Investigation - Your character's hardest Match Up?

[Zelderu Maryoto]

Hi. This is an investigation that I made because of curiousity. I got the idea from SuSa, who made an investigation on what was each character's most important match up to learn, whom I PM'd and asked if I could do this investigation. I was allowed to.

Basically, the rules for this investigation is exactly the same as SuSa's, except for the fact that you, in this investigation, are allowed to vote in as many Character Boards as you want to.

I'm posting this investigation in every Character Board on Smashboards. The purpose of this investigation is to figure out what character is one character's hardest. You may discuss it in this thread before you vote.

When you vote, you simply say one particular character you find the hardest for the character in question. But it is your first vote that matters. Whenever I see people have voted in this thread, I edit and write the name of the person that voted and then the character the person voted for.

If you have any question, ask it.

OK, let's get started!

 

[Hedi_]

Wario and D3 (Both can Chaingrab you,Higer air priority.)
< MK its actually not that hard if you know how to camp and Jumpshine OoS>

 

[Goldenadept]

in the current metagame (where most wario's dont realize they have that chaingrab, and less know how to do it right) i'd say pikachu, he has a 0-death on everyone and his regular CG hurts wolf a lot
D3 is really hard but at least he's slow, pika is annoyingly fast, thank god for his lame grab range

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wario

 

[Gah777]

DDD gives me the most trouble (there's no Wario or Pika mains in my state and the only DDD main started picking up MK).

 

[Deleted member]

A lot of Pikas seem pretty bad at fighting Wolf because they think he's easy to handle like Fox. DDD's are pretty annoying, however.

I'd say D3 is the toughest for Wolf.

 

[KRDsonic]

I'd say Pikachu is Wolf's worst matchup. Then again that's because we have several Pikachus here, but no D3s or Warios.

 

[castorpollux]

wario/d3/pikachu in no particular order

 

[Laem]

guys guys guys
i thought we had this well established
our worst MU is ganondorf
you disappoint me *sadface*

 

[castorpollux]

guys guys guys
i thought we had this well established
our worst MU is ganondorf
you disappoint me *sadface*

no... ganondorf is only 40:60 ganondorf advantage


pikachu/d3/wario is all 0:100

 

[Seagull Joe]

D3 is harder with infinites allowed. He is heavier then Wario/Pika. Pika and Wario cg are percent dependent and D3 can do it anytime.

 

[tekkie]

yeah i wouldn't be able to decide between wario, d3 and pikachu.

 

[Arrows]

As wolf, it's gotta be pikachu.
I don't find wario and d3 that bad. Primarily because I retreat fair spam I guess.

 

[Hedi_]

As wolf, it's gotta be pikachu.
I don't find wario and d3 that bad. Primarily because I retreat fair spam I guess.

No dude, pikachu is easy compared to wario lmao.

 

[Arrows]

Not for me man. That being said, i've never PLAYED a good wario.

 

[Ishiey]

Omg I was thinking of starting a project like this yesterday xD Tbh it's hard for some characters to limit it down to just one character, and that's definitely the case for Wolf. Top three are Wario, Pikachu, and D3 according to most Wolf mains, but I'd say it depends.

D3 is the least mobile of the three by far, and also has his infinite/smallstep banned in some regions. However, he also has the ability to start his chaingrab at any % and can also move Wolf across the stage with it, killing with fthrow at really high %s possibly, or setting up for an edgeguard. His lack of mobility means that with a diverse stage list, the grab can be avoided without as much difficulty as long as you make intelligent CP decisions. Without having the infinite/smallstep/ledge infinite banned though, it's practically a 0-death anytime (and almost) anywhere.

Pikachu can't start past 60%, so that's good news. Either way, he can set up into the footstool > lock with an uair during the %s where you aren't vulnerable to an instant footstool out of dthrow I believe. Unlike D3 he is quite a mobile character, but Wolf beats Pikachu in near every other category.

Wario's CG on the other hand, starts at around 60% and can't be started past 124%, but fortunately does not end in a kill move unless you have recovery carry-over lag iirc. Outside of the CG, Wolf has a relatively close matchup with Wario. Both Wario and Pikachu have a few setups into grab, but as always SDI helps you escape them.

Sheik is another character that people might bring up, but she's really not an issue. Can't kill you out of the tilt lock, can't kill you until 80%+ after the tilt lock ends (lol...), and you beat her in almost all aspects when disregarding the tilt lock just like with Pikachu.


So basically, either Wario, D3, or Pikachu. I don't have any Pikachu experience and lack top-level Wario experience, so I won't comment on anything for now.

 

[Choice]

wario for sure imo

he has similar tools that every other bad mu for wolf does, but he's the best character out of them all.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You can't platform camp against Wario, nor does staying on a platform help against his CG to begin with. He can kill directly out of it with a fresh fthrow. He's also the hardest character for Wolf to run away from.

He's our hardest match-up.

 

[Choice]

plus his name starts with a W as well so all our shenanigans are futile and become merely fiction.

 

[castorpollux]

You can't platform camp against Wario, nor does staying on a platform help against his CG to begin with. He can kill directly out of it with a fresh fthrow. He's also the hardest character for Wolf to run away from.

He's our hardest match-up.

lol staying on a most platforms DOES help against his cg

 

[Choice]

he has a move that does 18% when you're right above him though, after that he just runs away charges his fart since he can KO us like at 70% with it. staying on different platform heights isn't as good of a strategy vs wario other than us being below him.

 

[Ishiey]

Staying on the top platform in BF and dropping through with shine when Wario jumps up to get you is a decent enough strategy though imo ;D

People really should start implementing platform drop OoS. If it's really as fast as Yikarur says it is, just... so amazing, especially with Wolf's aerials/shine.

 

[_Kain_]

Basically people are assuming platform camping means just staying on one platform. No you constantly are changing height to ur adv. You can easily drop down bair opponents, its more or less to keep ur opponent moving. And yes platform camping wario does help against the CG cus guess wut. he cant cg u. You fall off the edge

 

[Choice]

he gets to charge his waft while you're sitting there though. i know platform camping isnt just sitting there on one platform, but instead moving around and not remaining on the same platform height as your opponent. If he gets a grab and you fall off the platform you have to remember that so long as his dthrow remains stale it extends the range where the cg can be started. All the same, i still believe that the position wario desires is to be directly below you and so going up on platforms isnt the best of ideas.

 

[_Kain_]

he gets to charge his waft while you're sitting there though. i know platform camping isnt just sitting there on one platform, but instead moving around and not remaining on the same platform height as your opponent. If he gets a grab and you fall off the platform you have to remember that so long as his dthrow remains stale it extends the range where the cg can be started. All the same, i still believe that the position wario desires is to be directly below you and so going up on platforms isnt the best of ideas.

Waft has always been the kinda move i see as you make a mistake and you die, therefore u deserve to get hit by it since you made the wrong the decision. Of course Wario has ways of makin you make that wrong decision. And yes his uair is also deadly but after that thats all. Idk people's views of platform camping are different. I just use it to switch lvls if like he gets close n drop back down once I see an opening. If he tries to fight me up close again is when i try to run away back to the platform but other than that I stay leveled with him n fight a regular fight. It's only when I see him trying to AD inside and get inside that I start to try and run. But other than that he has no real way of getting inside. But yeah I agree just sitting on the platform is no good it's jus like being a fish out of water, but at least at times it will save you from the CG and its more like in n out instead of standing there, its mostly just to get a reaction out of him

 

[MegaRobMan]

I've beaten a few good Pikachus, one of them on FD. Wolf destroys Pika in my opinion, just don't get grabbed. Play Pika like you play IC's minus the killing nana first part.

I've beaten a few good Warios, but it's more even and I have never been chaingrabbed by one. So my jury is out on that one.

D3 is a bizitch and can grab me from anywhere. Last night I almost beat Tyser's D3 with Wolf, but he didn't chaingrab me until the final stock.

This is why Luigi is an excellent secondary for Wolf. So long as infinites are banned, luigi is really good against all 3 of those characters (and Sheik).

Anyway, D3 is my vote.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Luigi is a really weird secondary. But I have seen Boss beat Anther so maybe he is good vs Pika. Otherwise, not too useful. He is even with D3 and Wario if I recall correctly.

 

[Choice]

Yea i think luigi would actually be a really good secondary. I think he beats wario but wario can time him out and so then its back to even. Iunno anything about pikachu vs luigi but biglou always tells me that he will take out the pikachu's in bracket for me.

 

[castorpollux]

luigi sucks. he cant punish anyone OOS caz he slides too far

 

[RATED]

IMO I consider Marth or ICs good as 2nd to a wolf main.

I mean ICs can beat Pika , beat DDD, destroy Sheik.

Marth can beat Pika or is even maybe but I think Marth have the Adv. Marth is good against DDD is a even matchup, Marth beats Wario.

 

[Goldenadept]

i'm starting to think diddy is the best 2ndary right now for wolf, at least for me

he does great against all of wolfs bad MU's D3,pika,wario etc

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah, I'm actually picking up Diddy as my 2nd. I've started to use him in friendlies but I'm only using him against these 3 character [who are already rare so I'm pretty going all Wolf all the time].

 

[Laem]

diddy isn't really good vs wario
even at best
and ics dont **** sheik
but these are wofl boards so w/e

i actually applaud a secondary luigi, he indeed does well vs the counters :d
although imo snake beats wolf as well. mu is kinda gay

 

[MegaRobMan]

I used to have Marth as my secondary but it was pretty undeveloped so I stopped playing him. Now that I'm better at the game I'm thinking about repicking up Marth, as he also covers the CP's well, except D3.

 

[Ishiey]

I love how these threads all go off-topic :D

Luigi only works vs D3 if the infinite is banned, and imo Luigi... yeah... what JJ said lol. Marth makes a pretty good secondary in my eyes as well, partially because it's not such a big jump to play Marth after playing Wolf since they handle similarly in many ways. Luigi's pathetic airspeed is so hard to adjust to X_x Diddy... idk, it's probably just me, but I feel like Diddy is overrated against most of the cast because most people that don't main Diddy suck with item control. Snake is another matchup I wouldn't mind having a secondary cover as well... I feel like Snake is particularly troublesome on "neutral" stages, but we can definitely handle him fine on our CP.

 

[Choice]

I think obviously the best 2ndary is MK.

 

[MegaRobMan]

if you always fireball as you approach, Luigi's air-speed isn't an issue (use tornado moar) :-0

But as I said in my first part "So long as infinites are banned"...

 

[Choice]

Luigi is a beast yo. You should have seen my reverse mains match vs biglou. He got so lucky in the actual mm though.

 

[Ishiey]

@ Choice:... yeah. I think it's assumed whenever anyone is talking about best secondaries, it's actually second best after MK

How does Luigi using fireball in the air solve anything @___@ It doesn't against Wolf at least...

 

[Choice]

well, i think it does the same as wolf using lasers in the air to close in on people. Force dodges, force early attacks, get in free %. Just luigi does it in a ghetto way. He has very little lag on fireball though so its like why not?