Let's Talk About Being Good: A Rant

[PottyJokes]

how to be skillful : never win a tournament wiht decent competition like roneblaster. now thats skill!

 

[KAOSTAR]

wobbling 8 stocks out of a possible 8 isnt very skillful.

im not saying anymore because everyone knows its true.

Im sorry but if somebody wobbled 8 times in a row, either the played a noob or they just impressed me by landing 8 solid grabs on a good player. Lol you really hate wobbling dont you. Im telling you man, just say "Wobblings mad gay, but I can understand why it doesnt warrant a ban" **** is soo unbeatable. You get half the ppl back to your side because you spoke the truth and they are thinking.... yea wobbling is pretty gay if it happened to me lol.

 

[V3ctorMan]

F.U.N

F-friends who do stuff together
U-u and me
N N.E.where and any time at all!

Someone finish please.. omg I'd bee soo happy <33333333333

^although childish, most likely the most accurate definition of F.U.N.
<333

 

[Spamus43]

F is for fire that burns down the whole town.
U is for uranium... BOMBS!
N is for no survivorrrrrrs....



















and W is for Wobbling is fine.

 

[Mew2King]

wobbles planking with jiggs is almost as good as planking with metaknight in brawl. It's too bad Mango and Hungrybox don't like to do it because it IS extremely broken. Top players just don't use it because they have more honor than that.

 

[V3ctorMan]

F is for fire that burns down the whole town.
U is for uranium... BOMBS!
N is for no survivorrrrrrs....




















and W is for Wobbling is fine.

at least someone hasn't lost their youth <3 it's kinda nice to see ^^

 

[GREENTHUMB]

hungry start planking hardcore.

you can back air and regrab the edge a zillion times

 

[darkgirku]

down here in the deep blue sea

.
lol

*agrees with the OP*

 

[Tee ay eye]

winning money is fun

 

[Uck]

Win by using the most effective tactics to kill the opponent with minimal effort.There is no honor in a video game.The game only knows who wins and who doesn't.

Chances are that the move has a counter.

Real honor comes from fighting to the best of you and your characters ability and not holding back on your opponent.Then again it doesn't matter because the game only knows who won and who didn't win."omg not fair he can run faster than me because he wears shoes!"

If you personally want to play with made up rules in your head go ahead.Like in mw2 people called those who used Akimbos Models noobs.I beg to differ I called them smart because while you were getting frustrated getting your @$$ handed to you they were raking in the killfeeds.

moral of the story is that you should never insult someone because you "think" there cheap and say to someone who probably works very hard that they have no real skill.Keep it to yourself.Wobbling i'm not going to comment on because I have no place in giving my opinion on that.Hungrybox is an awesome player

On another note theres no such thing as cheap.Theres is only legal play and not legal play.If something is broken it is banned.If someone chooses to not use a move then its there right but if its legal it is the other persons right to use it until and if it needs a ban.

@mew2king I will pay you 500 dollars to come play at my house for a day! >.>

 

[Metal Reeper]

I like how wobbles calls Hbox not skilled =p hah just kidding, I agree though wobbles, great post.

 

[gm jack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5u39LxgyuI

i guess pink shinobi was just more skilled than mango this match.

Of course. PS picked a solid counter pick and played the match up according to the stage. He'd have been foolish to play it any other way. Camping is legit. It was something mango couldn't deal with as well as PS could do it, so PS was the better player in that match.

Play to win people. Some of us enjoy all the really gay options characters have. I play sheik because she is "gay". I am really satisfied by a good tech chase, bthrow and needle gimping and landing a tilt to fair at killing percents. Why? Because it works.

 

[kirkq]

Wobbles your original post is exactly how I feel about this game.

I don't think HBox is 'unskilled' per se, I just think that the metagame plays too restrictively to take advantage of his playstyle. I think the current metagame sucks against fighting both jigglypuff and ice climbers.

RockCrock, while I think there is merit to having fun playing a game, you general argument cannot hold in a tournament environment. When I play this game I play largely to seek the highest level of competition. I commonly play "control" falco. I run away and laser all the time. In some matchups I spend 80% of my time on the platforms. I find it to be purely a mental exercise of how much I can focus myself. I will not say this is 'fun', but I do find it to be very 'interesting' and 'thought intensive.' It's like a game of chess to me. At the end of the day most players intend to win. Players like Zhu will refuse to play campy and forge their own path playing aggressively. If that is what gives him the most satisfaction in this game I can respect the **** out of that.

How are you to judge my satisfaction in this game from Zhu's, and from your own?

When someone like Cosmo starts beasting through a tournament with Zelda, I think we all respect the **** out of that. You can either play to win or you can play to impress. It is like a sliding scale. Players will choose whatever satisfies their personal goals. There can be winners who don't actually win the tournament.

People like Wobbles, Zhu, and Cosmo were all able to present their own style at POE3. Wobbles won the tournament. Zhu and Cosmo displayed some awesome games. I personally only got to rip PEEF a new one, but I think it was worth it.

I have always had four goals at tournaments.
1: Beat as many people as I gauge that I am able to.
2: Have people recognize the viability of my control and punish playstyle.
3: Achieve some of the stupidest falco combos possible.
4: Meet people who enjoy competitive gaming.

I haven't played well in a tournament for quite a while unfortunately.

People who get grabbed and throw their hands in the air and say "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO ESCAPE" instead of going, "what got me grabbed and how can I avoid it?" will continue to get ***** until the end of time.

At the end of the day the metagame should be defined by utilizing everything in your ability to win. Since most players avoid camping against ice climbers and jigglypuff, the metagame suffers and everyone johns. Your personal limitations should not affect your views of the metagame.

planking and wobbling are not true skill strategies.

OHKOs are cheap in general, which is why I go for them so much in Melee. A lot of my melee strategy revolves around OHKO

Let me try to interpret this statement. "Wobbling is not a true skill strategy. Ice climbers have a one combo kill that is not a demonstration of skill. I go for one hit kills all the time"

Your logic is awful.

Anyway...

I can't even comprehend why people are johnning about wobbling when it is possible to plank to victory in this game. Planking is easily the dumbest viable strategy in the game, and I think rules do need provided to prevent sheik players from winning as soon as they get a percentage lead and get to a ledge.

 

[CloneHat]

Do what works, I suppose.

...Not much else I can really input on this topic, unless anyone has a question for me?

Do you ever get pissed with so many people saying you have "no skill"?

 

[Archangel]

wobbling was banned though. I will go as far as to say Wobbles probably loses to Zhu in the absence of wobbling. It would still probably be close though. I wouldn't bet money on it thats for sure. However If such a tactic really makes that big of a difference then why unban it. Chu dat has done extremely well without it so he has my infinite respect. I've seen him take out 2 stocks with Popo alone. That pretty much shows me you don't need something like that to win It's just a cheap move that causes some players to win against people they cannot beat without it. That to me destroys the idea of a competition entirely.

 

[hungrybox]

Do you ever get pissed with so many people saying you have "no skill"?

I guess my last 40 tournaments were a coincidence then.


I don't see IC's as unbeatable....not one bit.


I'm guessing it's because I play Jiggs?


And for those struggling with wobbling who main like fox, falco, falcon, sheik, etc...

Try jabbing. Just press A when you're in front of them (properly spaced). ESPECIALLY with Falco.

It makes a successful wobble quite tricky to pull off.

 

[Archangel]

I guess my last 40 tournaments were a coincidence then.


I don't see IC's as unbeatable....not one bit.


I'm guessing it's because I play Jiggs?


And for those struggling with wobbling who main like fox, falco, falcon, sheik, etc...

Try jabbing. Just press A when you're in front of them (properly spaced). ESPECIALLY with Falco.

It makes a successful wobble quite tricky to pull off.

*takes note* I'll give it a try.

How do you feel when people compare you to other puff players? Darc, Mango, King...etc

 

[LLDL]

Wobbling is kool and skillful, am I right wobbles.

 

[Geist]

I always like Wobbles' rants.

 

[EPsilon933]

Wobbling is just like Shine spiking.

Wobbles=death
Shine spike = death

Wobbles = difficult to set up
Shine spike = difficult to set up

Shine spike = 3 frames of you in pain, then you watch yourself fall to your death
Wobbles = about 1800 to 3600 frames of you in pain, then you watch yourself fly to your death

WHAT! 3600! THERE'S NO WAY THAT CAN BE LEGAL!!!

 

[Niko45]

I totally disagree with this topic. It is not so cut and dry as winning is winning - respect it! In a fist fight, between two people who are pissed at each other enough to come to blows, it is still considered a major foul to kick somebody in the nuts. There are unspoken rules in EVERY type of game, that are expected to be followed. The Tim Duncan metaphor was horrific. This is not a battle of flash versus fundamentals, this is a battle of fundamentals against exploitative strategy. Pink Shinobi would be a la holding the ball until time ran out in the game before the shot clock was invented (go figure, they implemented a rule to stop that!).

I think, if you ARE allowed to wobble, you do deserve all the **** and hate ur gonna get for it. There IS such thing as playing the right way in all games because rules can only go so far without completely up-ending the game itself. Please don't try to make a case for being respected for wobbling or planking because the bottom line is: it's a ***** move.

 

[LLDL]

Ice climbers isn't that good of a character though. If someone like marth or fox had wobbling, that would just be stupid.

Not that many people use ice climbers, even less can wobble, and even less can play at that pro level and wobble. If you get wobbled, ur just in the wrong spot in the bracket at the wrong time, because You haven't practiced against ice climbers very often have you. (Not talking to anyone in particular)

 

[Pi]

Wobbling is just like Shine spiking.

Wobbles=death
Shine spike = death

Wobbles = difficult to set up
Shine spike = difficult to set up

Shine spike = 3 frames of you in pain, then you watch yourself fall to your death
Wobbles = about 1800 to 3600 frames of you in pain, then you watch yourself fly to your death

WHAT! 3600! THERE'S NO WAY THAT CAN BE LEGAL!!!

It's a good thing you made a big bold post so people could see it.

JK, you're dumb, that's a stupid argument.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I totally disagree with this topic. It is not so cut and dry as winning is winning - respect it! In a fist fight, between two people who are pissed at each other enough to come to blows, it is still considered a major foul to kick somebody in the nuts. There are unspoken rules in EVERY type of game, that are expected to be followed. The Tim Duncan metaphor was horrific. This is not a battle of flash versus fundamentals, this is a battle of fundamentals against exploitative strategy. Pink Shinobi would be a la holding the ball until time ran out in the game before the shot clock was invented (go figure, they implemented a rule to stop that!).

I think, if you ARE allowed to wobble, you do deserve all the **** and hate ur gonna get for it. There IS such thing as playing the right way in all games because rules can only go so far without completely up-ending the game itself. Please don't try to make a case for being respected for wobbling or planking because the bottom line is: it's a ***** move.

kicking somebody in the nuts is a ***** move. but stop being stupid, you are fighting. the point is to win. I think 2v1, curb stomping, kicking somebody while down, jumping ppl are all pretty foul, but it happens.

wobbling is gay yea. but unwritten rules mean nothin in tourney. I can understand in friendlies, but tourney is everything goes. its a measurement of your ability to win.

smash is a game.not real life. the rules in smash are much more specific and everything within those rules is legal.

halo, noob combo-pretty good, but takes no skill right? you can follow whatever rules you want as long as they are in compliance with tourney rules. just know your unwritten rules aren't the same as everyone else's.

 

[Niko45]

This topic is about respect, not about tourney rules.

You don't kick in the nuts if you want any respect from anyone after a fight, and it's not an honest victory if you win like that.

When money is on the line, some people will do whatever it takes to win. They don't necessarily deserve the same respect for their wins.

At the end of the day they have their money, and their fellow sell outs to make them feel better about themselves. If you want respect, play the right way imo (there IS a right way to play, again, in all games/sports/etc), if you don't care about respect, just keep doing what you're doing.

 

[pockyD]

nah

the 'right' way to play is anything within the rules

if you enter a tournament but don't quite play to win (and 'playing to win' varies player to player, and frequently it's not the campy stally game, but everyone has an idea of what playstyle gives themselves the best chance), THAT'S being disrespectful to your opponent

 

[LLDL]

The topic isn't all about deserving respect for doing whats right. The point wobbles was trying to make, if you read the entire thing, was that people win and are still not respected. People who play gay, are respected less (includes wobbling chain grabbing etc) and the point Wobbles was making is that they are respected less for what they do, and wrongly accused of not having real skill.

 

[JPOBS]

This topic is about respect, not about tourney rules.

actually, the topic is about being good.

you're the only one talking about respect.

 

[EPsilon933]

JK, you're dumb, that's a stupid argument.

So are the arguements everwhere in the PAL vs NTSC and the wobbling debates. It's stupid. I just jump in, say something really stupid, watch a bit, the forget it for a day or two.Maybe I'll jump into one of these topics I don't care about. Or maybe caring about doing what I do in these threads is considered caring about the topic. But yeah, everyone on these stupid argument threads are stupid. Feel free to include me in my statement because I don't care about what anyone thinks when they read this. barlw is a fun game when heavy gravity and reflect status are on, and MetaKnight's banned.

aka trolling

 

[mastermoo420]

If wobbling is banned, camping should be banned. They are pretty much the same. Both are fairly easy overall, yet to perfectly execute it and set them up, there's a lot of things that need to happen.

But Rog, I agree with your statement, even if you/others consider it a stupid argument. But I didn't know it was three frames hitlag. o-o

 

[gm jack]

wobbling was banned though. I will go as far as to say Wobbles probably loses to Zhu in the absence of wobbling. It would still probably be close though. I wouldn't bet money on it thats for sure. However If such a tactic really makes that big of a difference then why unban it. Chu dat has done extremely well without it so he has my infinite respect. I've seen him take out 2 stocks with Popo alone. That pretty much shows me you don't need something like that to win It's just a cheap move that causes some players to win against people they cannot beat without it. That to me destroys the idea of a competition entirely.

Why is it cheap? It is hard for IC to get a synced grab if the opponent isn't playing stupidly. It is just a severe punishment for missing.

How is it different to say a puff rest. If a sheik tries to grab and the puff ducks, the sheik can say goodbye to her stock. However, if the Sheik knew the match up and knows crouching means jiggs can't be grabbed, he wouldn't do it. With IC, why would you ever put yourself in a situation where jiggs can get an easy synced grab? Wobbling is just a very string punishment.

Yes it is boring to watch once it is happening, but even though wobbling itself is broken in its effects, the requirements to perform it balance it out. You can't just say so and so would win if you didn't use X. I bet falco wouldn't be so good without his Dair. Marth can lose his Fsmash at that etc. Every character has good points. With ones outside top tier, these get fewer. IC are lucky to have so many options of a grab, and seeing how one is a safe way to get a stock, why would they not use it?

Wobbling is no more broken than any other good option. It is just horrible to watch it happen to you because it takes a while.

Low tier mains who have always had to deal with Sheik's chain grab don't complain about it, and sheik is an excellent character at getting grabs. IC are comparatively bad at it, and them getting a grab in the right way to wobble or chain grab is because they worked for it or the opponent made a mistake.

 

[KirbyKaze]

But you have to wait a turn for your Swords of Revealing Light to go away because it's currently holding up the castle!

Your monsters are still trapped inside the Chaos Shield! Behold as your fortress of darkness crumbles atop them! You've built yourself into a corner, Panik! Beyond your veneer of terror and shadows, you were simply a coward hiding inside walls. Observe in your despair - even your walls have turned against you!

 

[Wobbles]

This topic is about respect, not about tourney rules.

You don't kick in the nuts if you want any respect from anyone after a fight, and it's not an honest victory if you win like that.

When money is on the line, some people will do whatever it takes to win. They don't necessarily deserve the same respect for their wins.

At the end of the day they have their money, and their fellow sell outs to make them feel better about themselves. If you want respect, play the right way imo (there IS a right way to play, again, in all games/sports/etc), if you don't care about respect, just keep doing what you're doing.

And who makes these rules? You? The people who say that edgeguarding is unfair and cheap and you should let people get back on the stage? You throw edgeguarding in and the game becomes drastically more interesting. I played with a guy who accused me of using "gay Fox ****" when I shined him off the level. The stuff you see all day long in tournaments, the average scrub will ***** and complain about endlessly. What separates you from that average scrub? What makes Fox's shinespikes NOT gay but Puff's camping gay? What makes an infinite gay when it's totally okay to zero to death somebody with Sheik's CG? What makes it okay for M2K to completely deny all Falcon players a shot at 1st place because he's willing to absolutely slaughter them in a horrific counter matchup, but it's not okay for HBox to b-air people and rest them from jab resets? If you can elucidate for me a reasonable criteria for these differences beyond "NO IT'S GAY AND YOU'RE GAY," then I'd be willing to sit down and listen to you. You can't draw the line for me anywhere, you just pick things at random based on what you like.

The problem is that "gay" changes from person to person and they never sit down to ask why certain things are taboo and certain things aren't. And I guarantee you, you do NOT get better that way. Don't console yourself with "well he played gay and that's why I lost." Learn to deal with ****. It makes you better. Get your friend to camp you during practice so that way when somebody tries to camp you in tournament you destroy them. You'll be surprised how few people do things to you when they learn it gets them four-stocked.

Maybe the guy who destroys you with some lame strategy in tournament isn't actually "better" than you, he's just exploiting a weakness that you specifically have and when it comes to playing other people he'll get *****. But every loss is a chance for you to learn something about your own weaknesses and where you can improve. By trying to pin the blame for your loss elsewhere, you deny yourself that opportunity. You cripple your growth as a player.

 

[JPOBS]

If wobbling is banned, camping should be banned. They are pretty much the same. Both are fairly easy overall, yet to perfectly execute it and set them up, there's a lot of things that need to happen.

But Rog, I agree with your statement, even if you/others consider it a stupid argument. But I didn't know it was three frames hitlag. o-o

Leaves are green, money is green.Leaves are mostly made of cellulose, money is mostly made of cellulose. Leaves grow on trees, Money grows on...oh wait

Just because things are alike in some respects, does not mean they are alike in all respects.
silly arguement is silly.

 

[Archangel]

If wobbling is banned, camping should be banned. They are pretty much the same. Both are fairly easy overall, yet to perfectly execute it and set them up, there's a lot of things that need to happen.

As Niko said before Camping is like Holding the ball before the shot clock was invented. If the shock clock or there was no play clock in NFL Someone could score and then not do anything for 1 hour or so and there would be nothing the other team could do. I mean you could say DON'T GET SCORED ON but that is a dump statement. Same goes with this game. I'm all for adding a stall limit to the game. Even if it isn't exactly like a sports clock. Say you can plank/Camp characters down to the last 2 minutes of a match. That would be more fair to me.

As for wobbling nobody really has a good enough reason for unbanning it. All they say is it is like Puff's Rest or Fox's Shine....which is kind of a nonsense argument. As for Sheik her Grab is DI'able and escapable for most viable or semi-viable characters. IC's grab is death for any character on almost any stage with no escape.

Why is it cheap?....etc

seriously?

 

[gm jack]

It should never have been banned in the first place. It doesn't invalidate any particularly good characters, and it doesn't make the IC any better than boarder line viable. Considering all their other options from a grab, it really shouldn't change how the match up is played. It just gives them a punishment that can allow them to keep up with the better characters.

 

[Problem2]

It's a good thing you made a big bold post so people could see it.

JK, you're dumb, that's a stupid argument.

You're dumb. You're a stupid argument.

 

[hungrybox]

nooooooooooo bring back the logic before this gets closed!

I like this thread

 

[mastermoo420]

Leaves are green, money is green.Leaves are mostly made of cellulose, money is mostly made of cellulose. Leaves grow on trees, Money grows on...oh wait

Just because things are alike in some respects, does not mean they are alike in all respects.
silly arguement is silly.

That doesn't change the fact that they ARE alike in some aspects. Who's to say they're not alike in respect to the characters' metagames? Nothing's going to be EXACTLY the same as something else. It's like distance - the d(x) will not equal d(y) unless x = y. Unless the two things being compared are the same, it's not going to be the same.

They'll still share similarities, and, unless you compare EVERY aspect of the two things, you can't really make a complete judgment. And, because of that, this makes it a moot point, lol.

I wasn't really getting at anywhere here. I had some arguments, but they didn't work out too well. They make sense to me, a bit, but they wouldn't be eloquent enough to argue.

And argument*

 

[PEEF!]

people are never happy with what beats them.