Evaluation/Help your G&W,Video Critique Thread,Updated (11-01-09))

[UTDZac]

It's kinda hard to get punished when you nine them

and about the genesis videos, I wasn't able to get any of my singles recorded, sorry. The whole venue setup was somewhat messy.

 

[cutter]

How did you manage to plank DSF though Zac?

The funniest part is that you planked DSF to win, and Dojo aircamps DEHF to time out for a win. You get away with planking completely, yet when Dojo did "Air Planking", he risked getting DQed simply because he was MK :/

 

[Grey Belnades]

You're kidding me right?

I must be doing it wrong then ><

Only Zac can use Judgement, for he is the best when it comes to 9's.

 

[PentaSalia]

hi everybody
i am a brazilian smasher that mains ROB and last week i decided to train G&W

i need some hints of u guys ^^

My Videos:

Mike(G&W) vs Hikki(Kirby) 1
Mike(G&W) vs Hikki(Kirby) 2
Mike(G&W) vs Hikki(Kirby) 3
Mike(G&W) vs Hikki(Kirby) 4
Mike(G&W) vs Hikki(Kirby) 5

yeah, i know that killing kirby at that % in Corneria was horrible =0

only saw the first vid

well you need to work on your nairs and bairs but mostly nairs . Although it is good for this match up, you overuse it and it didn't connect most of the times. You go for too many FF nairs as well. It works best as a mix and it really doesn't work against kirby IMO. i also noticed that even if you did get your opponent with nair,you didn't chain it with any more aerials=/. SH nair into another nair is a common combo. FFnair can go into aerials or smashes/tilts,depending on how close/far they are from you when nair hits.

Overall just simply work on your spacing and approaches with bair/nair.

oh and more Uair

 

[A2ZOMG]

Blargh, HORRIBLE first match.

Your spacing needs a lot of work, you do a lot of unsafe things like ffn-air.

Your edgeguarding is WAAAAAAAY too conservative. You don't need to hold back against Kirby when edgeguarding. He is completely vulnerable to you when offstage. If he comes from below, DO NOT HESITATE TO D-AIR HIM! IT'S A FREE BIG HIT. Keep in mind initiating a normal fastfall while D-airing causes you to fall SLOWER making it even better for edgeguarding. Be as aggressive as possible when edgeguarding him. He is horrible at recovering against G&W.

In general you don't pose enough of a threat with your Smashes. Learn to spam/space them more appropriately. Up-smash is super good especially from a charge release since it can't be punished.

fullhop F-airs are your friend. Always.

 

[PentaSalia]

Updated
------------------------------------------August 9----------------------------------------

 

[PK-ow!]

Why did this thread die?

Oh right. People stopped caring about G&W or something. D:


Well, I have two vids (finally!), and they're against a Kirby SO PRO, she beat me without any aggression at all. Wifi (I live in Nowhereton, Nowhereland).

I need direkshunz. I felt like Kirby answered everything GaW did, the spacing was so good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5cidwnD-CE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSgSd5HMJNE

Many mistakes are a result of my inconsistent Tapping. I have trouble falling through platforms (especially on respawn) and, though most of the ftilts are my choice, the last one in vid 1 was supposed to be an Fsmash. Dx


In addition to a request for general help, I direct you to the fact that at 3:43 of vid 1, I experience the Buffered Chef glitch, but I don't see why. Why did it happen?

Your help, please.

 

[PentaSalia]

dammit i had a whole thing typed out but my comp froze lmao ;/
i'll type it out real quick lol

saw the first vid

basically,you were all over the place in your first battle
it's like you didn't know what to do
although you did get him sometimes....ftilt and utilt aren't really the best moves to use
they're easily punishable.

you need to work on getting back on stage safely,kirby had you cornered on the edge too many times.
his bair spam near the edge was predictable...and again,it seemed like you didn't know what to do.
but it's best to try and get back to the middle of the stage asap,since kirbys fsmash can kill you at early percentages. up and B from the edge if you feel stuck but you could have gotten him with bair, IMO ;/
because again,his bair spam was easy to read.

lastly..you need to work on your aerial approaches
most of your approaches were on the ground=/,i hardly saw any use of bair or nair especially, which is great in this match up
but if you are going to try and approach,try dtilt,not ftilt.

overall just work on your aerials and your approaches
and avoid using ftilt so much

and im not really sure about the bacon lock here
maybe someone else here can help =/

 

[PK-ow!]

dammit i had a whole thing typed out but my comp froze lmao ;/
i'll type it out real quick lol

saw the first vid

basically,you were all over the place in your first battle
it's like you didn't know what to do

... yes. I didn't know what to do. That's why I'm asking.

What was I supposed to do? o_0

Like, do you have any tips of the form, 'given what SNO in fact did, what's the best thing I should have done,' in some situation or other?

you need to work on getting back on stage safely,kirby had you cornered on the edge too many times.
his bair spam near the edge was predictable...and again,it seemed like you didn't know what to do.

lastly..you need to work on your aerial approaches

So yeah, my big question is, "How?"


Observing the vid, my aerial approaches seemed thwarted by the YI platform, which rendered a double jump useless. I'm used to abusing YI's properties with Ganon. Every time I came at her with a jump, she got a perfect bair that outreached mine.

... also there was no timer... and early on I had a damage lead so I shouldn't have had to approach at all. I was completely stumped by her total nonaggression. Is there any sort of trap that GaW can set on a player that doesn't do anything?


I tried baiting her reaction in the middle, which became a Greenhouse when I fumbled the controls. I don't even know what I was trying to do.


I'll just edit this post with responses to other critiques unless we go past a page.

EDIT: I think you guys missed that this was Wifi. Falling for random hammers would happen more.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The first minute of the first battle was good. Your spacing was best there. And then everything else was bad.

In general though I just was not impressed by your spacing...too many unsafe uses of tilts and smashes. Not enough use of B-air and D-tilt. You're not moving fast enough and not putting enough pressure on SNO. In general you chose pretty bad options for mixups that don't really control space where Kirby is able to approach from (actually seriously, Kirby can't approach G&W at all normally) Seriously, this matchup is VERY easy once you get into the flow of it. This is one matchup where G&W can REALLY follow up and be aggressive as soon as you get control.

You didn't edgeguard her brutally enough. When edgeguarding Kirby, GO F***ING ALL OUT. Be as aggressive as possible. Kirby doesn't have the tools to deal with anything G&W throws at him offstage. If he recovers low, D-air him in the head. Seriously though, just go crazy when Kirby is offstage. You won't get punished for it 99% of the time.

And don't fall for random hammers/stones. They're very easy to avoid and punish.

The 2nd match...you're having the same problems in general just having plain poor mixups and stage control. In that match, most of your kills were just luck. Again, I cannot stress this further, go into BEAST MODE when edgeguarding Kirby.

 

[PentaSalia]

does anyone have any current videos of G&W vs IC's=/?
this match up is kinda on and off for me lol
sometimes i do really well and but sometimes i'm just a mess;/

if there aren't any,i might just record the next match i have with IC's and have it critiqued;/

 

[Splice]

I've been waiting for some matches from a recent tourney to be uploaded, but, whilst i wait i figured I might as well get some advice for this old match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dESYNRoQ_Q&feature=channel Vs. Pony, a Pit player.
There are 2 matches in one so it's kinda long.

Thankyou.

 

[PentaSalia]

saw the vid,check back at this post later for my comments

but for now all i can say is that i did not see one nair in this entire set o_o

edit:
Nairs/Uair are great in this match up
use it more lol
it's great for pressuring your opponent in the air and overall can combo into other attacks
i'm sure you know that

overall you seemed to know what you were doing but you do have a few bad habits

You became predictable both matches with your SH fair approaches and as you can see,if you miss, it leaves you pretty vulnerable.
Same with your dairs, you could have mixed it up a little
miss your dair on purpose so you can dtilt right away. stuff like that.

That's all i can say really. You played well
though this match probably would have been much easier if you used more nairs.
careful for the fake out fair into bair in this match up,it's pretty common for pit players to do that

Also you tend to get more aggressive when you're losing, which is how he caught up on brinstar
Same with me;/

 

[Splice]

Thanks for the advice! I have started to use all the airials now, Nair is legendary i have learnt.
Fair into Bair, Dair into Dtilt and not being aggresive are helpful though thanks very much!

Looks like my recent vids aren't going to be uploaded until the end-of-year tourney is over oh dear

 

[PentaSalia]

fair..into bair..o.O?
never heard of that lol

maybe u meant nair :o


anyway,
i'll updates later

 

[Splice]

careful for the fake out fair into bair in this match up,it's pretty common for pit players to do that

Thanks for telling me to watch out for that lol.
Pretty sure GaW could do this too if the opponent rolled behind you to avoid the Fair, though.

 

[NatP]

Ok here are some team matches from my tourney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm_NBPhv09M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-yfTxTGYFQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxX9H3JRQ7U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF1A0cZdYRc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npVdNfzvxX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM5RZAiua74
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDRVVoEBb08

Please tell me what I can do to improve. :D

 

[PentaSalia]

i have very little team experience;/
hopefully someone else will get to it

*looks at a2zomgzers*

 

[Anauel]

Ok here are some team matches from my tourney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm_NBPhv09M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-yfTxTGYFQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxX9H3JRQ7U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF1A0cZdYRc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npVdNfzvxX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM5RZAiua74
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDRVVoEBb08

Please tell me what I can do to improve. :D

I looooooove 2v2 so I'll give you some pointers.

- Use Uair defensively too. I saw some of your matches and you had some great uses of Uair but there were times where I was hoping you'd save your partner and you didn't.

- If Marth's spamming fairs just DI up and away or UpB. If you're on the ground, dtilt.

- Whenever someone is falling, charge an USmash. If you think you can hit with it, charge an Usmash. Hell, if you see someone coming, charge an Usmash.

- UpB when snake dThrows you.

- AMG PLEASE BUCKET THAT WADDLEDOO!

- If an MK uses upB and it doesn't hit you, you should instinctively use uAir. Maybe it doesn't lead to anything, but it gives you control and refreshes moves.

- If someone is spamming a kill move and you're at 100%+, get the hell away from them. I saw a couple of times when that snake spammed uTilt and you kept going at him until he killed you.

- The most important tip I can give you is: this isn't 2 1v1s going on. You're a team. Act like one. Be aware of where your teammate is at all times. Playing GW in 2v2 is a blast because you have to be aware of everyone (which isn't so for some characters). Just keep practicing with your teammate and talk things through. What to do when you're 2v1 vs some chars and so on. Communication is key.

-- The Matches --

The first match went mostly ok, until you two had that Marth alone. Then you went all reckless and could've easily lost. He took 3 stocks from your team and had you at 100% damage, which would've been enough for you to die from an upB. Try to get some more practice with your teammate. Learn to adapt to his/her style and choose someone to go first. The other one just stands in the back waiting for a grab.

I think you got lucky at the ending of the second match. Same thing happened when you were 2v1.

Third match was pretty bad. You got outsmarted, outdamaged and outstocked (obviously).

Fourth match was good, but same thing. Communication.

Fifth match, excellent use of uair!

Sixth match, holy crap, I thought you had a full bucket.

7th match was beaaautiful. Great example of Uair usage.

Anyway, your GW is pretty good. You have good control of him and you anticipate your foes. I was entertained by the videos. Sorry I went a bit dry on the matches, I'm a bit tired. Good luck and keep training!

 

[PentaSalia]

going to update the video list tomorrow D:

but for now...

 

[A2ZOMG]

i have very little team experience;/
hopefully someone else will get to it

*looks at a2zomgzers*

Now that you mentioned it, I discovered that DSF and I **** in teams. Well, it was just friendlies, but seriously, I was destroying in teams recently lol.

He was screwing around with Diddy Kong, and I went G&W. This team combination has a LOT of synergy. G&W can make REALLY good use of Bananas with his teammate. With Diddy Kong generally controlling the stage, and G&W ****** people with D-throw and glidetossed Smashes, this team owns. Just don't die, because you're going to be required for scoring most of the KOs.

I don't think I have enough experience though to be able to seriously critique any team battles though. All my practical experience is about 1v1 play, so aside from being able to tell you "abuse x gimmick", I don't think I can tell you much more than that.

 

[PentaSalia]

Now that you mentioned it, I discovered that DSF and I **** in teams. Well, it was just friendlies, but seriously, I was destroying in teams recently lol.

He was screwing around with Diddy Kong, and I went G&W. This team combination has a LOT of synergy. G&W can make REALLY good use of Bananas with his teammate. With Diddy Kong generally controlling the stage, and G&W ****** people with D-throw and glidetossed Smashes, this team owns. Just don't die, because you're going to be required for scoring most of the KOs.

I don't think I have enough experience though to be able to seriously critique any team battles though. All my practical experience is about 1v1 play, so aside from being able to tell you "abuse x gimmick", I don't think I can tell you much more than that.

late response but thanks anyway xD

i can see that combination working well but you'll have to know your partner well for it to sync in.
Isn't something you can just put together and figure out on the way xD
like G&W and MK lol

i'd say G&W and ZSS too but not really, i think


and updated :D

 

[PentaSalia]

haven't really recorded myself in a while lol

here's a recent vid of mine if anyone would like to critique :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL-rwsEmwFQ

tis wifi btw lol
was a bit laggy

that's why my nairs were off at times

 

[cemo]

Hahaha, aw man, I was hoping you'd judgement marth on some of those whiffed up-bs.

 

[PentaSalia]

ugh;_;

i didn't know whether he'd land on the plats or the ground but i screwed it up anyway lol x_x

didn't react fast enough

 

[cemo]

Did a good job, though. I like it when I see people caught off guard by the up smash iasa frames.
The actual matchup I can't really comment on, though, there aren't really any marth players here. ):

 

[PentaSalia]

haha thanks

tho i think i could have done a better job air juggling marth ;/
especially on lylat
<3lylat

 

[Kurizu208]

Hey does Game & Watch have a good counter for Kirby's Cutter? I seem to get punished by that move a lot.

 

[Lightning Tiger]

bucket it.

 

[PentaSalia]

wrong thread lol

and yea,either bucket it ot simply dodge it x_x

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hey does Game & Watch have a good counter for Kirby's Cutter? I seem to get punished by that move a lot.

Wait it out and punish it? Kirby should never be spamming Final Cutter against anyone good.

You can Bucket it, powershield it, outspace it, and if he dares to recover with it, you can do all sorts of dumb stuff to **** it including D-airing it.

G&W ***** the **** out of Kirby anyway. You just run him over offensively. He can't challenge your poke options, and he doesn't have any reliable way to land a kill, while you COMPLETELY VIOLATE HIM offstage. He can do ZERO THINGS to defend himself from G&W's edgeguarding, so just follow him offstage, and attack.

 

[Neb]

Just two fairly recent videos of mine. Please, do your worst :x

vs Kirby - 1 2​

 

[derkapalooza]

critique please

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-56S5Jq5HGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys4IjbhuIII

if the results of those two vids are way too extreme, here is one where we dont **** each other lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3WRkWJtx8

 

[PentaSalia]

general advice

Just two fairly recent videos of mine. Please, do your worst :x

vs Kirby - 1 2​

you did well overall but your approaches lack
this kirby was aggressive so you didn't really need to lol
but SH/ nairs are your friends in this match up
not so much SH bairs, but bair is still useful as always

use it to approach and punish kirby at all times

idk this MU that well so that's all i can say

critique please

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-56S5Jq5HGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys4IjbhuIII

if the results of those two vids are way too extreme, here is one where we dont **** each other lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3WRkWJtx8

that marth..was..not so great
when you're right next to marth onstage,don't go for smashes
they will always either use side B or up and B if close enough,they both come out fast enough
dtilt(sometimes) or SH nair is more reliable
bair/fair too but becareful with it,they can up and B/fair if you do it wrong

also learn other ways to approach marth
spamming bairs won't get u very far against good marths
and always wait for them to attack first,then punish, never go after them randomly.

also work on punishing people in the air=/
learn to read their dodges

overall,just be more patient when playing

 

[mobilisq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8TRBKzHXY

am i any good with this character at all

 

[Noraa]

I need feedback, if it was a serious match i wouldnt have aproached with a stock lead but it was a friendly.
Any advice would be helpfull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQcWyV9albU

 

[UTDZac]

I need feedback, if it was a serious match i wouldnt have aproached with a stock lead but it was a friendly.
Any advice would be helpfull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQcWyV9albU

As much as it hurts me to say this, the kill at 0:52 should have been with an fsmash. I prefer to walk-away -> fsmash. It's very effective against snake when he's coming back to the stage from the angle.

You really should play more camping after getting such a lead.

@ 2:32 the ONLY way he was going to survive blowing himself up was to bounce off the side of the stage or tech it. (I would know... Duelist!) You should have been ready by charging an fsmash so it reaches off the stage.

Again, nice lead, camp that platform!

At low percents, don't use dthrow. Throw him left or right and combo with nair, or just jump out there with him and wait for him to do something. Be careful of nair! At high percents you can use dthrow when you've pressured him enough. You want him to do getup attack or roll away from you and punish either option with fair. This should kill him.

Look at that, all that approaching got you exploded then killed for no reason.

I just noticed, you don't use uair much at all. Uair is simply amazing against snake. It messes up their spacing as they fall back to the ground, making them more cautious about throwing out fast, but laggy aerials. If you learn the timing and height for uair, it will be a godsend in this matchup.

Not sure how you lost this one... you had the lead the whole time... oh well that happens against snake. Camp harder!

Hope that helps =)

Spoiler

The snake really wasn't that good of a snake player. He didn't ftilt enough. He didn't grenade at the right times. Not enough C4 mindgames. Not a single wavebounced grenade while returning to the stage.

 

[Noraa]

Yeah, if it was a serious set i would have camped after i got that big lead. Like i said it was a friendly so, i didnt want to make it to gay.

But i will mosdef fthrow/bthrow more and try to follow up, as for nair im always scared to do that because all they need to do is pull a nade and....boom lol. but il try to do that more.

 

[PentaSalia]

UTDzacky loves the snake MU more than eating waffles lol


alot of G&W's players start to get nervous when snake is at high kill % and he's slowly catching up on you xD
in result,they got more smash happy and predictable lol

that's why snake can sometimes pull off gay wins on people ;/

not saying this about u xD,but in general

also when snake is on the edge, sometimes they try to get back on stage with a nair or edgehop(idk what its called lol) with a grenade

if you up and B them correctly, you can send them back offstage at an angle where they're forced to use their recovery and you can pressure them easily lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

Just two fairly recent videos of mine. Please, do your worst :x

vs Kirby - 1 2​

Honestly...I don't have many complaints about you. I'm thinking I should probably try to review the Kirby player perhaps, but all in all I felt you did pretty well.

You use F-smash more than I'd like...it's punishable by Kirby's huge feet since G&W leans forward a lot on it.

Your approaches generally seemed really jittery and nervous, particularly in the first match where you played too defensively and were letting yourself get cornered.

There's a number of situations where I would ledgedrop slowfall D-air or ledgedrop B-air/Judgement to punish Kirby's recovery that you didn't take advantage of, but it's cool overall.

All in all good ****. I'm feeling a little sad myself, because you guys are just getting better and better with the character as far as I can tell...I feel my G&W has much to be desired.

Beside that, I really really need to get recorded footage of myself...especially with me actually going to tournaments and stuff. I officially main Mario/Luigi/G&W for tournament. I can't stick to one character, I discovered I have to switch it up to keep my mindgames fresh.