How to play Brawl, and a guide to understanding the metagame: UPDATED 10/18

[humble]

Seeing as there is a built-in, universal unit of measurement regarding hitbox size, and 10 of those is about the size of one jigglypuff... We should use either said unit, or jiggs.

Excellent, now we just need to get someone to make a thread measuring everyones distance/time in movement, and get people to measure each attacks hitbox sizes. I mean, for the tactical boards, such data would be both pertinent to the metagame and redefine a lot of how we understand this game. So far we only have frame data, essentially only temporal data, and we should complement it with spatial data.

 

[Pierce7d]

Let the Smash Lab handle it. If you want in on helping, apply to become a researcher.

 

[Lore]

Great read, and I can't wait to see the rest.

I'm definitely going to use this stuff.

 

[Remzi]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234477

I thought of doing something like that a long time ago, and I think DJBrowny really had the right idea but it'd still be ridiculously hard.

 

[humble]

Actually a proper method could be devised using hacks. For example a stage texture could be made with a standard distance on it, hitboxes can be studied to see which bones they are attached to, you can apply custom animations where there is no movement for a reliable base to hit, etc.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I disagree. I prefer to play Zelda with offensive reads. Her dash attack is her best tool, and she has devastating kill power. Attempting to read your opponent to death has been the most effective strategy for me with Zelda.

I think we are describing the same thing actually, sorry if i am unclear. For i am offensive with zelda too, im just saying shield dashing is her best approach because most if not all of her other things can be shielded. She needs to use her great OoS options/defensive tools, such as upsmash, dsmash, dtilt, NL, etc. up close, which is what shield dashing gives to her, the ability to get close.

 

[Reg15]

Sheild dash serves as a good approach to alot of characters in my opinion.

 

[etecoon]

jigglypuff as a unit of measurement is amazing

this hitbox is 1.4 jiggs

 

[Ray Robo]

Now reading this I realize that the metagame of brawl revolves around "The Sheilding Sheild" if I got the right idea of it. Some characters approach it,some counter, some do both. I'm starting to understand the metagame better now and getting a deeper understanding the way the game works. Thanks again Pierce. *Subscribes to thread*

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Actually, the standard unit of Smash measurement (in Brawl, at least), is about 1/20 of a stage builder block.

 

[Blacknight99923]

that makes sense to be honest because marths tipper fsmash is like exactly on something on the stage builder blocks

 

[Turbo Ether]

Shield approaching will be a dominant tactic in this game.

Ye olde post.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

Emblem Lord wins the thread.

(Good job Turbo for digging that up)

 

[6Mizu]

Amazing read. Keep it up.
Pierced I have a question:
This isn't gonna be one of those threads that's amazing, but than "the owner get lazy and stops working on it" kind of threads right?

 

[Ray Robo]

Amazing read. Keep it up.
Pierced I have a question:
This isn't gonna be one of those threads that's amazing, but than "the owner get lazy and stops working on it" kind of threads right?

This. These threads get alot of hype for like a month than the owner just stops adding and even visiting the thread. I've seen this alot and hope it doesn't happen to this thread which I doubt since I think I can trust Pierce. Also I'm trying to think positive since I really wanna improve for offline tournaments and think this metagame guide will help. ;o

 

[Pierce7d]

Amazing read. Keep it up.
Pierced I have a question:
This isn't gonna be one of those threads that's amazing, but than "the owner get lazy and stops working on it" kind of threads right?

First off, it's just Pierce if you please.

Secondly, this thread won't turn out like that. When my time frees up in a few weeks, you'll see that effort pouring into this thread.

 

[Orion*]

you know a game is bad when the standard approach is a block

 

[Supreme Dirt]

This isn't going to be one of those threads which sort of looks at Ganondorf and fancily says to pick another character, is it? I mean, we are part of the metagame too, and it irritates me when people act as though we're not.

 

[etecoon]

This isn't going to be one of those threads which sort of looks at Ganondorf and fancily says to pick another character, is it? I mean, we are part of the metagame too, and it irritates me when people act as though we're not.

LOLOLOLten

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Dirt, Ganon is the absence of the metagame.

 

[Pierce7d]

This isn't going to be one of those threads which sort of looks at Ganondorf and fancily says to pick another character, is it? I mean, we are part of the metagame too, and it irritates me when people act as though we're not.

First of all, you are a player, not a character, so by saying "we are part of the metagame too" then I'm going to assume you're talking about Ganondorf players.

Secondly, I'm not going to "act" like anything. I'm also not going to use fancy words. I have absolutely no problem with being straight up.

Ganondorf is not a viable character for competitive play.

Ganondorf players are very few. Most people do not delude themselves, and realize that even if they were to reach their potential tomorrow, they still have very little to no chance of defeating top players who use viable characters. Ganondorf will likely not be used in any of my examples, because he is unrealistic to face in tournament, and you have yet to master the basics, if you're still losing to Ganondorf.

Ganon is not a useless character. I use him to teach good habits to my apprentices, or fool around and embarrass my friends, or have fun when playing amongst casuals. However, this does not validate his usage in a serious tournament set if you claim to have the intention of winning, or progressing as far as possible with your skill level as a PLAYER.

The character Ganondorf is irrelevant to the metagame. Perhaps no one told you this before, but I have just now, so you have no further excuses. Please continue to use a garbage tier character at your own risk and discretion.

That being said, many of the things in these articles will be applicable to all players and most characters, often including Ganondorf. If you choose to continue maining Ganon, you will yet still find useful information in this thread. But if you're looking for a secret guide to winning with a character who has no business beating people who know what they're doing, and using characters capable of defeating other good characters, then this is not the place for you.

Ganondorf is not part of the metagame (offline, I don't know how he plays online). No good player in their right mind would select Ganondorf if the result mattered to them, against another good player in a tournament set. Statistically, this has shown to be true as well. In fact, I doubt you can even bring me one example of a serious tournament set, where a truly good and known player, lost to a Ganondorf.

 

[sainted_kai909]

First of all, you are a player, not a character, so by saying "we are part of the metagame too" then I'm going to assume you're talking about Ganondorf players.

Secondly, I'm not going to "act" like anything. I'm also not going to use fancy words. I have absolutely no problem with being straight up.

Ganondorf is not a viable character for competitive play.

Ganondorf players are very few. Most people do not delude themselves, and realize that even if they were to reach their potential tomorrow, they still have very little to no chance of defeating top players who use viable characters. Ganondorf will likely not be used in any of my examples, because he is unrealistic to face in tournament, and you have yet to master the basics, if you're still losing to Ganondorf.

Ganon is not a useless character. I use him to teach good habits to my apprentices, or fool around and embarrass my friends, or have fun when playing amongst casuals. However, this does not validate his usage in a serious tournament set if you claim to have the intention of winning, or progressing as far as possible with your skill level as a PLAYER.

The character Ganondorf is irrelevant to the metagame. Perhaps no one told you this before, but I have just now, so you have no further excuses. Please continue to use a garbage tier character at your own risk and discretion.

That being said, many of the things in these articles will be applicable to all players and most characters, often including Ganondorf. If you choose to continue maining Ganon, you will yet still find useful information in this thread. But if you're looking for a secret guide to winning with a character who has no business beating people who know what they're doing, and using characters capable of defeating other good characters, then this is not the place for you.

Ganondorf is not part of the metagame (offline, I don't know how he plays online). No good player in their right mind would select Ganondorf if the result mattered to them, against another good player in a tournament set. Statistically, this has shown to be true as well. In fact, I doubt you can even bring me one example of a serious tournament set, where a truly good and known player, lost to a Ganondorf.

Lol, Ganondorf < logic.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Actually a proper method could be devised using hacks. For example a stage texture could be made with a standard distance on it, hitboxes can be studied to see which bones they are attached to, you can apply custom animations where there is no movement for a reliable base to hit, etc.

Indeed. And seeing as we have the hacks to determine the exact length in time and distance of every animation, hitbox, et cetera...

First off, it's just Pierce if you please.

Secondly, this thread won't turn out like that. When my time frees up in a few weeks, you'll see that effort pouring into this thread.

Whee! I regretted the fate that happened to the gay thread, and pray that this one doesn't go the same way (CURSE YOU DMG).

 

[Kitamerby]

Fundaman beat Ally's captain falcon in tournament iirc.

 

[6Mizu]

First off, it's just Pierce if you please.

Secondly, this thread won't turn out like that. When my time frees up in a few weeks, you'll see that effort pouring into this thread.

Okay, Pierce it is. I prefer to be called Mizu.
Good, TY. I get extremely angry when someone makes an amazing thread and does not ever add to it again. It's fine take your time. I understand, I have school and it takes up a lot of my time.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Okay, Pierce it is. I prefer to be called Mizu.
Good, TY. I get extremely angry when someone makes an amazing thread and does not ever add to it again. It's fine take your time. I understand, I have school and it takes up a lot of my time.

w/e, I won't stop calling you 6Mizu

 

[Kofu]

First of all, you are a player, not a character, so by saying "we are part of the metagame too" then I'm going to assume you're talking about Ganondorf players.

Secondly, I'm not going to "act" like anything. I'm also not going to use fancy words. I have absolutely no problem with being straight up.

Ganondorf is not a viable character for competitive play.

Ganondorf players are very few. Most people do not delude themselves, and realize that even if they were to reach their potential tomorrow, they still have very little to no chance of defeating top players who use viable characters. Ganondorf will likely not be used in any of my examples, because he is unrealistic to face in tournament, and you have yet to master the basics, if you're still losing to Ganondorf.

Ganon is not a useless character. I use him to teach good habits to my apprentices, or fool around and embarrass my friends, or have fun when playing amongst casuals. However, this does not validate his usage in a serious tournament set if you claim to have the intention of winning, or progressing as far as possible with your skill level as a PLAYER.

The character Ganondorf is irrelevant to the metagame. Perhaps no one told you this before, but I have just now, so you have no further excuses. Please continue to use a garbage tier character at your own risk and discretion.

That being said, many of the things in these articles will be applicable to all players and most characters, often including Ganondorf. If you choose to continue maining Ganon, you will yet still find useful information in this thread. But if you're looking for a secret guide to winning with a character who has no business beating people who know what they're doing, and using characters capable of defeating other good characters, then this is not the place for you.

Ganondorf is not part of the metagame (offline, I don't know how he plays online). No good player in their right mind would select Ganondorf if the result mattered to them, against another good player in a tournament set. Statistically, this has shown to be true as well. In fact, I doubt you can even bring me one example of a serious tournament set, where a truly good and known player, lost to a Ganondorf.

And yet, Ganondorf players tend to be quite good players, simply because using him at a competent level is quite hard.

I would disagree that he's not a part of the metagame; not knowing how to fight Ganon can get you killed very easily.

 

[-Ran]

Self gimping yourself is not an argument for the tournament viability of a character or its relevancy, regardless of how good of a player you are. However, let's remember this thread isn't about how abysmally unimportant Ganon is, nor is it about how players are determined to undermine their potential by selecting bottom tier characters.

 

[Kofu]

I wasn't trying to say that Ganon players being good was a reason for relevancy; a character being a part of this game makes it relevant.

But I do think that Ganondorf is a very bad character who can be very easily outplayed at all levels of Brawl.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

LOLOLOLten

You're doing it wrong.

you know a game is bad when the standard approach is a block

This wasn't really necessary. It didn't contribute to any kind of serious discussion and I suggest next time you want to say something humourous like that you add something relevant somewhere within the same post.

And yet, Ganondorf players tend to be quite good players, simply because using him at a competent level is quite hard.

I would disagree that he's not a part of the metagame; not knowing how to fight Ganon can get you killed very easily.

Indeed. I remember a post from the ROB boards back in May '09. Jcaesar said that he'd rather play an obscure character whom people don't know how to deal with than a popular choice whom everyone focuses their matchup discussions on the most. Of course, the metagame has developed well since then, but regardless, he had a point.

Pierce, I beg to differ. Simply because Gannondorf isn't tourney viable and is a "trash tier" character doesn't mean he should be completelly excluded from metagame developement and discussion. It is very well possible that if one who mains a character from low A to B tier completelly ignores the Ganon matchup in their training, the Ganon could beat them out, or at the very least give them a run for their money.

All I'm advocating here is for Ganon to be included in discussion at least to some reasonable degree.

 

[Ray Robo]

Look I'm not saying low tiers are bad or being biased here but if you want to do good competitively in regionals/nationals then MAIN A HIGH TIER. A good character plus a good player can give you good results. I'm not saying lower tiers are bad its just their MU's are worse and so make them harder to win with. Characters have bad MU's but the less the better. That's why they're alot of MK mains because hes so freakin good overall in just about every way. Ganon isn't common competitively because having all bad MU's and being bad as a character. Maining a higher tier will bring you better success in larger tournaments not saying dont main a low tier because its bad but it'll be a heck of alot easier and better chance of placing even.

 

[Kofu]

Well, yeah. That's pretty much a given.

I don't think Ganon will be winning a big tournament any time soon.

 

[Delta-cod]

You should never count on MU inexperience to carry you through a match. Ganon is so bad that you can learn how to beat him DURING a game. MU inexperience doesn't last forever, either.

 

[AvaricePanda]

The inexperience thing works more for mid-tiers or characters that aren't present in a region. That way, not only do less people know how to play the match-up, but the character is actually viable regardless.

Against Ganondorf though, like all of S/A tier should be able to beat one of equal level because his match-up against them is so bad that all those characters have to do is one basic thing to win.

 

[Orion*]

You should never count on MU inexperience to carry you through a match. Ganon is so bad that you can learn how to beat him DURING a game. MU inexperience doesn't last forever, either.

lmao irony in that you play yoshi.

This wasn't really necessary. It didn't contribute to any kind of serious discussion and I suggest next time you want to say something humourous like that you add something relevant somewhere within the same post.

wtf man stop just respond like a normal person. im happy you have a blue name but you can chill with the haterade srsly. go count pixels someplace in your basement

edit: avarice is right

 

[Delta-cod]

Orion, I don't count on my opponents being inexperienced against Yoshi. Not at this point, at least.

 

[Orion*]

then why play him. even if you get past the 65:35 mus the next time you play someone they will go wolf/hard counter you

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

then why play him. even if you get past the 65:35 mus the next time you play someone they will go wolf/hard counter you

If you consider the amount of wolf's in the NJ/NY/PA area I think he's fairly safe maining yoshi.

 

[TheSaintKai]

There aren't any Wolfs around FL either. I main Wolf, and I can't find anyone who's better than me to help me figure things out. -sigh-

 

[Delta-cod]

then why play him. even if you get past the 65:35 mus the next time you play someone they will go wolf/hard counter you

I know the Wolf MU too well to be gayed by it. There's only one MU I'm not currently confident in, and I'm getting people to help me with it.

And I play Yoshi because I fit the character well. I feel very natural when playing him, so I do. He also doesn't do too bad vs. Top tiers in comparison to many other characters, despite his low tier placement.