EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[bubbaking]

I dunno what the big deal is.

I've played really good Peaches, DoH, MacD, Bladewise, mostly Bladewise.

They beat me because they're better than I am, but the matchup doesn't seem bad at all.

You just have to not challenge their safe ****. They come down with an fc fair? Don't challenge it. They dash attack? Don't challenge it.

Utilt is good at certain spacings. Jumping up and aerialing them is good at certain spacings. You can move on the ground faster than they can move in the air. You can react to almost everything they do. They throw a turnip? Shield it->wd back, or avoid it. If you wanna be tricky at low percents, you can shield it, up B into it, then come down with a dair instantly.

The matchup is all about using your shield effectively, and not challenging their good moves. Instead rely on the ability to outspace them with longer range attacks, zone them with missiles, and make them come to you unsafely. It really doesn't feel that bad.

I watched Hugo vs Armada at Apex 2012. Went to game 3, last stock. Why do you guys think it's so good? Stop running into her moves. DI away. Stay back and wait for your moment, she's a slow character.

I've also played against a bunch of Peaches too. A lot of Ben Grimm over on LI, a little DoH recently, and quite a bit of Epsilon lately, since I seem to keep running into him in bracket. I also played Vanz a little and Shounenkel a lot when I met them at Apex 2012.

The very fact that you aren't allowed to challenge so much of Peach's crap means she's at an advantage at neutral because she's allowed to 'push Samus around', so to speak. I wouldn't dare say that this is one of Samus' hardest MUs. That kind of label is reserved for Falcon and Sheik (I'm not so sure about Jiggs and Marth being that difficult anymore).

We also end up getting out-lived a lot of the time 'cause she hits harder and lives just as long as (or longer than) us, and the fact that her grab kills us is terrible because of her crazy shield pressure and jab mix-ups. That's why I often opt to just circumvent the shield pressure altogether with upB.

They almost match our zoning and camping ability too. Their turnips will randomly beat out our missiles.

Edit: Idk, personally, I just find the Peach MU to be really aggravating. Perhaps you've found ways to deal with it that the rest of us haven't...

 

[Armada]

I watched Hugo vs Armada at Apex 2012. Went to game 3, last stock. Why do you guys think it's so good? Stop running into her moves. DI away. Stay back and wait for your moment, she's a slow character.

I don't know what set you were looking at. I beat him 2-0 pretty eaisly. Hugo was clearly not in shape so I don't blaim him. Back at Pound 4 we had some super close friendlis though.

 

[bubbaking]

Comin' in here and blowin' up our hero... Who do you think you are?








Lolz, jk.

 

[Geist]

peach isn't a 'bad' matchup by any stretch, it's just one you have to force yourself to play reeeally gay at, and that's usually the hard part for people.
Peach v samus is definitely one of those things that looks way worse on paper.

 

[Violence]

Must've been a different Peach. Apologies, I did remember wrong.

I just thought I saw close games between you two at one point or another.

I still don't think the matchup is that bad.

 

[abcool]

I think Peach/Samus is a matchup where if you have ideas on how to damage an get in on her you win. If you have no clue of peaches options on you then you lose. The thing about that fight is both characters can do creative mixups to eachother. When i fight peach i CC. I know a lot of people would be like "OHH NO CCING A PEACH NOOO!!!" CC works vs bairs/FC Fairs at low percents because she can't commit to dsmash before you hit her on reaction. As your percents climb an you aren't put into tumble CC to grab may work. I haven't tested, but it look like it should for when she pushes you further back. She also has to think before she runs into you. As your percents get higher to where you tumble from strong aerials you can Up-B oos.

A smart peach will just aerial through some of your missiles, so i use missiles to force a low approach an space utilt. If a peach is shielding your missiles, then missiles to grab is a really good approach option. When she is on on platform don't use uair, because they usually throw out a dsmash on reaction up there, wait it out an then jump to first bomb, second bombwaveland(If you wanna be fancy). When comboing a peach at low percents, they tend to shield the min they hit the ground, at this point don't forget to grab. Most peaches and characters in general just shield Samus players an OOS damage her so mix it up. I will try incoporating extender in my matches for spotdodge happy players seeing that it beats that option. An also, when you grab a peach an dthrow at low percents don't go using nair stupidly seeing as she can just hit you RIGHT after you nair her, so space that nair properly can you can take a hard counter nair off of that.

 

[bubbaking]

This isn't bad advice, but there are a couple things I disagree with:

Peach's fair is around +4 on block. I may be missing something, but I highly doubt that Samus should be able to CCC Peach before she gets you first with jab > grab or dsmash or something.

I also like to missile > grab a lot on shielding Peaches, but when they can PS consistently (DoH was doing it to me more than half the time), this and a lot of strategies become really difficult to pull off.

This is just personal preference, but because of Peach's dsmash on plats, I prefer to just poke at her with utilt unless we're on DL64. If I bomb WL, I usually only use one bomb.

 

[abcool]

This isn't bad advice, but there are a couple things I disagree with:

Peach's fair is around +4 on block. I may be missing something, but I highly doubt that Samus should be able to CCC Peach before she gets you first with jab > grab or dsmash or something.

Well either ShounenKel is ****** or it was my imagination when i was beating him with it an he was frustrated. If your percent is 0 as Samus and peach FC fairs you an tries to jab you can dsmash her, and your dmash will come out before hers. Now if you mean the Up-B oos, then i think she landed a jab on me once or twice out of it, but the CC stuff works. I never played a PS pro peach before, but not all peaches become this god at PSing, so that isn't my concern. The thing is though if i do end up meeting on like that then, i'll probably lose an adjust, but trying to PS moves is taking a risk on the peach part so homing missile/Power missile mixups may throw them off.

 

[Violence]

If you shield her Fair, just SSDI away, then wavedash back. If she dash attacks, you can just cc dsmash.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'm getting better at the ditto matchup. I played a Samus today who showed me two things I don't use enough of or at all in some cases. The spotdodge and bombs. He got away with a lot of spotdodge dsmash on me. The matches were recorded so I'll probably post them later. He also used bombs to give him some breathing room to regain himself in certain situations which I really liked. He would place the bomb so that it would remove any approach from a ground level(I've become a very ground based Samus, which I think is really good considering I used to approach with full hop nair -__-).

I don't play Samus' often so his missile game gave me some trouble even though it wasn't top notch. I still found it quite an obstacle and now feel the pain of my regular opponents lol.

 

[Knut]

lol. i just read this now. yea, he spot dodges a lot. too much. and very predictably.
i did really like his use and spacing of bombs though. definitely good stuff.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Hey Knut thanks for the critique! And I felt I wasn't at my 90% that night. I like to use my term 90% because usually that's when I play best. 100% is reserved for when I've narrowed down all the little technical issues I have still with Samus lol.

Even though I remained on the ground way more often than I used to as Samus, looking back at the VOD from last night I still feel I go in the air a little too much. I also seemed to get lazy/frustrated at times because I started just running at him in the air and getting stuffed. He was working me pretty well with those missiles I will say. He would remove my ground approaches with standing missiles and the moment he would see me approach from the air he would stuff me with a nair before I could get anything out.

I have some questions though that I think could have helped me somewhat last night. Does Samus have an advantage if she gets dash attacked on shield? Is her dash attack shield grab-able? At times I was unsure so I just when with upB Oos. I should have done that more often too because I wasn't on my game and my WD oos reactions were a bit slow, causing me to whiff when he spotdodged after dash attack on my shield a few times.

I will win next time. Maybe tonight if he goes to our smashfest. Knut what are your housing plans for Apex?

 

[bubbaking]

POST YOUR POOLS!!!

I have some questions though that I think could have helped me somewhat last night. Does Samus have an advantage if she gets dash attacked on shield? Is her dash attack shield grab-able? At times I was unsure so I just when with upB Oos. I should have done that more often too because I wasn't on my game and my WD oos reactions were a bit slow, causing me to whiff when he spotdodged after dash attack on my shield a few times.

I feel like you can shieldgrab it, but only if it's poorly spaced. Samus can space her DA so that she hits with the back of the attack. That's how I do it when I'm afraid a shield is going to pop up out of nowhere because it crosses up shields, spacee-style, and lets Samus dart a good distance away. If you're not sure of shieldgrab timings (I know I am not), you can definitely just nair it OoS. UpB works but it's sub-optimal in this situation, especially since it has no follow-ups on floaties.

 

[iRobinhoood]

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

Hey Bubbaking if your on and see this, someone is playing your character in another game.

 

[bubbaking]

My character as in my tag?

Edit: Upon checking the member list, there are at least 6 people with "bubba" in their tags.

 

[iRobinhoood]

It was the character in your avatar lol.

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, well that's because Dictator Bison is the good stuff!

Edit: So I decided that now would be a good time to go and search for videos from those two tourneys I went to down here in VA (one of them being a regional) so I could get more critique on my matches. Well, lo and behold, THEY WERE DELETED! Why am I cursed to never have videos online of myself?

 

[Violence]

Dictator Vega^

*grew up with a Super Famicom and a Japanese version of 2 turbo*

Bison=Boxer
Vega=Dictator
Balrog=Claw

 

[zDuck]

If you shield her Fair, just SSDI away, then wavedash back. If she dash attacks, you can just cc dsmash.

i'm stealing this

 

[iRobinhoood]

What does SSDI stand for?

 

[Violence]

Shield Smash DI.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Direction of the control stick during shield stun?

 

[abcool]

Direction of the control stick during shield stun?

Press back like you would do a roll, but only during shieldstun.

 

[GunPunch]

Good luck at Apex! Make it on stream, i'll be watching.

Oh, and someone beat that peach main

 

[Violence]

Direction of the control stick during shield stun?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53t9fDzdCyw

This is like the fourth time I've posted this link in this thread. PAY ATTENTION

 

[GunPunch]

fourth time is the charm
change up the delivery
maybe try haiku

 

[Violence]

Plup has some new technology

I really like those bairs to cover the high forward b, good reads.

 

[ycz12]

Humongous props to ESAM for beating Javi in pools.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Apex 2013 was amazing. I have so much to post about which I'll probably do in the coming days. I played Plup and watched A LOT of sets of his.

Dat Samus, speechless.

 

[Renth]

Apex 2013 was amazing. I have so much to post about which I'll probably do in the coming days. I played Plup and watched A LOT of sets of his.

Dat Samus, speechless.

I'm glad you sat with Plup and I for a little while. Hopefully, we showed you what I tried to express on the forums about the ganon vs. samus match up.

Should have found me and played me more, you were learning quickly.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'm glad you sat with Plup and I for a little while. Hopefully, we showed you what I tried to express on the forums about the ganon vs. samus match up.

Should have found me and played me more, you were learning quickly.

Yo Renth, was just about to visit the Ganon boards. MAD HELPFUL PLAYER. Thanks for your help bro. Super motivated after Apex 2013.

 

[Renth]

Yo Renth, was just about to visit the Ganon boards. MAD HELPFUL PLAYER. Thanks for your help bro. Super motivated after Apex 2013.

By all means still do, I enjoy the attention.

I'm pretty good about helping people and you were a nice guy.


edit: I think you just happened to come across plup and i at the right moment. I also, wanted to try to show you what I meant when you asked before about the match up

 

[Knut]

yo seriously, ganon v samus is the whackest matchup.

 

[DarrellD]

yo seriously, ganon v samus is the whackest matchup.

I passionately despise that match up to. Its not something you practice regularly and any ganon you play is pretty good at the game themselves.

Do you guys think ganon is worse than sheik, given the idea that a grab follows up to more damage and his spacing tools arent bad against samus?

 

[Geist]

^ i dunno man, sometimes sheik feels like the predator

 

[bubbaking]

On the Ganon boards, a lot of the Ganons (including Renth) feel the MU might be in Samus' favor. I personally think it's around even, but it's really funny how the opinions expressed change when one switches from one char's boards to the other's.

Do you guys think ganon is worse than sheik, given the idea that a grab follows up to more damage and his spacing tools arent bad against samus?

I really don't think this MU is THAT bad. At least we can make it extremely hard for Ganon to get in if we get some distance and Ganon can't gimp us as well as Sheik can. Sheik pops all our missiles and charge shots with single needles, and she can dash/DA under missiles that are slightly too high. She can also bair and needle us out of our bomb jumps, and while it may be hard to get down from the air around Ganon, Sheik's uair can kill us for being up there at all. I personally think Sheik might just be our absolute hardest MU, harder than Falcon and definitely harder than Marth or Jiggs.

Another thing I find really different about these chars is how we can pressure them in CQC. Ganon's OoS game isn't that good so we can kinda pressure his shield if we have to. His WD OoS kinda sucks, his grab range sucks, and his aerials don't have the best startup (unless we're behind him). Sheik, on the other hand, has a really good WD OoS grab, a pretty good roll, and extremely fast aerials to boot.

 

[bubbaking]

Sorry, double post...

 

[iRobinhoood]

yo seriously, ganon v samus is the whackest matchup.

This.

And I will forever associate this MU with playing Renth while Plup watching behind me. #Apex2013

Missile, missile, missile, don't move, missile, missile, missile, think about moving, don't actually move, missile, missile, missile, ganon approaches, stuff him out. Repeat til slightly browned but still red in the middle.

Approaching Ganon or trying to outplay the character just forces us to play at a much more superior level when we don't have to. And this "don't have to" part is the one I'm currently working on. Having the patience to do so and showing my opponent no remorse. This is what I have to do to win, which means it is what I want to do to win.

As I tell Knut, if my opponent turns off the TV from my style of play, hey, hate the character, not the player ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Btw Knut showed no mercy against a Shiek for a spot as the 4th seed and making bracket. Enjoyed every minute of watching our worst MU get knocked out.

 

[Knut]

how i feel about it right now, i definitely prefer to face a shiek over ganon.

ganon plays too rough. u_u

and i really wish that set vs copycat was recorded.

 

[Pluplue]

samus vs ganon is definitely in samus' favor. no doubt whatsoever. Ganon has no way to approach you and get's combo'd/edge-guarded way too easily.