Inferno's Decarde, The Bowser Video & Critique Thread

[Dre89]

Wait why would you punish a roll with dair?

If you're going to commit to something to punish a roll, I thought it would make more sense to do something like fsmash or klaw or grab.

Apparently dair is a good shield eater too, and the landing hitbox apparently can protect you from follow ups sometimes. I'm guessing it'd be better to do it on the back of an opponent's shield.

 

[Cassius.]

DAir is terrible

/discussion

 

[Dre89]

No move with unique properties is terrible.

They're just situational and are used as rare mix ups.

A terrible move would be Marth's bthrow, which is outclassed by his dthrow in every aspect.

 

[Zigsta]

Fsmash, Klaw, grab, and upsmash are all better to punish rolls with. Dair's just a mixup I rarely use.

 

[B!squick]

I just UpB if someone rolls into me. But of course, UpB is the be all end all solution in just about every situation.

 

[Uncle]

Good news......

I actually got a few of my games recorded on somebody's Wii at the tournament I was at yesterday.

You guys will finally have something to look at from me, lol. I'll let you all know when they're uploaded.

 

[Zigsta]

FINALLY!!

Looking forward to seeing those vids.

 

[Cassius.]

took you long enough..

 

[Uncle]

It's about damn time I got some critique from you guys. The wait is finally over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYS5r3L9Wrk&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=912ySnnjVSo&feature=channel_video_title

Two tourney games vs. a Sheik.

This is only the beginning, too. The next tourney I'm going to is on Feb 11th, so more vids will come. Our state is finally beginning to crack down on our lack of recording.

 

[Dre89]

One thing I'll say is that you probably jump out of hitstun too often, and waste your second jump. That can be really problematic when trying to land.

 

[Cassius.]

The landing FAir was getting to me quite a bit. There's no reason to do it THAT many times, especially against a Sheik. I only watched like half of the first video though

 

[Zigsta]

Uncle:

-You have 2 bad habits: 1) Sitting in your shield, even when your opponent is far away from you and 2) Wasting your double jump high in the air. Both are nasty problems that are easily corrected.

-You don't always have to Fortress OoS. Start Klawing and Jabbing instead, especially against Sheik. You don't want to be stuck in endlag and get ftilt combo'd.

-You throw out fair when it's not safe.

-I'd like to see you play more grounded in general. Jabs in particular are a GODSEND in this MU, as they keep Bowser juuuust out of ftilt range and force Sheik to GTFO.

-Your ftilting needs a tad more improvement--sometimes you throw it out when the opponent isn't near you. I'm guessing you're just misreading them. This is a VERY bad habit when you play high caliber players (in your case, I'm looking at Kadaj and ESAM). If the notice you have a habit of throwing out ftilts, they'll bait it and punish it because it has just enough lag to not be very safe.

I hope all this helps. You remind me a little bit of myself.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

another habit is your edge game. you jumped from the edge like 99% of the time in the first video, and a lot of the time you used up your double jump too for no reason. i think itd be a good idea to incorporate more options like ledge hop air dodge (into upb/klaw/shield/etc), or just straight up ledge hop klaw if theyre camping shield near the edge or if you can beat out their attacks with it

 

[B!squick]

Also, that Sheik wasn't very good. And Yoshi's was a strange CP stage. The Sheik player would have been boned if he was against MrEh.

 

[Uncle]

Good, good. I need to know precisely what to work on, and this is doing the trick. *taking notes*

Keep it up, guys, and thanks. (unless you've already watched both videos, then you're done. )

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Hello Zigsta, would you judge my Bowser?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS4Ul-4U1uA&list=UUDZfe4ESZxxMNBWWNLeACPg&index=8&feature=plcp

I know he sucks there, but I improved a little from a couple of months back when this video was shot. I don't overuse rolling or dash attack and I play a more defensively. I also kinda suck at Pokemon Stadium. ._.

 

[Zigsta]

Hey Swei, thanks for submitting your video!

I just moved into my new apartment and won't have Internet until Monday. I'll get to your video early next week.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Oh, ok.

I'll be waiting.

 

[Flayl]

You have a bad rolling habit, unfortunately you're going to have a hard time getting rid of it unless you play opponents that are capable of punishing it. Can I suggest at least replacing that bad habit with a "lesser evil"? Use short hops with immediate airdodges, it's relatively safer and more flexible. Bowser's roll is slow and doesn't really go far enough for someone his size.

The default attack to use if you're in the air and your opponent is on the ground is Side B, Forward Air's reach below Bowser isn't so good and the move has a lot of lag if you use it that close to the ground. Side B on the other hand, while not having much reach below Bowser either has a lot more horizontal reach and has no lag whatsoever when landing. At the risk of giving you a bad habit, practice falling with Side B as far as possible from the opponent while still being in range to hit them and press AA when you reach the ground.

Don't use down b if you're not even going to hit your opponent or grab a ledge.

One last stepping-stone habit for you to pick up: If your opponent is near you (his character model is touching yours or almost there), hold shield with 1 finger and immediately press Up and B at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Yes, I notice my rolling habit. A few other better players have told me that I shouldn't do that. I roll much less than when that match was shot. I still roll, but nowhere as much as to get punished for it all the time. (I still get punished, but to a minimum)

Thank you for the advice. I do want to play more like Acid, who uses Side B and Up-B alot. Then again, that probably applies for most pro Bowsers.

By the way, do good players remove the tap jump? I see it's easier alot easier for them to use the U-tilt without jumping. I find it hard to get used anything other the tap jumping. :/

 

[Flayl]

if you can UTilt well without changing tap jump, then leave it on.

 

[Cassius.]

I play with keeping tap jump on. You just have to learn how to UpTilt easily without doing anything else.

For example, some people I know just hold up and flick the c stick up in order to up tilt

some people can just tilt up well and hit A and a smash attack won't come out.

There are definitely other Bowser players who don't/didn't use tap jump though, and they did just fine.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I personally have tap jump off.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Acid is my favorite pro Bowser player. He inspires me to become a better Bowser:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3WrxlML6Tg

Do you consider the infinite Side B jump to be useful for moving around? It looks really good for approaching with aerials.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

i think its best to only do it enough so that every time you do it you make your opponent think, "oh yeah, bowser has infinite jumps"

kind of like bowser bomb out of a grab release; a strong mix up with incredible upside thats easy to punish if your opponent sees it coming

 

[Cassius.]

Yeah, I honestly don't use Klawhopping that much because it's super easy to punish if it's predicted.

And honestly, Bowser has better options on the ground anyway, so being in the air to move around isn't that great to begin with. A lot of characters have a much better/pretty devastating air game on Bowser, so putting yourself in the air for the sake of mobility sounds nice until you bring in someone like...Meta Knight, or something, for example.

 

[B!squick]

He is everything. All I ever wanted, you could even say.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Cal's Bowser is also really good.

And here I thought my own was the MK slayer.

 

[Z'zgashi]

My Bowser is good against Snake... but thats about it lol.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

You must really like ponies.

Everyone these days likes them...

 

[Z'zgashi]

They're pretty awesome actually, I would suggest you give the show a try, it's actually pretty good.

Also, guys, do you have any tips for doing better against Diddy? I know the MU sucks, but are there any things you know of that make the MU less gay?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

;/ It looks cute and funny.

Anyway, I don't know much about that match up, but it's obvious Diddy will be throwing banana peels around the place, so you just have to be very careful with those and try to hit him with Klaw when descending from the air. Also, use him banana peels against him, if he's down on the floor close enough, try to punish with the Down-Smash, which has decent start-up speed. One last thing would be to keep your shield up alot and Up-B out of it if he's near.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

The Up-B OoS is amazingly useful, safe and has quick start-up. Alot of Bowser's attack are actually as reliable (Jab and the tilts). I am almost tempted to say Bowser better than you think.

 

[Dre89]

No one uses down smash because the hitbox is terrible and it can be sdi'd out of.

Upb is always almost a better punish than dsmash because it has a better hitbox, is quicker and has invincibility frames on startup. Dsmash can ko, but that's only if your opponent doesn't sdi it, and usually there are better options like dtilt.

 

[Zigsta]

I've actually been using dsmash a lot more. It's great for punishing airdodges.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I usually use usmash for that.

 

[Cassius.]

I usually use Klaw for that.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I need to use more klaw.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Here I have a recent match I had:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Meuk7KnLEq8

Yeah, I know. I played not taking most of the advice you guys taught me. :C Well, I only forget to use the aerial Klaw, but watch it. Especially you, Zigsta, you owe me a critique from last time.

 

[Zigsta]

I still don't have Internet. :/ I will Friday night.