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Ivysaur Tactical Discussion
- Thread starter TheReflexWonder
- Start date
Toby.
Smash Master
S.D
Smash Master
Oh we were talking about off stage?
I just meant in general.
Money match it is Toby <3
Edit: btw what's the best way to get out of bullet seed. It seems imbalanced.
I just meant in general.
Money match it is Toby <3
Edit: btw what's the best way to get out of bullet seed. It seems imbalanced.
Toby.
Smash Master
You should aim to DI the part that launches you upwards (before the seeds start hitting). I've had heaps of people accidentally DI straight out behind me just because they were pressing sideways due to dancing blade or running, etc.
If you get hit you should double stick/quarter circle DI up and to the closest safe diagonal.
Shaya knows all about getting out of bullet seed as fast as possible
If you get hit you should double stick/quarter circle DI up and to the closest safe diagonal.
Shaya knows all about getting out of bullet seed as fast as possible
S.D
Smash Master
So you should aim to DI the startup behind Ivy?
Then when I get stuck and am about to receive a PK flash to the face quarter circle up and away like a madman.
K thanks, although tbh I thought you'd be the last person to answer my question
Then when I get stuck and am about to receive a PK flash to the face quarter circle up and away like a madman.
K thanks, although tbh I thought you'd be the last person to answer my question
Toby.
Smash Master
Haha the only person I've ever refused to give anti pokemon trainer advice to is ILAG. Im always telling shaya about weak points in my characters (i even told him about marths 0-death on squirtle ) and he's basically the Gary to my Ash, so to speak.
The way I see it if I play opponents who know the matchup well I'll get better as a result.
Anyway, technically DI'ing the initial launch is fine regardless of which horizontal direction you choose, its just that behind ivy is usually easiest because you are often already holding that direction in order to attack.
) and he's basically the Gary to my Ash, so to speak. The way I see it if I play opponents who know the matchup well I'll get better as a result.
Anyway, technically DI'ing the initial launch is fine regardless of which horizontal direction you choose, its just that behind ivy is usually easiest because you are often already holding that direction in order to attack.
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
Marth's grab release is almost as gay as he is. Our poor little ninja turtle can't handle gayness like that.
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
But we're not talking about Squirt here. Ivy's edge game is the best of the three thanks to vine whip's lagless edge grab. Pants is the best Ivy in the world and he's what inspired my Ivy spirit. We should try our best with Ivy to prove that she'd not bad at all.
Eljin
Smash Ace
Jus checked out frames 4 Ivy and I been doin it b4 this but sh bair to neutral b **** all the time. TEH INVISIBLE FORCE PROTECTS YOU!!!
^^
|||
random I kno -*~
^^
|||
random I kno -*~
RazeveX
Smash Ace
Is it just me, or does squirtle transform to ivy bullet seed work way too well?
Like, if someone is running to punish, or mistimes an attack, which happens a lot because of disc reading speed variables.
Like, if someone is running to punish, or mistimes an attack, which happens a lot because of disc reading speed variables.
BurtonEarny
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2008
- Messages
- 579
never tried it really, except once when I perfect shielded after transforming to bullet seed. It felt GOOD
.Question about nuetral air... How do you work it into your game? I cant seem to hit with it without trading hits with my opponents move... I usually try to set it up just to have it fail.
Exia 00
Smash Champion
I force my opponent to approach me with SH razor leaf. When your opponent tries to close in, throw a Nair into the mix. It works for me. Just don't over use it. Next time he will expect a Nair so remember to switch it up.
Phiddlesticks
Smash Lord
Platforms make it a lot easier to land (full hopped) nairs. Full hopped nairs are really cool in general actually. Nair oos (either full hopped or short hopped) can also work sometimes, depending on the character and the attack you shielded of course. If you are on the ledge and the opponent gets too close, a ledge hopped or ledge jumped nair is very nice.
Eljin
Smash Ace
full hop fair 2 bullet seed drift backward 4 the fake out. situational but ppl try to take advantage of the lag from fair. mindgame
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Whoa... this is new to me. What is it, a grab-release thing?Marth's grab release is almost as gay as he is. Our poor little ninja turtle can't handle gayness like that.
Toby.
Smash Master
Marth has an inescapable air release chain grab on squirtle that leads to a 100% guaranteed tippered dair spike once he reaches the end of the level. If you are on shadow moses he just substitutes the dair for an upsmash. Marth can also get a tippered fsmash out of it in certain conditions.
It makes the matchup almost impossible. The only real hope is to camp near ledges that squirtle will land on to cancel the release grab. Battlefield, for example.
It makes the matchup almost impossible. The only real hope is to camp near ledges that squirtle will land on to cancel the release grab. Battlefield, for example.
Magik0722
Smash Champion
I found this out today in training mode maybe can confirm if it really is a combo or not
do a full hopped nair, ater the nair mash the jump button until you get a footstool, when you get the footstool use an up air to cancel the footstool and then land next to the opponent, when you land bullet seed
works at very low percentages and only against heavyweights
i did it against a snake
do a full hopped nair, ater the nair mash the jump button until you get a footstool, when you get the footstool use an up air to cancel the footstool and then land next to the opponent, when you land bullet seed
works at very low percentages and only against heavyweights
i did it against a snake
Ryusuta
Smash Master
I remember that someone had devised a ground break for Yoshi's chain grab. I wonder if it would work for escaping this as well.
Magik0722
Smash Champion
Even without that chaingrab marth just counters squirtle badly, easy soltion just switch
Miles.
Smash Champion
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Not necessarily. I haven't tried this particular combo, but I know you can't reliably DI out of Yoshi's down air to footstool. you might be right, since his neutral air sends them at a different angle, but there's a chance this could work.
Canvasofgrey
Smash Ace
Depends I think. If you can follow their DI when doing Nair, then it might work, I'ma test it out later.
Miles.
Smash Champion
Ivysaur is really ****.
Eljin
Smash Ace
*turns up nose nd frowns up face* I, second the notion.
Wii4Mii 99
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2007
- Messages
- 1,859
I assume this should go in Ivysaur Tactical Discussion...but anywho...
So I'm in Training mode, messing around, probably trying to look for that one Charizard AT that we know is out there somewhere.
So yeah, I was Ivysaur at the moment (the stage was Corneria BTW), randomly messing around with Instant Tethering. You know that fin that people combo opponents off of, right? Well...how should I put this?
Okay, so you know where player 3 starts on Corneria, right? (Go to training mode, put a player 3, and see where he starts) Okay, so you have to be right there. From there, if you jump and immediately (I mean immediately) use Up-B, Ivysaur will attempt to tether the fin's edge. What will happen, you see, is Ivysaur will like "teleport" (not really) to the fin's edge almost instantly upon tethering. However, he won't grab on to the edge; instead, he'll be airborne for maybe a little less than half a second. (I'm not good with my times and whatnot, but you can actually see Ivysaur in his airborne falling animation before he grabs onto the edge. You can easily do an aerial before he would grab the edge)
So yeah, the aerial. I thought doing this would be useful for a suprise on an opponent who is about to grab the fin's edge...maybe a U-air or something?
Really, the timing and location is everything. If you don't do it fast enough (or if you're too close) , Ivysaur will just use Up-B in the air. If you're too far back, Ivy will tether the edge, but won't teleport to it; instead, he'll sorta like land where player 1 would start on Corneria.
I have no way to record this...I apologize for any inconvenience that may occur. The most I can hope for is that one of you can understand what I'm trying to say, so that others may start to as well.
Here's something easier to understand; you know how Ivysaur ascends a little when he instant tethers? What you do is press down (gently) at the peak so he lets go of the edge. Then you double jump and could Up-B or U-air an opponent.
So yeah...there's my conbtribution to this metagame. If you don't understand what I'm trying to get across, I will try my hardest to further explain.
So I'm in Training mode, messing around, probably trying to look for that one Charizard AT that we know is out there somewhere.
So yeah, I was Ivysaur at the moment (the stage was Corneria BTW), randomly messing around with Instant Tethering. You know that fin that people combo opponents off of, right? Well...how should I put this?
Okay, so you know where player 3 starts on Corneria, right? (Go to training mode, put a player 3, and see where he starts) Okay, so you have to be right there. From there, if you jump and immediately (I mean immediately) use Up-B, Ivysaur will attempt to tether the fin's edge. What will happen, you see, is Ivysaur will like "teleport" (not really) to the fin's edge almost instantly upon tethering. However, he won't grab on to the edge; instead, he'll be airborne for maybe a little less than half a second. (I'm not good with my times and whatnot, but you can actually see Ivysaur in his airborne falling animation before he grabs onto the edge. You can easily do an aerial before he would grab the edge)
So yeah, the aerial. I thought doing this would be useful for a suprise on an opponent who is about to grab the fin's edge...maybe a U-air or something?
Really, the timing and location is everything. If you don't do it fast enough (or if you're too close) , Ivysaur will just use Up-B in the air. If you're too far back, Ivy will tether the edge, but won't teleport to it; instead, he'll sorta like land where player 1 would start on Corneria.
I have no way to record this...I apologize for any inconvenience that may occur. The most I can hope for is that one of you can understand what I'm trying to say, so that others may start to as well.
Here's something easier to understand; you know how Ivysaur ascends a little when he instant tethers? What you do is press down (gently) at the peak so he lets go of the edge. Then you double jump and could Up-B or U-air an opponent.
So yeah...there's my conbtribution to this metagame. If you don't understand what I'm trying to get across, I will try my hardest to further explain.
Caasi11
Smash Cadet
^ Try recording it using the replay feature and sending it out to somebody with a capture device via "Send" option in the "Replay" menu (you need each other's Brawl FC + Wii FC, though). I remember IRL doing putting up replay vids for people who sent them to him before, so ask him to post the vid for you. >_>
A late N-Air that doesn't land the final hit puts the opponent in the air and a decent amount of hitstun. I'm sure it's not guaranteed, but late N-Air -> jump -> footstool -> U-Air (to push yourself down to the opponent) has cool potential.
After the U-Air, a Bullet Seed seems obvious and guaranteed. I wonder if you could even chain repeated N-Air -> footstools together. You may be able to attempt to techchase and land a U-Smash that way.
SCREAM AT ME, REVIVE THIS THREAD
After the U-Air, a Bullet Seed seems obvious and guaranteed. I wonder if you could even chain repeated N-Air -> footstools together. You may be able to attempt to techchase and land a U-Smash that way.
SCREAM AT ME, REVIVE THIS THREAD
HEY REFLEX
the only reason i would think that wouldn't work is if the opponent can act out of the footstool before you can out of the uair. it may be dependent on the height, the higher up you footstool, the better your chance at catching up and punishing.
the only reason i would think that wouldn't work is if the opponent can act out of the footstool before you can out of the uair. it may be dependent on the height, the higher up you footstool, the better your chance at catching up and punishing.
Well, when the opponent is at mid-to-high percentages, the N-Air hits tend to send them higher up. Maybe it's plausible at higher percents?
yeah. we need to test this. i'll play around with it in a bit.
i'm thinking we should test out what ivysaur has guaranteed out of air releases...(probably not much). and same for squirtle since getting a grab on the edge is pretty simple with the little guy. i'm almost positive that squirtle has a free fair on MK off the ledge...
i'm thinking we should test out what ivysaur has guaranteed out of air releases...(probably not much). and same for squirtle since getting a grab on the edge is pretty simple with the little guy. i'm almost positive that squirtle has a free fair on MK off the ledge...
SuSa
Banned via Administration
You can follow SDI and you don't need to hit with the entire thing.
Also............ I love Ivysaur <3 such a great spacing game... stupid... fire attacks... :/
Also............ I love Ivysaur <3 such a great spacing game... stupid... fire attacks... :/
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Lol, I'm a genius.... :3
Also about grab releases, I think a ton of people (every char board that can force air releases <_< which is everyone at the edge...) needs to test air releases on:
MK
Ganon
Wolf
Falco
Bowser
Sheik
Squirtle (yeah it sucks :/)
There might be 1-2 more.... anyone that Snake can grab release chaingrab should be able to get hit by an aerial. (Since MK is really hard to grab release, and Marth has guarenteed aerials on him)
Also about grab releases, I think a ton of people (every char board that can force air releases <_< which is everyone at the edge...) needs to test air releases on:
MK
Ganon
Wolf
Falco
Bowser
Sheik
Squirtle (yeah it sucks :/)
There might be 1-2 more.... anyone that Snake can grab release chaingrab should be able to get hit by an aerial. (Since MK is really hard to grab release, and Marth has guarenteed aerials on him)
Toby.
Smash Master
I hate it how snake/almost everyone can air release chain grab squirtle.
I hate it so much.
I hate it so much.
Ivysaur's grab-release...
Well, with the invincibility frames, can't we force a ground release and Bullet Seed to beat any sort of offensive option they attempt?
D-Tilt comes out in four frames, which is solid and also beats grab attempts without the risk of Smash DI screwing anything up.
Also, if they're released close to you, Vine Whip hits on frame 22-25, which will punish any spotdodge...we should test this stuff. Maybe it sweetspots some taller characters? I know the sweetspot is still there even before it stretches out...
Well, with the invincibility frames, can't we force a ground release and Bullet Seed to beat any sort of offensive option they attempt?
D-Tilt comes out in four frames, which is solid and also beats grab attempts without the risk of Smash DI screwing anything up.
Also, if they're released close to you, Vine Whip hits on frame 22-25, which will punish any spotdodge...we should test this stuff. Maybe it sweetspots some taller characters? I know the sweetspot is still there even before it stretches out...
well they could just shield the bullet seed. and predicting the shield and punishing it isn't really an option with frame 13 grabs all around.
i'm thinking vine whip might be able to hit some characters, yeah.
we probably don't have guaranteed options against most characters, so what i'd do is just toss out a razor leaf and try to predict what they do. particularly off stage.
i'm thinking vine whip might be able to hit some characters, yeah.
we probably don't have guaranteed options against most characters, so what i'd do is just toss out a razor leaf and try to predict what they do. particularly off stage.