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Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

#HBC | Ryker

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OKAY! Here we go on the merry-go-round.

THE GOAL:

There are 6 votes on Gheb and twelve players. The goal is to tie that vote and have both players die. If Orbo isn't wrong, then Gheb and Orbo die. If Orbo is wrong, then Gheb and I die. This is an eventuality that I have come to terms with and am PERFECTLY OKAY WITH!

THE HOW:

I need everyone who has not voted to vote to execute Gheb. This will tie the votes resulting in the death of both players. Either Gheb and myself or Gheb and Orbo.

THE WHY:

I've been analyzing the game with a Ruy flip in the forefront. This leads to a few interesting conclusions that I will get to in my analysis of the game coming later on tonight/this morning (I'm not sleeping). At the heart of it is a SvT scenario in Gheb vs. Legolas. They're both possible scum at this point and I don't see any possibility of them being scummates. The possible scum teams divide pretty neatly around them and it's imperative that I make goddamn sure that Gheb isn't slipping away with a Lego mislynch and riding the preconceived town reads that he has at the moment.

First, the notions that this analysis is based on. Take my word on it for now, the important thing is to make sure no vote gets cast before this info is out. You will have a detailed cheat sheet to the town, scum, and indy factions complete with reasoning after I make this post, so take for granted that these reads are followed up on, same as my Nich case.

Basic Playerlist Analysis:

1.) Raz

Town. He is DEFINITELY a Watcher. This leaves the analysis of his alignment. After the events of Day 2, it's definitely town.

2.) Lego

Scum possibility. WIFOM layer one on an RR scum flip says he's scum. That's a distinct chance. Gheb's flip, however would make sense and would clear him. He will be seen in the possible scum teams but never on Gheb's team.

3.) Ryker

Town. No explanation needed.

4.) Orbo

Possibly scum. Will show up in the possible scum team section. More on Orbo and his alignment later. Note that Orbo scum seems MUCH more likely with Gheb scum than with other scum teams.


5.) Inferno

Possibly scum. This guy strives to be null. He's going to show up in possible scum teams, but a reread is going to help me iron out which of those to eliminate.

6.) Kantplay

Not scum. I refuse to believe RR and Kantplay were that sold on bussing each other. RR almost certainly interfered somehow with Kantplay's night action.

7.) Gova

Not scum. I SINCERELY doubt that he's scum. It's not 100%, but it's enough that I am not putting him on scum teams. Big post will explain why.

8.) RR

Scum.

9.) Rajam

Not scum. Pushed RR hard. Is getting this silly fake message. Day 2 play has been acceptable.

10.) Sang

Possible scum. She's a long explanation, a really ****ing long explanation. In depth analysis will be shown in my next post.

11.) Glyph

Not scum. Possible indy. Scares the **** out of me.

12.) Gheb

Possible scum.

Let me tell you a story. After F&L, I asked EE for a game that he thought displayed him playing really well in LyLo. He recommended Bioware and I've read it cover to cover.

In Bioware, Gheb was scum. He got recruited by the mafia on N0. His team was ****, which is the case if Gheb is scum in this game. What he did in that game, was bus the hell out of his scummates and attempt to run the gauntlet. He managed to make it all the way to LyLo where EE reread and pieced it all together, there's a lot of parallels.

Myself, Lego, and Raz are the players that he wouldn't consider expendable on a team. All of us, I am certain, are not on Gheb's scum team. This means that the conditions are much the same.

Think with me about the scariest combination involving Gheb scum. Gheb, RR, and Orbo. Gheb pushes RR around as a tier two lynch choice behind multiple targets. Always has room for the lynch to go the other way which is exactly what he did with his Swiss/X1 scummate after night 2 of Bioware. Then he has Orbo claim here as a way to put me out of the game without having to put me out of the game seeing as I had claimed Tracker. Think that's farfetched? What is the first thing Gheb is known for in this game? Defending Orbo from two players. One has flipped town and one is almost certainly town.

That's the super scary one because he would WALK with that ****. And if he is BP or something as he has claimed, he's equipped to make it to LyLo even in the event of an indy.

Let's look at other Gheb scum points.

1. The quote where Gheb asks about lynching Orbo and Executing me is DISGUSTING. If anyone can explain a well thought out town motive behind that, I'll eat my foot.

2. Gheb is implying Dragoon. If that's the case and he has the jump ability, why the **** didn't he use it last night? Why didn't all the night actions targeting him fail? Was he slowed? No, he would've called out the players on his wagon, ESPECIALLY INFERNO'S HASTE CLAIM! He could simply have balls of steel, but that's extremely coincidental and scares me.

3. Lego. If you have Auto-Potion. You need to claim it now. You're voteblocked today and I'm not. I was in Gheb's hip pocket at the start of the phase and you and Raz are the two most valuable players after that and I know Gheb sells Raz short. It lines up REALLY well and would be Gheb's night kill target if he's scum.

4. This Execution ability that is almost certainly scum aligned makes a LOT more sense balance-wise if you have to put up a scummy in order to use it. Gheb is the only possible scummy in the game that would stand a chance of living vs. me.

Possible Scum Teams:

Gheb, Orbo, RR

Discussed above.

Gheb, Inferno, RR

Scumferno hasting Gheb makes sense. Especially if he targeted Xonar at night and hit the autopotion.

Those are the two most likely.

Gheb, Sang, RR and Gheb, Gova, RR are possible but I find it extremely unlikely and it would take a lot in a reread to make me consider it.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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EBWOP:
Rules of Execution said:
Should one of them not receive a majority by the end of the standard lynch (hammer), both will die.
My how section was wrong. We simply need no one else to vote for me. Xonar's voteblocked which means we're still good even through all this. Glad I double checked.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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The detailed analysis of play that's going to nail the scum teams is coming. Jesus, but I need a midnight deadline.
 

SangfroidWarrior

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I've been thinking while doing my homework and this is the conclusion I've come to: we need to find the re-director. Since nobody has claimed it, I'm almost certain it lays within the scum team. If RR doesn't have that ability, then somebody else might. I don't think Rajam would have but the possibility is there, especially since Kanty says he targeted Rajam.
 

SangfroidWarrior

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I have to go. I'll try to be back on within the next hour but school computers sometimes don't work in the morning. Also, I'm not really supposed to be on smashboards on school computers so if I get yelled at I won't be able to do anything else.

I won't execute anyone because I want to see what Ryker has planned out and I'm still not sold on Gheb scum. Just another person I'm gonna have to re-read.

Vote: Red Ryu
 

#HBC | Ryker

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The reflect ability is based on the spell from the same game. Yes.

Also, I doubt RR claimed a role interference role without targeting Kantrip last night.
 
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3. Lego. If you have Auto-Potion. You need to claim it now.
I have limited time, so I skimmed over. I wanted to keep this for tomorrow, but yes, we have Auto Potion. Do you understand now why I think the message we got is not from scum? They wouldn't kill us and send us a message. The messenger should essentially be cleared from Mafia suspicion, except if it's the indy that's doing the night kills :/ You get the idea, sorry for being unorganized here.

It doesn't click with me how me having auto pot would incriminate Gheb exactly, but I'm in a hurry, and this is essential.

Additionally, I have reason to believe we were roleblocked/some shenanigan. This makes sense with all the preventive abilities going around, kill+roleblock to ensure death.

I can full claim, but I'd rather not. It can be verified tomorrow and even more so if Rajam copies us, so I still think Rajam should copy us, and someone should haste us if they can. THIS CAN BE A PIVOTAL POINT FOR TOWNS WIN TOMORROW.

Xonar dips in 10 mins. Hit me if you can.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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I have limited time, so I skimmed over. I wanted to keep this for tomorrow, but yes, we have Auto Potion. Do you understand now why I think the message we got is not from scum? They wouldn't kill us and send us a message. The messenger should essentially be cleared from Mafia suspicion, except if it's the indy that's doing the night kills :/ You get the idea, sorry for being unorganized here.

It doesn't click with me how me having auto pot would incriminate Gheb exactly, but I'm in a hurry, and this is essential.

Additionally, I have reason to believe we were roleblocked/some shenanigan. This makes sense with all the preventive abilities going around, kill+roleblock to ensure death.

I can full claim, but I'd rather not. It can be verified tomorrow and even more so if Rajam copies us, so I still think Rajam should copy us, and someone should haste us if they can. THIS CAN BE A PIVOTAL POINT FOR TOWNS WIN TOMORROW.

Xonar dips in 10 mins. Hit me if you can.
I see Gheb pulling the trigger on you. I see most scum teams wanting to pull the trigger on Raz over a fairly scummy you.



Unvote

Yeah, Raz, post it. I'll be here at deadline for sure.
 

SangfroidWarrior

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The reflect ability is based on the spell from the same game. Yes.
If you're implying what I think you're implying then arguing that point will be opening a new can of worms that I don't have time to deal with. I can't exactly look it up on the wiki because it's blocked here for some reason.

The messenger should essentially be cleared from Mafia suspicion, except if it's the indy that's doing the night kills.
I have a theory about that but I wanna save it until toMorrow to see if it's actually true or not.

Lego said:
Additionally, I have reason to believe we were roleblocked/some shenanigan. This makes sense with all the preventive abilities going around, kill+roleblock to ensure death.
If I read correctly, if you are targeted during the night and are saved by auto-potion, you get both roleblocked and voteblocked. There may be nothing else to it.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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****. I've got to take my sister to school and my dad to work. I will be back in two hours. If anything rash has happened, so help me God, heads will roll.
 

~ Gheb ~

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I'm just responding to the points of why I might be scum in Ryker's case:

1. The quote where Gheb asks about lynching Orbo and Executing me is DISGUSTING. If anyone can explain a well thought out town motive behind that, I'll eat my foot.

2. Gheb is implying Dragoon. If that's the case and he has the jump ability, why the **** didn't he use it last night? Why didn't all the night actions targeting him fail? Was he slowed? No, he would've called out the players on his wagon, ESPECIALLY INFERNO'S HASTE CLAIM! He could simply have balls of steel, but that's extremely coincidental and scares me.

[...]

4. This Execution ability that is almost certainly scum aligned makes a LOT more sense balance-wise if you have to put up a scummy in order to use it. Gheb is the only possible scummy in the game that would stand a chance of living vs. me.
1.) Really? If you die, Orbo dies too. I'm town and am ****ing winning this game for us so it's clear that you're the one that needs to go here. And since Orbo is dying anyway we might as well lynch him to minimze casualties. Losing me is a bigger casualty than losing you + Orbo.
Orbo flip would also illuminate your theory on he being supposedly scum with me. There's absolutely nothing "DISGUSTING" or anti-town about it. It's just the most logical conclusion to be drawn currently.

2.) Too many assumptions. Never claimed Dragoon. Even if I did I never outright claimed to have or have not used jump N1. And even if I did that the only NA that is confirmed to have not failed is the watch, which could still happen even if I were to jump. There was nothing for me to call out because I wasn't notified of anything.

4.) So you think scum would be willing to risk my execution just to get you killed? That would be the most ******** plan I've ever heard of and it totally contradicts what you think I might be scum for. How the **** does it make sense to offer scumGheb for execution when the parallels drawn to bioware lead you to me setting my scummates up to get myself into a powerful lylo position? Like you've concluded, scumGheb busses the living **** out of his scumbuddies - why would I be the one set up to get executed? I'm not as full of myself as you are. I don't assume a priori that I'm not going to get executed anway. I'd take into consideration that it's very realistic to get killed in that situation and realize that it'd be exceedingly stupid to compete with you when I could set somebody up for a bus and look golden. If you really think that Gheb + Orb + Ryu is a likely scumteam you'd have no reason to believe that I of all people would be offered for the lynch.

Gheb, Sang, RR and Gheb, Gova, RR are possible but I find it extremely unlikely and it would take a lot in a reread to make me consider it.
So basically you have all your scumreads or possible scumbags as my buddy in some combination and RR is always part of it? That's just ******** as you're 100% banking on the hope that I might be scum. What are you doing when OS posts my town flip and Orbo dies alongside you due to him being martyr - both of you flipping town too? Then town is ****ed because all of the leads you've just pointed out have proven to be BS and we're back at zero with the player dead who's not only the most worthy of trust but also the most likely to actually figure the scumteam out.

We're not going the risky way and possibly throw away the game now just because of a whim of yours where you've drawn possible scumteams that connect me to like half of the game's roster. My town flip won't give you **** to work with because everybody will see what everybody knew all the time anyway: that I'm town.

We're lynching Ryu or Lego toDay [waiting for votecount] and we will execute you. If none of the 3 people that die toDay flip scum then Kantrip's the play for sure.

:059:
 

Rajam

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lol Vote Red Ruy





Die RR.
lmao!

ok, time to study:

In my notes I had the next disconnections of Red Ryu. Help me to evaluate if they had a decent chance of being distancing instead:


#21: Not a dancer
#191: =/= Ryker
#443, #444: =/= DtJ Glyphmoney
#451, #452, #453: =/= Kantrip
#891: =/= Gheb_01
#939, #940: =/= Kantrip
#959, #968: =/= DtJ Glyphmoney
#966: =/= (:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)

Also, put an eye on the next possible scumteams:

Gova / Orboknown / Red Ryu
Gova / Red Ryu / SangfroidWarrior
Inferno3044 / Orboknown / Red Ryu
Orboknown / Raziek / Red Ryu

kthanksbie
 

~ Gheb ~

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Seriously, you have pointed out four different teams I could be scum with ... you also mention six other people being possibly scum with me - half the game's roster. You have no ****ing plan and you wouldn't learn **** from my scum flip, which is never going to happen anyway.

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

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Rajam, you should link to these posts because I'm not digging through the whole thread just to confirm some of your disconnections. Some of your proposed teams look plausible though.

:059:
 

Orboknown

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To everyone in the game:
- Would you vote Red Ruy to be the lynch today if we must?
- Would you vote Inferno to be the lynch today if we must?
With less than 21 hours left, we need to see the support out there or else a Legolas lynch is likely, and we really only would support Kantrip if it's do or die. If you guys really want to stick to Kantrip, please say so, our slot really needs to know where the heads are at at the moment, as the two main wagons are both town to us (Lego and Kantrip).

Would like an answer from Gova, Raziek, Gheb, Ryker, Glyph, Rajam, Orbo, Sang, Red Ruy, Inferno.
Yes i would
Yes to both.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if we execute Ryker, Orbo is going to die in his place right? All the horrible English has me confused.
Yes.
Orbo, do me a favor are you CERTAIN that your ability will affect execution and not just lynch. Check with OS on ANY doubt you may have. This could go sour in a major way.
My ability is that i can choose any one person at any (day)point in the game. If that person is lynched/nkilled, i die in their place. will confirm with OS though to appease ya
 

Raziek

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How is he throwing the game away? Ryu is already nailed and he makes a fairly convincing case on you. .-.
 

Raziek

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1.) Really? If you die, Orbo dies too. I'm town and am ****ing winning this game for us so it's clear that you're the one that needs to go here. And since Orbo is dying anyway we might as well lynch him to minimze casualties. Losing me is a bigger casualty than losing you + Orbo.
Orbo flip would also illuminate your theory on he being supposedly scum with me. There's absolutely nothing "DISGUSTING" or anti-town about it. It's just the most logical conclusion to be drawn currently.
This is incorrect. If Ryker were to die, he wouldn't die. Orbo would die in his place. Ryker cannot under any circumstance die if Orbo is telling the truth.

It's either Orbo or Orbo and You, unless I'm mistaken.
2.) Too many assumptions. Never claimed Dragoon. Even if I did I never outright claimed to have or have not used jump N1. And even if I did that the only NA that is confirmed to have not failed is the watch, which could still happen even if I were to jump. There was nothing for me to call out because I wasn't notified of anything.
This is valid, but I'm having difficulty seeing how it's entirely relevant to him being wrong, aside from the fact that he made an incorrect assumption.
4.) So you think scum would be willing to risk my execution just to get you killed? That would be the most ******** plan I've ever heard of and it totally contradicts what you think I might be scum for. How the **** does it make sense to offer scumGheb for execution when the parallels drawn to bioware lead you to me setting my scummates up to get myself into a powerful lylo position? Like you've concluded, scumGheb busses the living **** out of his scumbuddies - why would I be the one set up to get executed? I'm not as full of myself as you are. I don't assume a priori that I'm not going to get executed anway. I'd take into consideration that it's very realistic to get killed in that situation and realize that it'd be exceedingly stupid to compete with you when I could set somebody up for a bus and look golden. If you really think that Gheb + Orb + Ryu is a likely scumteam you'd have no reason to believe that I of all people would be offered for the lynch.
You're basing this entire conjecture on the idea that this ability is a mafia one, and thus it wouldn't make sense for you to be a target.

I'm getting more of an idea that this makes sense as an Indy ability, since we've yet to see anything conclusive to say that "Scum can't kill normally, this must be a substitute." There's no reason to believe Scum has to make F&L style kills as opposed to regular ones.

So basically you have all your scumreads or possible scumbags as my buddy in some combination and RR is always part of it? That's just ******** as you're 100% banking on the hope that I might be scum. What are you doing when OS posts my town flip and Orbo dies alongside you due to him being martyr - both of you flipping town too? Then town is ****ed because all of the leads you've just pointed out have proven to be BS and we're back at zero with the player dead who's not only the most worthy of trust but also the most likely to actually figure the scumteam out.
RUY IS SCUM. Did you miss that? You're the one not reading, Gheb. Ruy is scum, Ryker SURVIVES, and the doomsday you're shouting about doesn't exist.
 

~ Gheb ~

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@ 1.) OK, I misunderstood that then. In either case, there's even less reason to execute anybody other than Ryker now if he doesn't even die in the process.

@ 4.) I took it as a mafia ability because that's what Ryker has pre-assumed in his theory.

@ last paragraph. lol @ me not reading at RR scum. I've pointed that out X times toDay.

If Ryker survives in the process that's even better although people tend to listen to him far more than they should. People seem to completely forget the fact that could easily be scum. Just because he gets loud about some theory first people decide that he can be trusted and it's OK to just let me die? I think it's easy to see why I'm a bit deseperate here regardless.

:059:
 
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