Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Katakiri]

This entire argument summed-up in 11 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVX8Ab6Gjhk

 

[noradseven]

We can prove this with math.
Time it takes to learn counter MK 1/0 days
Time it takes to learn to use MK 0/1 days

MK *****, if you can't beat em, MK em.

90% of all people who don't want him banned use him and wouldn't know what to do if they had to learn matchups

MK is tabuu in disguise, he is so godly he has thousands of pages of text written about his power.
His supporters don't want their almighty father to go
If MK gets banned, they will do whatever it takes to make people pay for the crime they have done.

put me in the 10%, I am literally better with link, ganon, and falcon than I am with MK

 

[The_Bear735]

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=29075

 

[Sosuke]

The truth is we all know how the MK poll is gonna end because sadly there are less decent players than lazy noobs.

1) This at least is the second time you've posted this.

2) What you said can be applied to both sides. It depends on your perspective.

 

[BSP]

We can prove this with math.
Time it takes to learn counter MK 1/0 days
Time it takes to learn to use MK 0/1 days

MK *****, if you can't beat em, MK em.

90% of all people who don't want him banned use him and wouldn't know what to do if they had to learn matchups

MK is tabuu in disguise, he is so godly he has thousands of pages of text written about his power.
His supporters don't want their almighty father to go
If MK gets banned, they will do whatever it takes to make people pay for the crime they have done.

You can't just pick mk and instantly win. Even though it is low, he still has a learning curve.

 

[a male platypus]

Marth will dominate with MK gone.

I voted keep him. Either play him or quit.

Welcome to fighting games.

Esca, since when has Smash EVER been just another fighting game? Just like the pro ban sides argument said... this is NOT Street Fighter 4. You can't base your decision to keep meta on the fact that this is a fighting game. You can compare things like Blazblue, Street Fighter, etc. and there is not a huge difference between the games. You compare Brawl to one of those games and...yeah

 

[Zip.]

I voted keep him. Either play him or quit.

Welcome to fighting games.

^ thisssssssssssss.

 

[Vyse]

Keep those reported posts coming guys

I'm glad I'm not somewhere important like at work.





Oh wait, I am at work

Just a gentle reminder, don't troll or flame.
Reported posts go to my email address, which makes me unhappy

 

[:mad:]

This thread aint entertaining anymore.

Truth be told, it was on it's way downhill once Bob started makin' jokes.\

I'm still anti.

 

[smashmachine]

read one page, new page of posts comes up

and notice how general discussion views have spike from 100ish to 400+

anyway...how many people are in the SBR? (apparently pro-ban gets at most 2-3 votes fron this...shouldn't be much)

 

[vato_break]

^ thisssssssssssss.

no dude =)

 

[BSP]

Marth will dominate with MK gone.

I voted keep him. Either play him or quit.

Welcome to fighting games.

I support this too. FIND A WAY AROUND IT.

 

[SnowballBob33]

Ever had problem with a matchup? Don't like those 60-40 odds? INTRODUCING.....METAKNIGHT!! Any time you are feeling down, just pick mk, and you have the ultimate backup. You can main whoever you like now, because any time you don't think you'll win, pick Mr. Meta. Hate fighting olimars? Who cares, we got metaknight. Dedede chaingrab getting on your nerves, we have a metaknight for that too. MK is your cure to all problems brawl related

 

[noradseven]

Esca, since when has Smash EVER been just another fighting game? Just like the pro ban sides argument said... this is NOT Street Fighter 4. You can't base your decision to keep meta on the fact that this is a fighting game. You can compare things like Blazblue, Street Fighter, etc. and there is not a huge difference between the games. You compare Brawl to one of those games and...yeah

no its just another game, did halo2 ban the BR cause it was too good, no everyone whored the **** out of that thing

 

[fkacyan]

K, we should have waited for Akuma to dominate U.S. tournaments then. Great idea.

Akuma and MK aren't even comparable. MK doesn't 100-0 99% of the cast. This is the worst possible argument for pro-ban to use, because MK is a perfect example of what Akuma ISN'T for legal play: he is clearly better, but not so disgustingly good that he renders all character other than himself completely nonviable right away.

Wait what? So we should just ignore the placings of an MK user in the top 8 even though he isnt a top level MK? Re word that it sounds odd.

Let alone he did use top level players as an example. Ally and M2k

Not what I said. My statement is that you cannot base an argument specifically upon the interactions of two top-level players. Especially if you consider that one has been dominant in the overall Smash scene for a very long time; the entire thing just reeks of 'statistically useless.'

Then counter it? If the argument has fallacies show it.
Otherwise why respond?

I meant that that paragraph merely contained elements of his others, as opposed to introducing a truly new point.

Again, one liners.
Really if you are not willing to debate do not post.

Stating that something is irrelevant because it's not addressed to the topic at hand isn't really something to debate; he was addressing a specific point in a post I can't see, so I can't really debate the validity of that argument at all.

Stop being stupid, if you had read his entire post, you would have understood that he mentioned DC, which is the extende cap, done by simply landing on the oundwith the cape. THis lets you stay in it longer. Its not capable of being banned and it lets MK escape several things that would harm him.

Read the entire thing.

And how viable is that technique? How often is it used? How often is it used in a game-breaking manner? Where is the evidence of this? I'm not going to argue theory, because it's effing useless.

Akuma was banned extremely quickly because top players could beat others with little to no effort if the other character wasn't Akuma, and they only had to use one or two moves. There was play-testing and actual evidence for the ban, as opposed to an assload of theory which is most of BOTH arguments' 'evidence.' All that matters is results, and MK has been trending downwards.

 

[goodoldganon]

Keep those reported posts coming guys

I'm glad I'm not somewhere important like at work.





Oh wait, I am at work

Just a gentle reminder, don't troll or flame.
Reported posts go to my email address, which makes me unhappy

That seems silly, why would you deliberately piss yourself off like that?

 

[SuSa]

Oh wow, he walked right into that one. Props.

I'll forgive him, I don't pick my wording carefully all the time either and make similar mistakes.

He either chose is wording horribly wrong, or he's Anti-Ban and for a reason besides his self. Which is possible. But does it really matter? If he's anti-ban it shouldn't matter. If he's pro ban he's a hypocrite.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

Truth be told, it was on it's way downhill once Bob started makin' jokes.\

I'm still anti.

Truth be told, it was on it's way downhill when the thread was made.

 

[Emperor Time]

Vyse changed his avatar to...not Vyse. The world is coming to an end.

I'm still glad to see that this vote is close. But I'm not too worried if pro-ban wins since this isn't the deciding factor.

 

[ShadowLink84]

It refutes the fact that his tournament results are growing, which shows the exact opposite of that.

Okay..

True. But as I've said earlier, they've had really close sets beforehand. And as I've said to other people, whether or not M2K himself won or not wouldn't have drastically, if at all changed the anti-ban vs. pro-ban debate. However, it's an example that with two top characters in a match-up that's slated by some to be clearly in MK's favor, the Snake won.

Because the two players are human. It is very possible for the human element to skew matchups., since as long as the player is god enough he can conquer any machup.

Yes I'm ignoring the player, but don't we always ignore the player variable when looking at tournament results and placings?

Atually we do.

Hence why we put the name of the player next to the character.

I doubt anyone has gone through the time to check the bracket and each match of it, to see the match-ups, the skill level of the players, how healthy or alert they were, how many stupid mistakes they made, how close the matches were, etc.

Indeed which is why using tournament results as a method of prpving matchups if faulty.

But I'm not arguing against MK dominating tournaments. He is the dominant and most used character in tournaments. My argument is specifically that his dominance is declining. Saying, "well he's still dominating tournaments," is ignoring my argument.

Good point.

Yes they do. But readabove about bracket and whatnot.

Which is why the argument about matchups cannot be supported by tournament results. Its too complicated to deal with.

To be expected from the best character in the game. There will always be a best option, or a dominating option. In MLG Melee days, you had Marth players taking the top spots of many of the events. To say that a character is broken or overpowered purely by the fact that they are the best placing character in tournaments isn't fair.

Except it is unanimously areed that Fox is the better character.
Yet why did we not see Fox players ******? Simply because the learning curve is too high for him.
Again the human factor brings in SOOO many implications that tournaments results can only really be used regarding centralization and not proving matchups.

And while it may not be a drastic decrease, it's still a decrease. And there still isn't evidence to suggest that he will increase in dominance.

I agree with this.

Yes, these are human players. I'm not suggesting that these wins say, "HAY LOOK THIS IS AN ADVANTAGEOUS MATCH-UP BECAUSE THIS GUY BEAT THIS GUY ONE TIME." However, when top players beat or go even with other top players, it does support match-up.

It can support it but is not solid evidence to prove the matcup. Maybe m2k was sick, had his spirit crushed etc etc.

It can support it, but ultimately, it cannot prove the argument.
Hence why Diddy vs MK is most likely not even.

Here's the thing; with air-camping and planking, we don't know that they're broken or overpowering. People are just assuming that they are, when they could or could not be. With IDC, you know that it can be used to stall the entire match once you have a percentage lead. With wall infinites, you know that one grab or attack sets up for death against the wall.

True. People do assume it broken, however, given the arguments as well as the support of when Plank, well planks, is it not justified?
Especially when several tournaments have banned the tactics (except air camping cause its camping and not stalling )

How much do we honestly know about air-camping and planking, and all character's options against it? Aside from some individuals maybe, not much. Banning it because we think it might be really bad in the future is bad.

I say we know enough. Primarily because Brawl's growth was incredible and has started to stagnate very quickly. So it is safe to argue that most characters can deal withplanking, jus not in a safe manner.

Okay, they've been arguing that the metagame will be overcentralized to MK. Replace those words with the metagame dying or whatever. Still the same thing: evidence shows otherwise.

No it doesn't. Saying that the metagame revolve around MK isnt the same as it dying. For it to die would mean that MK is the only usable character. He isnt the only viable character but certainly, he may be too dominant for allowance.

This IS controversial and difficult to discern if ban-worthy or not. "Wait for it to be a problem" wasn't the best word usage, but in this specific situation it works. As it's difficult to determine whether MK could be overpowering and how overpowering, and he isn't an overcentralizing problem now, waiting is the best option instead of pre-emptively banning.

True, this is actually my original argument too.

 

[noradseven]

Ever had problem with a matchup? Don't like those 60-40 odds? INTRODUCING.....METAKNIGHT!! Any time you are feeling down, just pick mk, and you have the ultimate backup. You can main whoever you like now, because any time you don't think you'll win, pick Mr. Meta. Hate fighting olimars? Who cares, we got metaknight. Dedede chaingrab getting on your nerves, we have a metaknight for that too. MK is your cure to all problems brawl related

sounds like you should main MK instead of playing fox and getting all butt hurt about it

 

[BSP]

Ever had problem with a matchup? Don't like those 60-40 odds? INTRODUCING.....METAKNIGHT!! Any time you are feeling down, just pick mk, and you have the ultimate backup. You can main whoever you like now, because any time you don't think you'll win, pick Mr. Meta. Hate fighting olimars? Who cares, we got metaknight. Dedede chaingrab getting on your nerves, we have a metaknight for that too. MK is your cure to all problems brawl related

But what if the other player is more skilled?

 

[Marthos]

Marth will dominate with MK gone.

I voted keep him. Either play him or quit.

Welcome to fighting games.

Amen .

 

[Remzi]

I first want to just tell Praxis and the others involved in the pro-ban post that it was VERY well done. Good stuff.


I honestly hate bringing all the technicalities into this.

With MK gone, we have a game that is more fun at a competitive level, why can't we just get rid of him?

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. By definition, the mother ****er is broken. There is absolutely no reason to main any character besides MK if you want to win. Everyone knows this. He is leagues better than the rest of the cast.

He will never have a true counter, or even a real even matchup as far as I'm concerned. For a character to be countered, he needs exploitable weaknesses. MK has none.

*EDIT: Anyone saying Marth will dominate with MK gone, I beg you to look at matchups.

Snake AND Dedede, two characters that are currently BETTER than Marth, have at least 60:40 advantages against him. Get that bull **** out of here.

 

[noradseven]

Marth will replace MK of course you want him gone.

But what if the other player is more skilled?

impossible he is the best player ever he just doesn't play MK thats why he doesn't win

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Anyway, I'm reading again so far, and the Anti-ban side's logic seems very flawed.

Functional definition for "broken": Character somehow ignores game mechanics, cannot be beaten, or has some random uncontrollable effect.

By that logic, Game & Watch's forward B, Peach's down B, and D3's side B should be banned because they have "some random uncontrollable effect".
LOL. Check your definition of Broken.

Metaknight is equipped with a combination of great attributes that when compared to certain character he stays within bounds while other traits such as infinites, weight, and projectiles are completely absent from his arsenal.

Metaknight's lightweight "weakness" is a non-issue due to momentum cancelling, and Meta's uair being very fast.

It is reckless to ban a character when the metagame, reflected through character techniques and tournament results, continues to grow and evolve.

It's evolving? When I made that happy first birthday brawl thread, I was disappointed in the fact that I didn't get a notable answer. All I got was replies along the lines of "people used to think Ike was cheap". Please cite examples of the game evolving between December and now.

Here is a list of results showing the progression of the metagame in each region: RESULTS

Your fly is open.
That's a list I can't seem to see almost as if it's in the Back Room.

In Smash 64, Pikachu was stated as being the best character having no counterpicks in regards to characters and stages. The game grew and flourished for many years.

Years later Brawl is released and a best character is announced: Metaknight. Possessing all of the same traits Pikachu had in 64 in terms of dominance, what makes anything different now?

A lot. The games have several key differences that shut down this argument entirely. Smash 64 had hitstun, shieldstun, and other things that allowed for combos and offensive play. Brawl does not have these, and the Brawl engine itself doesn't lend itself well to agressive play.
If you really think that this a good argument, you must not know as much as you think about Brawl.

Metaknight has been explored to the point where stalling has been a major issue with the character. However, the two primary methods of stalling already have solutions, and are no longer evidence for a ban. The IDC has already been formally banned and is no longer an issue. Planking is banned in some areas, but this problem is not specific to Metaknight. Even more specifically, the Dojo vs DEHF ruling from Genesis was not a situation with Metaknight, rather just a poor judgment call. Any basis that would further extend past the basic definition of a ban for a more specific criterion has no application to this debate.

Umm..... Did you even READ the pro-ban's paper? They have clear evidence that Meta can work around those bans. You also didn't address air planking/camping.

"Too good" is better defined by money winnings than frame data or other debatable things. Through-out April, May and June, Metaknight won 30.18% of all cash prizes from Brawl Singes events. Winning 3 of every 10 available dollars swiftly dismisses any claims of a character's dominance.

30.18% is still a lot for ONE CHARACTER in a game of THIRTY SIX. -_-

Addressing over-centralization, of the 570 observations from the chart of tournament placements above, only 123 of them are Metaknight. This means that roughly 22% of tournament placements are Metaknight, even at top level play where Metaknight is the most threatening. The game cannot revolve around beating a character that takes about 1/5th of the highest tournaments placements.

See my above post. That is a lot for one character in a game of 36.

Ease of use is entirely subjective and cannot be proven or disproved in any way. This is a silly argument that carries only emotional appeal and can't have any real impact on a final decision regarding a possible ban.

Sigh..... the reason we (the smash community) turned a blind eye to infinites previously is due to the fact that most of them are hard to pull off. This was stated by SamuraiPanda himself in an episode of SMYN.

For example, look up any variation on Melee Fox's shine infinites.

Anti-banners, you MUST have a better argument than this if you want to win this debate.

You have lost my vote.

tl:dr @anti-ban side: FAILURE

 

[urdailywater]

Ever had problem with a matchup? Don't like those 60-40 odds? INTRODUCING.....METAKNIGHT!! Any time you are feeling down, just pick mk, and you have the ultimate backup. You can main whoever you like now, because any time you don't think you'll win, pick Mr. Meta. Hate fighting olimars? Who cares, we got metaknight. Dedede chaingrab getting on your nerves, we have a metaknight for that too. MK is your cure to all problems brawl related

But tell me why I would main MK if he's bad against my bad matchups? Or there are just better choices out there?

 

[dextasmurf]

I bet everyone on this board knows the Meta knight match up with there character better then anyother character on the roster...and yet he still dominates the tourney scene.....something to think about

 

[WaterTails]

anyway...how many people are in the SBR? (apparently pro-ban gets at most 2-3 votes fron this...shouldn't be much)

I think there are between thirty and forty in the SBR-B, going by the stage vote tallies.

Also,

And isn't that what everyone who is voting yes is doing?

"Ban MK so we don't have to play as him to win and overall benefits us because we don't need to (1) Learn Meta Knight or (2) Learn the matchup (3) Stop maining a **** character who has no chance against ____ anyways"

SuSa: Greatest person ever?

 

[AtotheZ]

I voted pro-ban. Not simply because I "hate metaknight" because I don't, but he clearly is imbalanced.

If MK has approximately 1/5 of top 3 results, that means the rest of the 4/5ths is with THE OTHER 30+ CHARACTERS. That is a simply staggering figure. It might not seem bad, but hell, fox/sheik/marth/falco at least had to SHARE their top placings in melee, not have 22% each.

The point of Counterpicking in the anti-ban side was very faulty.

"In Smash 64, Pikachu was stated as being the best character having no counterpicks in regards to characters and stages. The game grew and flourished for many years."

Yeah, pikachu technically had no Counterpicks against him, but 6-7 other characters in a 12 character game had 0-deaths, JUST LIKE PIKACHU. In brawl, NO character has the ease of comboing, amazing recovery, high priority attacks, speed, damage racking, AND scarily fast kill moves ALL AT THE SAME TIME. The 2nd best character, snake, has SEVERAL glaring weaknesses. A major one being his off-stage game. Every time a snake is off the level, he will be getting hit at least one time by any good player, whether it be from a self-induced C4 explosion or people venturing out and hitting snake. Yes you can do the DJ-up-b which will get you a scarily good vertical boost, but then you come down as a helpless doll. You can just be grabbed and thrown back off, being put in the same disadvantageous position as before.

Also, still on the point of the counterpicking, if metaknight wins the first match of set, he will ALWAYS win the set if the players are on the same skill and the MK doens't mess up. Bans are supposed to help players get rid of their truly bad stage for their character in specific Matchups, or in general (pikachu's banning brinstar, IC banning RC) but with MK, you have SEVERAL bad stages that you need to ban, while only having one ban available. Yeah, winning the first match is SUPPOSED to give the player who won the advantage, but not an impassable wall that everybody else can't get past unless they get lucky (ie pikachu getting a low % thunder kill when frigate orpheon flips). Also, Metaknight has no bad level. He has some non-good levels, but they are still playable by every single standard. If he has a great recovery, great combo potential, great momentum cancelling, great maneuvarability and a great low% kill arsenal (d-smash, F-smash, nair, and aerial up-b can all kill below 150% in most situations) make NO stages bad for him. Sure, against some characters there may be one disadvantageous stage, but it is only a slight disadvantage anyway.

Also, the fact that MK has no bad matchups severely takes away from the Counterpicking process. Most players play 2 characters. A main, and a weakness killer. I know, as a pikachu player, that Donkey Kong basically covers every option and no matchup will be worse than 55:45 in my opponents favor. However, MK has no bad matchups. Simply by maining MK have you rid yourself of the need to have a secondary. With no bad stages/bad matchups, counterpicking is basically useless against him. Why change character when you are even/have the advantage against your opponent? Why change character when you are good on any level they can take you to? The answer is there is no reason, which is a BIG reason that Metaknight should be banned.

This x10000

 

[Fire!]

Started reading at page 47, now its page 54.


"An excellent recent example was Washington's monthly GameClucks tournament that occurred in June, during the weekend of Genesis. The top players travelled to California to attend Genesis, and when the tournament actually occurred, seven of the top eight players used Metaknight in their later matches (switching to him when their opponents did), and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in doubles were all double Metaknight teams. These results are unusually saturdated with Metaknights compared to average Washington results. What happened? As players lost matches, they switched to their Metaknight secondaries, allowing them to beat players at the same skill level, unless those players switched to Metaknight in return."

I was guilty of switching to Meta Knight in doubles and I was knocked out of Singles and Doubles by Meta Knight, including someone who does not usually play him.


*Casts vote.

 

[CyberGlitch]

I endorse a game that isn't over centralized.

Even if the anti-ban statistics show that tournament results aren't as dominant as the proban might imply, one might note that all of the other top characters mentioned are those that can put some fight up against Metaknight...so the game is over centralized. Bring back the counterpick.

 

[Katakiri]

*edit: Anyone Saying Marth Will Dominate With Mk Gone, I Beg You To Look At Matchups.

Snake And Dedede, Two Characters That Are Currently Better Than Marth, Have At Least 60:40 Advantages Against Him. Get That Bull **** Out Of Here.

Thank You!

 

[noradseven]

tru fact MK is one of the most played characters statistics say he will take many spots because of this, also he is the best farthur helping this...


As far as metagame evolution ZSS players now play nothing like we did in december we have done alot of changes to our game because ppl got used to our old tricks and we needed to get new ones, seriously we added a few ATs one of them I don't know how I played before we had it, and many other metagame changes, mostly involving approachs item usage, a few new block stun setups/traps, and a couple of new true combos.

 

[Praxis]

Pro-ban, ask me these questions:

Why now is a ban necessary? You've been using the same argument for a year, and the MK "problem" has only gotten better, yet people are still fussing on about how MK will only get worse, and he's dominating tournament results, etc.

Let's look at something.



This has been said since November, and since November, his overall tournament results have declined. While he still is in the lead for best results, they aren't nearly as bad as half a year ago. Look at the two most recent, most competitive, largest Brawl tournaments; Apex and Genesis. A lot of people said, "Let's wait for Apex!" It happened. One out of the top eight was a pure MK main I believe, with two or three others using him as a secondary in some matches. Ally, a Snake main, won Apex. Most people said, "Let's wait for Genesis!" 3 out of the top 8 were pure MK mains, no one else using him. Ally, a Snake, won Genesis.

Genesis results favored a MK ban. The top four was a Snake and three Metaknights. Only five top Metaknights were present at the event- M2K, Dojo, Tyrant, Judge, and DSF. DSF lost to other characters. Barring DSF, the other four were only taken out by each other and Ally. Judge was taken out by two other MKs before reaching the top eight!

Since no other Snake even made it to the top eight, this just proves that Ally is ridiculously good. No other player has ever demonstrated an ability to consistently beat top MKs. The top MKs lost to no one but him and themselves.

Further, all the EC players proclaimed to be "MK slayers" lost to WC Metaknights. Atomsk lost to Havok, Lain and ADHD to Tyrant.

And, as MK's nearest-to-even matchup, Snake himself is artificially inflated by MK's existance, as he removes all of Snake's bad matchups.

These results have a decent decline from other large tournaments such as hobo11 and CoT4 in the past, yet people are saying that MK's tournament results will only grow. They've shrunk. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that his tournament placings will get better.

I see no evidence of a continued decline. Have you been tracking SoCal results? MK dominance is increasing on WC and decreasing on EC. Considering that WC demolished EC at Genesis, it's hard to argue that it is because of the EC simply being better at the matchup.

First of all, what exactly is an even match-up? If you're really on-paper-picky, then even match-ups don't exist except for ditto matches (but even then, port priority). But realistically, an even match-up is just a match-up where it's very close, and the more skilled player will generally win. And the top players are pretty close in skill.

To say that MK has no even or close enough to even match-ups is hard, given the evidence. Ally, a Snake main, has gone back and forth with M2K, an MK main, as well as beating other top MKs. Lain, an Ice Climbers main, beat Dojo and M2K, both MK mains, at Apex. ADHD, a Diddy main, has beaten Dojo in an MM at Apex and come very close to beating both M2K and Tyrant in previous sets.

No one except Ally has remained CONSISTENT. Lain beat Dojo and M2K, then lost to M2K after M2K figured him out. Tyrant beat Lain on his first try. ADHD lost to Tyrant and Mew2King, and a MM doesn't matter, or we can cite Dojo beating Ally in a MM at Genesis.

If MK had a clear advantage on every one of his match-ups, why would things like this be happening?

No one is denying that MK has matchups that are only a slight advantage. But he is never at a disadvantage. Further, these are isolated events, and no one but Ally has remained consistent.

If you want to argue the match-up specifics of why I think that he has even MUs like Snake, ICs. and Diddy,

ICs are not even if the MK bans FD. Same for Diddy >_>

Snake can be argued, but MK has a lot of advantages on him and I feel it is 55-45 MK's favor (as do most top Snakes).


I'm too tired to reply to the rest right now when someone else already has. gotta get some chores done.

 

[Roxas M]

I first want to just tell Praxis and the others involved in the pro-ban post that it was VERY well done. Good stuff.


I honestly hate bringing all the technicalities into this.

With MK gone, we have a game that is more fun at a competitive level, why can't we just get rid of him?

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. By definition, the mother ****er is broken. There is absolutely no reason to main any character besides MK if you want to win. Everyone knows this. He is leagues better than the rest of the cast.

He will never have a true counter, or even a real even matchup as far as I'm concerned. For a character to be countered, he needs exploitable weaknesses. MK has none.

*EDIT: Anyone saying Marth will dominate with MK gone, I beg you to look at matchups.

Snake AND Dedede, two characters that are currently BETTER than Marth, have at least 60:40 advantages against him. Get that bull **** out of here.

thank you sooo much.
i'm tired of people being anti-ban just because they think marth will be the next mk.
marth has weaknesses that can be exploited.

 

[SnowballBob33]

how bout we just ban him for the rest of the year and see if anything changes?

or is it too long for mk users to go without seeing their precious

 

[RoK_the_Reaper]

Voting to Have Meta Knight Banned.

I use to play Brawl all the time, all day everyday, I loved it. But I kept dealing with ****ing Meta Knights, and there ridiculous match-ups and too good. They are broke in every sense of the word; hell, I traded in my Wii and Brawl cause I was tried of this.

Well now, I want it to come to a stop. Hopefully he's banned.

 

[Bob Money]

So I have to be good at this game like Ally, Fiction, DEHF , Sk92 to actually beat Metaknights?!
That's too hard...LET's BAN HIM INSTEAD!

You have to be exceptionally good to be able beat top Metaknights right? Am I wrong in this saying this?

I guess it would be cool to see different characters but...why? Is this ban for the sake of seeing more characters in finals? Or making the tournament turnouts bigger? Or fun?

 

[Famous]

Started reading at page 47, now its page 54.


"An excellent recent example was Washington's monthly GameClucks tournament that occurred in June, during the weekend of Genesis. The top players travelled to California to attend Genesis, and when the tournament actually occurred, seven of the top eight players used Metaknight in their later matches (switching to him when their opponents did), and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in doubles were all double Metaknight teams. These results are unusually saturdated with Metaknights compared to average Washington results. What happened? As players lost matches, they switched to their Metaknight secondaries, allowing them to beat players at the same skill level, unless those players switched to Metaknight in return."

I was guilty of switching to Meta Knight in doubles and I was knocked out of Singles and Doubles by Meta Knight, including someone who does not usually play him.


*Casts vote.

I just remembered...


-Boss and Famous watching RougePit's set at apex-
Famous- I wonder who is going to win
Boss-Idk...
-RougePit Pit gets 2 stocked-
Boss&Famous-Dayummm....
-RougePit chooses MK-
Boss-If all else fails, go MK....lmao
Famous-Lazy Biches....
Boss-lol

-RougePit wins 2nd and 3rd game with gay MK tactics-