IC stage discussion-Delfino Rediscussion :O

[Sieguest]

Spoiler

eh, a bit tardy

Hopefully the curse won't get this one...a new stage discussion! ​

Here's what'll happen:
1.We'll have a stage to discuss every week.
2. At the end of the week we'll come up with a rating and short summary for the stage
3. OP will be edited as needed!

Week 1
Battlefield
Final Score: 9

A fairly good stage for the IC's, Uairs help put the pressure on opponents on platforms, and the main stage is good to get a grab on, and the top platform provides for CG finishers at early percents.There are also an amount of protected ledge drop options that may be open to you. On the other hand, there is not a lot of room to work with on this stage and can create a hassle sometimes, and campy opponents can use the platforms to evade and force you into an uncomfortable situation. Overall though, according to the champ, this is our best neutral!

Battlefield is THE best neutral for IC's.

Week 2: Castle Siege
Final Score: 2

Castle Siege is definitely not the ICs best stage, while there are advantages, there are so many disadvantages covering them up that you just shouldn't choose this stage. Maybe you're best bet is the thirty seconds of an FD-esque third transformation, but that's about it.

CS = get pressured homosexually on the first transformation, camped out on the 2nd, and then 30 seconds of flat land = this stage sucks for IC's.

Week 3: Delfino Plaza
Final Score: Unscored

I'll guess that no one plays on this stage or CPs it? might come back to it later.

Week 4: Final Destination
Final Score: 9

Final Destination is pretty much like battlefield except for no platforms and a longer stage. Nothing to interrupt your chaingrabs and you can camp very well here (unless your opponent out camps you) Average blastlines so you can survive until a decent percent with good DI and you can score K.Os fairly decently. Whether you use this stage or battlefield comes down to the character you face!

Week 5: Halberd
Final Score: Unscored

I'll take this as a nobody plays on halberd and move on!

Week 6: Smashville
Final Score: Unscored

We'll come back to this one too...

Week 7: Luigi's Mansion
Final Score: 7

Luigi's mansion, if used right, is a good stage for the Ice Climbers, It's impossible to get past blizz walls if you're on the bottom floor under the low ceiling, and you can survive for a while if you can tech well as well, you can manuever yourself with your CGs to get into a good spot to finish them. You also get quick finishes on the top floor of the mansion. Uair is good for pressuring opponents a floor above you. If the posts supporting the house are destroyed, then you have a stage just like FD which is great for the ICs as well.
The posts may get in the way of some of your Ice Blocks, and if you don't know how to maneuver yourself during a CG then this can be a cause of some problems, but overall a nice stage.

Week 8: Rainbow Cruise
Final Score: 2

So Rainbow cruise pretty much sucks for the ICs, opponents can take out Nana very easily and there are many places where SoPo just can't cut it. The only semi good thing is that it may be a good CP against some characters, but there's always FD or BF for that.

Week 9: Pokemon Stadium 2
Score: -

 

[momochuu]

You should probably spruce this up. Look at the stage discussions me and Blue Terrorist did for examples.

 

[Skadorski]

Ignore this.

 

[momochuu]

Here, like this.


Good luck. =X It's more work than it seems.

 

[Funen1]

I might as well just copy the description I put in that last guy's topic for Battlefield (with a few revisions):

Battlefield has its ups and downs for the ICs. The main stage is perfect for chaingrabs, but the numerous platforms usually help your opponents more than they help you, giving certain characters a means to either evade and camp you, or in some cases control the stage on you (i.e. Snake). You can try to pressure with U-airs, but they can only get you so far. If you happen to grab someone on one of the platforms at high percent, vertical kills suddenly become much easier to pull off, especially if you can CG them there without accidently falling through (personally, I wouldn't recommend trying to go up on any platform that often unless you happen to get knocked up there). With the platforms on each side, edgeguarding is not as easy as it could be (more options for landing), but it is still doable.

My score: 3/5. It wouldn't be my first choice, but there are far worse stages.

 

[Sieguest]

edited OP to look a little neater....is that good?

Anyway-I think about a 6 for this stage...it's small so there's not a lot of breathing room.
You can get easy ceiling K.O.s off the top platform with an infinite (provdided you get a grab)
I find Blizzard is really good on this stage for walling. Uair is really good for pressuring you opponent when you're below the platform...and having Nana drop only is a pretty well protected ledge drop IMO..
that's all I can think of at this point...

 

[Skadorski]

Marthage how r u gonna do this? Are you going to write it in or do quotes?
Also how r u going to do a diff stage next week if ur gone? >.>
And VM me the stages ur going to do in a row, so I can get the images up shoon
Also, do we just make a new thread so it doesn't get cluttered or just stick to this one?

 

[kackamee]

I've always been confused about Stage discussion threads. Because I don't know how to give an opinion. Battlefield for example: I pick it vs. Diddy's and Snake's (some others but just examples for now) Because some of their stuff that is hard to get around gets cooped up on the platforms. But then again, it's bad against some other charaters for other reasons....So how should I go about stating an opinion?

 

[Sieguest]

I've always been confused about Stage discussion threads. Because I don't know how to give an opinion. Battlefield for example: I pick it vs. Diddy's and Snake's (some others but just examples for now) Because some of their stuff that is hard to get around gets cooped up on the platforms. But then again, it's bad against some other charaters for other reasons....So how should I go about stating an opinion?

Just talk about the ups and downs you feel about the stage!
What strategies are very effective on this stage?
What strategies aren't so effective on this stage?
Stuff like that!

 

[Skadorski]

I've always been confused about Stage discussion threads. Because I don't know how to give an opinion. Battlefield for example: I pick it vs. Diddy's and Snake's (some others but just examples for now) Because some of their stuff that is hard to get around gets cooped up on the platforms. But then again, it's bad against some other charaters for other reasons....So how should I go about stating an opinion?

W/e works for you. If you think Dair works here go riiiiiiight ahead.
As for character specific, don't. Just list what you have to say, we have a match-up thread about these things.

Spoiler

You pick battlefield when playing SNAKE???

No reading spoilers if your going to get on me
Plus he has that C4 revorery, so he wont get gimped. PLUS he can wall-jump it.

 

[Smasher89]

I think the main reason to pick BF against snake has to do with the edgeguarding, snake snake has a really hard time getting back to stage/safe ground...

 

[Attila_]

I think the main reason to pick BF against snake has to do with the edgeguarding, snake snake has a really hard time getting back to stage/safe ground...

pick bf against snake? i seriously disagree...

its one of snake's best stage by far. platforms allow for c4s to hit from below too, make it easier to hit with utilt and help him get back. if he recovers high and is decent at wavebouncing, recovering shouldnt be a problem here unless he's versing an mk. recovering on fd is much, much harder, cause grabbing him is child's play without platforms.

 

[Skadorski]

GUYS this is about battlefield period. If you wanna fight about it VM each other or w/e.
I'm saying this early so it doesn't start a chain.
Also, I wanna know what you guys think about that platform thing here, where Nana is on one of the side floating platforms and Popo is under her on the ground. Useful? Doubles mindgamez? Worthless?

 

[Funen1]

I think if Nana is that far away, she'll be outside her box and instead try to catch up with Popo by dropping down. Even if she stayed there, you'd probably have to keep a close eye on her to make sure she doesn't get hit hard or otherwise do something stupid.

 

[lain]

Battlefield is THE best neutral for IC's.

 

[Skadorski]

Battlefield is THE best neutral for IC's.

Well....can you put infos on it plz? I personally think Smashville is but prove me wrong.
vvvvvThe moving platform likes me and my gay metaknight
It's just opinion.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The moving platform is a nuisance.

 

[Teh Future]

I guess we're assuming that FD will always be striked....

But I usually like YI more than battlefield if they strike both FD and SV

 

[Attila_]

Battlefield is THE best neutral for IC's.

care to share why?

 

[Funen1]

As much as I dislike Yoshi's Island personally, I still think it's a better stage for the ICs than Battlefield (though not by too much). And about FD, you won't always see it banned among lesser players (I've hardly seen it banned against me in the few tournaments I've attended), but that's just because they may not understand the true power the ICs have there.

 

[r3d d09]

the maps also depend on playing style. I play decent on BF when others like FD and what not, but yet it's probably because I have a hard time 0-death CGing xD

 

[FrozenHobo]

Battlefield is THE best neutral for IC's.

this man speaks the truth.

 

[r3d d09]

Well....can you put infos on it plz? I personally think Smashville is but prove me wrong.
vvvvvThe moving platform likes me and my gay metaknight
It's just opinion.

Didn't see the "and my gay metaknight" till i read this page three times... darn my partial colorblindness >.<

 

[Sieguest]

Battlefield is THE best neutral for IC's.

Well....can you put infos on it plz? I personally think Smashville is but prove me wrong.
vvvvvThe moving platform likes me and my gay metaknight
It's just opinion.

care to share why?

A general rule is that you don't ever question lain...his word is truth...always....

this man speaks the truth.

He gets the idea....

But in all seriousness- Why is battlefield the best neutral...platform games?

 

[FrozenHobo]

well, utitl pokes through platforms, it actually helps our aerial game (can do aerials higher up/don't have to fall all the way back to the main platform). we can still CG on each of the platforms.

FD is our other great stage. flat, no distractions. can't do aerials as high as BF, but its still good.

SV is bad. that platform is camp city. plus, it can **** with gimps/recoveries. i hardly ever go there if i can help it.

 

[lain]

I mean, the thing is, if MK is playing super gay and never coming down, this can be countered with the uairs. However, Smashville's platform moves off the stage back and forth, meaning that if MK were to play gay enough they could just jump a whole bunch and glide to the platform on the other side. This means you can't do anything.

Battlefield (or any stage for that matter) doesn't have moving platforms. I don't like Yoshi's due to the platform tilting for most of the time (except Spring or something?) and thus you get weird platform dynamics that don't work for IC's.

 

[Jupz]

Thanks lain

Also, they can't go over short-hopped blizzards desynch and come from the top because of the platform.

 

[Funen1]

To some extent, judging how good a stage is for the ICs is matchup-dependent. I can definitely see where lain is coming from with MK, for instance, but I would be hesitant to bring a Snake there (then again, some people would be hesitant to even use ICs against a Snake).

 

[r3d d09]

I agree with lain about yoshi island. the whole tilting plat isn't the best.

 

[Skadorski]

Ok guys we are now disscussing: Castle Siege! If you still have info you would like to add to Battlefield you have the rest of today to do so.

 

[Teh Future]

Ive acually been considering counterpicking CS against MK. 2/3s of the stage should be really good for us because we can't get gimped in stage 2 and stage 3 = FD. I dunno about the first part though, Ill have to try it out. Also the 2nd part might just = camp city for MK I dunno.

 

[Skadorski]

Ive acually been considering counterpicking CS against MK. 2/3s of the stage should be really good for us because we can't get gimped in stage 2 and stage 3 = FD. I dunno about the first part though, Ill have to try it out. Also the 2nd part might just = camp city for MK I dunno.

I will have to agree with this(I main MK too), I think castle siege is a REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD stage for MK. I think the 1st part of the stage is MKs advantage because it's sooooo small, but the other two are bad for him. The 2nd part is good for him if you don't tear down the statues, but if you do I think it's our advantage (Ice Block Lock ) The 3rd one is our adv, it's just FD with a couple ridges and some tilting. Plenty of CG space.
But for the ICs in general:
1st part: I think this is not-so-good for the ICs. Not much CG space, opponents can get around most Blizzards and Ice Blocks, and the overall space issues kill us. 4/10
2nd part: Ice Block Lock. Period. This owns BAD, I think it's a very good place for the ICs, even without CG or IBL. And if all else fails, just camp to death at the top. And it makes killing with Fsmash in a grab a breeze. 8.5/10
3rd part: It's good, I don't think there are any "dissadvantages" on this part for the ICs, just CGing with the tilting could be a problem. Good place for Ice Blocks, too. 6.5/10
Hey FutureWrestler, what score do you give it out of 10? Give all of them a score please, like me. Also, ill get to that testing on MK. If you have any more infos please feel free to post em.

 

[lain]

CS = get pressured homosexually on the first transformation, camped out on the 2nd, and then 30 seconds of flat land = this stage sucks for IC's.

 

[Teh Future]

LOL yeah I dont want to give it a score cause I've never counterpicked it and it might be super lame, I was just putting some thoughts out there.

 

[r3d d09]

I have to agree with Lain, I wouldn't CP CS, i'd rather go to green greens that CS xD

 

[Funen1]

Castle Siege has aspects that would seem to help the ICs, but it has so many glaring flaws that overshadow almost anything that might be good. That slant on the first transformation is a bit too big for chaingrabs to be very feasible, though I'm not sure if the platforms' positions are really that bad. The second part would be great for the ICs if the opponent did not have SO much room to run. Not to mention that the statues would prevent any potential Ice Block Locks (and by the time you destroy the statues, you'll either be dead or the stage will switch again). And I advise not to camp on top yourself, as the ICs are weak from below (especially when the platforms disappear during the next stage switch). The third part is almost like FD, but it doesn't last very long (relatively speaking), so make every move count here. The transitioning period lasts only five seconds or so, but it may be enough to set up an edgeguard opportunity if you have the enemy on the defensive going into it.

My score: 2/5. I've tried counterpicking this stage before, and failed hard because so many things hinder the ICs here.

 

[swordgard]

I mean, the thing is, if MK is playing super gay and never coming down, this can be countered with the uairs. However, Smashville's platform moves off the stage back and forth, meaning that if MK were to play gay enough they could just jump a whole bunch and glide to the platform on the other side. This means you can't do anything.

Battlefield (or any stage for that matter) doesn't have moving platforms. I don't like Yoshi's due to the platform tilting for most of the time (except Spring or something?) and thus you get weird platform dynamics that don't work for IC's.

Also , less space=having to use nado more often to get out of hard spots=punishable.


I completely agree with lain here, 10/10 as ics having BF as their best stage period.

Small=less camping. They can kill fast too, can upair through platforms, recover using platforms, nana is less likely to get gayed by backthrow to fsmash by snake. Blizzard is twice as effective due to lack of space to move back for people.

 

[Skadorski]

>.> What stage you wanna do next Marthage?
Tell me and ill get the picture up and runnin'.

 

[Attila_]

i tried cs against an mk at a tourny pretty recently. transformation 1 was fine, but he avoided me on number 2, and ledged on number 3. gay gay gay. not choosing this stage against him again. then again, if your opponent doesnt like to play gay (i know i cant do it), go ahead.

 

[r3d d09]

... next stage :D