Judge Rules Nintendo Illegally Protects Systems, Should be Like Windows

[Kuraudo]

I dont know about you guys, but I only became a pirate so I could break the law... now that its legal.. it just....i dont know.... it just doesnt seem worth it........ nothing seems worth it anymore..... im gonna go do my homework.

This was such win. LMAO

 

[Stoney]

This is a pretty terrible comparison. Nintendo isn't purposely bricking Wiis and DSes.

You're comparing killing a man to disabling our means to customize or steal. It's a bad comparison because they don't release updates that brick wiis once finding the HBC. =/

Have you even HEARD about the controversy surrounding Wii System Update 4.2?

Allow me to enlighten you:

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/01/wii-system-update-4-2-bricking-unmodded-consoles/

Wii System Update 4.2 overwrites the Boot2 code in the Wii console, which is what allows BootMii to run. There is literally no reason to do this other than to remove BootMii from the system; the 4.2 update provided no tangible improvements or benefits to consoles without homebrew. It was literally an update custom-made to remove homebrew from Wiis and do nothing else.

Now normally such an update would be fine for all the non-hacked systems out there, except that the code Nintendo used to update Boot2 was so buggy and sloppy that it randomly bricked Wiis without homebrew; there were reports of people buying fresh Wiis from the store, installing the update, and being unable to turn the console on afterwards.

People began posting complaints on Nintendo's official tech support forums about it shortly after the update was released, and the mods there began deleting the posts. Then the mods posted a message saying anyone with a console bricked by the update could get their system repaired by Nintendo for free. Then they removed the message and deleted posts asking about it. Then when people REALLY started raising a stink about it on gaming blogs and news sites, Nintendo came out and claimed that any console bricked by the update must be a hacked console with homebrew, and they would not perform repairs to such consoles for free.

This controversy was big news. A lot of innocent gamers lost the ability to turn their Wiis on for a while. I am really, really surprised that you seem to have not heard about it yet.

I think one great secondary series was Pikmin, but Nintendo never went back to that except to re-release the original with Wii controls.

Pikmin 3 is in development. Miyamoto himself confirmed it at this year's E3. Incidentally, this is why Nintendo re-released the first two games, so all the Wii users who didn't own Gamecubes will be familiar with Olimar when Pikmin 3 comes out (same principle as with Toy Story 1 &2 being re-released to theaters just before Toy Story 3: familiarize new audiences and make extra cash on the side).

They're "going back to that" about as hard as they possibly could right now. Does anybody here besides me follow gaming news? Seriously.

NINTENDO SHOULD RELEASE A LEGITIMIZED VERSION OF GECKO OS

Nintendo will never do this. Contrary to what you think, it is not because they are stupid, or petty, or mean-spirited. They must protect their intellectual property so they can conceivably continue to make money off of it, because otherwise someone would get the bright idea to try selling something like Brawl+ for money, and not pay Nintendo a dime despite using 90% of their work.

Also, I would be highly uncomfortable if someone took sound effects I made and graphics I made, and modified them to use them in, say, a hentai game. Or a **** simulator: I doubt Nintendo would be happy if they saw Princess Peach doing the nasty with Bowser.

Also also, I have no idea how you conceived of the notion that modded games would be more difficult to pirate. All you're doing is applying a patch to an existing ISO; both can be disseminated across the internet easily.



My opinion of Nintendo's business practices...? Meh, they're tightwads. But they've always been that way, ever since they began forbidding third-party companies from making more than a set number of NES games per year and deliberately withheld shipments of cartridges to artificially inflate market demand. It's a conservative business mindset and honestly, it's worked pretty well for them so far.

The way I see it, Nintendo is treating the Wii generation as an opportunity to recoup their financial losses from the Gamecube era. The Wii has been tremendously popular for several years now, so why should Nintendo waste such a business opportunity on new, risky IPs when they could instead keep milking well-established ones that are guaranteed best-sellers?

It's a depressingly ubiquitous tactic used throughout the industry. Developers don't get creative when they're riding waves of success, they continue to use the winning formula that gave them success in the first place. It's only when things turn negative and desperate that companies begin encouraging crazy new stuff, in an attempt to stumble on a blockbuster and make a last-minute save. (R.I.P. Dreamcast, you were awesome.)

 

[Almas]

It feels good to be European right now.

 

[shanus]

Honestly, people are way overhyping this ruling.

Sure, it is a legal precedent, but they can shut down any small groups with a cease & desist in which case you as the payer would be required to showcase in court (and shell out considerable funds to back this). So unless you yourself are a good lawyer, or have considerable funds to pay for a lawyer over a game, and the fact that this precedent isn't even in the US (more robust corporation laws), the impact factor of such a ruling is slim to none.

its good news, but its nothing game changing.

 

[(wfge7)]

up europe
but this is not going to last
so laugh at nintendo while you can
also if you want to complain to nintendo
i just hope you are very good at speaking japanase
sianara

 

[mariorocks64]

If this means that Nintendo will allow a Wii version that allows hacking, then thank god for court justice!

 

[Isatis]

If this means that Nintendo will allow a Wii version that allows hacking, then thank god for court justice!

Wrong...lol

 

[brawlshifter]

luigiman, think of it this way....

if a robber robs your house, and then you're worried he'll do it again, is it legal to find where he lives, go up to his bedroom, and shoot him in the chest 3 times?

Hell no. Trying to protect yourself from something illegal can be illegal in itself.

Well, in this case, only in France. So, in France its illegal to find where he lives and shoot him, but in America its legal? That's not how it is, so in this case, you're wrong-oh wait, no you're not, that's the Ghetto.

Indeed. It makes total sense that they'd want to shut out creativity in the sense of recreating their games.

I would remove the homebrew channel from my wii immediately, and remove all other things that come with it (yes, even BootMii, which is purely beneficial!) if nintendo released a gecko OS version, even just for brawl. It's that simple. Brawl just isn't as fun as Brawl+ or Brawl- (well, when it comes out).

Let's try a little thought experiment.

What percentage of homebrew users use homebrew exclusively for things like Brawl+, BBrawl, homemade chars; in general, brawl hacking?
What percentage of homebrew users come to hacked games over this?
What percentage of homebrew users pirate games?
How many people are more interested in the wii because of brawl+, the homebrew channel, and game modification (not pirating, just changing things) in general?
How many people buy the wii for one or two choice titles?
How many people would be more interested in these titles if they could personalize it, make it weirder and more fun (mario cart items that are more crazy, bizarre luigi physics in NSMB, brawl+, sick as **** songs on Guitar Hero World Tour, which blew, just a few examples (okay, bad example due to DLC, but you get my point!))

Now let's try to look at these percents and figure out exactly how much money nintendo could GAIN through all of this, and how much they lose.

Let's see.

1. How many people would buy this? If they sell a built-in homebrew channel and/or Gecko APP, especially if it has USBGecko-like capabilities, on the shop channel, they could make a lot of money off of that. Or they could just include it just like that, but that wouldn't maximize win. At the same time, it would lower the motivation of people like Team Twiizers who create the hacks for the system patches (and these hacks allow piracy!) because less people would be interested in them. Money win either way for nintendo.
2. More people would be interested in buying the wii. I don't think any gamer who's really looked at it can deny that Wii is the worst console of this generation, and that by a long shot. It still moves a lot of consoles, but the number of original games that are worth getting is low, and the number of original ideas is close to zero. And I don't mean original in the sense "totally new concept" I mean new as in "isn't an utterly ****ed-off franchise". But now imagine if you can take these bizarre franchise games and do crazy **** to them? Boom, instant win. Nintendo has turned itself into a freelance console for people who like their games different-HUGE step from "Let's make mario again and again".
3. More "bad" games move. Let's take a look at some nintendo titles which utterly failed. How many of them could be saved with a patch of some sort? Or a slight retweak of the engine? With this, nintendo could say "screw patching" (they can't do it) and leave it up to the individual. So that means GHWT doesn't have the most ********-*** difficulty curve in the history of GH (yes, 3 was way less stupid believe it or not), some FPSs get improved wiimote support (which they seem to need in some cases). Extend this argument to already very good games, and you can still do great things like tweak the difficulty, make the physics silly, or make the game more competitively fair. So add More "good" games move too.
4. More people develop for the wii. Granted, this is an after-effect of 1 and 2, but think about it. You are a game designer with a good concept and an impressive portfolio and want to bring out this incredible new bestseller. The wii is the console with the worst graphical capabilities, doesn't move as many units, and guess what-you can pirate it. So what if all of a sudden it sells more, can't be pirated as easily, and players can do half the work of balancing your game for you, making it even possible to release a second version of the game very soon after the last, milking the costumer.

TBH there's no reason against this other than developer's pride. It would stop hacking in a lot of cases, make less people ***** about system updates, and make more people buy/develop for the wii. So why not? Well, because nintendo sucks.

Also, it's true. Nintendo has stifled creativity, but at the same time ****ed off the same **** franchises so hard and so long that its figurative **** is ready to fall off. So this is probably the most refreshing and productive thing nintendo could do. Obviously, it will not happen. >.>

You should send that to Nintendo. Seriously, that might make them think. If not you, someone should. Anonymously, if nothing else.

 

[Shadic]

Nobody thinks at this at Nintendo. They have a policy.

Team Twiizers sent Nintendo an email or a letter, I can't remember. It was on how to block piracy on the Wii but leave Homebrew alone. They ignored their advice.

 

[brawlshifter]

Nobody thinks at this at Nintendo. They have a policy.

Team Twiizers sent Nintendo an email or a letter, I can't remember. It was on how to block piracy on the Wii but leave Homebrew alone. They ignored their advice.

Maybe if we keep pressuring them...well, its worth a shot. Most people who talk to Nintendo just tell them to **** off. Nintendo needs more people to give valid, logical reasons, and maybe they'll at least be lighter on us. I'm probably wrong in all this, but I think its worth a shot.

 

[Shadic]

You greatly overestimate the power of the .5% of consumers who even know what Homebrew is.

 

[Isatis]

I didn't thought it'd be that low, considering the words "Nintendo Homebrew Killer Update Breaks Wii's" has shown up on MSNBC headlines...

 

[brawlshifter]

You greatly overestimate the power of the .5% of consumers who even know what Homebrew is.

Well, considering Nintendo directly targets this .5% a lot, and goes to court against it, and makes updates to destroy it, I don't think Nintendo underestimates us, perhaps they are the ones overestimate us. If we can get their attention as much as we already have, they might listen, if enough people can, as I said, give valid, logical reasons instead of telling them to **** off.

 

[leafgreen386]

Well, considering Nintendo directly targets this .5% a lot, and goes to court against it, and makes updates to destroy it, I don't think Nintendo underestimates us, perhaps they are the ones overestimate us. If we can get their attention as much as we already have, they might listen, if enough people can, as I said, give valid, logical reasons instead of telling them to **** off.

Nah. Nintendo greatly underestimates the hacking scene. Look at how many times they've tried to stop it... and look at how successful they've been.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

luigiman, think of it this way....

if a robber robs your house, and then you're worried he'll do it again, is it legal to find where he lives, go up to his bedroom, and shoot him in the chest 3 times?

Hell no. Trying to protect yourself from something illegal can be illegal in itself.

That's illogical cause you can just arrest him. Is that bad? No, since that's exactly how police do things. They even get to abuse power to some extent and get away w/ it a lot of the time.
That court case was trash. If I were Ninty I would stop selling things in Europe since the court is stupid enough to be in favor of pirating. People need to realise all this "Nintendo should add/fix game..." **** is ******** since all Ninty cares about is dat bling. You're dreams about supporting the hardcore fanbase w/ the things you suggest are dead and will not revive until our economy is fixed. Ugh...

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Nintendo will never do this. Contrary to what you think, it is not because they are stupid, or petty, or mean-spirited. They must protect their intellectual property so they can conceivably continue to make money off of it, because otherwise someone would get the bright idea to try selling something like Brawl+ for money, and not pay Nintendo a dime despite using 90% of their work.

Well there's a simple fix for this, I imagine. What Intellectual Property Licenses could fit the niche of "I bring out a product without open source or free licensing, but as long as you own a license, you can modify it as you wish. These modifications may not be sold; the modifications themselves are treated as freeware." Something close to that; I mean, how hard is it to police that the .gcts (and to a lesser extent the changes to .pac files) stay free? If you break that rule and try to sell the hacked end product...

Well lets assume Nintendo follows this idea of allowing the game to be modifiable, brings out SSB4, and someone creates a hack of it which everyone wants, and starts charging for it. What do you do? Duh, you sue him for license violation! Simple as that! It doesn't seem so hard. If the license doesn't exist, make a EULA or a new license. Would fix that problem easily.

Also, I would be highly uncomfortable if someone took sound effects I made and graphics I made, and modified them to use them in, say, a hentai game. Or a **** simulator: I doubt Nintendo would be happy if they saw Princess Peach doing the nasty with Bowser.

How much can you actually do with the HBC now? Even without it on wiis we can get textures, graphics, sound effects, practially anything out of any game. It doesn't matter; if someone had a mind to do that, including a gecko variant wouldn't really change much.

Also also, I have no idea how you conceived of the notion that modded games would be more difficult to pirate. All you're doing is applying a patch to an existing ISO; both can be disseminated across the internet easily.

I didn't. I concieved the notion that the group which hacks the wiis would be less inclined to continue battling the patches, and therefore the whole portion of the hacking world which does it for piracy loses part of their "hacker representation" due to lower demand. This is mostly theoretical, granted, but it makes sense, right?

Nobody thinks at this at Nintendo. They have a policy.

Team Twiizers sent Nintendo an email or a letter, I can't remember. It was on how to block piracy on the Wii but leave Homebrew alone. They ignored their advice.

Well isn't it time we change their minds? I'm going to write a letter up.

You should send that to Nintendo. Seriously, that might make them think. If not you, someone should. Anonymously, if nothing else.

I'd gladly do it. I'd prefer to have some kind of backing on this (AKA I make a thread with the official letter format and try to get as many people on board as possible), but sure. I'll write something up.

The most important part is probably that it's all centered not on our desires, but on how to make them more money. That way, it stands a chance of nintendo actually paying the slightest bit of attention to it.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Well there's a simple fix for this, I imagine. What Intellectual Property Licenses could fit the niche of "I bring out a product without open source or free licensing, but as long as you own a license, you can modify it as you wish. These modifications may not be sold; the modifications themselves are treated as freeware." Something close to that; I mean, how hard is it to police that the .gcts (and to a lesser extent the changes to .pac files) stay free? If you break that rule and try to sell the hacked end product...

Well lets assume Nintendo follows this idea of allowing the game to be modifiable, brings out SSB4, and someone creates a hack of it which everyone wants, and starts charging for it. What do you do? Duh, you sue him for license violation! Simple as that! It doesn't seem so hard. If the license doesn't exist, make a EULA or a new license. Would fix that problem easily.




How much can you actually do with the HBC now? Even without it on wiis we can get textures, graphics, sound effects, practially anything out of any game. It doesn't matter; if someone had a mind to do that, including a gecko variant wouldn't really change much.



I didn't. I concieved the notion that the group which hacks the wiis would be less inclined to continue battling the patches, and therefore the whole portion of the hacking world which does it for piracy loses part of their "hacker representation" due to lower demand. This is mostly theoretical, granted, but it makes sense, right?





Well isn't it time we change their minds? I'm going to write a letter up.



I'd gladly do it. I'd prefer to have some kind of backing on this (AKA I make a thread with the official letter format and try to get as many people on board as possible), but sure. I'll write something up.

The most important part is probably that it's all centered not on our desires, but on how to make them more money. That way, it stands a chance of nintendo actually paying the slightest bit of attention to it.

Let's look at some things:
1. Better graphic processor
2. Improved Online service/ game servers.
3. Bigger hardrive space/ multiple hardware color schemes.

I'm sure Ninty'd make more cash off doing those 3 things. You're suggestions are hardcore favored and do LITTLE help for the casual audience. I bet Ninty would charge you on a regular basis for built-in Homebrew software and most of the casual people would not like that. They want to spend as least money as possible to keep their families pleased. That is why Wii has sold more than PS3 and 360 combined.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

All right. You got me there. But do me a favor... Point me to existing, wii-compatible, and virtually freely accessible (what license is Gecko and the HBC on? I doubt it would bug the creators much if the wii did it anyways) better graphic processors, improved online services and/or game servers, and more hard drive space. Different Color Schemes is one of those things that don't seem to make that much of a difference; then again, who wouldn't want a Black wii? Nintendo wouldn't have much loss at all from this. The programs to install the HBC on the wii are already there; ocarina and gecko are already there, it's just a matter of saying, "Okay, we'll code this into our system". Hell, not even that, just a matter of "okay, we'll make the system boot this thing when it installs".

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

All right. You got me there. But do me a favor... Point me to existing, wii-compatible, and virtually freely accessible (what license is Gecko and the HBC on? I doubt it would bug the creators much if the wii did it anyways) better graphic processors, improved online services and/or game servers, and more hard drive space. Different Color Schemes is one of those things that don't seem to make that much of a difference; then again, who wouldn't want a Black wii? Nintendo wouldn't have much loss at all from this. The programs to install the HBC on the wii are already there; ocarina and gecko are already there, it's just a matter of saying, "Okay, we'll code this into our system". Hell, not even that, just a matter of "okay, we'll make the system boot this thing when it installs".

I assume you mean getting those things by downloading? Ninty can release new hardware that specifically supports the said features I have listed. Sony's done it w/ their slim PS3120G and PS3 slim that's the same but holds a whooping 250G w/ no bigger hardware size. I'd like someone to enlighten me on some news about the HD Wii coming in 2011-2012 (The world is NOT going to end).

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I assume you mean getting those things by downloading? Ninty can release new hardware that specifically supports the said features I have listed. Sony's done it w/ their slim PS3120G and PS3 slim that's the same but holds a whooping 250G w/ no bigger hardware size. I'd like someone to enlighten me on some news about the HD Wii coming in 2011-2012 (The world is NOT going to end).

Missed my point. the new hardware would actually pose a risk (if nobody buys it) to offset reward; there's a price in developing and creating that. Developing and creating a GeckoOS application would, AFAIK, cost nothing. The project is open source and remains open source.

All right. I'm writing the letter, I'll post it here when I'm done. But I need help. First of all, what does USBGecko do, and how abusable is it for pirates/etc? Secondly, seeing as Gecko is licensed under GPL2, if nintendo was to add it to their systems, what source code would they have to open up?

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Missed my point. the new hardware would actually pose a risk (if nobody buys it) to offset reward; there's a price in developing and creating that. Developing and creating a GeckoOS application would, AFAIK, cost nothing. The project is open source and remains open source.

But MY point insist that the hacking software will make Ninty obtain less money than the things I've listed. Not saying they would lose money from supporting hacks but people didn't buy Wiis just because you couldn't hack it. "Why do this, when you can do this?"

All right. I'm writing the letter, I'll post it here when I'm done. But I need help. First of all, what does USBGecko do, and how abusable is it for pirates/etc? Secondly, seeing as Gecko is licensed under GPL2, if nintendo was to add it to their systems, what source code would they have to open up?

Make sure you bring comfort food IF they reply. You're ideas don't support their marketing strategies (which includes supporting the casual crowd). Ofcourse mine are similar but all I'm saying is that they just won't do it. They may do something like it on their own but they don't need to. Plus, why should they recieve such help from the hacking community when we've gotten this far in modifications, we can start doing things on our own. Just buy a game disc and hack it to some extent. And I'm sure that many people have sent letters about "Do this and that" and even "Keep this in mind..." which have failed. Ninty is a strange company.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[DarkDragoon]

USBGecko is a code dumping tool that just drops all the RAM of whatever moment you activate it onto your computer so you can sift through it. It really only applies to the people who make game-shark like codes.

GeckoOS is what pirates use to play burned discs. Although since USBLoaders, less discs have been used, and I only use it to prevent having to take out a Wiimote to load Brawl+ or Melee. But it CAN play pirated games. Obviously though, that feature can be removed.

The GeckoOS source is open for anyone who wants to take it I believe. Just Google around.
-DD

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Make sure you bring comfort food IF they reply. You're ideas don't support their marketing strategies (which includes supporting the casual crowd). Ofcourse mine are similar but all I'm saying is that they just won't do it. They may do something like it on their own but they don't need to. Plus, why should they recieve such help from the hacking community when we've gotten this far in modifications, we can start doing things on our own. Just buy a game disc and hack it to some extent. And I'm sure that many people have sent letters about "Do this and that" and even "Keep this in mind..." which have failed. Ninty is a strange company.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

I so totally don't care. There is a powerful force driving me; one more potent than right and wrong, more potent than the pen, the *****, or the sword... It is BOREDOM.

 

[[TSON]]

GeckoOS is what pirates use to play burned discs. Although since USBLoaders, less discs have been used, and I only use it to prevent having to take out a Wiimote to load Brawl+ or Melee. But it CAN play pirated games. Obviously though, that feature can be removed.

NO IT CAN'T

It has been MODIFIED WITHOUT CHANGING THE NAME to do so. This is why Nuke quit the scene, because everyone associated him and his program with piracy.

 

[brawlshifter]

I'd gladly do it. I'd prefer to have some kind of backing on this (AKA I make a thread with the official letter format and try to get as many people on board as possible), but sure. I'll write something up.

We need more people to see this as you do, instead of the way Shadic does. I'd definitely back you.

 

[DarkDragoon]

NO IT CAN'T

It has been MODIFIED WITHOUT CHANGING THE NAME to do so. This is why Nuke quit the scene, because everyone associated him and his program with piracy.

>_> Lol. Change it to look for all the same things the legit drive OS looks for. Geez. Or they can just change it so it just applies the changes to the RAM, and runs along side the Wii's current systems.

In programming, there is no such thing as "can't". >_> Within reason.
-DD

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

We need more people to see this as you do, instead of the way Shadic does. I'd definitely back you.

Yeah. Naysayers who say, "this will never work" are so ridiculously counterproductive-if you want it to work, why not do even a small enough part as just posting /support in a thread; hell even not posting "that'll never work, stop trying" in a thread like this would be an improvement.

Also:

Dear Nintendo,
I am coming to you attempting to represent the interests of homebrew hacking. Not homebrew hacking in the sense that many of you may see it; that is, the nightmare that is making people able to pirate your wii games (and to be honest? This should die. It's giving the rest of us a very, very bad name). No, I mean the homebrew hacking most obviously alive in the Smash Universe. Some of you may know what I refer to, the modification known as "Brawl+". It's proving that homebrew hacking is helping to sell games, consoles, and the like. Allow me to explain.

Super Smash Bros Melee was an absolutely incredible fighting game, nobody will ever contest this. It was on famous video gaming tours for 8 years alongside games like Street Fighter, Tekken, Counterstrike, and the like. And it had a huge fan-base, many of which did not take kindly to the latest Super Smash Bros game, Brawl due to how the game runs (I'm not going to bore you with professional terms; basically people didn't like how it became slow, more camping-oriented, and in several degrees, very unfair). So the hardcore melee fans stopped playing super smash bros brawl and stayed with melee-in many cases, not even buying a Wii. See what I'm getting at here? The way brawl ran made fans no longer attracted to it, and they didn't buy the following products such as Super Smash Bros Brawl.

Then, the homebrew channel came along, and several people who were disappointed with how brawl ran decided, "Hang on, we can make this game more like what we wish it was!". They created a modding community which is virtually unparalleled by any other-at least, any other that is actively combated by the thing to be modded's creators. They created a version of the game we know as Brawl+, which is built to be more balanced, more fast-paced, and more technically oriented. And you know what? It is a draw. Not a huge draw, but let me put it this way-they didn't bring it the latest updates of brawlplus on the PAL version of SSBB, so I am importing an american copy of Brawl. That is, buying another version of the same product. Other friends of mine who have been introduced to the game have gone on to get wiis and copies of Brawl; they were certainly not interested in it before. The success of brawl+ is evident; just go to www.smashboards.com and look at the part of the site called the Smash Workshop. It is bustling with activity, and many, many people are there who love what is going on. I'd even argue to the point that if nintendo brought out Brawl+ (The game, plus the modifications) as a new game (think of Super Street Fighter 2 vs. Street Fighter 2; super is a tuneup above all, but boy was it better), threw in a new stage or two, a new character or two (which the workshop would ALSO supply in hacked form!), then people would eat this stuff up! They would buy the game again; and nintendo? Well, the brawl+ modifications are not licensed as far as I know, so that's basically making the same game again with someone else's work thrown in to make money.

Why did I mention this? Why is it so important? Basically, the whole argument in this letter is "Stop trying to remove homebrew (other than piracy)" from the Wii". And I can imagine that nintendo isn't that interested in just doing the will of a niche group such as us. So I'm going to be explaining why the homebrew channel can/would (!) increase nintendo's earnings and profit. Remember, almost everything I'm going to speaking of not only already exists, but is built to work with older versions of the wii without any bugs already.

How I originally came to the thought of this open letter was a post I made on smashboards; I'll enclose it I suppose.

Quote:

What percentage of homebrew users use homebrew exclusively for things like Brawl+, BBrawl, homemade chars; in general, brawl hacking?
What percentage of homebrew users come to hacked games over this?
What percentage of homebrew users pirate games?
How many people are more interested in the wii because of brawl+, the homebrew channel, and game modification (not pirating, just changing things) in general?
How many people buy the wii for one or two choice titles?
How many people would be more interested in these titles if they could personalize it, make it weirder and more fun (mario cart items that are more crazy, bizarre luigi physics in NSMB, brawl+, sick as **** songs on Guitar Hero World Tour, which blew, just a few examples (okay, bad example due to DLC, but you get my point!))

Unquote.

This is the short, but hard to understand version of what I'm about to say. Too long? I'm saying that more people would be interested in the Wii if we could modify things; personalize it. At the same time, the whole "gateway" function of the Homebrew Channel as a whole would vanish. What I mean is that if you included a local version of Gecko OS or a Homebrew Channel with far less options (could probably just get someone from an organization like the infamous Team Twiizers to do it for you for free. Seriously).

Now, let me get a little more technical and deep into this thing.

Let's see.

1. It lowers the motivation of hackers. Supply and demand-theoretically, if less people want the hacks because it's system default, Team Twiizers, who create the hacks for the system patches, (and these hacks allow piracy!) would not have as much reason to continue hacking because less people would be interested in them. Money win either way for nintendo. Hell, according to rumor, they sent you an email detailing how to stop pirated games and not homebrew; maybe they are against the whole piracy business and would gladly work together with you to put something like this together. I wouldn't disregard it as option if they sent you a peace message like that.
2. More people would be interested in buying the wii. I don't think any gamer who's really looked at it can deny that Wii is the worst console of this generation. It sells a lot of consoles, and that's good enough for you. Mostly to the kiddies and their parents. However, the entire hardcore gaming crowd is alienated by it. Let's face it, what good tournament games have been on Wii? Or rather, what games that a hardcore gamer would consider playing have been on Wii? Guilty Gear, Guitar Hero/Rock Band, Super Smash Bros... the list is short, and several games on it are alienating, again, due to random factors, bizarre gameplay, and imbalance. Brawl is probably the most obvious, followed by Mario Kart. Yeah, yeah, I know. You guys are the "casual console" and I know you are very attached to that image. But this would not make it less of a casual console, while at the same time upping the hardcore image. Why? Well, the casual player will either ignore this feature, use it for things like texture hacks (because seriously-dressing up Captain Falcon in SSBB as Green Lantern or Wolverine is pretty funny) and even crazier gameplay. So more fun for casuals, and the feeling "I can do what I want with this, screw the tournament games". On the other hand, the professional gamer will look at the game, remove as many flaws as he can, and enjoy the game. So suddenly you get more gamer cred as a cool console. In fact, people are drawn to the wii who are especially interested in creating bizarre environments in their games-this niche is a lot larger than you would think, but only one company so far that I am aware of has successfully worked on it, and they aren't in the console business. More on them after.
3. More "bad" games move. Let's take a look at some nintendo titles which utterly failed. How many of them could be saved with a patch of some sort? Or a slight retweak of the engine? With this, you wouldn't have to patch a game to make it good-the players can do it themselves!.So that means (some examples) GHWT doesn't have a very irritating difficulty curve regarding the tap solos, some FPSs get improved wiimote support (which they seem to need in some cases), Mario Kart becomes more fair and fun. Extend this argument to already very good games, and you can still do great things like tweak the difficulty, make the physics silly, or make the game more competitively fair. So add More "good" games move too.

All in all, there is no true downside to this. Everything you would need to make this work is right there. Gecko is open source; it's merely a matter of making it a wad file (And there's an application for that too!) and adding it to the wii system menu. The work of one person in an hour. As in, it took me an hour; and I am NOT good with hacking, let me tell you. An experienced hacker would need maybe 15 minutes for that on a wii which is tooled to prevent it.

There is no conceivable downside to this that I could think of, but one or two problems were made apparent to me by a few colleagues on the forums, so I figured I might as well address them.

"Nintendo will never do this. Contrary to what you think, it is not because they are stupid, or petty, or mean-spirited. They must protect their intellectual property so they can conceivably continue to make money off of it, because otherwise someone would get the bright idea to try selling something like Brawl+ for money, and not pay Nintendo a dime despite using 90% of their work."

Well there's a simple fix for this, I imagine. What Intellectual Property Licenses could fit the niche of "I bring out a product without open source or free licensing, but as long as you own a license, you can modify it as you wish. These modifications may not be sold; the modifications themselves are treated as freeware." Something close to that; I mean, how hard is it to police that the .gcts (and to a lesser extent the changes to .pac files) stay free? If someone (other than Nintendo, of course, because they own the basis for these files) breaks that rule and tries to sell a hacked end product, then the customers will be able to turn him in, duh. I'm sure this is possible.

(If any more show up, I will gladly address them)


In conclusion, I would like to point to a gaming company with a very serious rep for modding. Valve. Valve is seen as one of the greatest video game studios out there, pumping out great game after great game. But you know what's funny? One of their greatest and most-played titles is nothing more than a mod on another one of their titles! Counterstrike was originally a Half Life 2 mod, now it is sold as a stand-alone. Gary's Mod allows for very funny Machinimas. Various modifications help make gameplay smooth and intriguing.
Due to the fact that Valve regularly produces downright incredible games, I suppose it's a stretch to attribute this success to their modding. However, the niche of people who are into stuff like this is not quite as small as you might think. I implore you to at least consider what I'm saying in this open letter.

Sincerely and wishing nintendo success in all endeavors,
-<my real name will go here on the real letter/email/w/e>, AKA BPC, Nintendo Fanboy and Super Smash Bros fanatic

How does that look?

 

[DarkDragoon]

>.> The letter looks fine to me.
Good luck!
-DD

 

[DQP]

that's a good letter. there are some grammar/punctuation/capitalization errors in there though.

 

[DevilKiller]

I'm gonna attack [EDIT] everything I can see [END EDIT] in the letter, not because I'm against it, but to make it better, lol.

And by the way, lowering the motivation of hackers? Team Twiizers may not be pirates, but they are dedicated to pushing the Wii to its limits. Limits which other pirates were trying to surpass, and now can because Twiizers did the work.

If Nintendo ever gets to read the end of the letter, I recommend removing "Fanboy" and "fanatic" and replacing it with something more socially accepted. Blame my English teacher for telling me not to use colloquialism. (Heck, did I even spell that right?)

Valve is a competitor, and a tough one for Nintendo too. Is it a good idea to bring them up?

Stronger opening sentence maybe? The words " homebrew hacking" already give me a pretty good idea of what the letter will be about. I might toss it out and wait for the next "fanboy" to send another letter and throw it out again. Rinse and repeat.

Capitalise "brawl , and "american".

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm gonna attack [EDIT] everything I can see [END EDIT] in the letter, not because I'm against it, but to make it better, lol.

And by the way, lowering the motivation of hackers? Team Twiizers may not be pirates, but they are dedicated to pushing the Wii to its limits. Limits which other pirates were trying to surpass, and now can because Twiizers did the work.

If Nintendo ever gets to read the end of the letter, I recommend removing "Fanboy" and "fanatic" and replacing it with something more socially accepted. Blame my English teacher for telling me not to use colloquialism. (Heck, did I even spell that right?)

Valve is a competitor, and a tough one for Nintendo too. Is it a good idea to bring them up?

Stronger opening sentence maybe? The words " homebrew hacking" already give me a pretty good idea of what the letter will be about. I might toss it out and wait for the next "fanboy" to send another letter and throw it out again. Rinse and repeat.

Capitalise "brawl , and "american".

1. K, wouldn't expect anything else.
2. It's worth a try. Are they gonna know that?
3. Probably a good idea.
4. Well I'm not so sure. They fit the bill, but it's also kind of a thing "check it out, your competetitor is doing this thing I'm recommending, and at the same time they are better than you, coincidence?"
... Yeah, that's a weak part of the letter. I'll drop it.
5. How would you formulate it?
6. K, gotcha.

 

[MK26]

woah

BPC, hate to break it to you, but my cynicism meter is going off the chart here...not that it's a bad read, it's just that...i really dont expect your letter to get anywhere or do anything, other than getting a ninty employee in trouble for browsing SWF...

Also, Word's grammar check could help

(colloquialism is spelled correctly, btw)

 

[brawlshifter]

Yeah. Naysayers who say, "this will never work" are so ridiculously counterproductive-if you want it to work, why not do even a small enough part as just posting /support in a thread; hell even not posting "that'll never work, stop trying" in a thread like this would be an improvement.

Also:



How does that look?

It looks great. Nice job! Wow, that boredom factor must make you very productive. Also, I think you should keep Valve in there, for the same reason you said: "They fit the bill, but it's also kind of a thing 'check it out, your competetitor is doing this thing I'm recommending, and at the same time they are better than you, coincidence?'"

woah

BPC, hate to break it to you, but my cynicism meter is going off the chart here...not that it's a bad read, it's just that...i really dont expect your letter to get anywhere or do anything, other than getting a ninty employee in trouble for browsing SWF...

He's going to send it to Nintendo, not just wait for an employee to find it here.

 

[DevilKiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBJQIaWk8uk#t=0m45s

Optimism vs. skepticism. Who will win?
Listen to at least 30 seconds.

 

[brawlshifter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBJQIaWk8uk#t=0m45s

Optimism vs. skepticism. Who will win?
Listen to at least 30 seconds.

............yeah, kinda weird...........Funny as **** though.....

 

[kupo15]

I think its a good letter. The only problem I see with it are two things:
Mentioning the smashboards as a hub for hacking might be bad for the site (whether or not Nintendo already knows about it

The tone of most of the letter seems like you are talking down to Nintendo with all the rhetorical questions

 

[brawlshifter]

I think its a good letter. The only problem I see with it are two things:
Mentioning the smashboards as a hub for hacking might be bad for the site (whether or not Nintendo already knows about it

The tone of most of the letter seems like you are talking down to Nintendo with all the rhetorical questions

1. I'm sure Nintendo already knows.

2. I think its fine.

 

[Isatis]

Mentioning the smashboards as a hub for hacking might be bad for the site (whether or not Nintendo already knows about it

He might have worded it wrong (I know we're one of the top sites for Brawl hacking but not hacking in general)...

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'll review that and reword it so that I'm not pointing at smashboards as the hub for wii hacking, but for brawl hacking. Lol, thanks. But as to the rhetorical questions... I don't know how I would word it otherwise, that's the thing. I can try to revise, as said. I'll get around to that after I fix mah sonic.

EDIT:

Dear Nintendo,
I am coming to you attempting to represent the interests of homebrew hacking. Not homebrew hacking in the sense that many of you may see it; that is, the nightmare that is making people able to pirate your Wii games (and to be honest? This should die. It's giving the rest of us a very, very bad name). No, I mean the homebrew hacking most obviously alive in the Smash Universe. Some of you may know what I refer to, the modification known as "Brawl+". It's proving that homebrew hacking is helping to sell games, consoles, and the like. Allow me to explain.

Super Smash Bros Melee was an absolutely incredible fighting game. Nobody will ever contest this. It was on famous video gaming tours for 8 years alongside games like Street Fighter, Tekken, Counterstrike, and the like. And it had a huge fan-base, many of which did not take kindly to the latest Super Smash Bros game, Brawl due to how the game runs (I'm not going to bore you with professional terms; basically people didn't like how it became slow, more camping-oriented, and in several degrees, very unfair). So the hardcore melee fans stopped playing super smash bros brawl and stayed with melee-in many cases, not even buying a Wii. See what I'm getting at here? The way brawl ran made fans no longer attracted to it, and they didn't buy the following products such as Super Smash Bros Brawl.

Then, the homebrew channel came along, and several people who were disappointed with how brawl ran decided, "Hang on, we can make this game more like what we wish it was!” They created a game modification community, which is virtually unparalleled, by any other-well, at least any other where the producers of the game don’t actively encourage the modification thereof. They created a version of the game we know as Brawl+, which is built to be more balanced, more fast-paced, and more technically oriented. And you know what? It draws people in. Not a huge draw, but let me put it this way-they didn't bring it the latest updates of Brawl+ on the PAL version of SSBB, so I am importing an American copy of Brawl. That is, buying another version of the same product. Other friends of mine who have been introduced to the game have gone on to get Wiis and copies of Brawl; they were certainly not interested in it before. The success of Brawl+ is evident; just look at any of the major Super Smash Bros tournaments or forums. I'd even argue to the point that if Nintendo brought out Brawl+ as a new game (compare street fighter to super street fighter, for example), threw in a new stage or two, a new character or two (which already exist in the smash workshop!), then people would eat this stuff up! They would buy the game again. The Brawl+ modifications are not licensed as far as I know, so that's basically making the same game again with someone else's work thrown in to make far more money.

Why did I mention this? Why is it so important? Basically, the whole argument in this letter is "Stop trying to remove homebrew (other than piracy) from the Wii". And I can imagine that Nintendo isn't that interested in just doing the will of a niche group such as us. So I'm going to be explaining why the homebrew channel can/would (!) increase Nintendo's earnings and profit-why it's good for you as a company. Remember, almost everything I'm going to speaking of not only already exists, but is built to work with older versions of the Wii without any bugs already.

How I originally came to the thought of this open letter was a post I made on smash boards; I'll enclose it I suppose.

Quote:

What percentage of homebrew users use homebrew exclusively for things like Brawl+, BBrawl, homemade chars; in general, brawl hacking? [change brawl hacking to general game hacking, I suppose; similar mods]
What percentage of homebrew users come to hacked games over the homebrew channel because of this?
What percentage of homebrew users pirate games?
How many people are more interested in the Wii because of brawl+, the homebrew channel, and game modification (not pirating, just changing things) in general?
How many people buy the Wii for one or two choice titles?
How many people would be more interested in these titles if they could personalize it, make it weirder and more fun (Mario cart items that are more crazy, bizarre Luigi physics in NSMB, brawl+, etc.)?

Unquote.

This is the short, but hard to understand version of what I'm about to say. I'm saying that more people would be interested in the Wii if we could modify things; personalize it. At the same time, the whole "gateway" function of the Homebrew Channel as a whole would vanish. What I mean is that if you included a local version of Gecko OS or a Homebrew Channel with far less options (could probably just get someone from an organization like the infamous Team TWiizers to do it for you for free. Seriously.)

Now, let me delve a little deeper into it.

What positive influences could placing a native homebrew/Gecko application on the Wii have?

1. It lowers the motivation of hackers. Supply and demand-theoretically, if less people want the hacks because it's system default, Team TWiizers, who create the hacks for the system patches, (and these hacks allow piracy!) would not have as much reason to continue hacking because less people would be interested in them. Profit either way for Nintendo. Hell, according to rumor, they sent you an email detailing how to stop pirated games and not homebrew; maybe they are against the whole piracy business and would gladly work together with you to put something like this together. I wouldn't disregard it as option if they sent you a peace message like that.
2. More people would be interested in buying the Wii. I don't think any gamer who's really looked at it can deny that Wii is the worst console of this generation. It sells a lot of consoles, and that's good enough for you. Mostly to the casual crowd, and I’d be the first to say that there’s nothing wrong with that. However, the entire hardcore gaming crowd is alienated by it. Let's face it, there aren't many good tournament games on the Wii (tournament games in the sense that a hardcore gamer would look twice at them). Guilty Gear, Guitar Hero/Rock Band, Super Smash Bros... the list is short, and several games on it are alienating, again, due to random factors, bizarre gameplay, and imbalance. Brawl is probably the most obvious, followed by Mario Kart. Yeah, yeah, I know. You guys are the "casual console" and I know you are very attached to that image. But this would not make it less of a casual console, while at the same time upping the hardcore image. Why? Well, the casual player will either ignore this feature, use it for things like texture hacks (because seriously-dressing up Captain Falcon in SSBB as Green Lantern or Fox as a stormtrooper is pretty cool) and even crazier gameplay. So more fun for casuals, and the feeling "I can do what I want with this, screw the tournament games". On the other hand, the professional gamer will look at the game, remove as many flaws as he can, and enjoy the game. So suddenly you get the attention of more gamers as a cool, potentially hardcore console. In fact, people are drawn to the Wii who are especially interested in creating bizarre environments in their games-this niche is a lot larger than you would think.
3. More "bad" games move. Let's take a look at some Nintendo titles that utterly failed. I look at some and say, "Hmm, a patch could fix this." Or a slight retweak of the engine. Who knows. With this, you wouldn't have to patch a game to make it good-the players can do it themselves! So that means (some examples) GHWT doesn't have a very irritating difficulty curve regarding the tap solos, some FPSs that need it get improved Wiimote support, Mario Kart becomes more fair and fun. Extend this argument to already very good games, and you can still do great things like tweak the difficulty, make the physics silly, or make the game more competitively fair. So add More "good" games move too; good games get even better.

All in all, there is no true downside to this. Everything you would need to make this work is right there. Gecko is open source; it's merely a matter of making it a wad file (And there's an application for that too!) and adding it to the Wii system menu. The work of one person in an hour. As in, it took me an hour; and I am NOT good with hacking, let me tell you. An experienced hacker would need maybe 15 minutes for that on a Wii, which is tooled to prevent it.

There is no conceivable downside to this that I could think of, but one or two problems were made apparent to me by a few colleagues on the forums, so I figured I might as well address them.

"Nintendo will never do this. Contrary to what you think, it is not because they are stupid, or petty, or mean-spirited. They must protect their intellectual property so they can conceivably continue to make money off of it, because otherwise someone would get the bright idea to try selling something like Brawl+ for money, and not pay Nintendo a dime despite using 90% of their work."

Well there's a simple fix for this, I imagine. What Intellectual Property Licenses could fit the niche of "I bring out a product without open source or free licensing, but as long as you own a license, you can modify it as you wish. These modifications may not be sold; the modifications themselves are treated as freeware." Something close to that; I mean, how hard is it to police that the .gcts (and to a lesser extent the changes to .pac files) stay free? If someone (other than Nintendo, of course, because they own the basis for these files) breaks that rule and tries to sell a hacked end product, then the customers will be able to turn him in, duh. I'm sure this is possible.

"Everyone will want to play their own version online, how do you plan on pulling THAT off?"

I point to how Brawl+ does it right now. Brawl sends only basic game information such as rules and stages over wifi, plus the commands the players enter. So of course, if you have a different codeset than your opponent, something weird will happen where each player ends up seeing something else. If the codes are the same (or there are no codes), then it works just fine. There is nothing wrong with this solution; if you're playing a modded game against someone with it unmodded, then something is probably wrong with what you're doing anyways.

I honestly see this as a perfect way for you, Nintendo, to at the same time gain attention from the hardcore crowd, increase your adoration around the casual crowd, gain a new rep as the customizable console, and potentially lower the risk of piracy with almost no work-I do not see the downside. So in conclusion, I'm just going to hope that you at least consider what I'm saying in this letter, and wish all the best for the future of Nintendo.

Sincerely and wishing Nintendo success in all endeavors,
-<my name goes here on the letter>, AKA Budget Player Cadet, longtime Nintendo fan

 

[Dsull]

i like the letter and its true. i didnt want to hack my wii because i'm one of those people that if its illegal, i'm paranoid about being caught. However, i ruled this as "legal" because none of it is piracy in the least because i already own a wii and brawl, but brawl was boring. My brother (that does hack this thing for piracy, mind you) mentioned Brawl+ so i looked it up. Instantly, even tho i am deployed right now and i am extremely limited on resources, i wanted to hack my wii so i could play this. Took me 2 hours (**** SDHC card slowed me down) to get it to work right, and now i am having more fun at the game than before because i can custom edit my skins and the game is much faster and less obvious (due to the slowness).

In normal brawl, a lot of what i came across could be countered because the game was so freaking slow. in Brawl+, most of that is gone. Having 70% or so being counterable with a quick eye alone is boring.

EDIT: Also, my other brother thats worse than me about the whole piracy thing (he wont even use Emulators for NES games) is thinking about buying brawl now that i brought brawl+ to his attention. He hated brawl because it was clumsy and slow, B+ isnt.