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Ice Climbers Matchup Discussion REVAMPED - Week 1 Snaaaaaaaakeeeee

Myollnir

Smash Ace
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
943
Location
Paris, France
Yeah, I don't know why everyone is counterpicking me on BF. I played only ICs in the brackets. That means nobody counterpicked me a real CP.
When my opponent is searching a gay CP, I just have to say that my second is MK and he counterpicks BF lol.
As for Leon/Glutonny, they always CP SV and ban FD. In our first Bo5, I guess Leon counterpicked me on BF because he thought platforms = no grabs.
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
23,165
Location
Missouri
Switch FC
2687-7494-5103
Lol he looked like he had never played an IC before. He kept spacing wrong and using moves like shield breaker which would just get him grabbed.
 

Roller

Smash Legend
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
13,137
Location
Just follow the grime...
so they picked up ICs because of you?
I mean.. That's usually how it works. You watch somebody **** people with a character in a way that looks cooler than what you've been doing, so you pick up that character. It explains why MI has an absurd number of ICs when say... SoCal has like none.
 

Sieguest

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
3,448
Location
San Diego, CA

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
23,165
Location
Missouri
Switch FC
2687-7494-5103
Lol I didn't play Ic's nearly as much in texas, when I placed high there it was with GW because it took me like a year to get really good with IC's when I switched back to them after they're cg's got unbanned.

I just my city alone (saint louis) we have like 4 ics lol. Though I'm the only IC main.
 

Smoom77

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
3,873
Location
Provo, UT
Ok I'll post my peach write up here and the social thread.

I have really good experience against Peach. From what I see from ILLMATIC if you're playing on somewhere like FD where there aren't platforms, all they do is float, space, and dair if you get underneath them. You have to basically run in and fullhop a nair, fastfall, and run away. If they airdodge, then do NOT fastfall or dair or whatever. They can utilt, uair, what ever. They own when you're in the air. If they pull a turnip semi-close, run in with shield to pressure and/or grab. Almost ALL of my grabs I get are when they pull turnips at the wrong time.

Smashville is very different. Same with the dair, but they can jump on the moving platform and spam turnips. Do not try to jump offstage and upair them while the platform is off the stage. They can bair you SUPER easily.

As for bans, ban either RC or Brinstar depending on the player. Illmatic, I know, loves RC against me, and he loves Brinstar against basically every character minus MK.
On Brinstar, just always be watching out for peach bombers because they can bounce off the breakable pieces and they can float off of the recoil. Stay away from them when the lava is rising, or you can pressure them with squall (if you find an opening).
On Rainbow Cruise, the first section is sorta iffy. Often Illmatic just waits on the right side and throws turnips. Just stay against that wall upair'ing/uptilt'ing and wait because if you jump then they will just jump up and dair you (and you can't do much cause you're in the air.) The second section, work really hard to staying beneath her at all times. You have a great vertical recovery so it doesn't matter if you're really low as it rises. On the pendulum thing, be pretty careful. We're both not very good here because we just suck on RC, and the tilted platform can often mess her up with her floats. Get to the next part asap. Next part is a weird BF, just play it as it is.

For CPs, do what you feel comfortable on. I like FD, BF, and YI, but I've heard that Lylat is good because of the tilt of the stage (messes up the float).

For general tricks, remember Peach can fair onto the ledge, gimp and keep Nana separated easily. If she tries to sideB (Peach bomber) to the ledge too high, dtilt which can gimp her well if she doesn't have a float.

Her fair is safe if spaced well. If they jab afterwards a well-spaced fair, roll or run away (you don't have any options). If it's misspaced, you can grab. Squall is very odd because if they DI right they can nair (which ALWAYS beats squall). I find squall useful when you're at midrange when she's pulling a turnip because she can't nair or dair. All she can do is throw her turnip (squall beats turnip if it hits the hammer (so don't squall above her)). Grounded squall is a very good mix-up, I use it a lot more often.

This is an weird idea that I've taken from Japanese ICs but I've tried fitting in some FH/double jump fairs if they float really high. It often works because why would they fair when they're floating high??

For basic basic strategies, running up to her in shield has lots of options. If they have a turnip, they will either jump, glide toss forward or back. If they jump, space a nair. Glide toss back or forward, nair/autocatch the turnip and throw it back. Often if they GC forward, the nair will hit them (you really gotta predict when they throw or else you'll fail). If they don't have a turnip, nair or turn around and bair because well spaced/timed things can beat a LOT of things.

If you're stuck in your shield in her dair, ROLL AWAY. Another option, risky though, is a buffered nair oos. If you time it differently, you can have Nana only nair while you run away (super safe as long as Peach doesn't nair because hers is faster (the reason she doesn't always nair after dair is because often she's daired several times and she's running out of float and falling nair isn't good against our shield)). ONE OTHER OPTION (but very situational) is jumping oos and buffering an up-b. It beats dair hits, but they can completely avoid it if they move after their dair.

In the past, Illmatic and I went to timer/close often, but lately we've evolved the matchup and it's really not based on the timer.

Illmatic, please comment!
 

zet@_956

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
29
Location
Gulfport, Mississippi
Smoom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Haven't been to a Hobo in months. Haven't played Brawl in months too. Gonna test my skills once again next week. Going to Kingsville. Gonna represent them IC's down here. Have 1 week to work out my ICs. Wish me luck man
 

Mr. game and watch

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
4,273
Location
Tyler, Texas
Small town called mineola. An hour from Tyler which is an ok sized city and like 2 hours from Dallas which is sexi.
Dang smoom. Haha your 5th best ICs come to Dallas we don't remember the match up probably :)

:phone:
 

[FBC] ESAM

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
12,197
Location
Pika?
It is worse for Fox than it is for Falco. Falco is a better camper with better spacing so it is harder for us to get in, as opposed to fox which has....jumps?
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
IDK, I've had a much easier time with Falco than I have Fox :\

By A LOT.
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
Umm I run into every attack. I fall for every shield drop frame trap. And he runs away super quickly.
When I get separated I get super gimped super fast.

And I drop my CGs against fox like every other character.
 

FrozenHobo

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
5,272
Location
Nowhere Land
Cave Johnson said:
The lab boys say that might be a fear reaction. I'm no psychiatrist, but coming from a bunch of eggheads who wouldn't recognize the thrill of danger if it walked up and snapped their little pink bras, that sounds like projection.
so? they do 1 damage and don't stop you. as long as you don't stand there you should be fine. just remember ice blocks gets pushed back at first, but if you can get the slightly shrunken one through they'll hit him. don't get mindgamed by lasers. they aren't an issue. they don't stop you from moving. if he tries doing a laser wall, move in, but just outside fo his range. he'll stop ahead of time so he can react, but then you won't be close enough for him to do much. then you can punish when HE does something.

i dunno, just some thinking i'm doing while sitting in my underwear at 11:36 at night :/
 

Teh Future

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
4,870
Location
St. Louis, MO
fox does fine against ics. 6-4 or better for him.

falco isn't even that bad either but def worse.

lol @ esam thinking fox is bad bc he plays pika***
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
23,165
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Missouri
Switch FC
2687-7494-5103
Falco vs IC's is pretty much impossible for falco lol its at least like 70-30. The only falco that can beat any of the top Ic players is DEHF...because he's one of the best players in the world lol. The match-up is fine until falco realizes he can't separate or kill the IC's without committing himself to something really risky which usually ends up with him being grabbed. Ice blocks and blizzard shut down close range lasers into set-ups, he can't use his amazing grab game against them, he phantasm is stopped by several of their moves...it's just really really really hard for falco.

Fox is a little better because he can actually approach them and do some good mix-ups with his dair/nair/shine and he can actually kill them. The match-up is still a lot easier for IC's though because they can afford wayyy more mistakes than the fox can.

Edit:

Luxxxxx


You should try playing like..opposite of how you normally play. Not because how you play is bad(I wish I could play like you lol) but because when I watch your matches it seems like you miss a lot of the simple stuff. I would practice in friendlies just trying something simple and seeing what stems from it. For example the last time I played Zeton in tournament was the losers finals of kahoka. Before the match my only thoughts regarding how I was going to play him were: "I should use a lot of ice blocks to force him to the ledge".

That's it.

From that comes a ton of more complicated stuff that I didn't need or have to think about, I just went with the flow from there. Because I was using a lot of iceblocks he was jumping a lot and it let me get easy reads off his landings. Because I was zoning him to the edge I was stopping his constant lasering because he was worried about he was going to get past me without getting uaired a million times or getting grabbed. I feel like you would be able to use your amazing desynching a lot more efficiently if you used it a bit less and focused on simpler things. You might find yourself starting to get wayyy more grabs because of it, or on the other hand you might find yourself with huge % leads.

I could be completely wrong lol because I don't really know what you think before or when you are playing but just offering some advice that came to mind.
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
Yeah, I more or less sat down with Zeton on Saturday and he and I played like 8-10 sets. That guys is evasive as hell haha

I started playing even, even winning a couple when I was like, "I'm just going to ISSDI Grab everything". Once I figured out the Dair shield drop frame trap, I stopped biting on that, so dsmash stopped separating.

At which point, the only time I got separated really was when I stayed in shield too long and he grabbed.

But I hate playing matches where the primary strategy is to shield grab things lol

I always feel so helpless


AND I'm flattered you wish you could play like I do. But it's really easy. All you have to do is like, grab people repeatedly in sets, and then let them go. And then get frustrated and start pressing too hard and running into stupid stuff. Like I go into my own version of the "IC Grab Tunnel Vision". It's like "DeLux Grab Setup > Grab Tunnel Vision". More or less how I've been losing over and over for the last four tournaments.


Coach me if I come to OS2 in two weeks :)
 
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