Is Brawl more balanced than melee? **Take 2**

[da K.I.D.]

Also some matchups are way more devoloped than others. some havent even fully Materialized yet at the highest level of play.

this is very true and very important.

The sonic boards brought in the toon link boards to try and figure out the matchup and only 1 guy had any experience on it whatsoever.

 

[RDK]

so everything in the last 100 pages is good information?

GREAT

I was in the last hundred pages!

that means, contrary to what you always tell me, im putting forth good information...

AWESOME.

If you weren't ******** (which you are, just BTW) you would be able to see that I indeed wasn't referring to you at all, and that I was actually referring to any one of the group of intelligent posters who have contributed to pretty much every singe page in the last 100 or so.

Oddly enough I thought that would have been implied by the very nature of my statement, but no--I have to baby feed you pro-bies every step of the way.

 

[Yuna]

lol I did the same thing. if you expect us to read 100 pages of comments before contributing what the purpose of the thread is, you're sadly mistaken.

You didn't even read a single post before contributing and you contributing nothing but your opinion. Now, it's fine to contribute with one's opinion, but it is also prudent to at least back up one's opinion with any kind of facts instead of just saying "I believe Brawl is more balance".

Well, good for you. Why should this matter to the debate? Why do you believe Brawl is more balanced? On what do you base your opinion/stance? People waltzing in here stating their opinion flat out without any facts to support themselves or even an elaboration of their stance (as in anything more than just "Brawl is more balanced!") do not really contribute anything to the debate or the thread.

my definition of balanced is a game where all players can compete at an equal level despite the characters of their opponents. Brawl contains too many infinites cgs and dreadful final smashes to be "balanced"

This is a start.

masmasher: speaking of lack of logic, it's highly impractical to read thousands of post to make one. that would be pointless. This thread was meant to determine which game was more balanced, and a "vote" counts as contribution. to say that I do not know what I am talking about is to condemn yourself as it is foolish to toss around insults without base or reason to support them. If you spend hours before every post you make on a thread that's fine by me, but don't expect others to and insult them if they do not as it is not a good management of time or wit.

Not really, after approximately 100 pages, a "vote"-post counts as spam. You're not helping us determine which game is more balance by simply "voting". This is a fact based debate, not an opinion poll.

Also, if you don't bother to read back even one page when there's been almost 100 pages written on the subject (+ the thread that came before it), chances are, the stuff you're about to say isn't new. It will already have been said a jillion times over, possibly already refuted a jillion times over.

No, waltzing into a thread that has close to 100 pages (at the time of your first post in this thread) and writing a 1-sentence blurb with no facts to back yourself up is not contributing, it is spamming.

Stuff.

What is game balance (especially the "balance" spoken of in the OP and subsequently debated in this thread? The overall/total sum of balance between each and every character in the game in relation to every other character in the game.

So it is not merely the number of viable characters but also the number of viable characters in relation to the number of unviablbe characters + the overall balance between every single character, viable or unviable. When comparing two games' balance, we have to first weigh every character in each game against every other character in the same game.

so everything in the last 100 pages is good information?

This was not what he said. Even as a joke, this falls flat because you are, as usual, strawmanning someone/hallucinating/making **** up.

Neither of the games are balanced. There's the on topic for ya.

Irrelevant.

So far, in brawl, there are more characters that have the potential to win a tournament than Melee.

No there's not. Then again, you most probably believe Peach is a viable character with the potential to win major tournaments.

 

[da K.I.D.]

doesnt edrees/azen/nikok win tourneys with peach?

also how am i strawmanning if im asking him about the meaning of his post?

all i did was ask a clarification question and than state my pre-emptive response to one possible answer to that question...

you guys get bent wayyyy too easily.

@RDK
and just like yuna would say, if you dont want your crap nitpicked at and refuted, make sure the crap you put out there right to begin with. I think thats fair. regardless of what you believe, i think Yuna would agree (since shes said it before) that you shouldnt talk around people like that if you dont want all the tiny details of your shiz picked apart, because you know what they are going to do.

 

[ShadowLink84]

doesnt edrees/azen/nikok win tourneys with peach?

Have you ever noticed how the are usually the best within those tournaments?
There are not many high level pros of that caliber running around either.

@RDK
and just like yuna would say, if you dont want your crap nitpicked at and refuted, make sure the crap you put out there right to begin with. I think thats fair. regardless of what you believe, i think Yuna would agree (since shes said it before) that you shouldnt talk around people like that if you dont want all the tiny details of your shiz picked apart, because you know what they are going to do.

You're not even refuting anything kid. You're simply pointing out things that have no relevance,

in short, you're acting like an *** and its unnecessary and a waste of time.
The very fact that you have even gone so far as to lie about Yuna in your sig should say something.

Its not an issue on how you are saying things, its the issue on what you are saying.
Read all your posts in the last few pages, can you honestly say that you are contributing to the discussion?
Or that you have willfully admitted being wrong, or admitted faults in your argument, or actually refuted the statements of Yuna or Irarby?

 

[Yuna]

doesnt edrees/azen/nikok win tourneys with peach?

Major tournaments? Azen does not win major tournaments as Peach. He uses Peach, but he discards her for certain matchups and he's never won a major tournament using Peach. Neither has any other Peach as far as I know.

Winning your local biweeklies or whatever means nothing.

also how am i strawmanning if im asking him about the meaning of his post?

You didn't ask. You implied... by making entirely inappropriate assumptions.

and just like yuna would say, if you dont want your crap nitpicked at and refuted, make sure the crap you put out there right to begin with. I think thats fair. regardless of what you believe, i think Yuna would agree (since shes said it before) that you shouldnt talk around people like that if you dont want all the tiny details of your shiz picked apart, because you know what they are going to do.

Didn't I already warn you not to refer to me as a woman before and repeated offenses would be classified as harassment and reported?

 

[Brinzy]

da K.I.D. just makes me laugh hard at this point. I'm not sure if it's his style of response or if the stuff he says is just that ****ing hilarious.

 

[Banee]

What is game balance (especially the "balance" spoken of in the OP and subsequently debated in this thread? The overall/total sum of balance between each and every character in the game in relation to every other character in the game.

So it is not merely the number of viable characters but also the number of viable characters in relation to the number of unviablbe characters + the overall balance between every single character, viable or unviable. When comparing two games' balance, we have to first weigh every character in each game against every other character in the same game.

I'm not sure if you misquoted, but if this is directed at me it doesnt answer anything. You simply stated your definition of balance. You did not provide proof that your definition of balance is better than anyone else's. The fact is, you cannot prove beyond a doubt that your definition is better than anyone elses.

I claim that balance is only a useful term if it amounts to greater variety (and thus depth) in top level competition. As a result, it doesn't matter how many characters exist in the game, as top level competition only concerns itself with those that are viable. Those that are unviable may as well not exist for purposes of adding variety to top level play. Thus, a game with greater variety at top level competition (or in other words, a greater number of viable characters) is more balanced than a game with less, irregardless of the total number of characters that exist in the game.

Since you shared your idea on what balance means, I shared mine. I'm not contradicting your idea of balance or implying that its wrong, just showing that we disagree. We both have good reasons for disagreeing. Despite that, you cannot prove conclusively that mine is inferior to yours and thus the debate should be held to your idea of balance. As a result, we cant really debate the topic of balance since we do not agree on what the word means.

I hope that helped to clear up any confusion if there was any.

Edit: pasted the exact quote to avoid confusion. I assume it was directed at me, since it was directly under his quote of me.

 

[ShadowLink84]

meh I've grown tired of it. At first, it was entertaining but its just annoying at this point.
Of course he could be trolling.

Raphael what is your opinion on the subject at hand?
Melee or brawl?
Which is more balanced currently?

@banee: What post are you referring to exactly?

 

[Brinzy]

Well it's going to be yet another opinion just tossed out there, but while I'm not at a definite answer yet, I'm leaning towards Melee.

 

[AfroQT]

If you weren't ******** (which you are, just BTW) you would be able to see that I indeed wasn't referring to you at all, and that I was actually referring to any one of the group of intelligent posters who have contributed to pretty much every singe page in the last 100 or so.

Oddly enough I thought that would have been implied by the very nature of my statement, but no--I have to baby feed you pro-bies every step of the way.

WTF is no one else reading this Legends post?
Seriously everytime this guy posts its amazing.

EDIT:
I can tell Yuna regrets naming himself Yuna due to the whole guy/girl thing.

 

[ShadowLink84]

EDIT:
I can tell Yuna regrets naming himself Yuna due to the whole guy/girl thing.

I think its more the issue on people like kid intentionally calling him a she in spite of being corrected multiple times.

 

[Yuna]

I'm not sure if you misquoted, but if this is directed at me it doesnt answer anything. You simply stated your definition of balance. You did not provide proof that your definition of balance is better than anyone else's. The fact is, you cannot prove beyond a doubt that your definition is better than anyone elses.

No, I said that "my" definition of game balance is the one most relevant to the current debate. Why? Because I instigated this debate back in January of 2008. I created a thread for it where I outlined exactly what was to be discussed.

That thread was eventually abandoned (possible also locked) and then later revived by The Halloween Captain with the explicit purpose of carrying on where the old thread left off.

I claim that balance is only a useful term if it amounts to greater variety (and thus depth) in top level competition. As a result, it doesn't matter how many characters exist in the game, as top level competition only concerns itself with those that are viable. Those that are unviable may as well not exist for purposes of adding variety to top level play. Thus, a game with greater variety at top level competition (or in other words, a greater number of viable characters) is more balanced than a game with less, irregardless of the total number of characters that exist in the game.

No, then you speak of the balance between the viable characters, not the overall balance of the game, the balance discussed here.

WTF is no one else reading this Legends post?
Seriously everytime this guy posts its amazing.

EDIT:
I can tell Yuna regrets naming himself Yuna due to the whole guy/girl thing.

da K.I.D. knows I am a man. I have pointed this out to him several times. He has at least once stated that he does not wish to refer to me as a man and prefers instead of (and I can only assume it is out of spite and to harass me) refer to me as a woman.

A report has been filed for obvious reasons.

 

[AfroQT]

EDIT: Whoops Yuna clarified mah badddd

 

[JesiahTEG]

Afro you're still awake? Go to bed son. xD

 

[Mic_128]

Honestly, this is going NOWHERE and is full of more *****ing and fighting than a female dog-fight convention.

It will never be proved which will be more balance, and everyone has their own opinion which they take to be fact and ignore everyone elses, usually with snide, nasty replies that don't do anything except bring on the flames and turn this even more into a cesspool.