Leech Seed and Stealth Rocks and Spikes, Oh My!: Stage Analyses (Updated)

[infernovia]

No I was talking to infernovia about that. He said that "there are many places to tether onto". I assume he was thinking about norfair. I agree with you entirely.

I was talking about norfair prolly.

But I can't find this post you are speaking of.

 

[Toby.]

Hahaha twas demenise that said it

Gee I've been getting mixed up a lot lately :embarrass

 

[Bomber7]

I think I'll add something to see if this will be seen as almost or somewhat acurate. I found that Delfino serves quite well for PT. The only problem I see with it is recovery for the 3 pokemon, other wise, the stage has platforms and spikeing areas(the water). Not to mention when you are by the cafe, ivy can just stand agasint the wall and go defense with bullet seed or something like that. Imo, wehter you be on the ground or air, charz will own. I found Delfino is a good counterpick agasint ditty, if he is trying to recover, you can easily punish him.

I thin kthat is it, if anyone wants to add or correct, just say so.

 

[Steeler]

ivysaur can't get edgehogged a lot of the time, and can get good camping positioning (although, hey, the opponent can just not approach and waste your timer...) so it's pretty decent for ivy in that regard. squirtle gets release grabbed by quite a few characters though, it can end in a lost stock on the walk-offs.

charizard doesn't mind the stage either way.

 

[Magik0722]

Leech seed isnt part of the stage in pokemon, its more like a status effect like confusion.

 

[Miles.]

wait we have a stage discussion thread?

 

[Retro Gaming]

Leech seed isnt part of the stage in pokemon, its more like a status effect like confusion.

I listed all of the moves/effects that could be removed with Rapid Spin.

wait we have a stage discussion thread?

Yes. I know you wanted to do something like this, if you want to take control of the first post I think I could make that kind of change.

 

[CoonTail]

I think I'll add something to see if this will be seen as almost or somewhat acurate. I found that Delfino serves quite well for PT. The only problem I see with it is recovery for the 3 pokemon, other wise, the stage has platforms and spikeing areas(the water). Not to mention when you are by the cafe, ivy can just stand agasint the wall and go defense with bullet seed or something like that. Imo, wehter you be on the ground or air, charz will own. I found Delfino is a good counterpick agasint ditty, if he is trying to recover, you can easily punish him.

I thin kthat is it, if anyone wants to add or correct, just say so.

I have always played delfino because I have always felt my PT has been very strong on delfino. In the last doubles tourny I went to my partner and I counterpicked with Delfino literally every chance we got....it even gave us a win over Wes and Dire so it deff had some advantage on our parts. Overall I love any area with the water because I will always make a note with either Zard or Ivy to spike someone after I get them stuck in the water, such a great way to end first stock. Not to mention squirtle has alot of room to move around in and a forward hydroplane covers the entire platform that carries you around. Lastly any of the walk off sidings are amazing for squirtle to just get any early AAA combo to kill or a throw doing the same. So overall I deff agree that Delfino is a place to counterpick with.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I listed all of the moves/effects that could be removed with Rapid Spin.

You forgot about Toxic Spikes and the trapping moves like Fire Spin and Whirlpool

 

[Steeler]

squirtle should have a rapid spin move

so what is pt's best neutral stage? i'm thinking something small that makes camping and the like more difficult for the opponent. if there's one weak all three have, it's that none of them can do much from long distances.

 

[Bomber7]

I have always played delfino because I have always felt my PT has been very strong on delfino. In the last doubles tourny I went to my partner and I counterpicked with Delfino literally every chance we got....it even gave us a win over Wes and Dire so it deff had some advantage on our parts. Overall I love any area with the water because I will always make a note with either Zard or Ivy to spike someone after I get them stuck in the water, such a great way to end first stock. Not to mention squirtle has alot of room to move around in and a forward hydroplane covers the entire platform that carries you around. Lastly any of the walk off sidings are amazing for squirtle to just get any early AAA combo to kill or a throw doing the same. So overall I deff agree that Delfino is a place to counterpick with.

I found delfino works agaisnt ditty also, when playing online I found that ivy can grab the stage even from underneith it.

___________________ <---Stage/ledge


>>>>>>>>>>()

() = Ivy, the spacing, roughly represents my distance form the ledge, it was quite amazing, his vine whip just hooked around and grabbed that ledge. I was most impressed.

 

[Retro Gaming]

squirtle should have a rapid spin move

so what is pt's best neutral stage? I'm thinking something small that makes camping and the like more difficult for the opponent. if there's one weak all three have, it's that none of them can do much from long distances.

My personal favorite is Yoshi's Island Brawl, even though some people really hate that level. I'm starting to like Final Destination more than I used to, but I still hate the lack of even one platform.

I have the hardest times on Battlefield with Charizard sometimes because of how hard it can be to get back down after being put above the opponent. On the other hand, if its reversed Charizard usually fares well. This is more a personal distaste than anything.

I'm pretty impartial to all of the starter stages.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I personally think Smashville is the best neutral stage. The addition of the platform is good for PT since pokemon lacks range more or less. The distance of the stage is nice since Squirtle can traverse most of the stage on a single Hydroplane, and it's small enough for Charizard to motive good agressive battling, at the same time, it doesn't limit Ivysaur's spacing.

Since the majority of the pokemon kill on the side, I think the distance isn't all to bad when playing that wasy, and it doesn't hamper Ivysaur too much since he can make it back on stage if he doesn't die. (Any further distance, I think Ivysaur is pretty much dead anyway)

 

[Bomber7]

I personally think Smashville is the best neutral stage. The addition of the platform is good for PT since pokemon lacks range more or less. The distance of the stage is nice since Squirtle can traverse most of the stage on a single Hydroplane, and it's small enough for Charizard to motive good agressive battling, at the same time, it doesn't limit Ivysaur's spacing.

Since the majority of the pokemon kill on the side, I think the distance isn't all to bad when playing that wasy, and it doesn't hamper Ivysaur too much since he can make it back on stage if he doesn't die. (Any further distance, I think Ivysaur is pretty much dead anyway)

I want to add to that. I played on of my friends in the last tourny I went to. He chaingrabbed me with G&W on that platform. I got seriusly owned once he got me. I couldnt even get out of it with a dodgeroll or spot dodgle or DI out of it, and I was playing as TL. then something hit me a little bit after the tourny, Charz or squirt on that platform = mosntrus chain grab-release action >=D

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Yup retro said some time ago something about standing/ftrhowing chaingrabs on that platform, just remember that:
1.Both oponents on the platform is not a usual event, so you wont grab too much there
2.The pokemanz are not the only ones who can do it, so watch out, it can work against you
I think smashville is pretty good for PT, but i think that the pokemon kill better on the top of the screen.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Actually, all I found out was that you can release grab Sheik with Charizard (maybe Squirtle) in the direction the platform is moving if you stand at the edge and force a ground release. The timing is really strict and you don't honestly get anything out of it unless you carry her across the entire stage and Fthrow her off.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

How do we feel about Rainbow Cruise? I've found that I rather like it. Squirtle can move around all day there without much worry. Ivysaur can worry less about recovery, and Ivysaur/Charizard can worry less about being juggled. A generally-low ceiling help them a fair amount, and Squirtle can get a realistic F-Tilt lock on the ship.

 

[Ulevo]

Yoshis Island I find to be the best neutral overall for Pokemon Trainer. Battlefield is another good one too, although like Retro stated, it can be difficult to manage if Charizard gets thrown or knocked above the platforms. I tend to abuse more than be abused on that stage though, so I'm usually fond of it.

Lylat Cruise is good for Charizard, I'm not fond of it for anyone else really. I generally dislike the stage.

Oddly enough, I found Rainbow Cruise to work very well. Especially for Squirtle. I thought that Ivysaurs weaknesses would be heavily exploited here, but that doesn't seem to be the case most of the time I've played.

Other stages I love to Counterpick, barring they're legal, are Norfair, Corneria and Pirate Ship. Norfair is a fantastic Ivysaur stage. Nair/Bair combos everywhere, and you can maneuver around the stage really well. Squirtle does well here too. Corneria I discovered is good for Charizard and Squirtle, mostly due to the very low ceiling and the brutal stage spikes you can perform on against the wall of the fin with throws. Pirate Ship... well. If you're Charizard, and they go into the water. You win.

Edit: How would you guys find other Melee stages, such as Brinstar, PS1 and Dreamland?

 

[Bomber7]

lylat hateeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

I'll join in on this thread when start talking about sweetspot tethering through levels. Like the dorsal fin on corneria, just mosey on under there, and when they run up the other side, sweetspot tether them. Classic.

It also works on many parts of Onett, I'm too lazy to find other spots, so discuss.

 

[SuorGenoveffa]

Just a question: How do you guys see Jungle Japes, Halberd and Brinstar as counterpicks with PT?

 

[Ulevo]

Just a question: How do you guys see Jungle Japes, Halberd and Brinstar as counterpicks with PT?

Actually, now that I look at it, I think Jungle Japes might be a fairly good Ivysaur stage. Ledges are easy to grab, and even if he is far off on the ledge side, he can probably make it back with his decent tether. Very good camping stage too, and Razor Leaf loves that.

Halberd I hate with basically everyone, so I'm not sure.

Brinstar, I'd imagine, would be a good Squirtle stage. I'm not sure though. If someone could fill me on this too, I'd appreciate it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Jungle Japes is more trouble than it's worth, although I do like the stage. Squirtle jabs and F-Tilts can knock people into the water and into a Klap Trap efficiently. Ivysaur has tether fun on the level, and can camp one of the sides with projectile moves. Charizard has a similar thing with Ivysaur. However, most other characters can camp better than PT, and it takes FOREVER to kill there, which is a major burden because of stamina.

I like Halberd as a general level, and it's generally good for PT because he likes killing off the top...but it's risky to try against characters that can abuse the ability to pass through edges (Marth, Dedede, MK) or people that kill vertically better than you (Snake). Still not a bad option at all against them, but be wary.

Brinstar -is- a good Squirtle stage, because the awkward stage placement makes aerial fighting almost forced sometimes. Squirtle D-Tilt breaks the center quickly, if you want that. Despite the lava helping Ivysaur's recovery, it's generally-bad for Ivysaur and Charizard, because they get juggled easily, and they have no room for their ground game.

 

[Ulevo]

Hm. With regards to Brinstar, I know Meta Knight can spike characters if he catches them in a Dthrow if it is slightly worn away.

It makes me wonder, are there any abusive strategies on this particular part of the stage for any of the Pokemon? How would Squirtles or Ivysaurs Dthrow work, or even Charizards? I'm also wondering if you could use Flamethrower in there somehow.

* Testing ideas *

Edit: I also think it is worth mentioning that the side walls under the platforms provide good coverage from projectiles for Squirtle. Possibly Ivysaur, but he may be too big behind there. Razor Leaf could go through them though.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Edit: I also think it is worth mentioning that the side walls under the platforms provide good coverage from projectiles for Squirtle. Possibly Ivysaur, but he may be too big behind there. Razor Leaf could go through them though.

I forgot to mention that; good call. Ivysaur is safe there, too.

 

[Bomber7]

i would say Lylat is more trouble than its worth in my case. when I get on stage and sheild any attack from below I get knocked off and fall to the ground and I'm wide open for an attack because I have to recover by pressing A or tilt to dodgeroll but that doesnt happen enought, not to mention with all 3 recoveries its tricky to recover. Ivy imo recovers best on that stage if oyu opponent doesnt ledgeguard you otherwise I find squirtle and charz hard to recover.