Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[POKE40]

Even if the community votes to ban MK, I highly doubt the SBR will. which is good for all us anti ban people.

the ironic thing is that it's been like that for the last three community votes XD

 

[iRJi]

Wow, I didn't know this was a different character discussion lmfao. Where did all the MK talk go?

 

[Red Arremer]

Sorry, sarcasm doesn't work on the internet T.T

I do agree Wario has the best recovery and is very tough to gimp, I thought I was being funny, but oh well. I'm bad at jokes >.<.

A sarcasm tag or a smiley would've helped that.

 

[Palpi]

I'm pretty sure you can recover from bubble with bike,jump,up-b with wario.

 

[MorphedChaos]

A sarcasm tag or a smiley would've helped that.

Noted .

Hm.... Question, we made the Ledge grab rule because of MK's planking right? What would happen to that rule if MK is gone, since MK can still plank effectively and not reach the 50 ledge grab limit. (Also, it seems that new rules are mostly due to MK, the ledge grab one is an example I think.)

 

[POKE40]

Wow, I didn't know this was a different character discussion lmfao. Where did all the MK talk go?

discussing Wario >discussing MK

less flame in discussing wario

 

[lucha5]

Why Falco? and what do you mean Wario is "3/2" on the tier list?

sry i meant no pirtcular order. i mean wario no doubt is 3 or 2 in tier with or w/o mk
i 2nd wario/diddy

 

[UberMario]

Hm.... Question, we made the Ledge grab rule because of MK's planking right? What would happen to that rule if MK is gone, since MK can still plank effectively and not reach the 50 ledge grab limit. (Also, it seems that new rules are mostly due to MK, the ledge grab one is an example I think.)

Hmmm, this is news to me. Since when has there been a 50-ledge-grab limit?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

lol you guys really underestimate Snake's real potential.

This man speaks truth.

Anybody who thinks that Snake has a single bad match-up or even "gets *****" by any character is very, very, VERY wrong. Snake doesn't lose a single match-up and there are maybe 2 or 3 that are not in his favour.

PS: Don't ban MK. Snake is better

 

[Red Arremer]

Hm.... Question, we made the Ledge grab rule because of MK's planking right?

No, because of Meta Knight, Game & Watch and some others I forgot being able to ledgestall.

 

[Anth0ny]

. Snake doesn't lose a single match-up and there are maybe 2 or 3 that are not in his favour.

But yeah, Snake is pretty good. He's the main reason why I think MK's not gonna end up getting banned lol.

 

[lucha5]

This man speaks truth.

Anybody who thinks that Snake has a single bad match-up or even "gets *****" by any character is very, very, VERY wrong. Snake doesn't lose a single match-up and there are maybe 2 or 3 that are not in his favour.

PS: Don't ban MK. Snake is better

olimar owns us

 

[~ Gheb ~]

olimar owns us

 

[MorphedChaos]

No, because of Meta Knight, Game & Watch and some others I forgot being able to ledgestall.

Ah, so it was a combination, gotchya. Still though, MK can circumvent this rule pretty easily, so it doesn't really mean much to him.

 

[etecoon]

This man speaks truth.

Anybody who thinks that Snake has a single bad match-up or even "gets *****" by any character is very, very, VERY wrong. Snake doesn't lose a single match-up and there are maybe 2 or 3 that are not in his favour.

PS: Don't ban MK. Snake is better

the only people who say this are a few meta knight's like raven and inui that don't want their character banned, no snake players think he's better than meta knight, many snake's don't even think he's clearly better than wario. and even some strongly anti-ban MK mains won't even say this crap, M2K has said that he thinks like 5-6 characters are better than snake, and he's the one people accuse of sandbagging to keep his character legal but he won't exaggerate the second best characters strengths for the sake of helping his argument. snake is not on the same plane as meta knight. I don't really care if he gets banned or not, just, it's ridiculous what some people will say to help their side, maintain some objectivity.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

the only people who say this are a few meta knight's like raven and inui that don't want their character banned, no snake players think he's better than meta knight, many snake's don't even think he's clearly better than wario. and even some strongly anti-ban MK mains won't even say this crap, M2K has said that he thinks like 5-6 characters are better than snake, and he's the one people accuse of sandbagging to keep his character legal but he won't exaggerate the second best characters strengths for the sake of helping his argument. snake is not on the same plane as meta knight. I don't really care if he gets banned or not, just, it's ridiculous what some people will say to help their side, maintain some objectivity.

I don't even play MK, dude so it's not about "objectivity" or "helping my case".
I don't think Snake is #1 because I'm anti-ban. I'm anti-ban (partly) because I think Snake is #1.
Also what do I care about things M2K said ages ago? I'm sure he changed his mind by now lol.

Edit: Candy, top 3 Snake in the world DOES think Snake is #1. So much for your "no snake player thinks hes better than mk".

 

[etecoon]

I don't even play MK, dude.
I don't think Snake is #1 because I'm anti-ban. I'm anti-ban (partly) because I think Snake is #1.
Also what do I care what M2K said ages ago? I'm sure he changed his mind by now lol.

I never said you did...

I think Snake does do better against a lot of characters, but he still loses to Olimar, DDD, and MK, and goes even with DK, ROB, Pikachu, and Wario. That's not the same as "worst matchups are 55:45 advantage".

I just used him as an example of someone who clearly has a lot at stake in this issue that still won't exaggerate snake's strengths to save face, MK doesn't need to be worse than Snake or even that close to equal to Snake to be not ban worthy, he is clearly better than Snake but that alone can not make him broken, so I see it as a silly argument, why make Snake out to be so much better than he really is?

edit:

Edit: Candy, top 3 Snake in the world DOES think Snake is #1. So much for your "no snake player thinks hes better than mk".

when did he say this o_O I thought he was over confident in snake before but not that much o_O

 

[UltimaX]

That soccer gif is legendary.

 

[Rykoshet]

I stopped reading right here. IDC is banned, and regular cape sucks.

Doesn't stop people from using the move when it's convenient. You think it being banned causes people to not use it when it's convenient? You're kidding, right?

Not that it means anything, I just found this page interesting.

http://www.smashboards.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=242903

Top 10 Posters
Spadefox: NO
Thiocyanide: NO
Falconv1.0: NO
sasukebowser: YES
MarKO X: YES
Rykoshet: YES
ShadowLink84: NO
King Beef: YES
noradseven: NO
Melomaniacal: NO

I suppose you could attach a theory to that data. For instance, you could theoretically say Anti-Ban has the top three spots due to the fact they have actual non-subjective information to support their claims, and thus can post faster since they lack hesitation.

Regardless, it's fun info.

Even more fun since pro-ban is being destroyed. Good **** guys.

There are more posts from the anti-ban side because the top posting pro-ban posters came into the topic later, the **** sort of convoluted contrived bull**** conclusion were you trying to pass off here? What a ****ing joke.

i still dont see the point of banning mk i mean, even if u do ban him, nj/ny tourneys arent gonna keep him banned they'll just keep him alive for money and activity of the tourney lmao

They might, or they could roll with it for the sake of going to other bigger tournies out of region. We'd lose like 4-6 MK players in this region when it comes to NY tournies that are visited by NJ players and four of the ones that come to mind all already have a top or high tier secondary.

No, Snake is #2 because he's the second-best character. His matchups are very good throughout the whole cast, not only against Meta Knight - you're overexaggerating.

Uhm, no? lol. That's dumb, Snake wouldn't drop. Maybe a spot or so, but definitely not a "few". Snake is still one of the best - if not the best - character if Meta Knight gets banned, and his status as "Meta Knight counter" will not change that fact. That's just you being silly.

If you remove meta knight it's not as if snake is going to be like "HEY GOOD LOOKIN OUT TIME TO TAKE MY THRONE". As it stands meta knight does more to protect snake than he does to hurt him. There's a far higher likelihood that the characters that stand a chance or have an advantage against snake (and spoilers, there is quite a number of them) will run into and lose to a meta knight based on SHEER NUMBERS than the chance that theyll ever run into the very few snakes that make up any tournament. With MK gone, a rise in falcos and dededes or warios to put down the small rise in snakes would keep the character in check, and a 5 way stalemate would likely be established by snake, dedede, falco, marth, and diddy kong or wario or whatever (rock paper scissors lizard spock).

Meta knight does keep snake safe, you're out of your mind if you think otherwise. The numbers are too far in favor of that conclusion to think otherwise.

But Snake WOULDN'T be the best character in the game if meta was banned. He gets ***** by DDD. Falco and Wario can do well vs him too. I think the tier list would actually change if meta was banned, Snake would NOT be the best in the game tho.... at least in my opinion.

He'd be the best overall character in the game, his potential is far too great for him to drop, but he'd have counters. But those counters have counters, and those counters have counters.

Wario wouldn't be #1. I am just saying that now lol.

Wario would be a heavy contender for #1, snake would be better by design but wario's matchups would be as good if not better than snake's and he'd be a counter to snake. It's like how people have deluded themselves into thinking snake is an MK counter yet no one is dumb enough to take it the step further and go "Well if he's the second best and he beats the best character in the game then why isn't he #1...."

Just repeating this cause right now you talking about dumb **** anyways. theres a couple of nuggets in this. I'm done after this...

It didn't bear repeating, it wasn't worth saying in the first place. Your entire post is unintelligible crap.

RJ is correct. But seriously stop over hyping wario... again.

It's not hype, the character is good.

lol you guys really underestimate Snake's real potential.

I doubt people do but human reaction and inherent design flaw only takes that character so so far. A character's potential and the human capability to fully exploit that potential are slightly different.

Anybody who thinks that Snake has a single bad match-up or even "gets *****" by any character is very, very, VERY wrong. Snake doesn't lose a single match-up and there are maybe 2 or 3 that are not in his favour.

...

...

...

Seriously, why did you even bother.

 

[Master Raven]

the only people who say this are a few meta knight's like raven and inui that don't want their character banned

Hey, when did I state that because I didn't want MK banned?

I'm only saying that based on everyone's opinion on the tier list if MK were to be banned. I truly am skeptical that Snake still wouldn't be the best in an MK-free metagame. Him or Wario. Don't put words into my mouth.

 

[lucha5]

I never said you did...

I think Snake does do better against a lot of characters, but he still loses to Olimar, DDD, and MK, and goes even with DK, ROB, Pikachu, and Wario. That's not the same as "worst matchups are 55:45 advantage".

I just used him as an example of someone who clearly has a lot at stake in this issue that still won't exaggerate snake's strengths to save face, MK doesn't need to worse than Snake or even that close to equal to Snake to be not ban worthy, he is clearly better than Snake but that alone can not make him broken, so I see it as a silly argument, why make Snake out to be so much better than he really is?

edit:



when did he say this o_O I thought he was over confident in snake before but not that much o_O

snake only loses to olimar its 65-35 or 60-40 the most if there was half the amount of offline olimars as in online, Alot of snakes would be going losers or cping another char.
Including myself who sometimes goes mk and cp's frigate and d-tilts dat shorty

 

[Eddie G]

Get owned Meno.

<3

 

[etecoon]

Hey, when did I state that because I didn't want MK banned?

I'm only saying that based on everyone's opinion on the tier list if MK were to be banned. I truly am skeptical that Snake still wouldn't be the best in an MK-free metagame. Him or Wario. Don't put words into my mouth.

I was under the impression that you were, my apologies if I was wrong. I still think that it seems mostly like meta knight players think this, because snake has the best vs MK matchup, MK is not snake's worst matchup, I think snake is stronger for having MK around if anything.

 

[Omni]

For future reference, the Pro-ban side has never "won" in a public poll.

 

[Anarchyzoo41]

I vote no, because a good player at the game should be able to beat metaknight. I know I can.

 

[fkacyan]

yeah, because none of snake's game is based on tech chasing and timing either, OH WAIT

seriously I feel let down by the internet here because their is no facepalm pic that is adequate for how stupid this was

I'm talking about Snake at a very basic level here, not high level Snake. Maybe you should read my posts more? D3's game is based on dthrow and aerials, which require more timing than throwing out Snake's tilts (Or rather, in D3's case, he has to tech-chase characters that he can't chain-grab). I was speaking solely on the basis that the low-level MK-dependent would move to a characters whose basics were easy.

Get defensive only when I'm being insulting. @_@

 

[SOVAman]

For future reference, the Pro-ban side has never "won" in a public poll.

to explain thanks

 

[Master Raven]

Yeah I don't think Snake is THE best overall, but I also think a lot of people also undermine his actual potential and in an MK-free metagame him or Wario would compete for the best character. I also agree MK helps Snake where he remains.

I'm sorry if I came a little harsh in my post btw, I just don't like being accused of things I didn't mean to say in the first place. It also doesn't help that I'm a cranky mother****er when I wake up which I just did not too long ago.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I like it when ryko posts, he does Snake's Fsmash on terrible, faulty arguments.

TO be honest, the issue regarding MK has basically split the community half and half. So there realyi s no way that the SBR can get an opinion from the community, especially whent hey themselves are split on the issue (correct me if I am wrong).

I think t would have been better to open this topic in a later date, I do feel there isn't enough data to support either side efficiently.

If we keep track of the data from this year and the next following, it would certainly be helpful.

 

[Eddie G]

For future reference, the Pro-ban side has never "won" in a public poll.

Well the past numbers surely do show otherwise. I'm curious as to what you mean.

 

[etecoon]

snake only loses to olimar its 65-35 or 60-40 the most if there was half the amount of offline olimars as in online, Alot of snakes would be going losers or cping another char.
Including myself who sometimes goes mk and cp's frigate and d-tilts dat shorty

"only" 65:35? 65:35 is essentially unwinnable if your opponent is anywhere near as good as you, they don't have to be as good, just in the same neighborhood. It's probably not that bad though...

I have to retract what I said about DDD, I think it's been more like even and I think in the future snake will have the advantage on DDD, his tech chase options are mediocre and it could be potentially more devastating to him than the CG was to snake as snake players get better and better at it and better at camping/avoiding DDD when he could grab snake anyway, but Olimar isn't changing much I think, stupid spacemen >:/

this topic is restoring my snake self esteem o_O

 

[ShadowLink84]

Well the past numbers surely do show otherwise. I'm curious as to what you mean.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3177045

What the man in the suit said.

 

[brinboy789]

I vote no, because a good player at the game should be able to beat metaknight. I know I can.

A person with 4 posts is more knowledgeable then a person with 2000+ posts.

sigh.

 

[ShadowLink84]

A person with 4 posts is more knowledgeable then a person with 2000+ posts.

sigh.

Since i am finding this a more interesting way of answering such small replies.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3177050

 

[n88]

A person with 4 posts is more knowledgeable then a person with 2000+ posts.

sigh.

Post count =/= Experience. That guy is wrong, but it has nothing to do with his post count.

 

[FuRyOf1000SuNs]

If the SBR bans MK, I will have increased in skill ten-fold just because he's gone!

 

[AtotheZ]

pro ban vs anti ban seems to be near a 55:45 matchup almost even. It is just amazing on how split this community is. I just wish that people that actually go to tourneys would only vote instead of people on wifi swarming here from other sites or voting so people will play melee more and such.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

A person with 4 posts is more knowledgeable then a person with 2000+ posts.

sigh.

I agree with both of you, yet I said yes. Some characters are really lacking in their real metagame and a temporary ban could fix that.

I still respect everyone's vote, but their reason for yes/no should be logical.

 

[Palpi]

Some characters are really lacking in their real metagame and a temporary ban could fix that.

Please.... stop..

 

[Zolios]

Even though I'm Anti-ban, I'm would have him banned at smashfests mainly because apparently he takes the fun factor out. I would also put items in for the lulz.