Lloyd Ikari
7:42 PM
Hey Zhu
7:42 PM
It's 0Room
7:42 PM
If you had some time
pigm00ner
7:43 PM
ooo hey
Lloyd Ikari
7:43 PM
I'd liek to talk to you about Falco/Falcon
pigm00ner
7:43 PM
ahhh yeah
7:43 PM
anything in particular?
Lloyd Ikari
7:43 PM
Just looking for mindset
pigm00ner
7:43 PM
mmm
Lloyd Ikari
7:43 PM
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=309062
pigm00ner
7:43 PM
falcos side or falcons?
Lloyd Ikari
7:43 PM
Hax made a thread btw
7:43 PM
/relevance
7:43 PM
It was totally unrelated to this though
7:43 PM
Ummm
7:44 PM
I'd say Falco's for now
7:44 PM
Like
7:44 PM
What are Falco's main goals
7:44 PM
And what does he do to accomplish them,
pigm00ner
7:44 PM
hmm
7:44 PM
i generally try to punish landings
7:45 PM
i basically assume i won't get any shines / hits on falcon when he's on the ground
7:45 PM
so usually i try to force falcon to full hop
7:45 PM
and punish his landing
7:45 PM
so i try to get falcon when he lands on a platform in particular
7:45 PM
with falco's shine (under a platform) waveland
7:45 PM
that thing
Lloyd Ikari
7:45 PM
So most Falcon's do fullhop?
pigm00ner
7:45 PM
yeah
Lloyd Ikari
7:45 PM
Because that's something that I've been learning
pigm00ner
7:45 PM
fullhop is the best solution
Lloyd Ikari
7:45 PM
is really really good
pigm00ner
7:46 PM
and honestly the only way to approach a good falco
7:46 PM
the problem with that is it's really hard for falcon to set the pacing
7:46 PM
but what most falcons don't realize
7:46 PM
is that they're really hard for falco to catch
7:46 PM
i think they underestimate how much work falco has to put
7:46 PM
just to get simple hits
Lloyd Ikari
7:46 PM
Mmhmm
pigm00ner
7:46 PM
falcon is actually pretty tough to catch
7:46 PM
so the matchup is kinda
7:46 PM
cat and mouse
7:46 PM
on both sides
7:47 PM
so the mixups with the fullhops
7:47 PM
are usually like
7:47 PM
forward fullhop or backward full hop
7:47 PM
you can fake an approach / push falco into a corner
7:47 PM
and then trap him there
Lloyd Ikari
7:47 PM
okay
pigm00ner
7:47 PM
or try to hit falco
7:47 PM
in between his lasers
7:47 PM
if he doesn't space himself well
7:47 PM
and yeah as hax said
7:48 PM
being very aggro is good imo
7:48 PM
if you find those openings
7:48 PM
realistically a falco is just gonna keep lasering
7:48 PM
but if you can prevent this then falcon can win
Lloyd Ikari
7:48 PM
Basically you feel like Lasers are what need to be countered?
pigm00ner
7:48 PM
well
7:48 PM
sort of
7:48 PM
lasers only do so much
7:49 PM
lasers don't make it that much easier
7:49 PM
for falco to hit falco
7:49 PM
falcon*
7:49 PM
they make it harder for falcon to hit falco
7:49 PM
that's all
Lloyd Ikari
7:49 PM
So the same way that Hugs was talking about the SAmus/Falco match up
7:49 PM
Stopping offense with yours
pigm00ner
7:49 PM
yeah
7:49 PM
basically
7:50 PM
i think the mindset falcon should have is
7:50 PM
thinking in terms of damage ratio
7:50 PM
hitting falco while taking less
7:50 PM
mos tfalcons just try to **** falco
7:50 PM
but i think the key is to not give falco free hits
7:50 PM
learn to space things so falco can't get in
Lloyd Ikari
7:50 PM
And what do you mean by that?
7:50 PM
Lol you beat me to it
pigm00ner
7:50 PM
and once falco is conditioned
7:51 PM
to play too conservatively / scared
7:51 PM
that's when falcon should go in
7:51 PM
that's kinda what mango does to me in particular
7:51 PM
but i mean
7:51 PM
i'm not too sure what the right way to play it is
7:51 PM
ss for example almost never full hops
7:51 PM
he just stays in his shield
7:51 PM
and approaches from the ground
7:51 PM
but it works for him
Lloyd Ikari
7:52 PM
Well there never is a "right way" lol
7:52 PM
Just your experiences
pigm00ner
7:52 PM
haha yeah
Lloyd Ikari
7:52 PM
And that's basically what I was asking for
pigm00ner
7:52 PM
well "right way" as in
7:52 PM
the way i think is best
7:52 PM
and i'm honestly not too sure
7:52 PM
but full hops
7:52 PM
seem to be the most popular
7:52 PM
but i feel like
Lloyd Ikari
7:52 PM
well because they're easy
pigm00ner
7:52 PM
if falco really sees the pattern
7:52 PM
he'll **** it eventually
7:52 PM
so i'm not sure haha
Lloyd Ikari
7:53 PM
seems more like a player thing than a character thing imo
pigm00ner
7:53 PM
mmm
7:53 PM
yeah
7:53 PM
it's weird cause
7:53 PM
this is one of the matchups
7:53 PM
i have the most experience in
7:53 PM
but i feel like i have very little to say about it
Lloyd Ikari
7:53 PM
Lol I know what you mean
pigm00ner
7:53 PM
there aren't many specifics that i do
7:53 PM
in particular to falcon
7:54 PM
i kinda just chase him
7:54 PM
LOL
Lloyd Ikari
7:54 PM
Yeah
7:54 PM
Well I mean you have to
pigm00ner
7:54 PM
but i mean
7:54 PM
i don't know if many falcons know this
7:54 PM
but its actually really frustrating
7:54 PM
for a falco to chase falcon
7:54 PM
it's hard caues falcon's so fast
7:54 PM
i mean all falcos know how frustrating it is for falcons
7:54 PM
but i think most falcons assume falcos think its free
Lloyd Ikari
7:54 PM
because we john about it
7:54 PM
as loud as possible
7:55 PM
pigm00ner
7:55 PM
but its not that free of a matchup
7:55 PM
at least not in our minds
7:55 PM
but yeah
7:55 PM
oh i know
7:55 PM
good falcons
7:55 PM
kinda play brawl style
7:55 PM
they space attacks
7:55 PM
to not hit
7:55 PM
like
7:55 PM
mango throws attacks alot of the time
Lloyd Ikari
7:55 PM
Like S2J said
pigm00ner
7:55 PM
to intentionally miss
7:55 PM
and just push me out
Lloyd Ikari
7:56 PM
And then catch you when you retaliate
pigm00ner
7:56 PM
yeah
7:56 PM
exactly
7:56 PM
gotta do a lot of safe baits
Lloyd Ikari
7:56 PM
yeah because S2J was talking about on shield
7:56 PM
whiff a bair [autocancelled]
7:56 PM
and then ftilt
pigm00ner
7:56 PM
LOL
7:56 PM
that's interesting
Lloyd Ikari
7:56 PM
I mean that's just a player thing
7:56 PM
Mindgames
pigm00ner
7:56 PM
ahha
7:56 PM
i don't recommend
7:57 PM
shielding too much
7:57 PM
against good falcos
7:57 PM
LOL
7:57 PM
or at least
Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Lol you gotta come to the Falcon boards more man
7:57 PM
we say some dumb ****
pigm00ner
7:57 PM
don't let them in the shield
7:57 PM
hahahaha
7:57 PM
all the boards suck these days
Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Yeah that's soemthing I've been working on
7:57 PM
is shield pressure
pigm00ner
7:57 PM
unfortunately for falcon
Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Yeah I know, but I've been trying to keep it classy
pigm00ner
7:57 PM
his shield pressure
Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Keep things moving/discussion centered
pigm00ner
7:57 PM
can be reacted to
Lloyd Ikari
7:57 PM
Yeah it can
pigm00ner
7:57 PM
even if you do mixups
7:57 PM
it's really obvoius
7:57 PM
what you're trying to go for
7:58 PM
cause most falcos
7:58 PM
are used to like
7:58 PM
lightning fast fox pressure
7:58 PM
we're ready for any late aerial / jab / grab mixups
7:58 PM
=/
Lloyd Ikari
7:58 PM
Yep
7:58 PM
But at least your shine sucks horizontall
7:58 PM
y
7:58 PM
pigm00ner
7:58 PM
haha yeah
Lloyd Ikari
7:58 PM
I dunno
7:58 PM
Again I've been trying to work with it
7:58 PM
Because it's just mindgames
7:59 PM
Getting you to select an option I want you to select and punishing it
pigm00ner
7:59 PM
yeah exactly
7:59 PM
it's even tougher cause
7:59 PM
there are so few opportunities
7:59 PM
to condition falco anyways
7:59 PM
it's very rare that i see falcon getting to shield pressure falco these days
Lloyd Ikari
7:59 PM
Yep
7:59 PM
Well I meant in general
8:00 PM
But I know what you're saying
8:00 PM
It's the same thing with tech chases
8:00 PM
You rarely get a chance to watch for patterns