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Hip Hop: The Poetic Side

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
2,512
Location
oakland
Link to original post: [drupal=3298]Real Hip Hop, Not that Pop Crap[/drupal]



Hip-Hop, Rap, & RnB Discussion




What happened to good hip-hop? People just think that the crap hip-pop out today is what hip-hop is... It's quite sad. Hip-Hop used to be poetry with a beat... Now it's all beats and no poetry, just how hard you go or how much money you have. Nas was right, Hip-Hop is dead.

There are a few gems out there like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, the Gift of Gab, Lupe Fiasco, Nas, Eminem, etc. who are still keeping it real. However, the list of good artists out there are quickly depleting.

When do you guys think that this happened? I know it was just a little after the 90's, but I'm not sure exactly when, as I wasn't into hip-hop, let alone music then.

There are only a few albums that I want to get this year, which is extremely sad. I wish I were born in the early 80's, so I could listen to great Hip-Hop artists in the 90's. After the golden age of hip hop, the music really lost its value...

Anyways, if you haven't heard real hip hop, listen to some of the following artists:



I was ignorant.

Now I'm not.

There's been a lot of hate toward people such as Gucci Mane, Soulja Boy, Wacka Flocka Flame, Cali Swag District, New Boyz, Lil Wayne, Drake, Young Money, etc.

Now, I don't like any of these artists. Actually I can't listen to any of them. But I heard that one of my favorite artists, Talib Kweli, did a song with Gucci Mane a while ago. So by nature I wanted to dismiss it as another artist that used to be great to turning pop. But I know that Talib is really smart, so I looked up what he had to say.

This is an exact quote from Talib, responding to a critic of the Gucci Mane / Talib Kweli song that had leaked:

"I have been working on my new album, Prisoner Of Conscious since the summer began. It is a title I have had floating in my head for quite some time, but it is even more relevant right now. Hip Hop is like bipartisan politics these days. Everyone chooses sides and argues for the sake of the argument, not to actually achieve any clarity.

I am a man and an artist of the people. When I say that, I do not just mean people I agree with, people who understand me or people I can relate to. I mean the people in the truest sense of the term. This philosophy, although professed by many intellectuals, is lost on them. They would rather judge the masses as a foolish body, greatly in need of their intellectual musings. Any public figure who attracts a crowd of people should be examined, and if they are smart about their business they are to be respected. Respect transcends personal taste, you can and often should respect your enemy.

Now I don't know Mychal Smith, but what I do know is he is a blogger that follows me on Twitter, and I guess my decision to record with Gucci Mane bothered him enough to blog about it, declaring my move a part of the demise of the conscious rapper.

I offer a different take. I say people like Mychal Smith are every bit as caught up in the flashing lights as the "ignorant" masses they like to judge. Instead of celebrating it, they get joy from speaking against it. They truly believe not liking Gucci Mane makes them intellectually superior to say, some chic down south. They pay so much attention to what they perceive to be negative, based on a limited world view, that they miss the positive, even when it's right in their face.

The week the Gucci/Kweli record leaked, I performed at the Lupus fundraiser for the J Dilla Foundation, and also recorded a PSA about SB 1070. I performed with the Roots, Blitz the Ambassador, Bajah and the Dry Eye Crew at Prospect Park for Okay Africa. My kids were with me. I also performed at the Duck Down 15th anniversary party, and I recorded a song about the Age of Enlightenment to help NYC high school kids pass the regents for Fresh Prep. These are not high paying gigs, this is for the love. And this is one week of work.

I haven't even counted the fact that my release with Hi Tek, Revolutions Per Minute a month ago as well as Eardrum and Liberation, my last two, were packed with "conscious" hip hop. Even outside of my music, my life is that of a conscious community driven man. Somehow, doing a song with Gucci Mane erases all of this in some people's minds. Who are they to judge me? What do they do in their lives that is conscious? If you ain't doing more than me; you just blogging, fall back.

I'd be willing to bet Mychal Smith did not purchase my latest album. I know for sure he did not take into account my musical output or who I am as a person when he wrote his blog. To people like him, I am simply a character, a one dimensional celebrity, who is supposed to conform to his idea of what good art is, not my own.

Now to break down the pseudo intellectualism on display"

"Then Talib Kweli does a song with Gucci Mane and I'm forced to reevaluate everything I believe."- MS

Mr. Smith, my choice to do a song with Gucci is my choice. It doesn't force you to reevaluate anything. If it does, you should re-examine what your beliefs are based on.

"After Kweli co-signed Slim Thug's idiotic comments...and his assertion that people don't like Drake simply because he's successful..."-MS

Mr. Smith, go back and read my feed. Stating my opinion is not co-signing anything. When Slim Thug said dudes will make it rain before they pay a mortgage, that was a valid point. My point was that his valid points were overlooked because of the generalizations. As far as Drake, I know a dope MC when I hear one. Whether it pertains to you or not, there are certainly people who hate him because he is forced down their throats on radio, who would have loved him had they discovered his mixtapes years ago, as I did. When he shouts out Slum Village and Little Brother in songs and raps honestly about the pitfalls of stardom, I look at that as a victory for conscious music, not a problem.

Also, the BMF song is banging, by the way.

Mr. Smith is correct when he talks about the pitfalls of labeling yourself the conscious artist. If you listen to my records, I tried to distance myself from that label very early in my career. I would often go on about the positive influence artists like Jay-Z and Diddy had on me when underground journalists would try to get me to co-sign their personal hate. He is also correct when he says no artist wants to be in a box. But his understanding stops there because his is the perspective of an outsider. It is much more complicated when you are in this business actually doing it for a living. Just because I don't like labels doesn't make my music or my output any less responsible, and neither does a song with Gucci Mane. My track record speaks for itself. My last video was Ballad Of The Black Gold...

Common is from the south side of Chicago, like Lupe. Common been pimpin in his rhymes since his first album. Lupe was a thug rapper before the Lupe we know today. I'm from Brooklyn, NY. My music reflects it all, Brownsville and Park Slope. In Mychal Smith's view, the fact that I recorded Papers Please for Arizona and did a song with Gucci means I'm trying to be everything to everyone. No fam, I'm just being me. I'm sorry it makes your head explode that I actually might enjoy Gucci's music, but I do. I didn't do it for money, I did it because I wanted to. He is a dynamic artist that is serving his fan base well. I love music enough to be curious as to what our collaboration would sound like, and he did too. I didn't compromise my style or views on the song, and as a musician, it was fun (remember that, fun?).

Gucci Mane's fans need to hear my music for sure, and some of my fans could use a little Gucci in their lives. I am down for all my people, even the Gucci fans. Deal with it. As far as those who say, "well, he raps about drugs," if you take Tylenol or drink, then stop judging. For those who say I shouldn't do a song with him because he hit a woman on You Tube, well, I know conscious rappers that have hit women. They just aint on You Tube with it. People make mistakes, that's his karma to deal with. I wouldn't want someone to not record with me based on some of the f---ed up things I've done in life.

Mychal Smith seems to love hip hop, and love our people. But sometimes we, as a people, can be so blinded by what we perceive to be negative, that we forget to support the positive. If you are dismayed by the state of music, spend more time supporting the artists who actually try to change it instead tearing them down. The music will change, and as you get older, mainstream music will make less sense to you. Take the audience an artist is speaking to into account before you judge them. You may not be in their audience. One love.

Talib Kweli
I'd like everyone to read that, and re-read it.

Now, the end is particularly interesting.

"sometimes we, as a people, can be so blinded by what we perceive to be negative, that we forget to support the positive. If you are dismayed by the state of music, spend more time supporting the artists who actually try to change it instead tearing them down. The music will change, and as you get older, mainstream music will make less sense to you. Take the audience an artist is speaking to into account before you judge them."

I tend to criticize the artists as well for their terrible lyrics, annoying beats, and seemingly zero effort put into making music. However, Talib opened my eyes as not only an artist myself, but as a lover of Hip-Hop as a culture and a music.

Why do we have to hate different genres of music than the one(s) we love? Hip-Hop is about acceptance.

For example. I am a white, 14 year old male living in the wonderful city of Oakland, CA. There's a lot of racial tension here. But it's beautiful when I see a man (who is black, for the record) wearing a Souls of Mischief shirt, and we can start a conversation about Hip-Hop. We need to stop hating the mainstream. If we don't accept it as a form of music, then we won't ever be recognized as a culture or a viable form of poetry or music, as opposed to more popular genres of music such as Pop, Soul, etc.

I am annoyed that our music is recognized only as ridiculous people talking over an annoying beat. If people saw hip-hop as a group of music with many sub-genre's, many with lyrics and emotion extremely intelligent and poetic, as well as heart-felt.

In my opinion, Hip-Hop is in a state of war, against itself. A civil war if you will. The group that cherishes the underground and clever lyricists hate the mainstream, and vice-versa. We need to accept each group into the culture.

I still feel that Hip-Hop has to change back to how it was in the 90's, but who knows if it will? Hip-Hop is a form of music that is poetic as well as self-expressive, and it should be presented as exactly that. We don't need this arguing over things as ridiculous as lyrics. It's music, and it's meant to be enjoyed, and we as a culture should enjoy what we enjoy.

For example, I listen to 99% Hip-Hop. The other 1% is dedicated to songs of other genres that I truly enjoy, such as a song I heard today called "Doin' Time" by Sublime. The beat on the song is something I would consider absolutely and unbelievably dope, and I'm sure fellow fans of Jazz and Soul would enjoy it as much as I do. For those of you who want to try something new, click this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d23f92AMzr8

The point is, there's so much hate in the world, why not move as a culture to make the world more peaceful, with love? Human beings as a whole are so inclined to hate, for no decent reason. Show a little love.

And to anyone who likes Drake or Lil Wayne or any of the aforementioned artists, that is your taste in music and if you love it, you should keep listening. I prefer underground artists, but who am I to judge? We all are different, we all have different tastes. To anyone who likes Pop, Rock, or any other genre that i detest, I'm sorry if I offended you. I will change the title of the thread to "Hip-Hop: The Poetic Side".



Stop the hate.
The list below are artists that I like. Feel free to suggest someone... except sorry, even though I respect that you may like Drake or Lil Wayne, I won't add anyone that I do not like or respect. You may disagree, well I'm sorry if you do.


Code:
J Dilla
Nujabes
DJ Premier
Big L
Wu-Tang Clan
Raekwon
Method Man
Ghostface Killah
GZA the Genius
Nas
DMX
Talib Kweli
Mos Def
Common
A Tribe Called Quest
De La Soul
2Pac
The Notorious B.I.G.
Rakim
Immortal Technique
Fat Boys
Gift of Gab
KRS-One
Ras Kass
Mobb Deep
Queen Latifah
Jean Grae
The Roots
Strong Arm Steady
Papoose
Keith Murray
The Pharcyde
Reflection Eternal
OutKast
Nefertiti
Naughty by Nature
Melle Mel
Grandmaster Flash
Crown City Rockers
Hieroglyphs
Atmosphere
OutKast
Gang Starr
Jedi Mind Tricks
Lupe Fiasco
Jeru the Damaja
Azeem
Del tha Funkee Homosapien
J-Live
The Fugees
LL Cool J
Jurassic 5
Q-Tip
The Roots
Mobb Deep
Ice-T
Nefertiti
NWA
Guru
Ice Cube
Big Punisher
Blak Madeen
Basic Vocab
Slaughterhouse
Murs
CYNE
Cormega
Little Brother
Souls of Mischief
Shad
Wildchild
Cassidy
MF Doom
Run-DMC
Public Enemy
Beastie Boys
UGK
Bone Thugs-n-Harmony
Jay-Z 
Aesop Rock
Common Market
Dynas
Thaione Davis
Krumb Snatcha
Big Tone
Termanology
Modill
Insight
Skyzoo
YU
Oddisee
The Coup
MF Grimm
MC Lyte
Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth
Black Star
Strong Arm Steady
Jean Grae
Sol Uprising
Eminem
I represent Oakland, California. For the record.
 

Anth0ny

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
4,061
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Lil Wayne's lyrics are catchy. He's pretty much the only modern rapper I can listen to.

Besides Drake. Gotta rep T-Dot son.

I've been on an Ice Cube kick lately. Blasting "Today was a good day" doesn't get old :laugh:
 

soju

SD God
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
Being a Scrub
You want poetry with a beat listen to some Cyne man

Oh and Lil Wayne just plain sucks compared to a lot of other artists, don't know why the hell people be listening to this modern crap just because it sounds a little catchy. XD
 

soju

SD God
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Messages
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Being a Scrub
Lol, well that's why all my friends tell me, but I try and not listen to him since his music is pretty ****ty XD
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
2,512
Location
oakland
I haven't listened to ALL of the good hip-hop...

Also, I need to add Redman. Oh and do I have Common?


Edit: Got them.

Sorry for everything that the list lacked... It was off the top of my head.

So, to the real hip-hop heads out there... How long do you guys listen to music a day? And who's your favorite rapper?


Mine is personally Eminem. He has insane flow, lyrics, storytelling, and beats (most of the time). I'm mostly interested in the lyrics in rap, so Eminem and other lyricists appeal to me.



EDIT 2: I simply must get this message across. Blak Madeen is a rap group that I have heard recently, and man can they flow. They have one album out, Sacred Defense, and barely anyone knows about it, which is sad. These guys are amazingly talented. I'm buying the album as soon as I get the money. Spread the word.
 

Mardyke

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
289
Location
Ireland
The only real exposure I've had to hip-hop is through YouTube by Emancipator and Nujabes, and boy were they among the best things to happen to me in recent years.

Hip hop is a beautiful world; it's just very, very hard to find.
 

SOVAman

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
5,313
Location
In VA **** MD
Put immortal technique on this list

edit: I just overlooked it errrrr. Really good list though

but you should add Blu & Exile
 

Noraa

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
1,106
Location
Laurel, Md
so many more to add

Blu
J.cole
Dom Kennedy
Binary Star
One Be Lo
Al Be Back
P.O.S
Little Brother
Phonte
Median
Oddisee
The Roots
Kenn Star
Foriegn Exchange (another group with phonte in it)
Aesop Rock
Murs
How is Jigga Man not up there...Jay Z (up to blueprint 2, or mybe black album)
Eminem (up will his 3rd album, but even that cd wasnt all that great)
Big L

I gotta get back to paying attention to class....check them out and add
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,115
Location
Chicago, IL
I listen to music almost all of the time when I am awake. I turn it on in my speakers when I get up, listen to my iPod whenever I can in class, and turn my speakers back on when I get home.

Also, Jay-Z should be on the list.
 

bleyva

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
511
i see no vanilla ice or insane clown posse. rascist.

just kidding, i hate rap music :3
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
2,512
Location
oakland
The only real exposure I've had to hip-hop is through YouTube by Emancipator and Nujabes, and boy were they among the best things to happen to me in recent years.

Hip hop is a beautiful world; it's just very, very hard to find.
Hip Hop is my life, dude. I listen 5 hours a day. I'm currently saving up for a Macbook Pro so I can record an album this Summer. Minimum wage is going to be a godsend.

I listen to music for days at a time.

My favorite rapper happens to be MF Doom. While my favorite duo would be Substantial and Nujabes.
Substantial is amazing, just found out about him yesterday. Amazing.

so many more to add

Blu
J.cole
Dom Kennedy
Binary Star
One Be Lo
Al Be Back
P.O.S
Little Brother
Phonte
Median
Oddisee
The Roots
Kenn Star
Foriegn Exchange (another group with phonte in it)
Aesop Rock
Murs
How is Jigga Man not up there...Jay Z (up to blueprint 2, or mybe black album)
Eminem (up will his 3rd album, but even that cd wasnt all that great)
Big L

I gotta get back to paying attention to class....check them out and add
Murs should be up there, same with The Roots. I'll check out the rest later.

Jay-Z isn't up there because he sold out. I have no respect for him anymore.

Where's the J-Dilla? :s
He's with Beyonce :3

Dirt Nasty is hilarious.
dude hes such a creep lol
but he reps oakland thats cool, i live in oakland too. best city ever

i see no vanilla ice or insane clown posse. rascist.

just kidding, i hate rap music :3
I'm white. And my favorite rapper is Eminem.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It's good that people finally realize the fact that Hip-Hop is a bad genre, period. Not trying to sound like a troll, but I've always hated Hip-Hop. Beside, most of them are curse-filled, especially ones that my brother has.

Give me links to good hip-hop musics that doesn't have cursing.
 

soju

SD God
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
1,186
Location
Being a Scrub
It's good that people finally realize the fact that Hip-Hop is a bad genre, period. Not trying to sound like a troll, but I've always hated Hip-Hop. Beside, most of them are curse-filled, especially ones that my brother has.

Give me links to good hip-hop musics that doesn't have cursing.
Lol, tell me which other genres that aren't cursed filled. . . *ok hip-hop may have the most. . . =3
you can't say hip-hop is a bad genre since music is based on people's opinions
see I don't really like metal and I think its all nonsense but I'm not saying it's a bad
genre of music(even though it has some pretty cool guitar riffs) so. . . yea just try and be a little more open minded :3

oh and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrMrqBcv6Mk
im pretty sure no cursing in there =w=
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,115
Location
Chicago, IL
How so? If there's nothing wrong with it, then why did you use cursing a reason why rap is bad?

Don't come in here if you're just going to say rap sucks. If that's your opinion, why come in here in the first place?
 
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