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[Gates]

What's DDD's best move to cover this (predictable reverse shuttle loop on stage): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djmeU6fZQyU#t=3m46s

I think it's d-smash but just want to make sure.

Depends on how good you are at predicting. Dsmash, fsmash, ftilt, dtilt, Jethammer, Inhale, and Waddle Dee are all things that COULD work IF you predict it correctly and get the spacing and timing right. Ftilt would be the best move for certain since it comes out fastest for something of its range.

But why would they Shuttle Loop to the stage when they can grab the ledge instead?

 

[∫unk]

I dunno to avoid the ledge trap/it's a lagless hitbox so it's hard to punish and ppl are just dumb that's why that guy in the video did it in the first place it was SUPER predictable that's why I though u could d smash it. The only other option for him in that position is to grab the ledge with a normal shuttle loop or dimensional cape.

Only hard part is predicting on which jump mk is going to do it. That's why most ppl just get ready to shield there instead of intercepting with a laggy attack (d-smash).

 

[Commander_Beef]

Full hoping would not work because a falco's full hop is much larger than ours, so they can still be shootin lazers.
All you can do is either hold the edge and wait for an approach, or approach and powershield and ftilt when in range. Once you are there, in my opinion, you can corner the falco and take the win.

I have to be super technical here, so I shall do so. I do not mean fullhop camping them. I simply mean air camping them just by puffing over them sometimes. ****
I'll post more about the critique and the other posts here when I come back from vacation.

 

[Buuman]

Wrong.

JV means Junior Varsity which means almost Varsity.

A JV 3 stock is almost a 3 stock. Which just means you had 0% on that stock.

JV 1 stocking someone would mean you won while dead. :x

Making a joke on these boards in difficult these days huh? lol
Of course I know what a JV any stock is lol, I played melee competitively in high school since I was a freshmen. But yeah, I would call it a FF stock (flawless victory) It makes more sense

But yeah JV 3 stock for example is having 2 stocks left with 0% and finishing the match like that. Just to re verify

 

[CRASHiC]

I have to be super technical here, so I shall do so. I do not mean fullhop camping them. I simply mean air camping them just by puffing over them sometimes. ****
I'll post more about the critique and the other posts here when I come back from vacation.

Their horizontal air speed is greater than yours, and as you fall back down you are supceptable to chaingrabs. I couldn't recommend that against a falco.

 

[Tero.]

Making a joke on these boards in difficult these days huh? lol
Of course I know what a JV any stock is lol, I played melee competitively in high school since I was a freshmen. But yeah, I would call it a FF stock (flawless victory) It makes more sense

But yeah JV 3 stock for example is having 3 stocks left with 0% and finishing the match like that. Just to re verify

Actually a JV 3 stock is having 2 stocks left with 0%.
The name JV refers to the player (and SWF administrator) Jv3x3 (or MLG_JV).

 

[Buuman]

You are correct .tero. That's actually what I thought I put but man was that a typo on my part, now I look really dumb...but yeah that's what I meant to put. -_-

 

[o-Serin-o]

Haha. Okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Their horizontal air speed is greater than yours, and as you fall back down you are supceptable to chaingrabs. I couldn't recommend that against a falco.

You only believe this in not recommending it because I'm assuming you won't know what to do in this situation when you run out of jumps and fall back down. I don't need to say what we can do here because it seems logical.

Why does nobody post in the Critique Thread (dead as hell though >.>)

On that note, I think I will convert this to a questions/critique thread if you don't mind Serin. It will save us an extra sticky and it will be easier going to one thread since this can be a hybrid.
I'm sure you have a much bigger job to do here in the King Dedede boards.
Unless if the critques can be held in the "Dededee Broadcasting Corporation", I have no problem with that.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah either here or the video thread is good

 

[GreenFox]

Is U-throw into jet hammer a good option when they are about to land most people rarely ever see this coming in time to Air dodge. I don't play against pros but I could see how this could be useful

P.s I'm trying to find uses for his down b :?

 

[CRASHiC]

Depends if they have a safe move to hit you with. Against MK, they would just shuttle loop you, if they have no opition though, it could be, if you are lucky they will air doge, giving them slightly more landing lag, then allowing you to hammer em. I'd need to test it against actually tournament people.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Pretty much what Crashic said, it mainly depends on which character and that character's options in that situation.
And any jet hammer followup can only really be successful out of a mindgame because it is such a bad move due to its horrible lag.
I'll guarentee you that up throw to a jet hammer will hardly ever work against a pro in competitive play though.
The best use I've ever comprehended for the move is to fastfall it on your opponent while coming down to stage, and even that's a mindgame, which is an enormous risk.
Updating the original post now.

 

[o-Serin-o]

aka DONT DO IT!

 

[CRASHiC]

I seriously think you guys underestimate a good bsticked jet hammer. You tempt an aerial, bstick the jet hammer, it moves you out the way, then hits them right back. The question is, what matchup is this the practicle in? Personally, I find GnW and MK. I love Jetin the tornado, since we can't shield and punish the tornado anymore, since the hit then run away.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Yes exactly Serin, hehe. That made me chuckle so I'm adding that to the original post.
I understand what you mean Crashic about the wavebounced Jet Hammer, it has to be timed so difficultly though.

And if anybody has any sort of use for Jet Hammer (I'm assuming no other safe way.), please post it and I'll add it if it's seems like a good use.

 

[GreenFox]

So you guys have pretty much rendered jet hammer useless? I didn't think it'd work against pros I just wanted to see your guys opinions because depending on who you go against you can throw it in there but nobody expects the JH from a dedede specially at tournament level making this possible to use maybe? someone should test it on tournament people

Have you guys ever realized that even if you have tap jump off when in jet hammer it is still on?
Very strange.

 

[Gates]

Jet Hammer is a mindgame. It is good for occasional kills. Nothing more.

 

[GreenFox]

I'm not sure what a pivot grab is is it where you run past them and grab from behind or is it where your in front of them facing away from then and dash and grab?

Whats the purpose of it what good player will let you dash past them and then grab?

Im just curious of the exact definition of a pivot grab and its uses

Thanks.

 

[Gates]

A pivot is just where you turn around and grab at the same time. If you do it right, you'll be facing a different direction than you were before.

The first thing you said is the correct definition of a pivot grab out of a dash, but you can also do it standing.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I'm not sure what a pivot grab is is it where you run past them and grab from behind or is it where your in front of them facing away from then and dash and grab?

Whats the purpose of it what good player will let you dash past them and then grab?

Im just curious of the exact definition of a pivot grab and its uses

Thanks.

A pivot grab can be done of both methods that you mentioned in your first two lines.
This little number has a few purposes, one being that it has more grab range than a standing grab or a dash grab. Standing grab being in between and then dash grab having the least grab range. Use its excellent range to your advantage, as you know that our standing grab has broken enough range already in the game.

Another purpose of pivot grab is for a mindgame. An example of a mindgame would be that while your opponent is falling...you can make them think you're running the other way, but you'll pull out that pivot grab. It won't work all the time but it catches people off guard when they're not thinking about it. Don't do it too often.
It can also stop just about every approach in the game (including other dash grabs, dash attacks) if you're facing your opponent, dash backwards and pivot grab. All of this must be at the correct timing of course, which is difficult.
There are other uses for this that are usually just done our of thinking during a match, otherwise, there aren't anymore mentionable ones.

My definition of a pivot grab: Literally speaking... you're pivotting... a grab!! Not too hard. Thank you for asking at this thread lol.

 

[GreenFox]

Hmm ok so it's both I mentioned? I just didn't want to make sure I didn't misinterpret the meaning of it

I originally thought you had to run past the opponent and then grab from behind and I was like WTF how is this gonna work.

I wonder if theres a video of someone doing it alot so I can see it better in action thanks though.

 

[Technodeath]

i seem to pivot grab unintentionally a lot of the time im playing brawl.. when i go to grab i swing right around and miss.. it gets quite annoying, but i dont understand as to what im actually pressing when i do it, because i dont press the opposite direction before grabbing. it doesnt happen all of the time, just the odd time and generally when im chain grabbing >_>

are there any other possible things im doing wrong to be doing this?

 

[momochuu]

That size 6 font typo is bugging me to death. >_<

 

[∫unk]

how good is falling n-air? or is it almost always better to just airdodge to the ground (instead of the n-air)?

 

[o-Serin-o]

I actually use Nair alot. Most people find it useless, but I use it nonetheless.

 

[GreenFox]

I don't use his neutral air alot I use it more then f-air that thing cant hit for sheet.

 

[o-Serin-o]

o.o If you don't like using Fair, you need to gtfo and main someone else right now.

Fair is ****ing amazing.

 

[GreenFox]

I'll use neutral air and back air but all small characters f-air WILL NOT HIT AS MUCH AS THE OTHERS

On bigger characters its better though.

 

[o-Serin-o]

o.o Yes it will. Trust me dude. Fair is needed against anyone.

 

[GreenFox]

I've had bad experience with it IMO

In other words someone needs to make a guide to gimping every character off the ledge

It could add stuff like to FH OR SH to a back air OR what moves exactly to do stuff like dededes b-air canceling out falcos Side B stuff like this could help out alot

because one of the main good things about dedede is his air game and off stage gimping techniques WE NEED A GUIDE.

Just a thought.

 

[o-Serin-o]

o.o Uhm. I think we have one?

If not: -_- Mother****er. That means Seibrik/Co18/Atomsk (nvm Atomsk is never on..)/I have to do it...

 

[GreenFox]

I've searched for one I cant find it, I think it would help alot specially if someone had the time to go in depth about gimping each different character

I have problems with this except against characters I've practiced it alot I'm so used to short hopping but it seems like alot of times you need to FH

 

[o-Serin-o]

Well then I will make one later.

 

[GreenFox]

Alright thanks, Ill be on the lookout for it.

 

[Gates]

Serin, be nice.

GreenFox, fair is a very good move for killing (kills Mario at 130% on FD according to CO18's guide) and it has more or less the same range as uair with the advantage that it can't be SDI'd out of. Dthrowing or pummel breaking an opponent off the stage and then following up with a fair is a very good way to land a kill. As far as small characters go, it's not like the hitbox is small or anything so it really just comes down to the player's reaction speed, which could be high for any character.

CO18 talks about aerials in his guide but it's not terribly in-depth. If we are to write a guide on it, I suggest Serin do it since he's very active here and supposedly has an amazing air game, so he should know all about the properties of Dedede's aerials.

 

[o-Serin-o]

He said gimping game, not air game.

But regardless, we do need one. SamuraiPanda needs to upload the videos of him ****** me/sandbagging.

 

[Gates]

idk if Panda has a capture card. If he does he's never brought it to tourneys that I've seen.

 

[o-Serin-o]

I think he said he bought one. Not entirely sure. All I know is:

Bad day on wifi vs Panda = Bum****ed no lube.

Need to do guides = increased excuses not to do them.

Ego = Get yelled at and called a noob.

Being nice = not being treated nice.

 

[GreenFox]

^ you weren't being mean we were just discussing are differences on that move now mind you I don't think its useless I just would rather turn around for a b-air because forward air doesn't like to hit unless they are a little above you which messes me up. I've seen others use it quite effectively