"Hey! Watch out!" Link Video & Critique Thread

Rizen · Feb 2, 2011

Huggles828 · Feb 3, 2011

Haha, not sure I'm any good at critiquing stuff, but I'll give it a try. It's harder too because a lot of the times people play different on wifi.

First off, yeah, the SD sucks. You still could have recovered by delaying your upb, although it'd be all but impossible on wifi to time it right/react properly, etc. Although you were in dangerous positions around 1:05 and 1:25 offstage too. Some other things to keep in mind is you tend to throw the boomerang a lot when recovering; sometimes it's better to just keep falling straight down and pull out a bomb (not fastfalled, of course) when sent offstage; now you have a projectile that is harder to cancel out than boomerang, faster, and if it hits you in the blast you can DI it to aid recovery. When getting back onstage from the ledge, try playing bomb mindgames. Drop down off the ledge to bombpull. Don't be afraid to recover low or to stop recovering horizontally (or even move away from the ledge) for a second if it means getting past your opponent.

When you get hit vertically by Pikachu, try to DI so that you have horizontal movement to make dodging his downb easier. There were a couple times you got caught falling straight down and thunder got you, although I understand on wifi it's crazy hard to react in time to Pikachu's thunder due to lag (and the last KO on you dair to MC further complicating things).

You tend to camp while on the ground (just looking through the first minute or so you got in trouble with it at :07 and :23). Try using projectiles from short hops more; you can make your moves less punishable since you still have your momentum keep you moving to help with spacing.

In terms of spacing, I find dashing straight into shield oftentimes quite simply just a far better option than rolling as it's faster, you're protected at the end rather than being vulnerable mid-roll (due to having your shield up). Also, a good option if you absolutely have to escape your opponent being in your personal space is nair OoS; it's hard to use since you have to jump while shielding then let go of shield between jumping and hitting A so you don't zair, but I find it absolutely worth it. You can SH nair or FH nair and can try to float away even if they shield it.

At 1:50, you rolled into Pikachu, putting your spacing from getting up in a poor position right from the start, and I think you rolled behind Pikachu close behind him like that eariler in the match too. Rolling behind an opponent is an easy thing to do without thinking about it; try to limit the number of times you use it, since Link needs to keep his spacing.

I liked the use of fsmash 2 at 1:10 (although it didn't work out). Delay it a hair more whenever you use it; it makes people think you're done and pull out of shield. If they don't and they're where Pikachu was placed, it will push him onto the ledge, making it a safe move (although don't use fsmash 2 very much overall; if you use it occasionally though it puts your opponent into a defensive position; they know you have it and can punish if they let up their shield, making punishing fsmash 1 riskier if their punish for you missing fsmash 1 can't come before you can get off fsmash 2).

When you go airborne, you tend to gently float back down, especially after nairs and such. If you're not doing something in particular or hanging in the air to avoid landing lag from a move, try fastfalling more. It saves a couple frames here, a couple there, and helps maximize the time you spend doing something.

Hope this all helps, haha.

Rizen · Feb 6, 2011

Wifis galore!

^Thanks Hugglez

.
Wifis, Rizen vs:
G&W
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9rbqeTn-Ac

These I would like critiqued, they're both vs really good players. Thanks

.
Pit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHM2LuBfC-4
Kirby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS25IAwni8c

Ryos4 · Feb 7, 2011

Hmm Adm Pit. I was never able to connect with him over wifi. But are you sure that was him? I could have sworn he liked to play really flashy with his arrow loops and what not and he didnt attempt any.

Anyway, in general you used way too many smashes and didnt manage your spacing well. At one point around 1:40, you did okay with abusing zair and projectiles. While off stage you used your second jump way too early, your first 2 stocks were lost because of this. You also landing straight in front of him several times leaving you wide open. Pit is really good at racking up damage if you let him. You have to do your best to get away from him after you are hit off balance. Also in general you never want to be above Pit as Link.

Lets get to specifics:
(0:05-0:16) Pit was just trying to bait you, which you did avoid just running at him. However you didnt punish him enough for doing nothing. You should have thrown all 3 projectiles at him at once instead of just using arrows. Pit wasnt using arrows or mirror shield, perfect opportunity to rack up damage with Links projectiles.
(0:18) This is a good example of why it is never a good idea to bomb pull just standing around. Honestly i cant blame you since pit wasnt doing anything. But the fact is you should always cover your bomb pulls. A quick rang toss or retreating SH would have been a lot safer.
(0:20-0:22) After the initial Fthrow you should be smash DIing up and away. I'm pretty sure its possible to avoid at least the second hit of Pits Fsmash. Then you followed with a jump toward him, another mistake. This is exactly what a Pit player would want. He wants to keep you close so he can combo you. Granted it may not have been safe to just land after the fsmash. But if you were going to jump you should jump away. I understand the want to counter attack, but its best to regain your footing before attempting a counterattack if you have a choice.
(0:22-0:25) Accidentally blowing yourself up and then hitting with a Nair was a good move, and followed by jabs is a pretty solid strat. However, if pit blocked the first to jabs its better to cancel the jab, and retreat with a Zair. Though the fact that Pit turned around left Link a pretty big opening. You could have tried jab cancel to jab cancel. There isnt much Pit can do against someone when they are that far behind him besides retreat.
(0:26-0:27) After Pits Dair landed, you once again jumped toward him, leading to a Bair. Once again, escape before countering.
(0:29-0:35) After the Fthrow you jumped again and got hit by Fair and then Fair again then death. It would have been safer to just fall from the Fthrow then Zaired to the ledge. After the first Fair hit, you could have air dodged the second one and you probably would have survived since there's nothing Pit can do when hes above you but send you higher with Dair.
(0:43) The Fsmash was either badly timed or badly spaced. When they are on the ledge i tend to like to step back and spam with bombs, rang, and Zair. Especially since Pit was only at 28% and in no danger of dying regardless of you hit him with that Fsmash or not. At that very moment, Nair would have been a really good choice. Good job on the low recovery afterward.
(0:51-0:57) Bad time to Dsmash. With Pit landing behind you, better choices would have been Utilt, SH Nair, SH Bair, or just retreat. Being that close to Pit is dangerous. After the Dthrow you have a few options, to jump away if you suspect he will be waiting for you to airdodge and catch you when you land, air dodge if you think he is going to follow up. In general pits tend to follow up with Uair. Then directly afterward you jump into another Bair...
(1:00) Pit has his mirror shield up and you dash attack him... But im going to assume theres some button lag or something. But in an offline match you could dash grab, or if possible DAC, sliding past him and hit him from behind. Either way it wasn't a good choice of an approach. Could have used Zair or bomb pull while Pit sat in his shield.
(1:04-1:07) Good jump to avoid the Bair, weird time to Dair but it was a decent choice. Followed by Usmash, while it worked for you, Usmash has soo much ending lag that if he did manage to dodge it you would be in trouble. Could have use Utilt to be safer or use Nair or Bair to knock him into the wall and possibly combo off of it.
(1:10) Pits dreaded Utilt that comes out in like 2 frames or something fast like that and doing up to 16% damage while fresh but only really hitting on top of Pit. This is a good reason to never stand directly next to Pit regardless of being in front or behind.
(1:15) I'm also going to assume the jabs were from lag. But in any case after the first jab in a non laggy scenario, you could have canceled it with a crouch and went into Utilt catching Pit before he can Bair you.
(1:19) Accidental fast fall i assume, but its funny you got Pit with Uspecial stage spike. I also assume that the arrow knocked took away your jump. Or you just forgot you had it idk. Anyway a good bomb pull if you didnt fast fall afterward, could have saved you if Pit hit you again.
(1:27) Nice SDI out of the Fsmash, though it may have been accidental, good none the less.
(1:40-2:00) Good spacing, this is how you should have tried to play more of the match.
(1:48) Random Dsmash. lol.
(2:01) Punished for a bad double jump, but no real harm done since it was only an arrow.
(2:16) Dangerous landing that close to Pit charging a Dsmash. However followed by a good roll. Followed by 2 Fsmashes, little weird. Perfect placement for Pit when he countered. Only choice that would have been safer would be to retreat Zair and space out again.
(2:22) Good, take the arrow hit. If you air dodged, there is a good chance you would have died.
(2:31) Instead of Rang to charged arrow, could have used Rang to bomb pull to Rang to bomb throw, or SH Rang to Arrow to go for a arrow lock. Charging an arrow against pit is almost never a good idea as he could just raise his mirror shield and you would take an arrow to the face.

Overall, manage spacing better, manage your second jump better, and recover before countering. And play more like 1:40-2:00.

Also that kirby was super aggressive. only think you can do is space like crazy, avoid ending laggy moves like smashes, and spam kirby into a bad position.

Rizen · Feb 7, 2011

^He looped several arrows in other matches. Great critique, seriously. Thanks a lot; I'll study those points and work on them. Thanks again

!

I think that Kirby was Stridez, or some player with a close name.

Drigo Toes · Feb 7, 2011

vs Hades (the best chilean Lucas)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcRrBTUf0rY

It's a online game, but i think it was a good fight :3...
(The match is for the register, not specifically for criticism)

Huggles828 · Feb 7, 2011

Wow, nice match Drigo. You've gotten a lot better since the last video I saw of you. Keep doing work son!

#HBC | Red Ryu · Feb 8, 2011

I love you guys for doing things I've been forgetful of doing, like critiquing vids.

Rizen · Feb 8, 2011

Great match Drigo, way to survive high%s! Lucas' Usmash has a huge attack area

but you lived

.

Edit:
Can't sleep. I uploaded a wifi team match that's pretty good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibs-cU7pjRo

Ryos4 · Feb 8, 2011

Fun match Toes

I have to say its nice to see someone who loves Utilt almost as much as i do. That and the Rang to arrow, too bad the lucas is so good at teching.. I have to say i was surprised by the reverse double jump fast fail Fair (idk how else to refer to it). Interesting tactic that i might have to try some day.

Drigo Toes · Feb 8, 2011

Ryos4 said:
... I have to say i was surprised by the reverse double jump fast fall Fair (idk how else to refer to it). Interesting tactic that i might have to try some day.

Yep... I try every day i play a new way to attack or defend. That day i tried RDJFFF (for short xD), and it was very useful... but it has some points against:

1.- If the Oponnent do a roll or simply go to the Link's back at the moment when Link lands, you are totally open to an attack.

2.- Link has a terrible speed in the air, then your oponnent must be preassure you.

Because all of this, RDJFFF is a counter technic.

PD: Now i'm trying a snake gameplay with Link (make a wall of bomb, land with a bomb against my shield, etc.), and at least works fine against a very good G&W, and pour IC & Metaknight.

Ryos4 · Feb 8, 2011

Yeah its not something i would try all the time but it is an interesting mix up. I always see japanese links doing a double jump fast fall Fair and it looks really pointless. it seems okay for a kill attempt, but they use it so often its too stale to kill anyway, doesnt do much damage, and puts you at a huge risk since you waste your double jump.

But when used as a cross over it seems to have even more of a mindgame effect. You looked totally open, which is why Lucas attempted to attack and got smacked in the face. It also probably could be useful retreating tactic to help space. Sorta the way Ike can use Fair.

links24 · Feb 10, 2011

yo project m on my channel check it out also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHHw8yC79RU

some of the many link action imma put up

Rizen · Feb 10, 2011

links24 said:
yo project m on my channel check it out also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHHw8yC79RU

some of the many link action imma put up

Cool! What hack is that? What's project M?

Ryos4 · Feb 10, 2011

Its an attempt at making Brawl into Melee. Same game physics or something. Includes but not limited to one air dodge that allows for wave dashing, longer hit stun, higher gravity, and L canceling. Theres an article on AIB.

http://allisbrawl.com/news/newspost.aspx?id=1091

Ryos4 · Feb 10, 2011

Double Post...

Huggles828 · Feb 10, 2011

Brawl Minus is still better

Scabe · Feb 10, 2011

That match of Drigos was so good. Wish I could crossover like that.

Ryos4 · Feb 11, 2011

Yeah, Brawl Minus! The crazy man's answer to imbalance.

I honestly don't see what makes Melee a better game then Brawl.

It's "faster": And yet spot dodges, rolls and air dodges have much more lag to them then brawl, and the controls feel more chunky and sluggish to me.
Wave Dashing: Not only rather stupid, but many similar effects can be achieved in brawl.
More Hitstun: Just makes it easier to combo for those who aren't able to out think/predict their opponents.
Heavier Gravity: Allowing for more chain grabbing and what not which people already complain about in brawl. It also makes it harder to recover and less opportunities for offstage combat.
More Techical: Because apparently it is harder to SHFFL stuff then it is to idk juggle items mid battle.
More Balanced: Want balance, play Brawl Minus. "When everyone is super, no one will be." lol

And no im not looking for a flame war anything, just some explanation to why people like Melee better.

Maybe people say melee is better then brawl for the same reason people say FF7 is the best FF game. Because its popular to say that.

IYM! · Feb 11, 2011

melee was more balanced than brawl is Ryos

also brawl is easy, if you want be good, it ily take you some months of work, in melee, you have to leanr more and more, and the tecnical posibilities are endless

another good thin in melee favor is the no exixtence of the word "broken"

Fox, Sheik, marth, falco, and the others high tiers are too good, but in order to be good with those character you have to train hard

metaknight, Snake, Falco, diddy, are the best in brawl, but they are just too easy to dominate

also like a personal opinion i like more this Link, is simply better,faster and stronger

ah, also Ganondorf, i like main him

, is so strong

Rapax · Feb 12, 2011

IYM! said:
melee was more balanced than brawl is Ryos

also brawl is easy, if you want be good, it ily take you some months of work, in melee, you have to leanr more and more, and the tecnical posibilities are endless

another good thin in melee favor is the no exixtence of the word "broken"

Fox, Sheik, marth, falco, and the others high tiers are too good, but in order to be good with those character you have to train hard

metaknight, Snake, Falco, diddy, are the best in brawl, but they are just too easy to dominate

also like a personal opinion i like more this Link, is simply better,faster and stronger

ah, also Ganondorf, i like main him , is so strong

Normally I would ignore such posts, because there is no point in arguing about opinions, especially because it is way off-topic.

But you have no clue of Brawl, when you honestly think, that Snake, MK, Wario, DDD, Diddy, Falco and all the other high-tier-characters are "easy" to play.

It's in that manner just like Pokemon. Of course Mewtwo, Ho-oH, Lugia, Darkrai, etc. have way better stats than most others, thats why they are called "ubers". But a not well trained uber team will even lose to an UU/BL-Team if it was trained properly.

The same applies in Brawl. Of course MK has really good moves and can survive rather long due to his outstanding recovery. But even lowtiers can beat him, if the MK-player has no idea of what he is doing.

I agree, that not few characters were better in Melee than they are in Brawl (Ganondorf comes into mind^^). But I also agree with Ryos and the points he listed. I, personally, hate the extreme long hit-stun in Melee, it makes you just so immobile. Thus I rather play Brawl than Melee.

Considering the choice of charcters, there is not too much difference between Melee and Brawl. In Melee most people play Falco, Marth, Sheik, Fox (and some others like Peach, for instance) and in Brawl most people tend to play MK, Snake, Wario, etc.

Either way, the game gets reduced to a handful characters.

Sorry that I posted way off-topic >_>

Rizen · Feb 12, 2011

Rapax said:
The same applies in Brawl. Of course MK has really good moves and can survive rather long due to his outstanding recovery. But even lowtiers can beat him, if the MK-player has no idea of what he is doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYmj3rTY47o&feature=related

It's the ones who know what they're doing I have trouble with. Beating scrubs of any character is easy but I see your point.

Huggles828 · Feb 12, 2011

I think the problem is people compare Brawl and Melee and think of Brawl as trying to be an upgrade to Melee. It's the same series, but I think you need to just look at them as two completely different games, the same way I'd look at Soul Calibur 2 against Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat or something. If you're amazing at Soul Calibur, yeah, you're probably gonna be at least pretty good at Street Fighter. But maybe not.

From a purely competitive standpoint, Melee is better. Without Brawl's generous buffer system, it means there are things some people just aren't skilled enough to do, meaning the difference in skill between two players is much more greatly pronounced than in Brawl. Melee is a very aggressive game; it's much more difficult to camp and no powershielding makes playing purely defensively harder. Brawl is a game of precision, spacing properly, out-thinking your opponent, and forcing and taking advantage of opponents' miscues. Not to say these things are exclusive; heck, proper spacing and taking advantage of opponents' mistakes is vital in Melee too, or any fighting game for that matter. What is critical to be good at is different. They're different games.

Personally, I prefer Brawl a lot more and it feels more "natural" to me than Melee. That doesn't mean I don't think Melee is the superior competitive game. In the end, it's all about playing what you want to play. There's no point in playing either if you don't enjoy it (unless you're as good as M2K and can win lots of money in tourneys; then it might be worth playing even if you hate it, but I doubt that's all that common, haha).

And yes, MK and Snake and Diddy and Falco are teh gayz, but it requires lots of skill to be good as them. Same way with Falco and Fox and Jiggz in Melee. If you're wanting "pick up and win" characters, those honestly are probably Sheik and Captain Falcon in Melee and DeDeDe in Brawl in that you can learn them reasonably well in a short time and they're solid characters too (not to take anything away from mains of those characters. It takes lots of work to get to the next level with those characters too).

Also, I kinda suck at Link in Melee, haha. Dr. Mario main in Melee (I had to switch to Doc from Captain Falcon in honor of being accepted to Pharmacy School several years back, haha).

Ryos4 · Feb 12, 2011

Just curious what do you label as "skill"? Being able to push buttons fast?

Huggles828 · Feb 12, 2011

And with perfect timing. If Dedede were in Melee, with no buffer system, his chaingrab would be much more difficult to pull off as you would have to get the frames spot on to dash right at the first IASA and grab (ok, maybe not the best example but it should get the idea across). Yes, it's pushing buttons fast, but it's more akin to being able to powershield incredibly well than simply pushing buttons fast. You have to be able to control the speed. This means the ability to do it spot on is rewarded in Melee whereas in Brawl you can lean on a buffer system.

Being more technical or having excellent control is probably a better word for it.

LordXav1er · Feb 12, 2011

Hmm my vids have never been added here =/

Ryos4 · Feb 12, 2011

post some?

LordXav1er · Feb 12, 2011

How old can the vids be?

Huggles828 · Feb 12, 2011

Ehh, as long as they're not too old I'm sure they're fine. If it's from within the past year or so they should be fine. If you want them up I'll put them up.

LordXav1er · Feb 12, 2011

Rizen · Feb 13, 2011

^Nice spacing vs Vice, X. He owned me.

Huggles828 · Feb 13, 2011

OK, Xavier's should be up. Working on Rizen's now (sorry they're so overdue, haha. I've been tearing my hair out over classes the last several months; I'm gonna have to retake Medical Chemistry).

(2/07) Drigo Toes (Link) vs. Hades (Lucas)

(1/30) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (MK)
(1/30) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (Pikachu)
(1/29) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (Bowser)
(1/26) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (Game & Watch)
(1/26) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (Mario)
(1/26) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (MK)
(1/24) Rizen (Link) + ??? (MK) vs. ??? (MK) + ??? (DeDeDe)
(1/24) Rizen (Link) + ??? (MK) vs. ??? (MK) + ??? (Snake)
(1/09) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (MK)
(1/09) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (Snake)
(1/09) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (Snake)
(12/31) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (Mario)
(12/31) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (ZSS)
(12/21) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (MK)
(12/20) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (MK)
(12/18) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (Snake)
(12/16) Rizen (Link) vs. ??? (Pit)

Huggles828 · Feb 17, 2011

zOMGz, double poast! Got everything put up. Everything should be up to date as of now. Let me know if anything is missing.

Rizen · Feb 17, 2011

I need that name tag hack so I can remember who played those characters. I'm also afraid to hack my wii since it overheated and was sent in for repairs.

Ryos4 · Feb 17, 2011

Buy a separate one for hacking?

LordXav1er · Feb 17, 2011

2 sets of mine are not yellow =S

Huggles828 · Feb 17, 2011

Yeah, there were a couple I meant to ask you about because I couldn't find anywhere if they were wifi's or not. Haha, I take it they were. I'll fix it for you.

EDIT: Fixed. They were the ones against Unknown I think and X. Those were both wifis right?
DOUBLE EDIT: I see, you had a dividing line showing which ones were wifis. My bad.

LordXav1er · Feb 17, 2011

lol thanks

#HBC | Red Ryu · Feb 20, 2011

IYM! said:
melee was more balanced than brawl is Ryos

also brawl is easy, if you want be good, it ily take you some months of work, in melee, you have to leanr more and more, and the tecnical posibilities are endless

another good thin in melee favor is the no exixtence of the word "broken"

Fox, Sheik, marth, falco, and the others high tiers are too good, but in order to be good with those character you have to train hard

metaknight, Snake, Falco, diddy, are the best in brawl, but they are just too easy to dominate

also like a personal opinion i like more this Link, is simply better,faster and stronger

ah, also Ganondorf, i like main him , is so strong

Sheik and Jiggs are really easy to play in Melee and for Sheik she beats down low tiers really well without even needing the practice much in Melee.

Also without MK, I think Brawl is more balanced, imo.

IYM! · Feb 20, 2011

Red Ryu said:
Sheik and Jiggs are really easy to play in Melee and for Sheik she beats down low tiers really well without even needing the practice much in Melee.

Also without MK, I think Brawl is more balanced, imo.

i agree with you Red Ryu, Sheik and Jiggs are some easy to use, with a few days of practice, you gonna do it a lot of good things, but if you want go and play at the crealy high competitive level, or be really good with the character, you must train hard.

sheik is a character than is easy to pick, but we must know how to use her benefits and protect our flaws, if a character out cam me wth fast proyectiles (lasers for example) wich options have Sheik to evade it?

Jiggs have a good move set and a good air movilitie, but a simple mistaken can cost you one stock, or even a match. Learning how to use correctly the resttake one week or less, but learn how to combine it, when use it and find the timing fror each characters take a lot of time.

about MK...

well i am totaly agree, the game will be a lot balance, in fact, Brawl could be the more balanced smash game without MK, and with a better Ganondorf.

even Link, than is a bottom character, can defeat ZSS or OLimar with a inteligent playstyle.

But MK isnt the only unbalanced character

Ganon, Zelda, Link, Samus, Mario, Cfalcon, jigglypuff are, in general, bad, and others characters like Falco, Olimar,ZSS, G&W, pikachu, Diddy, are too much better

the worst part of this, is the fact than, if they are good is thanks infinites, lock set ups and Chain grab.

a King DDD can win a match only doing CG, IC can Grab you and dont let you go.
Diddy Kong can trap you with the bananas an play with you, Olimar can just pick up and trhow pikmins like if he dont have tomorrow, ZSS can paralize you and juggle you with her armor pices, and there are a lot of more examples

in melee, you can lock the oponent too, but is like 100 times more dificult than Brawl, and there are few infinites set ups

Wooow, my answere was longer than i thougt

"Hey! Watch out!" Link Video & Critique Thread

Smash Legend

Aimin' to Misbehave

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Journeyman

Aimin' to Misbehave

Red Fox Warrior

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Aimin' to Misbehave

Successful Businessman

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Legend

Aimin' to Misbehave

Smash Lord

Aimin' to Misbehave

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Aimin' to Misbehave

Smash Ace

Smash Legend

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Aimin' to Misbehave

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