Kojin's Sonic Tech Lab *taking another look at Speed's Sonic*

[infomon]

So uh...DJ...wanna use your Ninja skills to add infzy's name too?

<3

10waytoomanysteaksonicboarders

^^ thisssssss...... we'll nevahr catch 'em all....... mebbe jus add "+ steak brethren" so our bases are kinda covered and we don't feel like jerks for accidentally excluding anyone.

dNES comes to mind.

 

[Player-3]

what about Ayaz

i hear anther has a nice sonic..

 

[Camalange]

what about Ayaz

i hear anther has a nice sonic..

Ayaz, maybe.

Anther, no. His Sonic is terribad.

<3Anther's Pika

We never did finish our Sonic ditto though...shame shame.

@infzy - Dnes...aw man, this pic is too small too fit everybody's name!

 

[JayBee]

lol this has gone from bad to worse for no reason. it can't be that big a deal. so ima make a decision tonight i guess and get this done with. im leaning towards mine. mwahahaha....

 

[Camalange]

Well, if anyone has a problem with their name not being on the picture, we'll just say that they were too slow.

And Kojin...your catchphrase...would you like to share with the rest of the class?

):<

 

[JayBee]

Well, if anyone has a problem with their name not being on the picture, we'll just say that they were too slow.

And Kojin...your catchphrase...would you like to share with the rest of the class?

):<

CANNON SPIIIIIIIKE!

lol my already posted phrase was: "Welcome to the SONIC boards. Everyone else is too slow."

Ta... DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

the hotness... it is here...

 

[Browny]

Gimme a minute... ill see what i can do

http://i41.tinypic.com/2j292sn.png

kek

 

[JayBee]

you know what i just realized woule be more epic? if all the stickies had this on thier OP, each with a different catch phrase.. that would be epic. see if we can get those thread creators to do that instead. that way we have more catch phrases.

yeah, this competition things got old fast. no need, when any thread that want to have the pic with a unique phrase can do so, incresing the epicness by steak. times 9000. check the scouter. you can't because it broke? my bad.

the end.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

My Nomination:

C'mon, Steak it up!

 

[memphischains]

i vote for anything KASR ever said

 

[JayBee]

haha u would say that.

but i decided that if anyone wants to make one up, they can easily make one up themselves. its more steak that way. enjoy.

 

[Browny]

omg i forgot RSR

someone else write his name on that pic, I've edited it enough today and I really should get back to work

 

[JayBee]

This will change the way you play sonic... forevers...

I've worked on the idea for about two weeks now, and with that i entered a touney against high level talent eager to test it out. It will change the way you pick stages with sonic, i assure you. Italked about it before but this need to be discussed an implemented.

Description: iSDR strategy
Level: Yoshi's Island : Brawl

Location: Sonic can use the angled slopes on either side of the main platform to initiate the iSDR by using Spin Charge on them.


Note: iSDR is like a pumped up version of its original special in terms of priority. its wierd, becaues the properties of it against certain moves will dictate that it is invincible, but against others, it can and will clank. however,against the majority of the moves in the game, especially non-special moves, iSDR is godly.

The Idea is that you can abuse this by repeatedly iSDR ing from one side to the other, doing aerials in between. you can land an aerial sideB on the ramp to archive the same effect, as long as it hit the ground there.

This creates a home base where you can base your spacing game, on, using the ramp as a means to effectively stop counter attacks, and prevent camping due the inability to beat the move as it approaches.

This worked so well, that i almost won matches on this alone.

the responce was well recorded to this idea: most opponents who believe they should beat out the spins usually try a bunch of ways to beat it via attack. when it doesn't work the opponent will try to approach from above, but if you time it well, (not hard to do) it gets stopped too. the lastly, the match becomes slowed down, as they tend to try and wait you out of something similar. i responded with a series of fakes, SDVJ, side B cancels, and even ran away from the ramp, only to run back to it when they chased me.


this move when abused controls the match almost entirely, even in the highest levels of competition. then, when you combine this with sonic's ground game and mindgame set, and add the fact that any hit with iSDR still grants you a combo on hit, and Sonic becomes nearly unstoppable.



Here is a small example list of things i know this strategy beats/does not beat. i havent remembered anything

1: Metaknights' Mach Tornado
2: Wario (beats any move he can do from what i have seen)
3: Marths moves can't kick him out either

Pika's B special can clang though

There may be a Sonic ditto vid of me verses ThunderHorse, another sonic player who has been learning from me, from this tourney once kawaii poyo puts them up sometime this weekend. it shows me spamming the move

Ive never been so certain about an idea before. you need to add this to your game there.
discuss.

 

[Tenki]

The only issue is if they know how to camp your jump after the iSDR.

 

[Napilopez]

Abusing iSDR is what turned around the olimar matchup for me :D. It virtually eliminates the problem with his grabs. Its Sonic's only uber cheap tactic XD. And it works, really, really well.

 

[JayBee]

thats true tenki, but if your mix it up enough, you can get away with it for a good portion of the match

 

[Tenki]

how do you mix it up? you lose iSDR if you turn, and you can only go off the stage lol.

also, I tried it just for a bit against a ROB today, it was usually met with [shield] > [laz0r]

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

I did fix'd teh pic

my MSPaint skills are sublime

http://i39.tinypic.com/123nxxy.png

That pic is amazing and full of win Steak.

Well, if anyone has a problem with their name not being on the picture, we'll just say that they were too slow.

And Kojin...your catchphrase...would you like to share with the rest of the class?

):<

I'm too slow DX

Instant spindash roll? Imust have missed that one. How do yod do that? Don't kill me if it's obvious, I'm so out of it right now >_>

 

[Kinzer]

ISDR is just a Spin Dash performed on a hill with an angle greater than 45 degrees, the jump is canceled and it goes straight into the roll. The funny thing is the whole ordeal maintains incinvibility frames, perhaps a technical glitch in the games, but if you're aware of the first four invincibiltiy frames on the SD, then think of a roll you're safe from being interrupted in.

Do take notice though, you can still clank with stuff, and you can be hit out of that.

 

[infomon]

YI:B is a fantastic stage for Sonic, to the point where I sometimes felt guilty tonight about having it chosen as a neutral

Yes those free iSDR's are awesome. Coupled with the fact that the walljumps help our recovery (while nerfing some opponent recoveries, like Ness/Lucas, and decreasing the off-the-edge game of some floaties like Jiggs/ROB), and the shyguys get in the way of projectiles, and the main platform prevents aerial approaches from the likes of Jiggs / Wario / etc, and we can often easily hit ppl from below when they're stuck on that platform....

yeah. Abuse the heck out of iSDR's, because it's the opponent's fault for not knowing the matchup.

And even though I tell like everybody (since I think it's so cool), it's still really useful.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

ISDR is just a Spin Dash performed on a hill with an angle greater than 45 degrees, the jump is canceled and it goes straight into the roll. The funny thing is the whole ordeal maintains incinvibility frames, perhaps a technical glitch in the games, but if you're aware of the first four invincibiltiy frames on the SD, then think of a roll you're safe from being interrupted in.

Do take notice though, you can still clank with stuff, and you can be hit out of that.

Oh I thought we were calling that Air Dashing XD

 

[Kinzer]

Well... that could happen too.

I thought you were referring to ISDR.

 

[infomon]

iSDR = invincible spindash roll.

how do you mix it up? you lose iSDR if you turn, and you can only go off the stage lol.

Side-B at the side, and either shield-cancel or VSDJ. Since the iSDR is actually a decent approach, and they know you'll want to abuse the iSDR once you've done it a few times.... it's sorta extra-effective to play with not doing it sometimes so they can't expect when it will happen.

Also, don't always do it from the ground; like as you're floating near the side of the stage, get into position to quickly get an iSDR.

also, I tried it just for a bit against a ROB today, it was usually met with [shield] > [laz0r]

Huh? How does that work? Which laz0r, like his neutral B? That shouldn't work OoS lol. iSDR goes through laz0rz (including ROB's Fsmash), but I guess if you weren't able to bait or punish those, try SDJ'ing prematurely as well so you don't actually hit his shield (if you find that you'd get punished for it).

idk tho

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

Well... that could happen too.

I thought you were referring to ISDR.

Air dashing is the same thing though right? Just the ISDR is running on a parrallel line to the ground, very, very close to it.

 

[Tenki]

like, he'd wait until I turned around or jump out lol.

If they're hasty, they can't do anything, but if you're patient, then the move has to end sometime.

 

[Kinzer]

More like at an angle from which you left the ground. It works in places like Corneria/Pictochat/some other places I can't quite recall.

P.S. just call it instant, I don't know why but I guess it makes it easier if we all understand it as instant.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

normal lines = ground

arrow = Sonic in ball form moving in direction pointed.

hop over.... ______ ----------->_____------>_________ISDR
sonicside b / 45* angle incline ^ground



hop over.... ______-------------> --------------> Air dash
Sonic side b / 45* angle incline air^


rite?

 

[Camalange]

ISDJ = INSTANT Spin Dash Jump

iSDJ = INVINCIBLE Spin Dash Jump

thar u all go


And this is pretty interesting stuff. Sonic might actually have an effective camp game now XD

EDIT@SS - Yeah, that's pretty much it.

 

[Tenki]

that's silly cam.

ISDJ and iSDJ are all instant spin dash jump, because there is no invincible spindash jump.

ISDR and iSDR are all invincible spin dash roll, because there is no instant spindash roll.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Lol, I've been doing this **** all the time as soon as I heard from this. Another protip: This stage has walls going all the way down. You can walljump. Go B-air (:<

HOWEVER, this is still using SDR as an approach, which we all know was kind of bad. It just leaves you punished when you finish your move. You can jump and be vulnerable for an attack. Oh wait, you can airdodge O_o. So you roll of the stage (THIS STAGE DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE STRAIGHT AIRDASH), basicly the same situation, except your below the ledge. Jump to stage to walljump to B-air. You turnaround, you lose invincibility. That's it. Stupid option to do.

BTW, I just wrote down whatever I was thinking at the time of writing.

EXTRA EDIT: DK can has invincibility too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-FXO43sUAc
This means invincible (insert move here) isn't pertaining to just Sonic. If you have a move with invincibility, and you do something crazy with a slope, you can has invincibility the whole?

 

[JayBee]

i dont get what the issue is. the weakness if a spin based approach is known, so we mixed it up during matches since forever. this doesn't change because of this tech. and you can opt to just sit there and spin on/ near the edge and wait for them to come at you with an attack, run around the general area, etc...its not stupid at all. you can use it stupidly, but that's on the player.


Tenki, youre a smart sonic, it should be easy to mix it up. not only can you fake the intention of doing the tech, you can jump early and away if you think they will shield. plus no one says you have to go to the ramp every time you finish iSDR. but this is garenteed to force approach or make them attempt to out camp you, which is technically impossible if they are behind.


iSDR goes through ROB's Laser unharmed, btw. however, Gyro will clank.


Still, YI:B is now Sonic's best neutral stage easy. he can go aggro, he can wall jump for added recovery, he gets a platform if he needs it against projectile users, the gimp game is still good here, and there is enough space outside the platform to use sonic's recovery/ momentum cancels well. And if he needs to he can spam the ultra high priority iSDR glitch on the angled sides of the stage to give him an approach/ camp tool that few charaters have a decent answer to, and helps prevent others from camping as well.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Footstooling

Footstool after you Spring. Make sure you dont get landcamped. I will elaborate more if someone doesn't fully understand what I mean here.

 

[JayBee]

do it anyway. there always is someone who doesn't. thats how you got to explain cool and new things in the Lab.

 

[Jim Morrison]

It's not new, it's something which should just be known. Basicly it's when you fall down from a spring without doing a predictable, punishable D-air, but instead just airdodge to avoid landcamping. This still doesn't work very well, your opponent still has frames to attack you in. That's when footstooling a landcamper comes in. They might be charging up a smash? FOOTSTOOL (D-air after if you want). They shield for a shieldgrab? FOOTSTOOL to get away lulz.
That's basicly my theory.

I do this alot in wifi matches against other Sonics who charge up-angled F-smashes or D-smash. This even helps you evade up-angled F-smash (srsly, I did this)

 

[Tenki]

it's funny on people who try to do D-smash or grab or some other low hitting attack, but it's no good on U-smashes lol.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Mostly, but it depends on whose. If you spam the jump button you can actually evade some

 

[Camalange]

that's silly cam.

ISDJ and iSDJ are all instant spin dash jump, because there is no invincible spindash jump.

ISDR and iSDR are all invincible spin dash roll, because there is no instant spindash roll.

Oh whoops, that's my bad.

All these people keep confusing me with their fake steak acronyms >_>

@Gf2 - The footstooling to prevent land camping actually works sometimes if the opponent fails at properly...well...land camping, lol

 

[Tenki]

Anyone remember this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heEflKvN6ts&feature=channel_page

Well, with a combination of a bunch of threads, mostly put together here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6821388#post6821388


I figured how it was set up.

We all know that there was some kind of weird property from being bounced off the wall that eliminated al hitstun when he went flying, so he was able to do an instant spinshot and return to the edge like nothing happened.

But more interestingly and (lol, with a nod towards our "happy new years" present on D-throw) possibly useful, if you jump while doing downwards DI, you get a better range of trajectory and can DI down+tech the floor near the opponent and pull off a "LOL-D-THROW'd" style counterattack.

And if not, if you know what moves you can pull off this "SH DI" and do it correctly, you'll be able to do things like showcase Sonic's "momentum cancels".

 

[JayBee]

that vid is reetarded. i almost jizzed. in. my pants. almost.
ill work on this and see if i can't have something to say later on.
good show.

if you recall, something similar happened in "Shatter the Grounds" on YI:B. ...

 

[memphischains]

can i a link to a iSDR vid?