Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

[#HBC | Ryker]

Some of them individually, yes. In such a ****ing multitude, no. Things like the risk-reward I outlined in his motivation for Nickel are horrendous and I couldn't see anyway.

Kantrip, the only person I could even possibly be swayed to lynch other than Nich is you.

 

[Raziek]

We gain absolutely nothing from a Rajam lynch in terms of reads. Nich is almost certainly going to be role blocked if left alone.

As much as I would love for Rajam to die, he's a waste of a lynch.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No clue as to who his scummates would be but if he flips town I will be looking back and checking to see who endorsed Ryker's case without really explaining why and having no reasons of their own to vote him. I can't remember anyone's stance on Nich that doesn't have something to do with Ryker's case at this point so I figure scum must be hiding behind the generalities of just agreeing with a giant case. This includes you, Legolas, Raziek, Glyph, and Inferno, RR and Nickel I think... I haven't checked back to see if you guys highlighted some stuff you agreed with and I've completely forgotten whether or you guys had independent reasoning as to why Nich was scum. Not to mention regardless of flip, I still have to look into Kantrip, Seph, RR, Nickel, and Inferno because there's just not much to go on.

I don't see how I'm among the people that were just "agreeing" with Ryker's case. Nobody openly suspected Nich before I did [which goes back at like page 1 of this game] and a lot of Ryker's big case is based on what I said about Nich. Not to say he just parroted me but I don't see how anybody could possibly conclude that I just went on "agreeing" with him ... if anything I was agreeing with myself. Ryker himself I still find impossible to trust and I'm alarmed by how many people have him as obvtown read.

A lot of the rest sounds agreeable, especially the people to look into regardless of Nich's flip. Rajam belongs in that list too if vig doesn't kill him.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Gheb: Where do you look assuming we lynch Nich and he flips town?

Raz, Ryker, Nickel, Lego - in that order.
Gonna look at you regardless of what Nich flips, same for Gova plus the inactive bunch

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Raz, your reads are still pretty much worthless tbh. Other than Gova leaning scum you haven't offered us anything new and you don't even back your read on Gova up other than a random disagreement with RR, who has listed him as town. Considering how many bigger posts and how much content this game has the stuff you point out about players in your quotes is pretty lackluster. Still don't like.

 

[Raziek]

I gave you a quick re-read with the time I have. Be happy you got anything at all. *coughrajamcough*

 

[Raziek]

Furthermore, since when did reads have to offer groundbreaking work? If I don't read someone in a way, I'm not going to say I do just to be different.

How you even criticize me for having similar reads to other players is beyond me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Similar reads =/= reads that are 99% the same with little back-up.

 

[Raziek]

Again, why are you expecting me to have radically different reads? I'm not going to lie about my reads, and I lack time right now to go in-depth on every single read. I will do so later today if time permits.

 

[Inferno3044]

I actually kinda want to have Nich live today due to his investigation, but I don't see that happening. If we can find a better lynch, then I might agree. Another question I just realized, who's Seph? I barely remember that person is in the game.

 

[Nicholas1024]

You know what, I gave up here too early, I think there's still hope. A very small strand, admittedly, but it's there.

@Gheb
It seems like you hold that almost everyone on my wagon is suspicious if I flip town (Ryker, Raz, Nickel, Lego, Gova regardless... that's pretty much everyone but Glyph). To be blunt, doesn't that raise the possibility that I just might be town? You have a good point about Raziek's reads (I overlooked that, actually), and I think we can at the very least agree that Nickel's jump onto me after doing NOTHING all game was horrible.

I mean, given what's he's done since, do you still think my Nickel vote qualifies as all that suspicious?

@Inferno
Actually, there may be time to turn this lynch around. I don't see anyone having a real objection to lynching Nickel (except wanting me dead more, in which case they're not likely to switch to anyone), so basically it comes down to how many people think it's a good idea to keep me alive so I can use my investigation. Gova's read on me is conflicted, Kantrip's obviously on my side here, and I'm hopeful that Gheb will see the benefits, that's 5/7 right there. If one of the inactives actually posts, that puts him to L-1, and then Ryker has to join so he doesn't lose his power.

I won't lie, my lynch is a lot more likely at this point, considering that you, Gheb, or Raziek could hammer me right now. But if you honestly think it's a good idea to keep me alive, there's no reason not to try. With the number of people that hate me right now it's not like today could end in a no-lynch anyway.

Why we should lynch Nickel:
> When Nickel voted me, he claimed to be completely caught up and to have read every post in the game, and yet he's done NOTHING scumhunting-wise. This means that all game he'll be an inactive question mark at best, while players like Red Ryu or Rajam at least might be useful once they catch up.
> Despite doing nothing all game, he happily jumped onto my wagon, with just about no reasoning of his own. That's almost the definition of a scummy wagon vote. For crying out loud, even if I were to flip scum, it'd look rather like a bus (joining the wagon late without reasoning). Is this guy someone that anybody wants in endgame under any circumstances? You'll have to kill him sooner or later, why not now?
> Gives me the chance to use my investigation, netting a clear at worst and perhaps a scum. (Also, we only need one person with a redirection ability to make sure scum can't role block me.)
> If Nickel does flip scum like I expect, then due to these circumstances it'll give us several connections. For instance, that would make me much less likely to be scum, and so anyone who was interested in my lynch and could have hammered me over Nickel like Gheb, Raziek, or Inferno will be nearly clear.
> What's the worst case scenario? He flips town, you guys lynch me the next day, it's not really that different from lynching me first. The only real drawback is that if I was scum I'd get to use one night ability.
> Enrages Ryker (What do you mean this isn't a good reason?)

 

[Inferno3044]

My problem is that someone can RB you. If we had someone able to guarantee a reflect or something to prevent a RB then I would be fine with keeping you alive.

 

[Nicholas1024]

But there is, Inferno. Level 1 Priest has reflect, which will stop any sort of redirect or role block used on me. Granted, mafia could still NK me, but that's that'd be like an extra lynch for town.

 

[Gova]

Gova, you willing to lynch Kantrip tomorrow?
How about you Raz?

It depends.

I don't see how I'm among the people that were just "agreeing" with Ryker's case. Nobody openly suspected Nich before I did [which goes back at like page 1 of this game] and a lot of Ryker's big case is based on what I said about Nich. Not to say he just parroted me but I don't see how anybody could possibly conclude that I just went on "agreeing" with him ... if anything I was agreeing with myself. Ryker himself I still find impossible to trust and I'm alarmed by how many people have him as obvtown read.

A lot of the rest sounds agreeable, especially the people to look into regardless of Nich's flip. Rajam belongs in that list too if vig doesn't kill him.

Yeah, that's why there's a qualifier saying that I'm going to look into them if they just agreed with Ryker's case AND have no independent reasoning of their own. Since you have this I guess it doesn't concern you. Not that it matters anyways because I'm still going check regardless.

 

[Inferno3044]

But there is, Inferno. Level 1 Priest has reflect, which will stop any sort of redirect or role block used on me. Granted, mafia could still NK me, but that's that'd be like an extra lynch for town.

My point was that we don't know who has that or if anyone even chose that.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Well, we only need one person to claim and use the appropriate ability. Or even just leave it unclaimed, in which case scum risks wasting an ability if they try to stop my investigation.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It seems like you hold that almost everyone on my wagon is suspicious if I flip town (Ryker, Raz, Nickel, Lego, Gova regardless... that's pretty much everyone but Glyph). To be blunt, doesn't that raise the possibility that I just might be town?

You'd have the flip town for that.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Your investigation is also only worth anything if you were to flip town D2. I think it's a futile effort.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Well, I need your vote to get anywhere here, Gheb, so either hammer me and end this or go along with my plan.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Stop pushing me, I'll hammer when I think the time right.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Mind if I ask what exactly you're waiting for? Because I honestly don't see what else needs to be said.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Raziek needs to go deeper on his scumreads.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Fair enough. Why not add Nickel to that list, since he claims to be caught up and has given fairly little in the way of scumhunting.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Everbody is free to do that but I'll get a read on Nickel soon enough if he starts posting more. I'd rather know about Raziek here and now.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Nich's reflect plan is still very unsound as the only way for it to be practical is to force a claim. Keep in mind that if a player is reflected an even number of times then nothing happens at all, and considering Priest is a pretty powerful power I would not be surprised to see several people picking it.

So unless we get someone to claim Priest (which guess what, is essentially like asking the doc to claim D1 for a one-shot cop) then there is way too many things that could go wrong. And on top of that, we don't know if Nich is telling the truth about his claim! If he's scum, then we're just giving him a night to use whatever power best benefits his faction and then doing his best to create havoc amongst the town.

Seriously, stop entertaining the idea that leaving him alive overnight for a very unlikely cop result is a reasonable course of action, especially considering his play.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Except it's only a half claim, and level 1 priest isn't so much a doctor as an inducer to prevent non-lethal actions. It's a decent enough role given the setup, but it's not super powerful or anything.

And honestly, I don't think you need to worry about me living by this point, Glyph. Gheb wants me dead, Raziek wants me dead, I'm at L-1, and neither are voting me yet. The only thing left for me to do is make sarcastic remarks and hope that you guys listen to Kantrip tomorrow.

 

[Rajam]

On my end i think it would be something scum would say, but from another POV i can see it being a "we should get rid of the weak links to strengthen town." kind of thing.
That said, i don't agree with lynching townies because they might not be the best becaus that actually helps scum more than town when it comes to wincons.(assuming mafia wincon is to get numerical parity or superiority over town), So im going to consider it something scummy.

scum-Glyph doesn't go with scum-NickelbackR0cks imo. Glyph took an early posture of killing dead-weight, and in this post Nickel takes an opposite posture in a very direct way, and without directly mentioning/quoting Glyph at all, which makes me think it's not distancing.

Also, at the same time this post puts me on the fence: Nickel didn't take any action against Glyph for previously doing what he said here he considers scummy

FoS: NickelbackR0cks

Nickel why didn't you vote Glyph here when he was attacking people for being useless?

 

[Rajam]

Orbo, this is what I want you to do;

Make a read list including every single player. If you have vibes, search specific posts where the vibes come from, include them. Explain your reads. I want no nulls, leans are allowed. If you TRULY feel you need to put a null there, I want you to say so and I'll ask you a read of them again later. I will question all your nulls though. All of them, so be ready to defend your opinion.
Also, add how valid your reads are. Strong reads, soft reads. All that sort of stuff.

This burden so early in the Day... produces a wifomy read around you regarding if you're trying to help (although by asking something obnoxious) or just produce fake content, and at the end, this is still just a burden more than a rational pressure/demand. I don't like it

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm going to be severely disappointed if he's alive tomorrow.

 

[Rajam]

#193... ugh, starting to think Nich (and sorta Gheb too) is just trying to stuck the game into circular, useless discussion about mafia theory. Not liking the direction he's giving to the game up to this point (#193)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Rajam telling us in post 710 he doesn't like post 193 because it gets us stuck into "circular, useless discussion".

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm going to be severely disappointed if he's alive tomorrow.

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I'm starting to sympathize with everyone wanting Rajam dead so badly.

Seriously, I can understand posting your thoughts as you go along, but at the current rate we'll reach endgame before Rajam's done with D1, and that's not really going to help town much. Prioritize and skim a little if you have to, but try and get through it all.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yet your goal is to lynch Nickel over Rajam, Seph, or RR?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Yep. Rajam's contributing, even if it is at a snail's pace, and Seph/RR will likely catch up at a later date. Nickel claims to be caught up, still hasn't contributed, and his jump onto my wagon was awful.

 

[Kantrip]

Busy with another game at the moment.

I'm not going to bend over backwards to change this against Ryker's influence. I don't have the time and I could be wrong about Nich. I'm basing all of my feelings with the defensiveness off of how I act and feel when I'm pressured. Nich is reading as cornered town who is playing really anti-town, which is something I experience right after RVS in every game I play.

I hold to the sentiment that Ryker's suspicion is genuine either way.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Raziek should post so stuff can start happening again

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yep. Rajam's contributing, even if it is at a snail's pace, and Seph/RR will likely catch up at a later date. Nickel claims to be caught up, still hasn't contributed, and his jump onto my wagon was awful.

Seph, likely to catch up? You realize who was replaced out to let you onto the FFIX scum team?

You're full of ****.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Seph, likely to catch up? You realize who was replaced out to let you onto the FFIX scum team?

You're full of ****.

It's like you're desperate to defend Nickel here. I wonder why. Seriously, there's at least three different holes in your logic here.

1. One inactive game does not make Seph the next Frozenflame.
2. There's a reason we have a replacement list, for people who can't catch up and play the game adequately. Even if Seph can't catch up and scum hunt, in that event his replacement could.
3. You never answered the point that Nickel's fully caught up (or claims to be) and still hasn't contributed, something none of the other players have duplicated (except arguably Raziek, who Gheb's currently grilling and he's contributed a decent amount more than Nickel anyway.)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

1.) One inactive game? When was the last game anyone here saw Seph complete? Raise your hand if you remember one.

2.) That has NEVER been your logical process.

3.) I don't give a **** that he's scummy. The thing is, you've picked him out for no reason when there's three or four inactives I'd kill over him.

Not to mention that your scum flip clears him.