Evaluation/Help your G&W,Video Critique Thread,Updated (11-01-09))

[kewl]

lol ok we should totally stop the spam in here and take it to the social thread.

someone upload some vids for me to critique. (:

 

[moyshe]

oh snap.....its this better for u soviet?

yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

 

[PentaSalia]

no more spam please >.<

 

[PentaSalia]

i hope i can get some good offline vids of myself in these next 2 tourneys coming up

hopefully PGN brings his recording device too :V

<3

 

[Splice]

No more spam please, and then you double post xP lol.

Has anyone posted vids of vsing Falcos? Because it appears to me some of you have problems with Falcos, maybe if you critiqued each others matches you could find out what you're doing wrong, because the MU shouldn't be that bad right? I dont really know, I've never played a good Falco.

 

[PentaSalia]

errr i think zac has faced larry recently,he didnt do so well tho

i think there are other G&W's that have faced decent falcos....idk tho >.<

andd bump

 

[derkapalooza]

here is a set from a recent tourney vs a lucario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCkQbiAXlNg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtq67JgJDrE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M_mWVfgDjU

lemme know how im going guys!

 

[PentaSalia]

here is a set from a recent tourney vs a lucario.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtq67JgJDrE


lemme know how im going guys!

saw the second one vs lucario
you're approaches lack in this MU alot
u hardly bair'd at all,you did more nairs and dashes which can be easily punished if blocked by lucario like...here
a bair would have been perfect there. You did this plenty of more times before and after as well.You also didnt bair enough when you got the lead. Most people get more aggresive when they're behind a stock but lucario usually gets more campy since he lacks in approaching, you should have baited him more.Some of your approaches seemed halfed baked too, like you weren't sure it would work,but u went for it anyway,in hope of some damage.. Be patient

Bacon is only really good for an edgeguard or a surprise tactic. In other words,you used it too many times lol
oh also, if you bair lucario and you know the last hit of bair isn't going to land like here, you can try and up and B out to avoid getting hit by his dair.

Overall,you had this xD,but it seems you got c0cky when u were spamming judgements lol.
More bair,less bacon,work on baiting too, that's all really

 

[rPSIvysaur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNe7crGMllg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8iiRYbRAmw

Critque Please. Uploading moar matches right now.

 

[Splice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRNFgGimNIo

Please Critique.

This MK main is different from the others I play.
I get pwn'd.
He knows the GaW MU and most of my tricks...
Please tell me what parts of my gameplay he is abusing
And tell me what parts of his gameplay I can capitalise on.
And that sort of stuff.

Oh and this vid too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qsqzk4pc6A

 

[Toby.]

Hey Splice.

I know I'm not a GaW main but w/e.

You used far too much key at obvious times. Basically if you were in the air you often went for the key, even if it meant attacking his shield head on and giving him a free grab/attack.

Around the 1:05 mark you had used the key 10 times...amounting to roughly 1 key every 6 seconds. All he had to do was wait for the key and punish.

Outside of that you used way too many smashes, often multiple times in a row. You seem to have a habit of charging an up smash after losing a stock rather than trying to take a positional advantage. Those tactics work against players who don't understand GaW, or don't pay attention. You shouldn't make a habit of attempting multiple smashes in a row frequently during the match.

Just some things I noticed.

<3

edit: on your final stock (in order) - charged up smash, fair, nair, grab (with him a long way away in the air), up smash (still way up in the air, impossible to hit) , fsmash, dsmash, dair, dsmash, fsmash, dsmash, parachute, dair, bair, up smash, dsmash, dash attack edge guard, fair, bair, fsmash, upsmash, dair, dair, dsmash, fair, fair, dair, dsmash, dsmash, dair, dtilt, up smash, fsmash, dtilt, dair, fsmash, bair, dsmash, up smash, dsmash, up smash, dsmash, fsmash, dtilt, dair, fair, dsmash, nair, fair, fsmash, bair, dsmash.

 

[Splice]

Hmm wow holy crap I dair'd a lot ey? Hadn't watched it yet.

Thanks Toby!

... That edited bit of your post doesnt really help at all.
Especially because my last stock was the most effective imo.

 

[kewl]

i´ll watch PSI´s and Splice´s vids when i get home and give em a good critique. (:

 

[Splice]

i´ll watch PSI´s and Splice´s vids when i get home and give em a good critique. (:

Wow you haven't been home for quite a while!

 

[kewl]

Wow you haven't been home for quite a while!

actually i got home like at 4 am and went to sleep. LOL.
Anyways.

Splice:

Your dairing was really obvious. it got to the point where I could basically in my mind tell myself when you were gunna dair again. you should try more FF Nairs as, it changes up your predicability, instead of just dairing all the time. You got hella impaitent. you were, what it seemed to me, throwing out mindless smashes everytime you lost a stock and when you just couldn't seem to kill him. At these times when you can't kill an opponent, more so MK, try edgeguarding him with fair or dair, or refresh your dair with uair about 9-10 times and kill him with a fresh dair. That last stock you played really good, if you would of played like that the whole set, I believe the set would of been yours. or atleast closer.

rPSI:

i think you played the wario MU really good. nair+dtilt = **** vs wario xD. somethings: there were times where I saw you could of nair x2, or nair -> fair, but instead you just landed. also do more FF nairs, i don't think I saw any, they're good to get a grab in or dtilt. remember the grab release to fsmash on wario. i saw a couple of times where you could of done it but didn't.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I thought you had to grab him at the edge for that to happen?

 

[kewl]

I thought you had to grab him at the edge for that to happen?

nope.
what i do is grab him and hit him once, he should pop out in an air release.
then do an fsmash and you're good to go.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

>.>

The MU thread says that you can only do it at the ledge. You and UTD need to make sure that's right.

 

[PentaSalia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRNFgGimNIo

Please Critique.

This MK main is different from the others I play.
I get pwn'd.
He knows the GaW MU and most of my tricks...
Please tell me what parts of my gameplay he is abusing
And tell me what parts of his gameplay I can capitalise on.
And that sort of stuff.

Oh and this vid too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qsqzk4pc6A

wow lmao
i wish our top MK's played like this :o
ubber aggro har har.

i'll let u know what i think tomorrow xD
good shet tho

 

[kewl]

>.>

The MU thread says that you can only do it at the ledge. You and UTD need to make sure that's right.

strange, i've done it alot of times to my neighbor (who also mains Wario and is number 1 on the PR here.)

 

[Splice]

lol Penta he only plays THAT aggressive vs. Me.
Because he knows he'll win.

Still aggressive though.
That's where Australia is lacking.

Thanks Kewl. I know I dair'd too much those matches I feel bad now.
I need to find a video where I played well and make myself feel less ****.
I've never thought of FF Nairs from above tbh. Thanks!

Also why ledgecamp them if they have the % lead? They can just stand away from me.
Also why Uair 9-10 times after loss of stock? Doesn't that refresh my moveset?
Just a little fuzzy on those two points ^^;

Thanks kewl!

I'm having trouble with something that makes my entire game go bad: If the opponent is MK, and they have stock or % lead, what are some ways I can be campy but still get some good damage? I know the obvious stuff like retreating bairs and baiting but... are there any other things I should do? That are relatively safe lol. If I keep the % lead for a whole match I actually play decently without spam but If i don't have it, well, watch those videos to see . Anyway this is what is wrong with my game at the moment. More help please ~

 

[UTDZac]

I thought you had to grab him at the edge for that to happen?

nope.
what i do is grab him and hit him once, he should pop out in an air release.
then do an fsmash and you're good to go.

>.>

The MU thread says that you can only do it at the ledge. You and UTD need to make sure that's right.

If G&W grabs Wario, there are two possible scenarios:

1) Wario's feet are NOT touching the ground (they dangle in the air). This situation results in Wario being grab-released, there is nothing he can do. If the other player can pummel fast enough (or right before Wario get's grab released) then Wario will be released on the ground instead... though G&W can't release pummel that fast.

2) Wario's feet are touching the ground (they don't dangle). This is the most common situation. When this happens, Wario is in complete control of where he will get released. He will only air release if, while trying to break out of the grab, he presses a jump button or any other input that counts as a jump. The other player doesn't have any say-so of where Wario goes.

Hope that clears things up. One thing I love doing is listening to my opponent make inputs on his controller. If, when I grab him, I hear him spamming buttons to get free... then I know there's a good chance he hit the jump button and will get air released (as seen here, click).

 

[PentaSalia]

zak,u still going to viridian?:o

inb4uignoremeagain

 

[UTDZac]

Long story short, no I'm not going. Good luck to everyone who is though.

 

[Toby.]

... That edited bit of your post doesnt really help at all.
Especially because my last stock was the most effective imo.

The idea was to point out the insane amount of smash attacks you were doing that weren't really tricking him at all. The best way to illustrate that point was to actually list which moves you used - showing clearly that you almost always followed up a smash attack with at least 1 other. It's usually better for somebody to actually see the data rather than just hearing the same old "don't use so many smash attacks". If that was all it took to make people fix their habits, you would have stopped doing that a long time ago.

The list shows a number of your patterns. Paying attention to them will make you improve. It wasn't nice to look at but I would hardly say that it is useless, unless you don't intend on fixing the habits that the information is representing.

 

[Splice]

The idea was to point out the insane amount of smash attacks you were doing that weren't really tricking him at all. The best way to illustrate that point was to actually list which moves you used - showing clearly that you almost always followed up a smash attack with at least 1 other. It's usually better for somebody to actually see the data rather than just hearing the same old "don't use so many smash attacks". If that was all it took to make people fix their habits, you would have stopped doing that a long time ago.

The list shows a number of your patterns. Paying attention to them will make you improve. It wasn't nice to look at but I would hardly say that it is useless, unless you don't intend on fixing the habits that the information is representing.

K.

But can anyone help me with the other stuff in my last post? That would be nice.

 

[_OraNoS_]

Me vs. Ripple(DK)

[1]
[2]
[3]

Can't seem to win against DK :\ (overall critique would be awesome)

 

[PentaSalia]

i'll get to it later today or tomorrow :o

but from what i saw, you're being too careful and you aren't approaching the right way

i'll explain more tomorrow or so :V

 

[Ripple]

gosh, it should would be swell if someone critiqued oranos since he's a pretty cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Splice]

I'mma try to help Oranos?

Mmmk.

[1]
At the start you used Bacon. DK can Donkey Punch through that, and not get hit, due to invincibility frames or super armour or whatever (i dont really pay much attention to which is whcih lol). Just keep in mind. Also there were a few times you hit the DKs sheild and I think if timed the DK could have grabbed you. Good use of Nair btw. Also I think at one point when you rolled away after getting hit into the ground, can you tech that? It looked like you could, maybe try it? Anyway, after you got out of the grounded UpB you Dair'd right in front of DK, perhaps in too much of a rush to try and get a hit?
And later you Dair right after getting hit too. This doesn't seem to benefit you much lol.

Then you used Fsmash expecting the DK to run into you maybe? No critique there, the DK player just outdid you there i guess. Pity bout the edgehog lol. You could of recovered but you fell too far before trying to get on. If you got right to that height where you only just land on the stage and you fall down as you land, the DK would have still edgehogged, coz it would look like you weren't going to make it. Do you know what i mean?

Anyway I think that this DK was very good, and quite aggressive. If you played a little more safe, it probably would have worked better, because the DK punished your aggression sometimes. You were going too fast and not trying much different, he was powersheilding laggy moves a lot, you needed to slow down and be safer.

Oh also with the down throw tech chase, when you realise he runs the other way, you probably still could have time to jump back and Bair him, maybe, w/e.

Too aggressive sometimes, and could probably have gotten more damage at times with Nair.

[2] I think you need to work on your use of Bair, just get a little better with it in a few aspects. Just pull it out faster and do that reverse thing where you run forward, face the other way quick jump and Bair? I'm sure you already know it but I swear you could have done it sometimes at the start of this match, admittedly I dunno what DK can pull out of his sleeve. Also sometimes when you use it you aren't on a very safe angle. You had much better spacing this match though. So yeah I can't really tell you what else you did wrong really, I like your use of pivot grab and also grabbing that DK punch was sweet as lol! But see because you were running away more in this match you did better and he became an easier target when he was the one coming at you. You probably could have taken a more aggressive approach when he was in the air, because that's where GaW excels: juggling the opponent. You tried to one time but Nair would have been better than Fair. Really need to get better at recovering to the stage though...

[3] You relied on Dtilt as an edgeguard and it didnt quite do the job. Sometimes jumping off and using Fair or even your UpB if your good can do the trick better. Dtilts safe but sometimes risks are worth it. Also you need to get better at sheilding/power sheilding.

I would have lost to that DK too though, He's very good and I don't actually know the MU, so I just said some stuff... and yeah.
Pity the GaW boards are the boards where all the pro players quit the game. Penta will help eventually, I guess?

... GaW boards might as well be a User Group lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

DK isn't hard. N-air OOS all day when he touches your shield. On BF you can D-tilt all day from above platforms (learn to quickly B-air cancel -> platform D-tilt) and especially as he recovers, it's hard for him to get past. Don't get baited by airdodge U-tilt, the <100% getup attack (it crosses you over on shield, so do a turnaround F-smash if you shield it), charged Smashes, and punish his airdodge conservatively with U-tilt/N-air, and his recovery with F-airs/D-airs. Let DK's limitations work for you, and you shouldn't be having trouble in this matchup. The kill will come in this matchup if you wait for it.

Oh yeah and fullhop aerials **** him.

I've played some really good DK players and the matchup in general is really only hard when you don't know what to look for. If you're new to the matchup, I don't care who you use (except maybe DDD). You WILL get *****. Once you learn to observe his gimmicks, you shouldn't be having much trouble.

His Giant Punch and Headbutt can be powershielded on reaction too.

 

[Splice]

Listen to what A2ZOMG said rather than what I said. I don't understand DK at all.
Dunno if more charge smashes would have helped though, only thing that seems strange to me.

I wish my region had more players of more characters so I could understand more of these MUs.

They either use an S tier, or they aren't very good :s
With few exceptions.

 

[Never Emperor]

DK, easy. Bair to the top of his head, do Nair after that, then land and do bug spray spam or grab. Or Bair to the top of his head, U air then Utilt to Nair Up B. Charge a smash attack for when he lands.

 

[Ripple]

are you guys even watching the videos?

you can't beat DK simply by full hop bair then nair

 

[A2ZOMG]

After watching the first stock of the first match, I really didn't feel like directly critiquing him since the entire match was him basically just not playing to observe specific things and getting ***** for not really doing basic things.

Until he starts doing basic things like not getting baited into U-tilt/<100% getup attack/Smashes, does a better job of edgeguarding (it's very easy to react to DK's ledge getup imo), juggling, and doing BASIC spacing tricks that work on DK, I really don't feel like there is much to really critique besides just saying he's not approaching the matchup correctly at all.

DK is a pretty simple matchup once you realize that you can limit his game entirely to spaced F-tilts and B-airs with random D-smash and Up-B punishes. The key thing is it requires a little bit of thinking to observe his other gimmicks and stop him from using them.

 

[Splice]

are you guys even watching the videos?

you can't beat DK simply by full hop bair then nair

I watched 1 and 2, cant you tell? lol.

But Oranos was pretty terrible Match 1.

A2ZOMG, if you didnt, watch Match 2, it was better.

Anyway, at least Oranos has some critique now.
You should be thankful that you got that at least... lol

 

[Ripple]

I watched 1 and 2, cant you tell? lol.

But Oranos was pretty terrible Match 1.

A2ZOMG, if you didnt, watch Match 2, it was better.

Anyway, at least Oranos has some critique now.
You should be thankful that you got that at least... lol

sorry, I was talking to A2Z and never emperor.

I appreciate your help splice

 

[A2ZOMG]

The 2nd match was also pretty bad. You BOTH screwed up a lot and really just both failed to execute optimal options in most situations.

And in Match 3, it looked a lot like the first one to me anyhow, but I was most appalled by the lack of application of edgetrapping against Donkey Kong, which is fundamentally EXTREMELY good.

 

[Never Emperor]

If G&W grabs Wario, there are two possible scenarios:

1) Wario's feet are NOT touching the ground (they dangle in the air). This situation results in Wario being grab-released, there is nothing he can do. If the other player can pummel fast enough (or right before Wario get's grab released) then Wario will be released on the ground instead... though G&W can't release pummel that fast.

2) Wario's feet are touching the ground (they don't dangle). This is the most common situation. When this happens, Wario is in complete control of where he will get released. He will only air release if, while trying to break out of the grab, he presses a jump button or any other input that counts as a jump. The other player doesn't have any say-so of where Wario goes.

Hope that clears things up. One thing I love doing is listening to my opponent make inputs on his controller. If, when I grab him, I hear him spamming buttons to get free... then I know there's a good chance he hit the jump button and will get air released (as seen here, click).

The hearing opponent mashing buttons thing works with Dthrow also. If someone if mashing buttons when you initiate the Dthrow, they cannot tech out of the Dsmash. Its a NOJ trick.

 

[_OraNoS_]

^ definitely didn't know that

Thanks everyone for helping, when I check this later I'll probably re-watch the games and check the comments both during & after to see the exact situation you guys are talking about