon. Kirby's fastfalled bair can't be punished, his dair will **** you offstage, his utilt is annoying as all hell, and he'll shieldgrab everything.
But really, everything he does can be countered just by learning the match-up. If you don't know, prepare to be ***** silly by a good Kirby.Kirby's spaced bair can be spaced to hit with the absolute tip or with the middle of his feet. Use a pivot grab and an fsmash for those spacings respectively. Fsmash has a good lean back property that dodges perfect spaced attacks.
SDI his fthow > uair up and away to double jump, or you can do the Tero and SDI only up and use downB. If he dair edgeguards you'll have to react to it. SDI away from the stage and up if you're close and close to the stage and up for far away.
But our sideB, holy dang I love it here. It pisses off all the Kirby's I know. Kirby is the only character that is frighteningly easy to chainchoke. It's really easy to powershield his get up attack on reaction and his get up rolls are really short and laggy. <3 Kirby in Ganon sideB. Then we can just Dash attack him.
Tonsana 25:75
Hmm...Kirby is light but ganon should have a hard time hitting Kirby cus he is so small. Once Kirby is inside ganon he will wreck him with Utilts and Dtilts and grabs. This is good dmg for kirby on low % and on higher % bairs and other stupid airials like uairs and dairs will make ganons % go up quick. Once ganons % is over like 100% kirby does some random fsmash and from there kirby will gimp you with bairs and dairs...
Ganon should try to hit vertical and avoid hiting him horizontinal.
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
I quarter circle DI out of the uair and you can escape the regrab ok.
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
Yo dis da Kirby.- Find Twilight Princess and you will get ALL the Kirby/Ganon MU info you'll ever need.
Kirby is light which is favorable for Ganon, anything you read w/ shield is going to send him offstage where you just have to wait w/ DAirs. SideB is mad broken. If you SDI/DI out of the grab combo, it can be changed to FThrow>UAir> FTilt angled up and it'll get a little extra % on the combo plus it'll space for us.
But Kirby winz because we crouch, never approach, and gimp. I'd say Large Disadvantage for Ganon, if you needed a ratio, 23-77.
Kirby is light which is favorable for Ganon, anything you read w/ shield is going to send him offstage where you just have to wait w/ DAirs. SideB is mad broken. If you SDI/DI out of the grab combo, it can be changed to FThrow>UAir> FTilt angled up and it'll get a little extra % on the combo plus it'll space for us.
But Kirby winz because we crouch, never approach, and gimp. I'd say Large Disadvantage for Ganon, if you needed a ratio, 23-77.
Triple R
Smash Lord
You know what I do when a Ganon gets a side b? I just sit there lol. If they want to hit me with something they will do it right with dtilt or something. By me just sitting there chainchoking is non existent. Most of the Ganons I have played just get confused and try to do something weird that I punish when I do get up. Getting a side b against a good Kirby is pretty hard too.
Exalted
Smash Lord
Or if you just sit there and they read your "move" you eat an elbow.
You quoted the wrong person.
Anyway... You can't lie the forever.
After like 7 second or so, you will automaticly rise.
TP
Smash Master
I've never met an opponent I had a hard time choking, except for people who play Jiggs/G&W/ICs. I've played people like ESA.M and Atom.sk (namesearch dodging lol) and various other pros. EVERYBODY falls for dash dance > choke. Everybody.