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FGD~ Time to get SHTL done
- Thread starter Xiivi
- Start date
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
Yeah to be honest, the neutral air and the forward tilt are really amazing. I am starting to find myself pivoting into forward tilts after throwing out and empty back air to gain momentum for the pivot to go further.
OO and GOOD **** ZHAMY for hitting your 1k!!!!
OO and GOOD **** ZHAMY for hitting your 1k!!!!
KheldarVII
Smash Ace
F-tilt becomes more amazing when you angle it upwards.
§witch
Smash Lord
<3 Ankoku.
Yeah, fox gets ***** badly in too many match-ups.
But, at least he's fast and kills like a beast, so he can kind of avoid a lot.
Yeah, fox gets ***** badly in too many match-ups.
But, at least he's fast and kills like a beast, so he can kind of avoid a lot.
Gotham7
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
- Messages
- 75
To be honest I think any of Fox's bad match up's can be overcome by smart and careful play. If you use your lasers, and grabs properly I think it is more than possible to beat an opponent.
What do you guys think of grab release Usmash? Do you think its a viable tactic to get kills?
What do you guys think of grab release Usmash? Do you think its a viable tactic to get kills?
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
I'm pretty sure i've tested that and all you can get out of it is them power shielding you. But then again im not sure.
well the same sort of thing can be said about the opponent, if they just play a certain way they can more than beat you.
Gotham7
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
- Messages
- 75
A thing I think that is overlooked is gimping your opponents recovery. If you can shine spike a character like Luigi early you can gain a huge advantage in the match.
Although it can be tough and risky if you don't get the spike (semi spike w/e)
Although it can be tough and risky if you don't get the spike (semi spike w/e)
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
I fight luigi a good deal of the time, and you have to time the shine perfectly or your screwed badly.
He can recover better than you and ***** you in the air, now put 2 and 2 together and you have an extremely risky time gimping him.
That has nothing to do with matchups, everything to do with player skill.
No, because it doesn't work.
It's not overlooked; it's well evaluated. Risk/reward analysis shows shine spiking someone like Luigi is not worth it most of the time.
Sukai
Smash Champion
I'll see into it, I'm currently mastering opportunities for pivot (or wave) grabs.
On the Fox Luigi subject.
You'll sooner edgehog Luigi before you shine spike him.
Most good Luigis recover from above the stage for one, and when it comes down to it, Fox can't space--and his priority could be better.
I heard from SCOTU that Fox's shine has the Wolf effect (invincibility on frame 3), but because Fox's cancels momentum, can't use it like Wolf's.
Sukai
Smash Champion
Hm, maybe I should stop trying to us it defensively.
crifer
Smash Lord
I mean I believe Scotu knows much about smash and his frame research but I never had the feeling that shine has Invincibility frames. Never.
This post belongs to lightning 93, almighty godfather of Fox.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
yeah, shine has invincibility from 1-3 and hits on 3.
it CAN be used to mash out of stuff that doesn't hit hard (i.e. doesn't send into tumble), but if it does send into tumble, then you'll have to wait longer than if you air dodged/attacked, cause you'd actually have to wait out the hitstun (instead of IASA it on frame 13 w/ an air dodge or 25 w/ an attack). silly specials.
it CAN be used to mash out of stuff that doesn't hit hard (i.e. doesn't send into tumble), but if it does send into tumble, then you'll have to wait longer than if you air dodged/attacked, cause you'd actually have to wait out the hitstun (instead of IASA it on frame 13 w/ an air dodge or 25 w/ an attack). silly specials.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
If we're on the topic of shines, I would agree it's very useful if you've ever been in a spot-dodge battle (i.e. spot-dodging while waiting for an opportunity to grab your opponent while he does the same thing) to shine if he is about to win. From there, mental hit stun allows a chance for some quick approaches into combos.
In this case mental hitstun corresponds to the timing of your shine. If you shine RIGHT before you get grabbed, hitstun will be greater. If you throw it out as an offensive move however, expect no follow up.
In this case mental hitstun corresponds to the timing of your shine. If you shine RIGHT before you get grabbed, hitstun will be greater. If you throw it out as an offensive move however, expect no follow up.
RPK
Smash Lord
Actaully...Grab Release->Upsmash does work. You just have to catch the opponent when he is in the air in order to ensure a force air release. Besides that, unless they press jump, theyre going to ground release because Fox is way too short.
KheldarVII
Smash Ace
I've heard several explanations on how to force an air release and the only one that works 100% for me is when you grab attack a couple times and then stop and they break out during the pause. If it's too close to the attacks it forces a ground release.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
how air grab releases work:
(in order of priority)
if when they break, you had hit them within the last # frames they ground break.
If their feet are in the air they will air break
If they input a jump command or up-on the cstick(in smash) at some point while struggling out, they will air break.
This means, if you can pummel fast enough, you can force a ground break. If your character's holds the other character high enough off the ground (or at the edge) you can force an air break. Otherwise, it's up to the other person to either hit a jump input or not.
(in order of priority)
if when they break, you had hit them within the last # frames they ground break.
If their feet are in the air they will air break
If they input a jump command or up-on the cstick(in smash) at some point while struggling out, they will air break.
This means, if you can pummel fast enough, you can force a ground break. If your character's holds the other character high enough off the ground (or at the edge) you can force an air break. Otherwise, it's up to the other person to either hit a jump input or not.
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
-pumps blood into the fox boards-
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Yes I find it incredibly annoying, mostly because I can't picture the spot where I should recover. That's why I always use a rising F-air before I do anything else.
I think Lylat is much worse in terms of having to use a Firefox, but then again make sure you get back on stage before you are forced to use one.
I think Lylat is much worse in terms of having to use a Firefox, but then again make sure you get back on stage before you are forced to use one.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
stadium 1 is awesome. you can do things like a whole bunch of uairs through the stage before having to autosnap to the edge w/ a shuttle loop.
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
Stadium 1 is pretty sweet.
just need a little practice to make sure you sweet spot, and miss the lip.
just need a little practice to make sure you sweet spot, and miss the lip.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
Fox can shuttle loop? O.o!!
at least on PS1 you can't randomly fall through when you recover like on Delfino
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
yay Tjoe 
Good ****. Keep it up, guys.hey, congrats to toronto joe and his partner cyan for ****** the new AIB doubles ladder with their team "*** Yo Couch"
they are currently second
KheldarVII
Smash Ace
He is an MK player after all.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Lol me and R00kie pretty much failed, our team is good, but West + East Coast is generally a bad idea.
Keep it going TJOe!
Keep it going TJOe!
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
before it wasnt that big of an issue for me, then when i decided to practice my Mk more, fox didnt feel right all of a sudden, i can still hold my own with him though...i just try and play exactly like i do offline and do my best to not take advantage of how h4x Fox can be on wifi, either way your sitll going to pick up bad habits from playing online....yay me and cyan got 1st
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
since i play Wifi more often than offline it doesn't bother me so much, although it does make me..
not able to SHDL
Hoovering Fair
make me Dair more often
my Dtilt shenanigans have no effect
thats about it, although i still can't effectively PWG for the life of me
Gotham7
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
- Messages
- 75
Yeah, that's why I play wifi rarely. I'm going to apex and it's going to be my first tourny. I play brawl every week with my friends but I feel like it's not enough. I'll be so disappointed if I go to APEX and do poorly. I plan on using Fox and I don't plan on using other characters.
Every other tournament besides APEX is an hour away and I'm too lazy to drive by myself all the way there. Also it's hard to convince my friends to go all that way. Maybe after APEX I'll start going to more tournaments. Wish there were more in central jersey, they all seem to be in north jersey.
Every other tournament besides APEX is an hour away and I'm too lazy to drive by myself all the way there. Also it's hard to convince my friends to go all that way. Maybe after APEX I'll start going to more tournaments. Wish there were more in central jersey, they all seem to be in north jersey.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Hey you guys should populate the Fox chat.
xat.com/flamedash
xat.com/flamedash
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
ya, but most of my offline play is FFA's and jab>dtilt catchs my friends offguard sometimes
but online its even more trash.
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
no love for the tail whip : P
SCOTU
Smash Hero
because dtilt is slower, and knocks them into the air (the place where fox has the most advantage). dtilt is **** against ppl who spot dodge, or try to grab expecting an ftilt.
KheldarVII
Smash Ace
I don't know, when does a person ever expect Fox to use F-tilt? This means you'd have to be spamming it beforehand.