Toronto Joe
Smash Master
did well at my tourney, today got 240$
hows everyone been? i havent posted in time =x
hows everyone been? i havent posted in time =x
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
FGD~ Time to get SHTL done
- Thread starter Xiivi
- Start date
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
nah lbt is in a couple weeks,today was a different tourney...it was huge though 55ppl!
m-d exploded after creating the epic fox boards picture
m-d exploded after creating the epic fox boards picture
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Lol! MD has been reeeeally busy with his art. He barely has time to work on the Fox boards picture, but he says he's been planning some time aside for it. He misses his Wii a lot.
Funny how TJoe won almost enough to buy a Wii...
Funny how TJoe won almost enough to buy a Wii...
Conviction
Human Nature
HEY I MADE 1st PLACE!
......
but no one came so I was
1/1
1)Iblis
......
but no one came so I was
1/1
1)Iblis
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
ur also #1 in tjoes heart <3
we told m-d not to sell his wii =[
we told m-d not to sell his wii =[
Lightning93
Smash Champion
*Is jealous.*
STFU Tjoe.
...
I went to Japan town today for my friend's birthday.
All of America should be freaking Japan town.
STFU Tjoe.
...
I went to Japan town today for my friend's birthday.
All of America should be freaking Japan town.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
unfortunately, since the payout was 60/30/10 and the entry fee was $10, you actually lost $4 to nowhere.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
And I love getting Sasuke's milk.
(Btw thanks for saving my life.)
(Btw thanks for saving my life.)
Kanzaki
Smash Champion
Fox won me my first round of a tourney match in 6 months today! :D
Nah I'm not that bad, I just haven't been to a tourney in 6 months. First round went my main(Mario) vs. a spammy Metaknight, and lost, so I went Fox and ran around spamming lasers until I could upsmash and won xD Then I went Luigi and won again :]
And I didn't use Fox again that tourney >.>
But yea, I'm actually considering making Fox my singles main.
Nah I'm not that bad, I just haven't been to a tourney in 6 months. First round went my main(Mario) vs. a spammy Metaknight, and lost, so I went Fox and ran around spamming lasers until I could upsmash and won xD Then I went Luigi and won again :]
And I didn't use Fox again that tourney >.>
But yea, I'm actually considering making Fox my singles main.
Conviction
Human Nature
Good choice maybe we can teach what there is more to do than Lasers and Usmash.
Kanzaki
Smash Champion
Fox was actually my counter vs. spammy Metaknights and chain grabbing DDD when I was tourney active... and I think I won more than I lost using Fox :D
My main strat with Fox was run in circles spamming lasers, and then eventually upsmash, but there's already a few basic stuff I know with Fox :]
My main strat with Fox was run in circles spamming lasers, and then eventually upsmash, but there's already a few basic stuff I know with Fox :]
what!? more to fox than lasers and upsmash? since when!?
Being serious i think we should all drop the fancy, what might work stuff and the uber tactical playstyle... all you need is lasers and upsmash and Nair to play effectively, if i played the game more i would show you guys what i mean.
I'm just trying to say iv had an increasing amount of success playing gay instead of playing fairly.
SHTL kicks ***... use it
i miss being fancy and all but seriously, if you have a stupid amount of laser pressure and an uncanny ability to read your opponent, Fox *****
Being serious i think we should all drop the fancy, what might work stuff and the uber tactical playstyle... all you need is lasers and upsmash and Nair to play effectively, if i played the game more i would show you guys what i mean.
I'm just trying to say iv had an increasing amount of success playing gay instead of playing fairly.
SHTL kicks ***... use it
i miss being fancy and all but seriously, if you have a stupid amount of laser pressure and an uncanny ability to read your opponent, Fox *****
Conviction
Human Nature
DarkAura this game is the more you gay the more you win....BUT people try not to resort to that otherwise this game's Metagame would have been fully developed because people would try and find betters ways to be gay and use them and toss the shoulda,coulda,woulda worked stuff out the window.
I have no problem with you playing that way DarkAura but I'm probably never gonna play like that.
I have no problem with you playing that way DarkAura but I'm probably never gonna play like that.
yeah im not saying we should all stop playing the way we play but it's something to consider.
Also i believe we've overlooked being extremely aggressive, fox may not have many approach options but if you think, ANYTHING will work, once you start laying some pressure on continuously increase that pressure and trust me after you don't give your opponent a break they become very predictable. Iv also been looking at the way some foxes play and iv come to realize that the players are underestimating their own character. Fox kicks ***, he's faster than most characters, can apply pressure very well and can space while constantly applying damage, and it makes me angry seeing as not many foxes use this to their advantage
If you disagree feel free to say so, i enjoy hearing peoples opinions.
Also i believe we've overlooked being extremely aggressive, fox may not have many approach options but if you think, ANYTHING will work, once you start laying some pressure on continuously increase that pressure and trust me after you don't give your opponent a break they become very predictable. Iv also been looking at the way some foxes play and iv come to realize that the players are underestimating their own character. Fox kicks ***, he's faster than most characters, can apply pressure very well and can space while constantly applying damage, and it makes me angry seeing as not many foxes use this to their advantage
If you disagree feel free to say so, i enjoy hearing peoples opinions.
Conviction
Human Nature
I usually switch between passive agressive and extreme agressive....BUT another is there really hasn't be a creative discussion on how to boost Fox's Metagame in a while.
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
Straight-up aggression at best will work on low-medium level players. People without too much Fox MU experience or aren't that good anyway will cave easily into pressure because, yes, Fox is fast, but that doesn't make any of his actual attacks any safer. He has "meh" approaching options. Most characters can stuff them with their OoS options, or by baiting and punishing, etc. You can't rely on your opponent being bad for you to get better.
I still mess around with Fox occasioanlly, and IMO Fox mains should collectively look into what Fox does really well and really badly as well as his unique traits that not many others have, accept all of them, and work from there. I'm probably wrong on some things because I don't use Fox that much, only in friendlies or non-serious matches, but from what I can tell
He's really good at:
-Moving vertically. Not many other characters can control vertical momentum as well as him, because he has a fast and decently high jump, rising F-air, extremely quick fast fall, shine-stalling, and aerials that fit well with vertical movement.
-Punishing grounded lag from far away, particularly with dash U-smash
-Having safe options behind a shield
-Laser pokes
While he's bad at:
-Horizontally approaching. He has some decent approach options, but they're nothing special. Most characters can cope with them.
-Punishing horizontal approaches. Again, he has decent options, but nothing special. Most characters can get around them.
-Avoiding getting grabbed. Decent options, but again, nothing special. Repetitive yes. Things like retreating N-air or F-air work most of the time, but a lot of his things have just enough amounts of lag to them. Mess up once and you're grabbed, and things like B-air are hard to space perfectly.
-Getting a consistent kill. His kill moves themselves are good but he has some difficulty setting them up. I wouldn't say he's bad at this, he just could be better.
With this information, I personally would capitalize on a more overlooked aspect of Brawl, vertical spacing, and use his good vertical movement to see what I could do to approach or eliminate options in that aspect. Juggling, avoiding juggling, aerial approaching, etc. This with a combination of lasers means I don't have to take traditional horizontal approaches, which Fox isn't great at, nearly as much, and it will be harder for the opponent to horizontally approach me with me alternating from ground to air a lot.
Because of this, I like to play a lot of friendlies on Battlefield or other platformed stages whenever I can to try and see if the stage layout buffs my style of play. I try little gimmicky things I think of in my head and see if they can develop into something more consistent, such as full-hopping and dropping above your opponent, shining to wait for their reaction, cross-up if they shield or punish if they spotdodge or whiff an attack.
I don't know or think this is the best strategy, and I'm not saying, "EVERYONE DO THIS!!1 IT GOOD". It just makes sense in my head and it's a playstyle I want to look extensively into.
I still mess around with Fox occasioanlly, and IMO Fox mains should collectively look into what Fox does really well and really badly as well as his unique traits that not many others have, accept all of them, and work from there. I'm probably wrong on some things because I don't use Fox that much, only in friendlies or non-serious matches, but from what I can tell
He's really good at:
-Moving vertically. Not many other characters can control vertical momentum as well as him, because he has a fast and decently high jump, rising F-air, extremely quick fast fall, shine-stalling, and aerials that fit well with vertical movement.
-Punishing grounded lag from far away, particularly with dash U-smash
-Having safe options behind a shield
-Laser pokes
While he's bad at:
-Horizontally approaching. He has some decent approach options, but they're nothing special. Most characters can cope with them.
-Punishing horizontal approaches. Again, he has decent options, but nothing special. Most characters can get around them.
-Avoiding getting grabbed. Decent options, but again, nothing special. Repetitive yes. Things like retreating N-air or F-air work most of the time, but a lot of his things have just enough amounts of lag to them. Mess up once and you're grabbed, and things like B-air are hard to space perfectly.
-Getting a consistent kill. His kill moves themselves are good but he has some difficulty setting them up. I wouldn't say he's bad at this, he just could be better.
With this information, I personally would capitalize on a more overlooked aspect of Brawl, vertical spacing, and use his good vertical movement to see what I could do to approach or eliminate options in that aspect. Juggling, avoiding juggling, aerial approaching, etc. This with a combination of lasers means I don't have to take traditional horizontal approaches, which Fox isn't great at, nearly as much, and it will be harder for the opponent to horizontally approach me with me alternating from ground to air a lot.
Because of this, I like to play a lot of friendlies on Battlefield or other platformed stages whenever I can to try and see if the stage layout buffs my style of play. I try little gimmicky things I think of in my head and see if they can develop into something more consistent, such as full-hopping and dropping above your opponent, shining to wait for their reaction, cross-up if they shield or punish if they spotdodge or whiff an attack.
I don't know or think this is the best strategy, and I'm not saying, "EVERYONE DO THIS!!1 IT GOOD". It just makes sense in my head and it's a playstyle I want to look extensively into.
Kanzaki
Smash Champion
The reason I play Fox the way I do, is if a Metaknight has to rely on spamming against my MARIO, or if a DDD has to rely on chain throwing against my Mario as well, then eff that, I'm going to run in circles spamming laser xD
Fino
Smash Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmBwMN6AjB4
Zeton, Clel, and very fast fingers
Zeton, Clel, and very fast fingers
Conviction
Human Nature
Omg this is not 08 anymore A_Panda >.> (Well at least in the Bad areas are 08 playstyle mistakes)
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
"This is Brawl. wtf?" I lol'd so much.
@Ilbis
Mind elaborating? Again, while I only play Fox much during friendlies and don't watch too many videos of top level Foxes, I can't see how not having good approaching or one amazing super safe high priority high attack move is a player mistake.
Conviction
Human Nature
Defense as Fox at first looks crappy but it is usually due to the player doing it wrong.
Laser Camping as most wouldn't know it is more than running to the edge and lasering, jumping in one spot with your lasers is a bad with leads me into spacing with your lasers, spacing with your laser are important due to the fact it draws an approach from your opponet and you can react just as fast they move. I'd love to explain spacing with lasers more but I can just get you vids of what I'm talking about (lol my vids)
First Vid: Bad Fox Camping - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIvIji7uGpQ
Second Vid: Good Fox Camping - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc98JLN9mUA
Horizontal approaches include Lagless SH Fair and SH Lagless Bair, Early Nair, Late Nair, IA Nair, Dash Shield Grab, Pivot Wave Grab, Dair (I suppose but I recomend landing behind them as Dair is ending),Ftilt, lol Jab too for people with horrible grabs. <- All these things with proper spacing are safe. Some safer than others.
Punishing Horizontal approaches... should be self explaintory Fox would be D Tier if he couldn't punish approaches.
If you are using Fair,Nair and Bair correctly you shouldn't get grabbed a lot (not saying you won't get grabbed), there is also camping to completely aviod the grab.
Kills should come from punishment not Fox going for the kill >.< (Makes me remember with I SDI'd a Yoshi's Dair then Usmashed him while he was doing it.) But seriously your not supposed to be trying to force the kill. I find foxtrotting back and forth next to my opponet brings Fox's speed up to the table and allows punishment for what couldn't be punished by others.
Like I said I personally believe Fox is mid-low B Tier.
Laser Camping as most wouldn't know it is more than running to the edge and lasering, jumping in one spot with your lasers is a bad with leads me into spacing with your lasers, spacing with your laser are important due to the fact it draws an approach from your opponet and you can react just as fast they move. I'd love to explain spacing with lasers more but I can just get you vids of what I'm talking about (lol my vids)
First Vid: Bad Fox Camping - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIvIji7uGpQ
Second Vid: Good Fox Camping - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc98JLN9mUA
Horizontal approaches include Lagless SH Fair and SH Lagless Bair, Early Nair, Late Nair, IA Nair, Dash Shield Grab, Pivot Wave Grab, Dair (I suppose but I recomend landing behind them as Dair is ending),Ftilt, lol Jab too for people with horrible grabs. <- All these things with proper spacing are safe. Some safer than others.
Punishing Horizontal approaches... should be self explaintory Fox would be D Tier if he couldn't punish approaches.
If you are using Fair,Nair and Bair correctly you shouldn't get grabbed a lot (not saying you won't get grabbed), there is also camping to completely aviod the grab.
Kills should come from punishment not Fox going for the kill >.< (Makes me remember with I SDI'd a Yoshi's Dair then Usmashed him while he was doing it.) But seriously your not supposed to be trying to force the kill. I find foxtrotting back and forth next to my opponet brings Fox's speed up to the table and allows punishment for what couldn't be punished by others.
Like I said I personally believe Fox is mid-low B Tier.
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
Not sure why I said he had bad defensive options against approaches, I think I was only thinking of one match-up or something.
For his approaches, I recognize that he has a lot of decent ones but I don't see them as anything stellar. Most of those things you listed are decent approaches (but F-tilt as an approach?) but aren't great; many characters have solutions against them. For example, SH F-air is good because you can make it hard to punish by retreating, but many characters can easily get around it. Some characters like Marth and MK just have better F-airs, projectile characters can use their projectiles OoS, roll away and fire, or something because the duration of F-air is long, people can use OoS attacks, etc.
The way I see it, his approaches aren't shut downs or poke-til-you-screw-up-then-get-***** or anything like that. Example: Say you're fighting Snake, he F-tilts with good spacing and you shield, and you're thinking, "Crap I can't grab him, do I stay in shield?" and he first hit F-tilts again "My shield will wear out, do I roll away? No, he can DACUS on reaction, roll towards him? no, F-tilt or U-tilt, uhh spotdodge? No, same problem, try to jump and F-air? No my F-air isn't fast enough, stupid disjointed F-tilt" and at best you leave with a weakened shield and are frightened of F-tilt for a while. Only characters with really good OoS options for that situation will be able to punish him or get away safely (shuttle loop, OoS glide toss), while the majority of the time you just end up getting hit because Snake can cover 6 out of the 7 options you have and be in good zones after you're hit.
With Fox when he approaches, he himself is safe from being hit, which is why he's pretty good at punishing because he has a lot of decent safe moves, but if you shield a spaced F-air or something, you're just thinking, "okay, that's over, now what?" Get hit by an early N-air, and it's like, "okay, gotta respace. Fox is pretty safe from his approaches but unfortunately his opponents have a lot of options out of them as well.
I may be wrong, but from the videos I've seen and the Fox's I've played and the people I've played against as Fox, it's like Fox hits you once, and a couple seconds later he comes around and hits you again. I've never felt intensely pressured against a Fox like I have against Snake or MK because they don't seem to be able to perform complete corner no-way-out traps. That's how I feel when I say Fox's approaches are nothing special; he has the tools to approach against many situations, but opponents have the tools to stay safe in all of those.
For his approaches, I recognize that he has a lot of decent ones but I don't see them as anything stellar. Most of those things you listed are decent approaches (but F-tilt as an approach?) but aren't great; many characters have solutions against them. For example, SH F-air is good because you can make it hard to punish by retreating, but many characters can easily get around it. Some characters like Marth and MK just have better F-airs, projectile characters can use their projectiles OoS, roll away and fire, or something because the duration of F-air is long, people can use OoS attacks, etc.
The way I see it, his approaches aren't shut downs or poke-til-you-screw-up-then-get-***** or anything like that. Example: Say you're fighting Snake, he F-tilts with good spacing and you shield, and you're thinking, "Crap I can't grab him, do I stay in shield?" and he first hit F-tilts again "My shield will wear out, do I roll away? No, he can DACUS on reaction, roll towards him? no, F-tilt or U-tilt, uhh spotdodge? No, same problem, try to jump and F-air? No my F-air isn't fast enough, stupid disjointed F-tilt" and at best you leave with a weakened shield and are frightened of F-tilt for a while. Only characters with really good OoS options for that situation will be able to punish him or get away safely (shuttle loop, OoS glide toss), while the majority of the time you just end up getting hit because Snake can cover 6 out of the 7 options you have and be in good zones after you're hit.
With Fox when he approaches, he himself is safe from being hit, which is why he's pretty good at punishing because he has a lot of decent safe moves, but if you shield a spaced F-air or something, you're just thinking, "okay, that's over, now what?" Get hit by an early N-air, and it's like, "okay, gotta respace. Fox is pretty safe from his approaches but unfortunately his opponents have a lot of options out of them as well.
I may be wrong, but from the videos I've seen and the Fox's I've played and the people I've played against as Fox, it's like Fox hits you once, and a couple seconds later he comes around and hits you again. I've never felt intensely pressured against a Fox like I have against Snake or MK because they don't seem to be able to perform complete corner no-way-out traps. That's how I feel when I say Fox's approaches are nothing special; he has the tools to approach against many situations, but opponents have the tools to stay safe in all of those.
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
lulzuzluzluzluzlzuluzluzlzu!~!~!~!!!~!!!~!~!!~!!
Conviction
Human Nature
You are so mean NBK lol
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
Lol I just got back from a Carnival cruise and I didn't know what you guys were talking about so I just chimed in with a lululzlzuz!~!!~!~! ;D
I definitely lost $300 playing blackjack, won it back, and now I am down $45 bucks. ;D
Fun times.
I definitely lost $300 playing blackjack, won it back, and now I am down $45 bucks. ;D
Fun times.
Conviction
Human Nature
well you're stupid then 
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
insta-subject change.
You nearly blew $300 playing blackjack? @__@
You nearly blew $300 playing blackjack? @__@
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
It so fast though lol. 10 dollar minimum gets dangerous when you start getting greedy and betting 25 a hand =3
It also fun to play with drunk women =3 they get really touchy ;D
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
tl;dr
whats new guys : 3
also that controler vid was pretty cool, lol
whats new guys : 3
also that controler vid was pretty cool, lol
Kanzaki
Smash Champion
I stopped reading that whole essay after like the 2nd sentence.
tl;dr for sure xD
tl;dr for sure xD
Lightning93
Smash Champion
LUZLUZLUZLUZ!~!~!!~!~! Best return I've seen in a while.
And um, I hope all the drunk women were under 40. But if they weren't, well, um... I would feel bad for the poor kid whose mom played blackjack with NKB.
And um, I hope all the drunk women were under 40. But if they weren't, well, um... I would feel bad for the poor kid whose mom played blackjack with NKB.
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260812
i almost **** my pants when i read this.
the airdodge system sounds perfect!
GET HYPE!
i almost **** my pants when i read this.
the airdodge system sounds perfect!
GET HYPE!
hmmm... sounds interesting, if they don't screw it up.
It's too bad they included "all other Brawl+ changes" because I don't like half of what was done in Brawl+.
At least this sounds like it requires a little more technical skill.
It's too bad they included "all other Brawl+ changes" because I don't like half of what was done in Brawl+.
At least this sounds like it requires a little more technical skill.
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
yeah, the higher grav and momentum, really mess with me when i play brawl+, it ****s over all of fox's autocancels cept for b-air, and thats like the crux of my style ><
it actually makes the game feel slower than regular brawl.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
they changed the physics from brawl+ i thought that thread said
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
I am really scared of my pools at Pound because I barely know anything about the players.
I only know ksizzle and smurf.
Pool 13
Ksizzle (I know he is a MK)
Ling Ling (I'm pretty sure he is a D3)
NeverKnowsBest (watches anime)
Ragnar0k (He uses DK and Wario)
Smurf (Pit I think)
Spork (No idea)
I only know ksizzle and smurf.
Pool 13
Ksizzle (I know he is a MK)
Ling Ling (I'm pretty sure he is a D3)
NeverKnowsBest (watches anime)
Ragnar0k (He uses DK and Wario)
Smurf (Pit I think)
Spork (No idea)
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
dude, zeton's fox sent lains ice climbers into losers at the tourny he just went too.
O.o!
O.o!
Sukai
Smash Champion
Win or don't come home.