Japanese Tier List

[Spelt]

Also, Japan has the right idea on Peach.

LOL.
She's only 2 spots lower than on our list.

Terrible.

 

[phi1ny3]

Their sheiks are pretty good. Back when Earth used to use her, he would use Zelda pretty often actually.

Cross and Daiki don't though

 

[Meru.]

LOL.
She's only 2 spots lower than on our list.

Terrible.

He commented on the previous version of the tier list. She was 22nd there.

 

[Merkuri]

Fox above Marth and Wario! Really?

 

[Ghostbone]

Well it makes sense, I don't know if they even have any high level Wario or Marth mains.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Someone needs to tell Japan Sonic is C tier.

 

[phi1ny3]

Mikeneko is their best Martha main kitchen. He's getting pretty good.

I think there's one guy who uses wario, but I don't remember his name

 

[#HBC | Scary]

If I'm not mistaken, that Wario is Yukhoe.

 

[C.J.]

Mikeneko is their best Martha main kitchen. He's getting pretty good.

I think there's one guy who uses wario, but I don't remember his name

MikeNeko isn't "getting" pretty good. He's on the same level as Mike and Ramin.

If I'm not mistaken, that Wario is Yukhoe.

Yukhoe is the Wario- however he's mostly known for his doubles play AFAIK

 

[Kuro~]

There's another wario...i think he goes by the name kaito or something like that.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kaito hasn't entered singles ... I don't know for how long.

 

[Kuro~]

K.

10kays

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Kaito is a cool guy... uses the tag of my favorite anime character (or at least part of his name)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Someone needs to tell the people who think Sonic is C tier to fall down a well.

 

[Kinzer]

Someone needs to tell the people who think Sonic is C tier to fall down a well.

You first. *Bows head and swings arms to the side.*

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Except I don't think Sonic is C tier?

 

[Baskerville]

Ganon actually winning tourneys? =0
Mad respect to Japanese players.

 

[Kinzer]

Except I don't think Sonic is C tier?

I forgot to say "please," but in any case:

Well okay, maybe it was more of a cynical remark but still.

Oh wait~, whose C-tier are we talking here?

S: Meta Knight
A: Diddy Kong, Snake, Falco
B: Marth, Wario, Ice Climbers, Olimar, Pikachu
C: Lucario, King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Mr. Game & Watch, Toon Link
D: Fox, Wolf, Peach
E: Donkey Kong, Kirby, R.O.B., Pit, Sonic
F: Ike, Sheik/Zelda, Luigi, Sheik, Ness, Yoshi, Pokémon Trainer
G: Lucas, Mario, Bowser, Samus, Captain Falcon
H: Link, Jigglypuff, Zelda, Ganondorf

This... is a bit difficult to make a case out of, even as a devil's advocate.

Ｓ＋　　Metaknight

Ｓ　　　Ice Climbers

Ａ＋　　Olimar　Diddy　Falco　Snake　Fox

Ａ　　　Pit　Wario　Marth　Dedede　Zero Suit Samus

Ｂ　　　Toon Link　Robot　Lucario　Zelda and Sheik　Game and Watch

Ｃ　　　Donkey Kong　Peach　Wolf　Kirby　Pikachu　Ike

Ｄ　　　Lucas　Mario　Sonic

Ｅ　　　Luigi　Bowser　Yoshi　Ness

Ｆ　　　Ganondorf　Pokemon Trainer

Ｇ　　　Captain Falcon　Link　Samus

Ｈ　　　Jigglypuff

This on the other hand seems more realistic.

... Except WTF is Pikachu doing down there? Totally different metagame man, or Japan must not have any Pikachus... or both.

 

[Kuro~]

Japan has pikas. It's probably cuz 2 of pikas more difficult mu are quite famous in japan(oli/ic)

 

[Volt_Storm_7]

Japan has pikas. It's probably cuz 2 of pikas more difficult mu are quite famous in japan(oli/ic)

Those two mus are our hardest match ups, especially in Japan. We have a harder time trying to take down those two plus mk. I'm trying to reevaluate the mus so that we can progress over here. =.

 

[Kuro~]

Those two mus are our hardest match ups, especially in Japan. We have a harder time trying to take down those two plus mk. I'm trying to reevaluate the mus so that we can progress over here. =.

Ya i feel you man. You should talk to some other pika mains and discuss it. Pit boards are always evaluating new strats, approaches, ideas and mu theories. It's helped quite a few people out. We even managed to get wario down to a slight disadvantage instead of a large disadvantage after exploring the mu quite a bit.

 

[Jellyfishn]

I find Japan's results very interesting.... and as far as actually sucking, I think Jiggs does suck more than Ganon. We just have more Jiggs in the states that are placing better than Ganons....?

Anyway, thanks for posting this. I actually can speak Japanese since I lived there for a couple years, and may be going back over this summer, but is there anyway to get on smacom if you don't have a Japanese cell phone E-mail address?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

This... is a bit difficult to make a case out of, even as a devil's advocate.



This on the other hand seems more realistic.

... Except WTF is Pikachu doing down there? Totally different metagame man, or Japan must not have any Pikachus... or both.

Are you saying Japan has a more realistic tier list?

~

I really disagree with Fox that high even in Japan.

 

[Dre89]

I find Japan's results very interesting.... and as far as actually sucking, I think Jiggs does suck more than Ganon. We just have more Jiggs in the states that are placing better than Ganons....?

Anyway, thanks for posting this. I actually can speak Japanese since I lived there for a couple years, and may be going back over this summer, but is there anyway to get on smacom if you don't have a Japanese cell phone E-mail address?

I thought Ganon had better results in the US, and Jiggs and Bowser had the worst results there.

Imo Jiggs is better than Ganon when played optimally. Jiggs can run away and time people out, that alone makes it better than Ganon.

Ganon is only really dangerous when you don't know the mu or are aggressive.

Just standing there and waiting for Ganon to do something pretty much counters him. He has no good horizontal hitboxes from a neutral position apart from sideb, downb and iDA. The former two are avoidable on reaction, and iDA is really unsafe on shield unless it's done on an opponent on the edge or on a platform.

Jiggs at least has the aerial mobility to bait a response when its approaching, and pound can do serious damage to shields.

I just think Ganon seems better to people because optimal play with Jiggs is boring so it probably isn't done often, and Ganon's punishes are much simpler to execute.

 

[Flayl]

Hey there's a low tier project right here in this forum where you can check how the low tiers are doing without having to make random guesses about it.

Jigglypuff has the worst results without a high tier backup.

 

[Volt_Storm_7]

Are you saying Japan has a more realistic tier list?

~

I really disagree with Fox that high even in Japan.

You can disagree all you like, but foxes slay mks here. end of story.

I find Japan's results very interesting.... and as far as actually sucking, I think Jiggs does suck more than Ganon. We just have more Jiggs in the states that are placing better than Ganons....?

Anyway, thanks for posting this. I actually can speak Japanese since I lived there for a couple years, and may be going back over this summer, but is there anyway to get on smacom if you don't have a Japanese cell phone E-mail address?

No,there isn't. You have to either have Docomo, Softbank, or AU email address. The worst part is that you have to confirm through phone's email to activate account.

Ya i feel you man. You should talk to some other pika mains and discuss it. Pit boards are always evaluating new strats, approaches, ideas and mu theories. It's helped quite a few people out. We even managed to get wario down to a slight disadvantage instead of a large disadvantage after exploring the mu quite a bit.

I tried, but Esam apparently told them that you should technically just lose, on purspose. Nobody seems to want to progress in there in those mus. They're winnable and I'm finding the tools to get there. I'm currently training for Sunrise Tournament, which is Japan's largest national and is hosting money. Trying to get this experience is tough, especially since not many are concentrated in my area. I'll be posting info in March about SRT, which is in august and extra info, such as hotels, housing (suggested by Suinoko), and etc. So please, do come. Japan wants a fight, not a few to come and make the minimal upset. We want UPSETS. We want ACTION. We don't want your ~ eer, wait a sec. Why I am still here. kudos

 

[Kuro~]

You can disagree all you like, but foxes slay mks here. end of story.




No,there isn't. You have to either have Docomo, Softbank, or AU email address. The worst part is that you have to confirm through phone's email to activate account.



I tried, but Esam apparently told them that you should technically just lose, on purspose. Nobody seems to want to progress in there in those mus. They're winnable and I'm finding the tools to get there. I'm currently training for Sunrise Tournament, which is Japan's largest national and is hosting money. Trying to get this experience is tough, especially since not many are concentrated in my area. I'll be posting info in March about SRT, which is in august and extra info, such as hotels, housing (suggested by Suinoko), and etc. So please, do come. Japan wants a fight, not a few to come and make the minimal upset. We want UPSETS. We want ACTION. We don't want your ~ eer, wait a sec. Why I am still here. kudos

Just curious but how is rain able to host a money tourney? I've been wandering since he annoucned it at apex. I thought it was illegal in japan to have money tourneys? Or is there a process you can go through to get an "ok"?

Also, ya i feel you there. It sucks when people just give up. Sometimes it's logical. However in that specific scenario i could easily see,with effort, the matchup getting better. Esams logic is why? I have IC. At least that's how i see it. He mostly loses game 1 with pika and then proceeds to go IC. I understand his initiative to so. He wants to go as far as possible. But it'd be cool to see a pika rolemodel be more dedicated than that.

Lol i'd jump on SRT right away if i wasn't in extreme debt this semeseter -.- plus i've always wanted to go to japan...it would've of been the perfect opportunity

I really hope it gets the attendance and hype that it deserves though. Is there any talk of fundraising for some players like apex did? Apex got so many ppl out here through fundraising. So it'd be a nice idea if you have specific people you really want to come for hype/representation.

 

[Jellyfishn]

No,there isn't. You have to either have Docomo, Softbank, or AU email address. The worst part is that you have to confirm through phone's email to activate account.

Dang....that stinks.
I will have to ask one of my friends if they will confirm it for me....

As I will probably be going to Japan on internship, I don't know if I will be able to go to SRT or not, but I will try

Jiggs can run away and time people out, that alone makes it better than Ganon.

That makes sense, because it says above the Japanese tier list that matches that are planked or where they just run away are not counted in the tier list. So in their tier list Ganon is better than Jiggs.

 

[Volt_Storm_7]

Just curious but how is rain able to host a money tourney? I've been wandering since he annoucned it at apex. I thought it was illegal in japan to have money tourneys? Or is there a process you can go through to get an "ok"?

Also, ya i feel you there. It sucks when people just give up. Sometimes it's logical. However in that specific scenario i could easily see,with effort, the matchup getting better. Esams logic is why? I have IC. At least that's how i see it. He mostly loses game 1 with pika and then proceeds to go IC. I understand his initiative to so. He wants to go as far as possible. But it'd be cool to see a pika rolemodel be more dedicated than that.

Lol i'd jump on SRT right away if i wasn't in extreme debt this semeseter -.- plus i've always wanted to go to japan...it would've of been the perfect opportunity

I really hope it gets the attendance and hype that it deserves though. Is there any talk of fundraising for some players like apex did? Apex got so many ppl out here through fundraising. So it'd be a nice idea if you have specific people you really want to come for hype/representation.

It's illegal to gamble, such as money matching( unless you do it under the table ;. ). As for the tourney, I don't know about the coordination of the money thing. I'd believe that it's legal, i guess, regardless of the rule in japan.

 

[Rykard]

jiggs is just a worse version of a bunch of other characters so there is technically no real reason to play her

 

[*CT*]

Are you saying Japan has a more realistic tier list?

~

I really disagree with Fox that high even in Japan.

Yeah even if this statement is true (I agree with it but I also agree that Fox shouldn't be that high)
"You can disagree all you like, but foxes slay mks here. end of story."

As well has Fox having relatively decent MUs vs a large portion of Top/High Tier characters, it is true.

It's not just about one MU though, if it was then shouldn't Fox be equal to MK then?

Fox mains always have a secondary (If not I give them respect and they need to teach me their ways) because of the two insanely difficult MUs (Pika/ICs); the Shiek MU imo isn't as hard as the other two.

Due to these hard counters/MUs I believe that Fox should be around 9th-12th on the tier list.

EDIT: I still try playing out the Pika/IC MU from time to time so I know how one-sided it can be, succeeding in sets including those MUs takes unneeded effort.
EDIT2: Imo he is under-rated and under-represented in NA

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Sheik is higher than Pikachu over there, so for them, the matchup probably is harder.

Edit:

If that makes sense. Which it kinda doesn't. But w/e.

 

[Kinzer]

Are you saying Japan has a more realistic tier list?

~

I really disagree with Fox that high even in Japan.

You misunderstand me, sir.

When I said "more realistic," I mean that within that realm, area, or tier of Japan's list, it is easier to make a case for Sonic to rise above some characters. Whether or not I think Japan's tier list is more accurate is at this time irrelevant (and I can't be bothered to find out which really is more representative of the metagame and what generates some of the discrepancies).

Hell, even I have to admit, I don't think Fox should be so high. You heard it straight from the horse's mouth though, apparently MKs don't know how to handle the MU lose to Foxes on a consistent basis, and ICs/Pika/Sheik don't seem to be around to keep him down (or at least Pika, and probably Sheik too[?].) Don't know about the ICs, last I checked, they do have some people playing them over there. But again, I'm just making observations with what information I have, I'm in no way trying make any disputes, claims, or what have you.

I love to learn. And now seems like a good time to ask since relations and communications with Japan are becoming stronger and more frequent. Why is Sonic below certain characters over though? It can't be the MUs, can it? Does he not have the same representation he does in the US perhaps?

Welp, with all that said, back to college life. Hope this cleared up some things.

 

[TKD]

in a land where you can't ban FD, all foxes have a secondary.
what doesn't make sense is pikachu's placement at 21st, which is probably changing next version anyway.