How to play Brawl, and a guide to understanding the metagame: UPDATED 10/18

[kackamee]

^ All hail Delta

 

[Orion*]

I know the Wolf MU too well to be gayed by it. There's only one MU I'm not currently confident in, and I'm getting people to help me with it.

And I play Yoshi because I fit the character well. I feel very natural when playing him, so I do. He also doesn't do too bad vs. Top tiers in comparison to many other characters, despite his low tier placement.

you lost to gunblades random wolf... -.- and that is ONE of MANY hard counters. LOL

he doesnt do bad vs top tiers because the top tier mains dont know what to do.

yoshi vs mk is beyond awful. you have nothing other than egg lay which is god hard to space unless you want to stale usmash. you can jump over it or something but then your above mk lol.

yoshi vs snake people for some reason is only slightly in snakes favor or something. like ive played it from both side, yoshi does fine if snake doesnt know what to do, and in all honesty if snake makes mistakes he can get gayed but its like 65/35

yoshi vs diddy is awful. i dont think i need to explain why >_>. GL with draconic reverse shenanigans that dont matter over bananas when i can just push buttons.

 

[Delta-cod]

you lost to gunblades random wolf... -.- and that is ONE of MANY hard counters. LOL

he doesnt do bad vs top tiers because the top tier mains dont know what to do.

yoshi vs mk is beyond awful. you have nothing other than egg lay which is god hard to space unless you want to stale usmash. you can jump over it or something but then your above mk lol.

yoshi vs snake people for some reason is only slightly in snakes favor or something. like ive played it from both side, yoshi does fine if snake doesnt know what to do, and in all honesty if snake makes mistakes he can get gayed but its like 65/35

yoshi vs diddy is awful. i dont think i need to explain why >_>. GL with draconic reverse shenanigans that dont matter over bananas when i can just push buttons.

By mastered, I've meant recently. I feel EXTREMELY confident about the Wolf MU nowadays. There are only a few people who's Wolf I believe can beat me at this point. Gunblade's shouldn't win again.

Yoshi vs. MK, we have eggs, Pivot Grab, and Usmash. That's about all the relatively safe stuff. Egg lay for landing, possibly. Uair if we catch you in an egg trap. Past the first 3 moves, it's all about maintaining momentum and staying safe. It's not beyond awful, because what I've said is VERY possible to do. No, it's not even, but it's not a "lol get *****" battle.

Snake is SO easy, I don't know what you're talking about. We out camp Snake, and he has NO option to Uair. None. He's way too easy to juggle and keep off balance. I'd say it's 45:55, and only because Snake is an absolute monster to kill because he's so **** heavy.

I won't comment on Diddy because I'm not too certain on the MU. The only practice I have on it is against Xionix back at Wiegraf, where we went even, against Kai, whom I lost to, and ADHD. I'm certain that it's not terrible, but it's certainly not good.

Anyways, I feel like we're derailing this thread, so I'd rather not continue here. PM/IM me or something, if you'd like.

 

[Orion*]

Yoshi vs. MK, we have eggs, Pivot Grab, and Usmash. That's about all the relatively safe stuff. Egg lay for landing, possibly. Uair if we catch you in an egg trap. Past the first 3 moves, it's all about maintaining momentum and staying safe. It's not beyond awful, because what I've said is VERY possible to do. No, it's not even, but it's not a "lol get *****" battle.

eggs.... because im going to do a melee move when youre in projectile range.
pivot grab... go over your head / grab range. you take % and your above mk. it works if i mess up and its tight spacing but its relying on people being bad
usmash.... works. congrats. your usmash beats nado. so does like 90% of the cast. if you make a read i take %, if im stupid at high percents i die. its not your bread and butter.

Snake is SO easy, I don't know what you're talking about. We out camp Snake, and he has NO option to Uair. None. He's way too easy to juggle and keep off balance. I'd say it's 45:55, and only because Snake is an absolute monster to kill because he's so **** heavy.

ehhh. i dont really agree on yoshi outcamping snake completely, but in all honesty it doesnt matter. all of your options to getting snake off the ground are balls unsafe and your risk reward ratio in comparison to his is awful. you cant kill him without uair until like 200% lmao i dont really see that being easy.

as for yoshi out camping snake, in theory, grenades suck in general at camping but id rather not do the whole theory battle. eggs are easy to powershield and avoid. you die from my projectile. you at best get a dash grab from yours

I won't comment on Diddy because I'm not too certain on the MU. The only practice I have on it is against Xionix back at Wiegraf, where we went even, against Kai, whom I lost to, and ADHD. I'm certain that it's not terrible, but it's certainly not good.

bananas are so safe its almost sad. yoshi's best options against them are in the air, which is also bad. your cg sucks and does like 2%. you get banana locked for like 50%. banana locks end in death at high percent. cgs end in like a fthrow lol

 

[Conviction]

And continues the agruement keep away from the original meaning of the thread.....why does this remind me of something? If you REALLY feel that strong about Yoshi's MUs and them being wrong, take it with Yoshis, in the Yoshi Boards, not here.

 

[Limeee]

yoshi is maaad underrated

just watch firefly play

he's soooo good

 

[Nefarious B]

And continues the agruement keep away from the original meaning of the thread.....why does this remind me of something? If you REALLY feel that strong about Yoshi's MUs and them being wrong, take it with Yoshis, in the Yoshi Boards, not here.

You're the exact same way with Fox.

 

[Conviction]

You're the exact same way with Fox.

Really? Well even if I am. I would like to try and keep out of important threads. Sorry if I have done something like that though

EDIT: Idk if you knew but the post you quoted was to Orion after Delta said let's stop.

 

[Orion*]

lmao its not like pierce is posting anything of relevance atm that anyone can respond to. he made posts, everyone said it was a good read herp derp. but until schools over he already said he cant [really start the thread] so if you want to get that technical about it i could argue that the thread is pointless because it was made with the intention of sitting here doing nothing for like a month. if anything thank me ***** since im bumping it

 

[Delta-cod]

My main concern was derailing the thread so bad that a large debate would occur, so when Pierce finally did update the thread, discussion about what he's said would be lost among the debating. I'd rather stop it before it got out of control, is all.

 

[Turbo Ether]

NJ players derailing the thread too good.

 

[PK-ow!]

I realized shortly after reading this, that I have no idea how to play this game.

In fact, I had no idea how Fighters work.


I have begun, as of yesterday, learning how to actually space. And play this game.
I have begun to learn how Fighters work.


Every win I ever got, and every stock I ever took, is because either my opponents knew just as little, or they were humouring my capabilities for the sake of a safer, more stabilized position in the endgame. Once again, I defer to Napoleonic wisdom on which of those propositions to accept.

Now that I have begun to learn how this game works, I can bring the proper mindset to games with Human opponents.
It seems that every post I ever made, of a tactical nature or concerning matchups, was at best serendipitously true, and otherwise made of bull****. In my defense, this is due to incompetence, not negligence.

It also seems that everything I ever thought about myself as a player, is wrong. Now that I am thinking the right way about games in Fighters, I *do* feel nervous (when previously I had not), I do lose focus, I do miss free opportunities, and I do have a novice's reaction time.


It wasn't this thread itself which did it, but it caused me to do something which did it - realize what I know about Fighter games, that is. For completely turning my last refuge, Fighter gaming, upside-down, inside-out, and color-inverted, Pierce, I give you my utmost gratitude.


It boggles my mind how very little anything in any part of these united forums (without restricted access as far as I know, of course) has ever said about the metagame, and how easily the bridge between novices and reigning professionals can be built, with the start of one extension of a hand. (Though it's not an easy bridge to cross.)

 

[PaintedGhost]

I realized shortly after reading this, that I have no idea how to play this game.

In fact, I had no idea how Fighters work.


I have begun, as of yesterday, learning how to actually space. And play this game.
I have begun to learn how Fighters work.


Every win I ever got, and every stock I ever took, is because either my opponents knew just as little, or they were humouring my capabilities for the sake of a safer, more stabilized position in the endgame. Once again, I defer to Napoleonic wisdom on which of those propositions to accept.

Now that I have begun to learn how this game works, I can bring the proper mindset to games with Human opponents.
It seems that every post I ever made, of a tactical nature or concerning matchups, was at best serendipitously true, and otherwise made of bull****. In my defense, this is due to incompetence, not negligence.

It also seems that everything I ever thought about myself as a player, is wrong. Now that I am thinking the right way about games in Fighters, I *do* feel nervous (when previously I had not), I do lose focus, I do miss free opportunities, and I do have a novice's reaction time.


It wasn't this thread itself which did it, but it caused me to do something which did it - realize what I know about Fighter games, that is. For completely turning my last refuge, Fighter gaming, upside-down, inside-out, and color-inverted, Pierce, I give you my utmost gratitude.


It boggles my mind how very little anything in any part of these united forums (without restricted access as far as I know, of course) has ever said about the metagame, and how easily the bridge between novices and reigning professionals can be built, with the start of one extension of a hand. (Though it's not an easy bridge to cross.)

Jesus, I would think after playing this game for 2 years, you'd know how to space. disregard that i suck *****.

 

[Kofu]

The only clever topic in the first post was that of the sliding shield and its potential. I personally think that Shield DI is more important though. Pity that both are hard to do effectively on Wi-fi.

This thread has potential, certainly. But I think that most good players know about a lot of this stuff already, at least subconsciously.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Sometimes things need to be spoken or in this case written before you can consciously apply them to your game play

 

[Ray Robo]

Some may not know about the metagame as far as other people do. To start this thread we must start at the begining and work our way out. So some people are veterans with the sliding shield technique already.(Unlike me)

 

[Pierce7d]

I'm not going to NOT update the thread at all just because I have school, lol. I'll just put more effort into it when I get free time.

The next thing I'm going to talk about is baiting, and high level reading/punishing, including the primary reads in Brawl which are jumps and airdodges.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

How often are the updates going to be?

 

[6Mizu]

I'm not going to NOT update the thread at all just because I have school, lol. I'll just put more effort into it when I get free time.

The next thing I'm going to talk about is baiting, and high level reading/punishing, including the primary reads in Brawl which are jumps and airdodges.

I like to read the next portion. Pierce could you take a guess and let us all know when you think the next update will be.

How often are the updates going to be?

Pierce updates it whenever he has free time. So, there is no set date.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

lame I don't expect another update then piece is good for that.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

Now this is something I need to start reading.

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm not going to NOT update the thread at all just because I have school, lol. I'll just put more effort into it when I get free time.

The next thing I'm going to talk about is baiting, and high level reading/punishing, including the primary reads in Brawl which are jumps and airdodges.

I would really love to read that. Also, why did you post at 5 in the morning?

lame I don't expect another update then piece is good for that.

I assure you, he definitely WILL update this.

 

[Laem]

i still find it ironic how "the most powerful and dominating tactic and approach in the game" was never really elaborated on on SWF. Can't deny tho that it's really good.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I assure you, he definitely WILL update this.

I'll believe it when I see it. I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you.

 

[Kofu]

...
Pierce's location: NJ
Delta-Cod's location: NJ
My guess is he knows Pierce IRL.

 

[Orion*]

we all no pierce irl you ******

 

[-Vocal-]

why does this matter?

but irregardless

you cant "prefer" to play zelda offensively. she cant camp at all, so she will be forced by someone who wants to win to approach.

*shudder*

"Irregardless" is not a word, nor should it ever be typed, written, uttered, or even thought

Now that I vented that nugget: Pierce, I just notice your signature has a reference to FFTactics, and I think that's fantastic And great thread so far; I've advanced to the point where I'm not a noob anymore but I've actually never even thought of this. Oli's options OoS aren't the best compared to some, but they're useful enough that I'm sure I'll find use for this. I'm waiting for the next installment with bated breath.

 

[Pierce7d]

Olimar doesn't Dash -> Shield, because Olimar shouldn't be approaching, like ever, lol. He camps the whole match, and counters the tactic with grabs and Pivot grabs. However, his weakness of low priority coupled with a slower grab counters the normal zoning game he has. Fortunately, purple toss keeps Olimar from sucking, so his Metagame is very different.

 

[-Vocal-]

Olimar doesn't Dash -> Shield, because Olimar shouldn't be approaching, like ever, lol. He camps the whole match, and counters the tactic with grabs and Pivot grabs. However, his weakness of low priority coupled with a slower grab counters the normal zoning game he has. Fortunately, purple toss keeps Olimar from sucking, so his Metagame is very different.

Well that's what I meant when I said his options weren't the best, but I was specifically thinking of the Falco matchup; unfortunately he can outcamp Olimar so when I'm forced to approach this could come in handy as a mixup.

 

[6Mizu]

Just play mk.
Anyway, Pierce I cannot wait for the next update.

 

[Orion*]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...s&sa=X&ei=Uw0VTJDrA4T58AaIq5G2Cg&ved=0CBUQkAE

sorry im not some magical english person vocal lmao. either way you play olimar, whos bad so enjoy

 

[-Vocal-]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...s&sa=X&ei=Uw0VTJDrA4T58AaIq5G2Cg&ved=0CBUQkAE

sorry im not some magical english person vocal lmao. either way you play olimar, whos bad so enjoy

I don't define 10th on the tier list as bad; he'd be better described as borderline viable, with a lot of effort required. And I know you're not an english wizard lol, I wasn't trying to say anything about you as a person; that word has just always rubbed me the wrong way. I don't mind if you use it, I simply had to vent my frustration at it's existing

Just play mk.
Anyway, Pierce I cannot wait for the next update.

Thanks for the advice (this is something I've been considering for a counter), and this will work fine unless someone counterpicks a Falco against my Olimar; there are better counters, but perhaps the other player would not be a player of them, in which case I should be prepared. And I'm just assuming you only meant play MK against Falco; abandoning a character simply because he's not the best seems a bit...well, devoid of soul to me. True, this is a game and people play it to win, but I think I've found a good balance. I actually happen to like Olimar, and he's in a position that's not entirely advantageous, but it can be worked with. I fully understand that there are easier paths out there and Olimar iz B tire s0 he'z n0 gud, but I can live with that and still be happy.

 

[Pierce7d]

This thread has been updated. Check out post 3 for the next installment.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You know what else is amazing about not hitting a shield (by which I'm implying that you are whiffing a poke outside of range when your opponent shields)? By not giving your opponent shieldstun to react to, it also gives them less time in general to react when you draw close to them and often can really mess up conventional attempts to punish.

I'm not suggesting that whiffing should be your primary strategy, it's just that it is situationally very useful.

Oh yeah and then I feel that B reversals should get a mention since depending on your character, it can be really useful if you have a combination of a good B-air and a good reversal option that can punish a feint.

 

[Delta-cod]

I approve of the recent update.

One of the things I've been really trying to abuse is what you mentioned the fact that people will shield if you jump at them. It sets up for mid air grabs (Egg Lay <3) so well, and then you can get your opponent to be afraid to shield when you jump, allowing you to use a normal aerial instead. The only problem I have is I don't actually follow this thought process very well all the time.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

well I'll be pierce updated the thread.... .

 

[Conviction]

He said he would >.>

 

[uhmuzing]

Yeah, why were you so convinced he wouldn't?

Forgot to say so, but this is some great stuff, Pierce. :D
I can't wait to start applying some of this.

 

[mosesrko24]

pierce teach us conditioning

 

[hippiedude92]

ahhhh pierce.

l coulda swore youd mention mario's empty sh mindgames =[

but good read